Why CD failed and the key to success

[ITG]

I'll never listen to the whole thing again ever.

[Flayer]

I don't think CD got the promotion it should have gotten. It was released without much said about it.

Do you blame Axl or the label for that?

Because the label gave Axl 14 million dollars and 13 years to turn in a finished product. Then, they did tv commercials (which you only see for the biggest bands), there were ads in magazines, and ads in newspapers. What else could the label have done??? Went door-to-door to people's houses? It seems like the label did an incredible amount of work on this album and that Axl was the one who dropped the ball. Just think about it - 14 million dollars and over a decade of missed deadlines. No band has ever gotten that amount of effort before, and I doubt that any band will ever get that amount in the future.

I'm not trying to pick an argument with you. I just don't understand when people blame the label.....when in reality, they gave "more" to Axl than any label has probably ever given to an artist.

Blame can lie with both...Axl didn't do anything to create publicity, but the label, while far more generous with the money than they really should have been throughout the recording process, did botch the release and the marketing as well. They just didn't care at that point.

[ITG]

I think Randy's and Cool Ranch Dressing's version of this thread was way better. Honestly the OP's opening statements are so recalcitrant I wonder if he's switched teams and is intentionally trolling full throttle.

[OmarBradley]

I don't understand why this thread is still going on. You people ( ) make the same threads every week and arrive at the same conclusions every time.

[Chewbacca]

I don't understand why this thread is still going on. You people ( ) make the same threads every week and arrive at the same conclusions every time.

Welcome to the jungle.

[saber_]

Sounds about right. The most expensive and bloated album in history ends up at one of the cheapest stores in the country. The truth is the truth hurts.

America is but one country. I encourage you to check the numbers worldwide. And yes, I acknowledge that Chinese Democracy moved half a million copies, give or take, in the U.S. I know I know, that's a fall from grace for a band that hails from the U.S. But across the globe, Chinese Democracy put up some okay numbers. #1 peak chart position in 8 countries. #2 peak chart position in 3 countries. #3 peak chart position in 8 countries. In the top 10 in 8 other countries.

The truth may hurt in America, but everywhere else, GnR is still big.

[ARBeast]

I don't understand why this thread is still going on. You people ( ) make the same threads every week and arrive at the same conclusions every time.

There will be a similar thread to this one created again in about a week. But then again, if more leaks happen, that could take the conversation to a new topic.

[D..]

This is the follow-up to the previous thread "Why CD failed and the key to success", which had a pretty good reception on the forum. I thought it deserved a sequel, though it wasn't planned with such a complicated title but oh well...

Anyway, here is the long awaited sequel with all new content and all new true insights on the world, the meaning of life, time, music, and of course, Chinese Democracy.

Chinese Democracy is the best record from the 2000's, fact established in the previous episode. Why did it fail when U2's terrible album "No line on the horizon" was an undisputed success?

Again, let's go back hundreds years ago, with Chopin and Schubert. Note that I didn't mention Mozart who had an incredible success for his time (see the movie "Amadeus", objectively one the best movies ever, something opposite to a very bad

flick like "The Avengers").

Chopin is now hailed as one of the best composers to have walked the Earth. But during his life, except from the elites who had access to his music and understood what he did, the average farmer from Europe couldn't get his music. He prefered

to listen to national anthems and accessible cheap music from his village.

What I mean here, as some people where offended I dared compare Chopin to GN'R, is that art cannot be judged by uneducated people. They are mostly ignorants. Do I care about the opinion about a farmer from Texas? No. I don't care about him.
Let the farmer live his life with his farmer girl and let them infant a new breed of uneducated people who will cultivate tobacco.

True Art, and I'd like to stress the capital "A" on "Art", can only be appreciated by educated people. But it's not the only problem.

