If the situation were reversed...

[iftheworld]

Its Impossible for the situation to be reversed unless you're thinking that one of the other employees thought up GNR which isn't even possible given that lack of creativity and bigger picture amongst them.

Edited December 19, 2013 by iftheworld

[magisme]

Its Impossible for the situation to be reversed unless you're thinking that one of the other employees thought up GNR which isn't even possible given that lack of creativity and bigger picture amongst them.

What exactly could they not have come up with? The name? What else? Cuz they were pretty instrumental regarding the rest.

[niceguy]

Its Impossible for the situation to be reversed unless you're thinking that one of the other employees thought up GNR which isn't even possible given that lack of creativity and bigger picture amongst them.

True, Axl wrote and performed every note on every GNR song ever, and he mixed and produced and engineered all the albums too, all by himself.

[wasted]

To me Contradband showed what Slash and Duff can do, it's kind of similar to the rockers on UYI with a Don't Cry type ballad. Overall all it's more punk rock n roll. Izzy would slow them down into mid tempo stuff like DNB and 14 Years and Axl obviously likes epics. Axl does on CD seems to recognize the diversity that GNR should do after UYI. Slash always seems to be doing a debut album, Axl seems to follow the arc of getting more and more serious.

[Bobbo]

I don't know. I think it's pretty interesting that Contraband was the most popular and relevant post '96 Gunner's record.

I'm sure there'd be tons of skepticism as to whether or not they could pull it off. Probably more doubters than supporters. Understandably so.

But who knows, crazier things have happened. Back then, they were still relevant enough where the name could have attracted a real first rate singer. If they had Izzy on board too, to at least write and record with them, and just have Gilby to tour, it'd be interesting to see what could happen. I mean, Izzy did come back in '94 or '95. I'd say it'd be a solid 50/50 shot they could have made it.

I'd personally would support the use of the name in this case as it would be, with Izzy's involvement, 3 out of 5 people who established the band, 3 out of the 4 who were, honestly, the true backbones of the band, and two members who have already established their presence in the band (Matt and Dizzy).

Couldn't be much worse than what we've got now.

[rockerman]

Let's say the name situation were reversed, and Velvet Revolver (Contraband, Libertad) had been GNR, and Chinese Democracy had been Axl solo. What would the public perception of Axl be? How about GNR?

That situation was similar with Van Halen...after the massivley popular over the top success of 1984...Dave went solo.. so they carried on with Hagar and equaled their success or even surpassed it. Purists screamed Name Van Halen Van Hagar etc... Dave enjoyed one really successful solo album and then a few of ..i dont know I never listened to them.

Dave recuited Steve Vai and Billy Sheehan for his solo album..two very well and known successful musicians and Eat em and Smile worked for Dave...and it had some great fun stuff on it similar to early Van HAlen.... Van Halen went on to sound like the backing band to Sammy Hagar and changed music genres..and enjoyed massive success. Was it the name or was it the music? Jury is still out.

David Lee Roth devolved into the publics eye as a has been, used up clown and remained that way for much of the 90's and 2000's.

None the less.. had the core band remained GNR without Axl it would have suffered the same fate that Axls GNR is... that band for better or for worse in the eyes of history and in the minds and heart of thes public perception will largely and always be- the original 5 club rats blasting off of the SunSet Strip.

The success of AFD and the UYI follow up even without Adler and later Izzy still is cemented in history and the minds of the masses as the magic formula. Axl has one of two choices STEP IT UP or STEP AWAY. A rose by anyother name is still a rose... well GNR by any other name is still not GNR... So VR was not even close...nor could any other singer take GNR where they had already been. The charm and charisma of GNR 86-93 was in those 5 and their climb to the top. It was part of the whole. Anything less is just desperation holding onto the hope of possibility.

Speaking of history.. its apparent that niether side of this argument has yet to equal or better their collective previous efforts.

Had Axl kept up the ferocious intensity and the manic ability to push on through like he had in the early days with a new sound , new vision , new band & backed up by releasing equal or better music to the masses none of this pssing contest would matter. Allowing GNR to get rust on its legacy makes it all the more difficult to take him or his grand vision seriously as a contender to the current and more of a reminder of what was and will never be again.

OZZY got booted from Sabbath and then formed a band and released hit after hit unitl his place in Black Sabbath is nothing more or less than a foot note to his other successes he had in his career. The difference in the 80's with Ozzy was he kept it coming and he surrounded himself with talent who deliveried.. and Ozzy was the captain of his destiny. Axl could have should have ought to have etc.. watched on and learned... people have only so much good will and patience.

[Bobbo]

Let's say the name situation were reversed, and Velvet Revolver (Contraband, Libertad) had been GNR, and Chinese Democracy had been Axl solo. What would the public perception of Axl be? How about GNR?

That situation was similar with Van Halen...after the massivley popular over the top success of 1984...Dave went solo.. so they carried on with Hagar and equaled their success or even surpassed it. Purists screamed Name Van Halen Van Hagar etc... Dave enjoyed one really successful solo album and then a few of ..i dont know I never listened to them.

Dave recuited Steve Vai and Billy Sheehan for his solo album..two very well and known successful musicians and Eat em and Smile worked for Dave...and it had some great fun stuff on it similar to early Van HAlen.... Van Halen went on to sound like the backing band to Sammy Hagar and changed music genres..and enjoyed massive success. Was it the name or was it the music? Jury is still out.

David Lee Roth devolved into the publics eye as a has been, used up clown and remained that way for much of the 90's and 2000's.

None the less.. had the core band remained GNR without Axl it would have suffered the same fate that Axls GNR is... that band for better or for worse in the eyes of history and in the minds and heart of thes public perception will largely and always be- the original 5 club rats blasting off of the SunSet Strip.

The success of AFD and the UYI follow up even without Adler and later Izzy still is cemented in history and the minds of the masses as the magic formula. Axl has one of two choices STEP IT UP or STEP AWAY. A rose by anyother name is still a rose... well GNR by any other name is still not GNR... So VR was not even close...nor could any other singer take GNR where they had already been. The charm and charisma of GNR 86-93 was in those 5 and their climb to the top. It was part of the whole. Anything less is just desperation holding onto the hope of possibility.

Speaking of history.. its apparent that niether side of this argument has yet to equal or better their collective previous efforts.

Had Axl kept up the ferocious intensity and the manic ability to push on through like he had in the early days with a new sound , new vision , new band & backed up by releasing equal or better music to the masses none of this pssing contest would matter. Allowing GNR to get rust on its legacy makes it all the more difficult to take him or his grand vision seriously as a contender to the current and more of a reminder of what was and will never be again.

OZZY got booted from Sabbath and then formed a band and released hit after hit unitl his place in Black Sabbath is nothing more or less than a foot note to his other successes he had in his career. The difference in the 80's with Ozzy was he kept it coming and he surrounded himself with talent who deliveried.. and Ozzy was the captain of his destiny. Axl could have should have ought to have etc.. watched on and learned... people have only so much good will and patience.

Holy fuck. My jaw dropped. Excellent post.

[IncitingChaos]

A little off topic, but what if Guns n Roses released their album the same year Velvet Revolver did? And both were up for a Grammy? That would have been a great show!

[wasted]

CD being released same time as Contraband would have meant it sold about the same. Label didn't think it was ready in 2000, according to Del Axl released it when it was ready, so I don't know. 2004 seems pivotal.

I think most bands have the glory days and live off that the rest of the time. Even the Stones ended up touring with a different line up and releasing what most think of as not their best records.

I get the impression the GNR guys didn't think of it in those rock history terms. They just seemed to burn out. Izzy said Stones should have quit when they were cool. Slash seemed to understand his position but couldn't take working with Axl. Duff seems very grounded.

I guess at a time when they were pretty weak and beaten down, Axl was upping the ante and being difficult. Exhausted and frustrated they had to let it go.

They just didn't or couldn't go Zeppelin. But they could have done like an AC/DC Stones type career with Guns.

Edited December 20, 2013 by wasted

[DieselDaisy]

Neither Contraband or Chinese Democracy are particularly good records though.

[IncitingChaos]

One had a single that received a Grammy, I just wondered if they were released at the same time if they would have both been nominated for ratings...maybe nobody would have cared but oh well just a thought

[wasted]

I think the industry has a vendetta against Axl. So probably no nominations or even money for a video.

[Mr. Dude]

I think the industry has a vendetta against Axl. So probably no nominations or even money for a video.

I think its awesome that Axl has such a greedy, corrupt, banal industry pissed at him. Makes me proud to be a fan.

[rockerman]

at the core of this discussion is the what ifs?

GNR as it was - was the "it"band of the day while they were on their run.. the demand for them was huge from so many sectors of the industry. Both Axl and Slash were called on to guest on other peoples albums, guested and played on other artists shows...were regulars at the industry awards shows etc... When you consider all the iconic older established acts like Aerosmith, Kiss, Elton John, Tom Petty, Don Henely, Bruce Springsteen .Michael Jackson The Rolling Stones doing a number with Axl and Izzy= all calling them out ...or joing them on stage..that was like the torch being passed to a whole new generation. Hardly any other Sunset Strip refugees were called on to do that on the merits and stregnths of their debute album . Crue, Ratt, Poison LA Guns and the lot of them And it was awesome to see that kind of exposure and recognition ..it added to the thrill of the whole complete growing living entity of GNR. Not only was the image there of badasses living the dream but aside from the personality of the band- the music stood alone and seperate and spoke for itself. At the time it was awesome to feel and experience the energy and the hoopla that the band was generating. When so many people were waiting to see what that band coud do and what they were doing.. people that otherwise hated hard rock and openly mocked the Hollywood image and sounds..but loved GNR... that was a kind of magic.

It will be interesting to find out( if we ever in fact ever do ) as to why Axl didnt flaunt his new band every where and anyplace Why he chose to take this ass backwards approach to rekindling the fire and fury of GNR. Why he didnt have all members out there in the public building up a personality and a curiosity. Consider how it might have been different if in 2000 Axl was out there everywhere selling us the sizzle on his new group and generating excitement for what he was up to? Consider what it might have been if he played some of the new music on SNL or the Late night talk shows? What it would have done for PR sake to clear the air and talk about what who when and how. What was exciting and new to him and what he was all about ...why he chose to recruit and what they brought to the scene..how the music fit the times and the overall concept of what he was concieving etc..

Even the great Robert Plant who could ride in on his merits alone as Led Zepplins singer gets out there and pounds the circut to announce and promote his solo efforts and celebrates his backup muscians and contributors. you can hardly get a ticket to a Robert Plant show. While it might not be the big splash it does keep the flame alive and the interest going

. For me, looking back...I see it as timid.. I see it like a fella who has a new girlfriend and is embarassed to take her to the big party and show her off. Like hes half hearted in his commitment to be part of the relationship.