Time is very important. Some creations don't pass the test of time. We could take the movie "Robocop 3" for example. Back when you were kids, you enjoyed "Robocop 3", because Robocop had a jetpack. But now that you've grown up, all you

can see is a flying Robocop fighting retarded Cyborg Ninjas, which you understand was only there as a meaning to sell you action figures back when you were a kid. Same applies to "Batman Forever", "Batman & Robin", once loved by your candid

soul, and now all you can see is garbage.
But let's take a more serious example. Let's take the movie, "Avatar". Back when it was released in 2009, everyone loved it, called it a revolution, saying how the 3D was the new way to make films and so on. Flash-forward to 2013, almost everyone to say

that "Avatar" is nothing more than Pocahontas in Space with ugly design, cheesy storyline and the 3D movies ruined our wallets and eyes. We don't more anymore 3D, we want old fashion cinema. And yet everyone used to love it. But it didn't pass the test

of time. How could such a thing happen? Well "Avatar" was garbage but the hype blinded our eyes. And James Cameron uptil then only directed awesome movies, so our judgment was pretty fucked up.

Now "Chinese Democracy" got the exact reverse reception from "Avatar". Most people were saying it was going to bomb, that Axl was a douchebag, that Slash wasn't in the band and that the music would be pointless without him. And when it finally was

released, most people were saying it's garbage. They were blinded by the negative hype surrounding the album. But with the years, more and more people tend to say "oh it's not that bad", "it's pretty good", "it's up to par with the Illusions, but maybe not Appetite".
I'm pretty sure that in 10 years from now, a lot more people will see how amazing it is. It will definitely pass the test of time, because it's filled with incredible qualities.

On the meaning of life: we aren't here for long. Most people are overweight in America and they're going to live even less longer. Now a good idea would be for all these american overweight people to run on a treadmill, listening to Chinese Democracy.
Because this record will help you passing the test of the treadmill. This is the kind of great music that gives you the power to go beyond your limits and lose weight. Such a miracle would never happen with U2's "No line in the horizon" which will definitely

not resolve your questions about the meaning of life.

If this topic is a new success, believe you me, I will make Part III (title to be determined). Thank you all for the support and long live Chinese Democracy.

[D..]

Took longer than expected, but here is the sequel to this thread: http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/204371-why-cd-failed-and-the-key-to-success-part-ii-time/

[Jakey Styley]

I hate this thread subject.

[FuddMckagan]

Yeah this really didn't need another thread.

[Nosaj Thing]

Yeah this really didn't need another thread.

Basically because the first one was stupid as fuck. I didn't even bother to read the first sentence.

[Nosaj Thing]

I'll never listen to the whole thing again ever.

It took me weeks to finish the record when it came out. It was reaaaaaaaaally boring. It was easier for me to 'listen to' the CD songs when Axl was on tour and I saw him in 2010.

[wasted]

Time is money.

I think that's the trap CD got into. The studio invested/gambled/threw away 4 mil in 1994-6 for a new GNR record off the back of old Guns records making them 100s of millions of dollars.

That seems alright, but then in around 1999 they decided "we think Axl can do more commercial stuff, this industrial shit isn't really GNR/Maybe Slash will come back/why make 40 mil when we could make 400 mil?"

So they got Roy Baker in of Queen fame to get Axl up in it. Sounds like a great idea. To the tune of 10 million dollars.

They had now spent 14 mil approx.

But right about then, it dawned on them that actually a new GNR record won't sell 30 million copies even with a hit single that we're not even sure we have.

It would sell 4 million say in 2002. That's still 40 mil for the label but it's not such a hot ticket anymore. Plus they are 14 mil in the hole. Who wants a piece of this band now? Not so many of you bad boys as before. Why don't we do a reunion instead?

2004 - Let's just cut our losses take the 10 mil profits and can Axl til he agrees to a reunion. Or we release a GH.

As cd sales dropped CD getting released became less and less likely. But the money they spent on it was 90s money. Do you think'll any band would get 14 mil these days, no way jose. 14 dollars maybe and a hand written letter from label tea lady because all the electric in they building went out.

CD's perceived failure is really only a reflection of the industry's failure. If you throw a 14 mil production cost anchor round most records they sink like the titanic too. They go down like Lynsay Lohan on a friday night.