[Crash Diet]

People would still be complaining. They would say that the band needs Axl.

this

but i think maybe Axl would be more happier (despite he wouldn't got THAT much money) and put out more records

[volcano62]

Neither Contraband or Chinese Democracy are particularly good records though.

Strange...I think both are better than anything that has come out since

[Apollo]

Let's say the name situation were reversed, and Velvet Revolver (Contraband, Libertad) had been GNR, and Chinese Democracy had been Axl solo. What would the public perception of Axl be? How about GNR?

Axl would not have been held to as high of a standard as he was. Keeping the GnR named helped him out tremendously in terms of earning money, but the name also carried a standard to it - one that Axl hasn't been able to meet.

Like people have mentioned, AC/DC and Van Halen were more successful with their new singers than their old ones. So if GnR had replaced Axl with a quality singer, and they had put out quality albums every 3 years..............and if Axl had just put out one album in the last 15 years.............

Slash/Duff proved they could be more successful than Axl/GnR in a band setting. So I see no reason that they wouldn't have done the same thing if they'd kept GnR alive with another singer.

But like I've said a million times. I just wish Axl was more interested in sharing his music with his millions of fans.

[IncitingChaos]

I agree with the last part of what Rockerman said. Axl has seemed half hearted about the new lineup. It sucks that he played the role of a wounded dog instead of fighting back against the negative press. It's the press he seemed scared of, like no matter what he did it would be wrong.

I guess we would all react different to the situation Axl was in. He just seems like he takes a lot personally. He's still an awesome rock star though and I'll support him until his last concert, but I would have loved if his return would have been in your face and a more positive display of the new band. Maybe Axl wishes things had been different too, but he just seemed hurt at the time he was suppose to return as the top rock star in the world.

I can see why he was timid, but wish he wouldn't have been. It could have been a glorious return for Guns n Roses, I never felt like it was doomed from the start, just an uphill battle.

[Mr. Dude]

at the core of this discussion is the what ifs?

GNR as it was - was the "it"band of the day while they were on their run.. the demand for them was huge from so many sectors of the industry. Both Axl and Slash were called on to guest on other peoples albums, guested and played on other artists shows...were regulars at the industry awards shows etc... When you consider all the iconic older established acts like Aerosmith, Kiss, Elton John, Tom Petty, Don Henely, Bruce Springsteen .Michael Jackson The Rolling Stones doing a number with Axl and Izzy= all calling them out ...or joing them on stage..that was like the torch being passed to a whole new generation. Hardly any other Sunset Strip refugees were called on to do that on the merits and stregnths of their debute album . Crue, Ratt, Poison LA Guns and the lot of them And it was awesome to see that kind of exposure and recognition ..it added to the thrill of the whole complete growing living entity of GNR. Not only was the image there of badasses living the dream but aside from the personality of the band- the music stood alone and seperate and spoke for itself. At the time it was awesome to feel and experience the energy and the hoopla that the band was generating. When so many people were waiting to see what that band coud do and what they were doing.. people that otherwise hated hard rock and openly mocked the Hollywood image and sounds..but loved GNR... that was a kind of magic.

It will be interesting to find out( if we ever in fact ever do ) as to why Axl didnt flaunt his new band every where and anyplace Why he chose to take this ass backwards approach to rekindling the fire and fury of GNR. Why he didnt have all members out there in the public building up a personality and a curiosity. Consider how it might have been different if in 2000 Axl was out there everywhere selling us the sizzle on his new group and generating excitement for what he was up to? Consider what it might have been if he played some of the new music on SNL or the Late night talk shows? What it would have done for PR sake to clear the air and talk about what who when and how. What was exciting and new to him and what he was all about ...why he chose to recruit and what they brought to the scene..how the music fit the times and the overall concept of what he was concieving etc..

Even the great Robert Plant who could ride in on his merits alone as Led Zepplins singer gets out there and pounds the circut to announce and promote his solo efforts and celebrates his backup muscians and contributors. you can hardly get a ticket to a Robert Plant show. While it might not be the big splash it does keep the flame alive and the interest going

. For me, looking back...I see it as timid.. I see it like a fella who has a new girlfriend and is embarassed to take her to the big party and show her off. Like hes half hearted in his commitment to be part of the relationship.

I don't see it as timid at all. I see it as not playing the game. Doing it on his own terms. I don't want Axl out there doing interviews all the time, looking for cheap publicity. That's part of why I respect him- that he doesn't really do press, doesn't show for the RRHOF, doesn't take the easy road, there's a certain integrity to it... in my estimation.

[Apollo]

at the core of this discussion is the what ifs?

GNR as it was - was the "it"band of the day while they were on their run.. the demand for them was huge from so many sectors of the industry. Both Axl and Slash were called on to guest on other peoples albums, guested and played on other artists shows...were regulars at the industry awards shows etc... When you consider all the iconic older established acts like Aerosmith, Kiss, Elton John, Tom Petty, Don Henely, Bruce Springsteen .Michael Jackson The Rolling Stones doing a number with Axl and Izzy= all calling them out ...or joing them on stage..that was like the torch being passed to a whole new generation. Hardly any other Sunset Strip refugees were called on to do that on the merits and stregnths of their debute album . Crue, Ratt, Poison LA Guns and the lot of them And it was awesome to see that kind of exposure and recognition ..it added to the thrill of the whole complete growing living entity of GNR. Not only was the image there of badasses living the dream but aside from the personality of the band- the music stood alone and seperate and spoke for itself. At the time it was awesome to feel and experience the energy and the hoopla that the band was generating. When so many people were waiting to see what that band coud do and what they were doing.. people that otherwise hated hard rock and openly mocked the Hollywood image and sounds..but loved GNR... that was a kind of magic.

It will be interesting to find out( if we ever in fact ever do ) as to why Axl didnt flaunt his new band every where and anyplace Why he chose to take this ass backwards approach to rekindling the fire and fury of GNR. Why he didnt have all members out there in the public building up a personality and a curiosity. Consider how it might have been different if in 2000 Axl was out there everywhere selling us the sizzle on his new group and generating excitement for what he was up to? Consider what it might have been if he played some of the new music on SNL or the Late night talk shows? What it would have done for PR sake to clear the air and talk about what who when and how. What was exciting and new to him and what he was all about ...why he chose to recruit and what they brought to the scene..how the music fit the times and the overall concept of what he was concieving etc..

Even the great Robert Plant who could ride in on his merits alone as Led Zepplins singer gets out there and pounds the circut to announce and promote his solo efforts and celebrates his backup muscians and contributors. you can hardly get a ticket to a Robert Plant show. While it might not be the big splash it does keep the flame alive and the interest going

. For me, looking back...I see it as timid.. I see it like a fella who has a new girlfriend and is embarassed to take her to the big party and show her off. Like hes half hearted in his commitment to be part of the relationship.

I don't see it as timid at all. I see it as not playing the game. Doing it on his own terms. I don't want Axl out there doing interviews all the time, looking for cheap publicity. That's part of why I respect him- that he doesn't really do press, doesn't show for the RRHOF, doesn't take the easy road, there's a certain integrity to it... in my estimation.

Even though that means you - as a die-hard fan - only got one album of material from your favorite singer during that entire time? And Axl not doing interviews or playing high-profile tv gigs might mean that he isn't "playing the game" but it also means less opportunities that YOU - the fan - get to see Axl perform live. So Axl is the integrity winner, but the fans are the losers.

I'd rather Axl had no "integrity" (your word) and had released five albums since the old band's breakup, and that he'd done numerous tv and print interviews, and he'd played all the awards shows. I'm a fan of Axl's music and that's what I respect about him - not his "integrity" or lack of desire to play the "game."

[IncitingChaos]

@mr.dude I'd like to think Axl took the road less traveled here too, but at the same time I feel like he wouldn't mind doing interviews, and being a more public figure if he knew he wasn't going to take a lot of crap.

It just seems Axl made a lot of enemies along the way and at times it has prevented him from doing the things he wants to do in the music business. He just doesn't seem to be on good terms with the industry. However that's just a guess on my part. He might have done it his way. I'd like to think he did, but something tells me it wasn't by choice.

[rockerman]

at the core of this discussion is the what ifs?

GNR as it was - was the "it"band of the day while they were on their run.. the demand for them was huge from so many sectors of the industry. Both Axl and Slash were called on to guest on other peoples albums, guested and played on other artists shows...were regulars at the industry awards shows etc... When you consider all the iconic older established acts like Aerosmith, Kiss, Elton John, Tom Petty, Don Henely, Bruce Springsteen .Michael Jackson The Rolling Stones doing a number with Axl and Izzy= all calling them out ...or joing them on stage..that was like the torch being passed to a whole new generation. Hardly any other Sunset Strip refugees were called on to do that on the merits and stregnths of their debute album . Crue, Ratt, Poison LA Guns and the lot of them And it was awesome to see that kind of exposure and recognition ..it added to the thrill of the whole complete growing living entity of GNR. Not only was the image there of badasses living the dream but aside from the personality of the band- the music stood alone and seperate and spoke for itself. At the time it was awesome to feel and experience the energy and the hoopla that the band was generating. When so many people were waiting to see what that band coud do and what they were doing.. people that otherwise hated hard rock and openly mocked the Hollywood image and sounds..but loved GNR... that was a kind of magic.

It will be interesting to find out( if we ever in fact ever do ) as to why Axl didnt flaunt his new band every where and anyplace Why he chose to take this ass backwards approach to rekindling the fire and fury of GNR. Why he didnt have all members out there in the public building up a personality and a curiosity. Consider how it might have been different if in 2000 Axl was out there everywhere selling us the sizzle on his new group and generating excitement for what he was up to? Consider what it might have been if he played some of the new music on SNL or the Late night talk shows? What it would have done for PR sake to clear the air and talk about what who when and how. What was exciting and new to him and what he was all about ...why he chose to recruit and what they brought to the scene..how the music fit the times and the overall concept of what he was concieving etc..

Even the great Robert Plant who could ride in on his merits alone as Led Zepplins singer gets out there and pounds the circut to announce and promote his solo efforts and celebrates his backup muscians and contributors. you can hardly get a ticket to a Robert Plant show. While it might not be the big splash it does keep the flame alive and the interest going

. For me, looking back...I see it as timid.. I see it like a fella who has a new girlfriend and is embarassed to take her to the big party and show her off. Like hes half hearted in his commitment to be part of the relationship.

I don't see it as timid at all. I see it as not playing the game. Doing it on his own terms. I don't want Axl out there doing interviews all the time, looking for cheap publicity. That's part of why I respect him- that he doesn't really do press, doesn't show for the RRHOF, doesn't take the easy road, there's a certain integrity to it... in my estimation.

Even though that means you - as a die-hard fan - only got one album of material from your favorite singer during that entire time? And Axl not doing interviews or playing high-profile tv gigs might mean that he isn't "playing the game" but it also means less opportunities that YOU - the fan - get to see Axl perform live. So Axl is the integrity winner, but the fans are the losers.