But fate made time it's bitch and Best Buy saved/ruined everyone's life.

(all dates, numbers are rough estimates - it's just a theory)

Edited December 11, 2013 by wasted

[estrangedtwat]

This is the follow-up to the previous thread "Why CD failed and the key to success", which had a pretty good reception on the forum. I thought it deserved a sequel

Chinese Democracy is the best record from the 2000's, fact established in the previous episode.

Sooooo fucking wrong on both points.

[TombRaider]

I wouldn't call this thread stupid. It's just a thread defending CD, which is perfectly acceptable, if you like the album.

[ITG]

round II

[Chunder Monkey]

I think it's an interesting topic but I think D is over analysing.

To me it comes down to:

1. Original GNR was a once-in-a-generation "perfect storm" of several people with unusual creative ability to create a whole that is superior to the sum of it's parts. One part of that equation is W. Axl Rose - who is a musical genius I think - but in terms of recreating that whole - he is simply one part.

2. Axl seems to have always had hyper analysis and a shit load of talent and a lot of emotion. However, the very things that make him powerful also operate to be his undoing. Think about how upset he got over 3 or 4 bad media articles in the Get in the Ring era when your options were like mags or word of mouth - and imagine the unending toll forums, youtube and the rest of the internet would have on a person who gets upset by that kind of thing. Look at the perfectionism he showed over the crafting of november rain - then put him in a scenario where his cunning and success gave him no one to answer to or to be held accountable to - his whole life to obsess over details and tens of millions of dollars to channel into the cause. All the disfunction in modern GNR - which includes both the falling appart of the old band, the creative roadblock the new band faces, and the poor handling of CD as an album comes down to that - Axl is a musical genius - but when he has CEO powers the very skills that make him great also undermine him.

In summary I think Slash was onto something when he said it was a good album, the perfect axl album. The album reflects what it is - a further glimpse into the mind of Axl - except this time without the complications of him having to have equal partners.

I think it's a very strong record, but I also think it's undeniably a different beast to traditional GNR which was it's own monster. I love them both,

[Roush]

The record failed due to a multitude of reasons. Big deal, dust yourself off.

[TombRaider]

1. Original GNR was a once-in-a-generation "perfect storm" of several people with unusual creative ability to create a whole that is superior to the sum of it's parts. One part of that equation is W. Axl Rose - who is a musical genius I think - but in terms of recreating that whole - he is simply one part.

This man speaks the truth.

[Padme]

Why are we talking about movies? Anyway I didn´t give a flying fuck about Avatar because I hate James Cameron since he made that cheesy, boring and moronic soap opera movie called Titanic.

I can say that CD was also big disappointment to me as Titanic was. But I still have faith in Axl. I will never give up on him

[TombRaider]

Why are we talking about movies? Anyway I didn´t give a flying fuck about Avatar because I hate James Cameron since he made that cheesy, boring and moronic soap opera movie called Titanic.

I can say that CD was also big disappointment to me as Titanic was. But I still have faith in Axl. I will never give up on him

Titanic boring? LOL x 100

[Padme]

Why are we talking about movies? Anyway I didn´t give a flying fuck about Avatar because I hate James Cameron since he made that cheesy, boring and moronic soap opera movie called Titanic.

I can say that CD was also big disappointment to me as Titanic was. But I still have faith in Axl. I will never give up on him

Titanic boring? LOL x 100

Yes, I was falling sleep for most of it. Nothing was exciting until they hit the iceberg. Way too fuckin´ long and silly stuff until that point.

[TombRaider]

Long: well, I'm sorry you have such a hard time concentranting for more than 60 minutes. I guess you´ve missed out on the Godfather trilogy and Schindler´s list and Gone with the Wind, to name a few, on account of those movies being long.

Silly: why? because of the love story? Oh… God forbid people fall in love and/or someone makes a movie about a somewhat cheesy, albeit not that annoying, love story

[magisme]

Come on now. Where my thread merge at?

Edit: Thank you.

Edited December 11, 2013 by magisme