I'd rather Axl had no "integrity" (your word) and had released five albums since the old band's breakup, and that he'd done numerous tv and print interviews, and he'd played all the awards shows. I'm a fan of Axl's music and that's what I respect about him - not his "integrity" or lack of desire to play the "game."

Theres a huge difference between a Miley Cyrus attention whore and "playing the game" vs standing by your product and your persona and utilizing the means and methods out there that are best going to get all eyes on the product...

Imagine if this little hypothetical conversation took place in 2000 between Jay Leno or Dave Letterman:

AXL: Hey hey people Ive been gone..I know..I know You missed me . We had a few changes take place in the band and I took a few years off to get this project going. Man its amazing and wait till you hear what Buckethead is doing on it... it will blow you away! ..Hey do you have time to play a clip of it? ......audience cheers.. Axl grins.. its been awesome to hear some of the finished products.. I think it expresses the sentiment I was hoping to achieve. God it was fun getting back into the studio and just seeing and learning how to work with the new technology .( axls excited...the audiece is excited...tv viewers are excited)

We have some big plans ahead.. HOB gigs at the New Years..been invited to play Rock In Rio again so that will be something we have to get done.. looking for a tour of the United States. Were planning on debuting some of the new material on TV...in fact .. Hey Dave I have an Idea... why dont we just play you a new song right here and now? Audience erupts.. Band launches into new song.....NEW ERA explodes. Next day a single is played on the radios throughout the US...word gets out in press .. etc....momentum builds...people start to give a shit again and regard his work as wow.. cool .. thats kind of neat .. interesting .. vs.. This is 15 years and 15 million dollars worth of effort?

VS-

"Artistic INTEGRITY"

"who knows maybe the album will just show up one day on the shelves" - Merck

No introduction of the band..

Silence rumours and weeds grow up around camp GNR... grandbabys are born to the original fan base...

Assuming that GNR fans will automatically allow you to pick up where you left off

Biching and snipping about your band mate"former friends" that abandoned you or tried to force you to do something you didnt.... IE airing the dirty laundry out

letting another half decade come and go without any "artistic integrity" manifesting itself.

[Mr. Dude]

at the core of this discussion is the what ifs?

GNR as it was - was the "it"band of the day while they were on their run.. the demand for them was huge from so many sectors of the industry. Both Axl and Slash were called on to guest on other peoples albums, guested and played on other artists shows...were regulars at the industry awards shows etc... When you consider all the iconic older established acts like Aerosmith, Kiss, Elton John, Tom Petty, Don Henely, Bruce Springsteen .Michael Jackson The Rolling Stones doing a number with Axl and Izzy= all calling them out ...or joing them on stage..that was like the torch being passed to a whole new generation. Hardly any other Sunset Strip refugees were called on to do that on the merits and stregnths of their debute album . Crue, Ratt, Poison LA Guns and the lot of them And it was awesome to see that kind of exposure and recognition ..it added to the thrill of the whole complete growing living entity of GNR. Not only was the image there of badasses living the dream but aside from the personality of the band- the music stood alone and seperate and spoke for itself. At the time it was awesome to feel and experience the energy and the hoopla that the band was generating. When so many people were waiting to see what that band coud do and what they were doing.. people that otherwise hated hard rock and openly mocked the Hollywood image and sounds..but loved GNR... that was a kind of magic.

It will be interesting to find out( if we ever in fact ever do ) as to why Axl didnt flaunt his new band every where and anyplace Why he chose to take this ass backwards approach to rekindling the fire and fury of GNR. Why he didnt have all members out there in the public building up a personality and a curiosity. Consider how it might have been different if in 2000 Axl was out there everywhere selling us the sizzle on his new group and generating excitement for what he was up to? Consider what it might have been if he played some of the new music on SNL or the Late night talk shows? What it would have done for PR sake to clear the air and talk about what who when and how. What was exciting and new to him and what he was all about ...why he chose to recruit and what they brought to the scene..how the music fit the times and the overall concept of what he was concieving etc..

Even the great Robert Plant who could ride in on his merits alone as Led Zepplins singer gets out there and pounds the circut to announce and promote his solo efforts and celebrates his backup muscians and contributors. you can hardly get a ticket to a Robert Plant show. While it might not be the big splash it does keep the flame alive and the interest going

. For me, looking back...I see it as timid.. I see it like a fella who has a new girlfriend and is embarassed to take her to the big party and show her off. Like hes half hearted in his commitment to be part of the relationship.

I don't see it as timid at all. I see it as not playing the game. Doing it on his own terms. I don't want Axl out there doing interviews all the time, looking for cheap publicity. That's part of why I respect him- that he doesn't really do press, doesn't show for the RRHOF, doesn't take the easy road, there's a certain integrity to it... in my estimation.

Even though that means you - as a die-hard fan - only got one album of material from your favorite singer during that entire time? And Axl not doing interviews or playing high-profile tv gigs might mean that he isn't "playing the game" but it also means less opportunities that YOU - the fan - get to see Axl perform live. So Axl is the integrity winner, but the fans are the losers.

I'd rather Axl had no "integrity" (your word) and had released five albums since the old band's breakup, and that he'd done numerous tv and print interviews, and he'd played all the awards shows. I'm a fan of Axl's music and that's what I respect about him - not his "integrity" or lack of desire to play the "game."

Theres a huge difference between a Miley Cyrus attention whore and "playing the game" vs standing by your product and your persona and utilizing the means and methods out there that are best going to get all eyes on the product...

Imagine if this little hypothetical conversation took place in 2000 between Jay Leno or Dave Letterman:

AXL: Hey hey people Ive been gone..I know..I know You missed me . We had a few changes take place in the band and I took a few years off to get this project going. Man its amazing and wait till you hear what Buckethead is doing on it... it will blow you away! ..Hey do you have time to play a clip of it? ......audience cheers.. Axl grins.. its been awesome to hear some of the finished products.. I think it expresses the sentiment I was hoping to achieve. God it was fun getting back into the studio and just seeing and learning how to work with the new technology .( axls excited...the audiece is excited...tv viewers are excited)

We have some big plans ahead.. HOB gigs at the New Years..been invited to play Rock In Rio again so that will be something we have to get done.. looking for a tour of the United States. Were planning on debuting some of the new material on TV...in fact .. Hey Dave I have an Idea... why dont we just play you a new song right here and now? Audience erupts.. Band launches into new song.....NEW ERA explodes. Next day a single is played on the radios throughout the US...word gets out in press .. etc....momentum builds...people start to give a shit again and regard his work as wow.. cool .. thats kind of neat .. interesting .. vs.. This is 15 years and 15 million dollars worth of effort?

VS-

"Artistic INTEGRITY"

"who knows maybe the album will just show up one day on the shelves" - Merck

No introduction of the band..

Silence rumours and weeds grow up around camp GNR... grandbabys are born to the original fan base...

Assuming that GNR fans will automatically allow you to pick up where you left off

Biching and snipping about your band mate"former friends" that abandoned you or tried to force you to do something you didnt.... IE airing the dirty laundry out

letting another half decade come and go without any "artistic integrity" manifesting itself.

That's just not Axl though. I understand your point and respect your opinion. And yeah, I'd like to hear more material- but not at the coset of authenticity. In that case I'd take one album a handful of songs over several albums of disingenuous material. I just read a lot of these comments that Axl should do all this press and promotion, but thats one of the things that has drawn me to him, that drew me to bands like Pearl Jam and others early on- that they didn't do things like that. Some (maybe most) artists seem more concerned with the promotion than with the actual material... and generally speaking they seem to be more successful commercially, but for me the self-promotion, self-commodity really detracts from the music. At a certain point the songs become product rather than art. Axl doesn't play the game and for a fan like me that works better as opposed to the alternative. Like when he went missing for 7 years, disappeared after CD was released, doesn't do interviews- all that stuff just adds to the mystique in my eyes.

Of course that's just my opinion.

[Padme]

at the core of this discussion is the what ifs?

GNR as it was - was the "it"band of the day while they were on their run.. the demand for them was huge from so many sectors of the industry. Both Axl and Slash were called on to guest on other peoples albums, guested and played on other artists shows...were regulars at the industry awards shows etc... When you consider all the iconic older established acts like Aerosmith, Kiss, Elton John, Tom Petty, Don Henely, Bruce Springsteen .Michael Jackson The Rolling Stones doing a number with Axl and Izzy= all calling them out ...or joing them on stage..that was like the torch being passed to a whole new generation. Hardly any other Sunset Strip refugees were called on to do that on the merits and stregnths of their debute album . Crue, Ratt, Poison LA Guns and the lot of them And it was awesome to see that kind of exposure and recognition ..it added to the thrill of the whole complete growing living entity of GNR. Not only was the image there of badasses living the dream but aside from the personality of the band- the music stood alone and seperate and spoke for itself. At the time it was awesome to feel and experience the energy and the hoopla that the band was generating. When so many people were waiting to see what that band coud do and what they were doing.. people that otherwise hated hard rock and openly mocked the Hollywood image and sounds..but loved GNR... that was a kind of magic.

It will be interesting to find out( if we ever in fact ever do ) as to why Axl didnt flaunt his new band every where and anyplace Why he chose to take this ass backwards approach to rekindling the fire and fury of GNR. Why he didnt have all members out there in the public building up a personality and a curiosity. Consider how it might have been different if in 2000 Axl was out there everywhere selling us the sizzle on his new group and generating excitement for what he was up to? Consider what it might have been if he played some of the new music on SNL or the Late night talk shows? What it would have done for PR sake to clear the air and talk about what who when and how. What was exciting and new to him and what he was all about ...why he chose to recruit and what they brought to the scene..how the music fit the times and the overall concept of what he was concieving etc..

Even the great Robert Plant who could ride in on his merits alone as Led Zepplins singer gets out there and pounds the circut to announce and promote his solo efforts and celebrates his backup muscians and contributors. you can hardly get a ticket to a Robert Plant show. While it might not be the big splash it does keep the flame alive and the interest going

. For me, looking back...I see it as timid.. I see it like a fella who has a new girlfriend and is embarassed to take her to the big party and show her off. Like hes half hearted in his commitment to be part of the relationship.

I don't see it as timid at all. I see it as not playing the game. Doing it on his own terms. I don't want Axl out there doing interviews all the time, looking for cheap publicity. That's part of why I respect him- that he doesn't really do press, doesn't show for the RRHOF, doesn't take the easy road, there's a certain integrity to it... in my estimation.

Even though that means you - as a die-hard fan - only got one album of material from your favorite singer during that entire time? And Axl not doing interviews or playing high-profile tv gigs might mean that he isn't "playing the game" but it also means less opportunities that YOU - the fan - get to see Axl perform live. So Axl is the integrity winner, but the fans are the losers.

I'd rather Axl had no "integrity" (your word) and had released five albums since the old band's breakup, and that he'd done numerous tv and print interviews, and he'd played all the awards shows. I'm a fan of Axl's music and that's what I respect about him - not his "integrity" or lack of desire to play the "game."

Theres a huge difference between a Miley Cyrus attention whore and "playing the game" vs standing by your product and your persona and utilizing the means and methods out there that are best going to get all eyes on the product...

Imagine if this little hypothetical conversation took place in 2000 between Jay Leno or Dave Letterman:

AXL: Hey hey people Ive been gone..I know..I know You missed me . We had a few changes take place in the band and I took a few years off to get this project going. Man its amazing and wait till you hear what Buckethead is doing on it... it will blow you away! ..Hey do you have time to play a clip of it? ......audience cheers.. Axl grins.. its been awesome to hear some of the finished products.. I think it expresses the sentiment I was hoping to achieve. God it was fun getting back into the studio and just seeing and learning how to work with the new technology .( axls excited...the audiece is excited...tv viewers are excited)

We have some big plans ahead.. HOB gigs at the New Years..been invited to play Rock In Rio again so that will be something we have to get done.. looking for a tour of the United States. Were planning on debuting some of the new material on TV...in fact .. Hey Dave I have an Idea... why dont we just play you a new song right here and now? Audience erupts.. Band launches into new song.....NEW ERA explodes. Next day a single is played on the radios throughout the US...word gets out in press .. etc....momentum builds...people start to give a shit again and regard his work as wow.. cool .. thats kind of neat .. interesting .. vs.. This is 15 years and 15 million dollars worth of effort?

VS-

"Artistic INTEGRITY"

"who knows maybe the album will just show up one day on the shelves" - Merck

No introduction of the band..

Silence rumours and weeds grow up around camp GNR... grandbabys are born to the original fan base...

Assuming that GNR fans will automatically allow you to pick up where you left off

Biching and snipping about your band mate"former friends" that abandoned you or tried to force you to do something you didnt.... IE airing the dirty laundry out

letting another half decade come and go without any "artistic integrity" manifesting itself.

That's just not Axl though. I understand your point and respect your opinion. And yeah, I'd like to hear more material- but not at the coset of authenticity. In that case I'd take one album a handful of songs over several albums of disingenuous material. I just read a lot of these comments that Axl should do all this press and promotion, but thats one of the things that has drawn me to him, that drew me to bands like Pearl Jam and others early on- that they didn't do things like that. Some (maybe most) artists seem more concerned with the promotion than with the actual material... and generally speaking they seem to be more successful commercially, but for me the self-promotion, self-commodity really detracts from the music. At a certain point the songs become product rather than art. Axl doesn't play the game and for a fan like me that works better as opposed to the alternative. Like when he went missing for 7 years, disappeared after CD was released, doesn't do interviews- all that stuff just adds to the mystique in my eyes.

Of course that's just my opinion.

I´m not sure you understand. Axl makes news but for the wrong reasons. Like a fight at the airport, a riot or a cancelled tour. I´d rather see Axl doing normal interviews, a late night show. Or at least he could use his twitter more often, a little bit more normal behavior.

Pearl Jam has been making albums, videos and tours on a regular basis. I don´t see Vedder having a fight at an airport, bashing and hating some former drummer all the time. Nor going M.I.A. for 7 years or having a former girlfriend "assistant " and her family as managers. Pearl Jam have had different drummers. They just move on despite that. Vedder never decided to take the name Pearl Jam only for himself and turn the band into a revolving door of hired guys. With their ups and downs they are still the grunge band from Seatle we all know. Sorry, I don´t see many similarities between GN´R and Pearl Jam

[rockerman]

at the core of this discussion is the what ifs?

GNR as it was - was the "it"band of the day while they were on their run.. the demand for them was huge from so many sectors of the industry. Both Axl and Slash were called on to guest on other peoples albums, guested and played on other artists shows...were regulars at the industry awards shows etc... When you consider all the iconic older established acts like Aerosmith, Kiss, Elton John, Tom Petty, Don Henely, Bruce Springsteen .Michael Jackson The Rolling Stones doing a number with Axl and Izzy= all calling them out ...or joing them on stage..that was like the torch being passed to a whole new generation. Hardly any other Sunset Strip refugees were called on to do that on the merits and stregnths of their debute album . Crue, Ratt, Poison LA Guns and the lot of them And it was awesome to see that kind of exposure and recognition ..it added to the thrill of the whole complete growing living entity of GNR. Not only was the image there of badasses living the dream but aside from the personality of the band- the music stood alone and seperate and spoke for itself. At the time it was awesome to feel and experience the energy and the hoopla that the band was generating. When so many people were waiting to see what that band coud do and what they were doing.. people that otherwise hated hard rock and openly mocked the Hollywood image and sounds..but loved GNR... that was a kind of magic.

It will be interesting to find out( if we ever in fact ever do ) as to why Axl didnt flaunt his new band every where and anyplace Why he chose to take this ass backwards approach to rekindling the fire and fury of GNR. Why he didnt have all members out there in the public building up a personality and a curiosity. Consider how it might have been different if in 2000 Axl was out there everywhere selling us the sizzle on his new group and generating excitement for what he was up to? Consider what it might have been if he played some of the new music on SNL or the Late night talk shows? What it would have done for PR sake to clear the air and talk about what who when and how. What was exciting and new to him and what he was all about ...why he chose to recruit and what they brought to the scene..how the music fit the times and the overall concept of what he was concieving etc..

Even the great Robert Plant who could ride in on his merits alone as Led Zepplins singer gets out there and pounds the circut to announce and promote his solo efforts and celebrates his backup muscians and contributors. you can hardly get a ticket to a Robert Plant show. While it might not be the big splash it does keep the flame alive and the interest going

. For me, looking back...I see it as timid.. I see it like a fella who has a new girlfriend and is embarassed to take her to the big party and show her off. Like hes half hearted in his commitment to be part of the relationship.

I don't see it as timid at all. I see it as not playing the game. Doing it on his own terms. I don't want Axl out there doing interviews all the time, looking for cheap publicity. That's part of why I respect him- that he doesn't really do press, doesn't show for the RRHOF, doesn't take the easy road, there's a certain integrity to it... in my estimation.

Even though that means you - as a die-hard fan - only got one album of material from your favorite singer during that entire time? And Axl not doing interviews or playing high-profile tv gigs might mean that he isn't "playing the game" but it also means less opportunities that YOU - the fan - get to see Axl perform live. So Axl is the integrity winner, but the fans are the losers.

I'd rather Axl had no "integrity" (your word) and had released five albums since the old band's breakup, and that he'd done numerous tv and print interviews, and he'd played all the awards shows. I'm a fan of Axl's music and that's what I respect about him - not his "integrity" or lack of desire to play the "game."

Theres a huge difference between a Miley Cyrus attention whore and "playing the game" vs standing by your product and your persona and utilizing the means and methods out there that are best going to get all eyes on the product...

Imagine if this little hypothetical conversation took place in 2000 between Jay Leno or Dave Letterman:

AXL: Hey hey people Ive been gone..I know..I know You missed me . We had a few changes take place in the band and I took a few years off to get this project going. Man its amazing and wait till you hear what Buckethead is doing on it... it will blow you away! ..Hey do you have time to play a clip of it? ......audience cheers.. Axl grins.. its been awesome to hear some of the finished products.. I think it expresses the sentiment I was hoping to achieve. God it was fun getting back into the studio and just seeing and learning how to work with the new technology .( axls excited...the audiece is excited...tv viewers are excited)

We have some big plans ahead.. HOB gigs at the New Years..been invited to play Rock In Rio again so that will be something we have to get done.. looking for a tour of the United States. Were planning on debuting some of the new material on TV...in fact .. Hey Dave I have an Idea... why dont we just play you a new song right here and now? Audience erupts.. Band launches into new song.....NEW ERA explodes. Next day a single is played on the radios throughout the US...word gets out in press .. etc....momentum builds...people start to give a shit again and regard his work as wow.. cool .. thats kind of neat .. interesting .. vs.. This is 15 years and 15 million dollars worth of effort?

VS-

"Artistic INTEGRITY"

"who knows maybe the album will just show up one day on the shelves" - Merck

No introduction of the band..

Silence rumours and weeds grow up around camp GNR... grandbabys are born to the original fan base...

Assuming that GNR fans will automatically allow you to pick up where you left off

Biching and snipping about your band mate"former friends" that abandoned you or tried to force you to do something you didnt.... IE airing the dirty laundry out

letting another half decade come and go without any "artistic integrity" manifesting itself.

That's just not Axl though. I understand your point and respect your opinion. And yeah, I'd like to hear more material- but not at the coset of authenticity. In that case I'd take one album a handful of songs over several albums of disingenuous material. I just read a lot of these comments that Axl should do all this press and promotion, but thats one of the things that has drawn me to him, that drew me to bands like Pearl Jam and others early on- that they didn't do things like that. Some (maybe most) artists seem more concerned with the promotion than with the actual material... and generally speaking they seem to be more successful commercially, but for me the self-promotion, self-commodity really detracts from the music. At a certain point the songs become product rather than art. Axl doesn't play the game and for a fan like me that works better as opposed to the alternative. Like when he went missing for 7 years, disappeared after CD was released, doesn't do interviews- all that stuff just adds to the mystique in my eyes.

Of course that's just my opinion.

CD is about as disingenous as they come. tinkered and tampered and rerecorded and fucked with... obvious lyrical deficiet and continuity challenged- recorded over a period of what? 10 years. Worth the wait.. well personal taste and personal opinion has to prevail on that album . The sound catered to the industrial.. which was a blip in the scene in the early 2000's...it played to the classic sound and it crashed into whatever Silkworms and Rhiad is cut out of sound..... its is not the authentic sound of the muscians playing on it so the sound is manufactured as is the style it trys to emmulate... BH and Fink dont play in the style authentically as Slash and Izzy did and yet them and the rest of the crew continue to offer up reproductions of the classic GNR sound every single time they are on stage... thats about as inauthentic as you can get....

Truth be told.. CD could have 5 albums in its ilk out by now.. its not like the technolgy has this long fermenting period to incubate its like and its not like the music and the composition is soo well thought out and executed that it takes years to learn... so there is little or no excuse....I dont buy into that it takes 10 years to figure out how to write and produce and record an album and that time made CD SOOO much more than what it was in 99

Crux of my point is.. Yes GNR is a for profit entity Yes it is a brand... yes it is a cultural phenomenon yes it has a historic precedent...being both "too cooL and too arrogant to get off your ass and drum up some notice.. if not for yourself then for the sake of the band and the HISTORY of the the name and what it stood for. Twerking you ass is one thing but umm discussing it and adding to it is another. Allying yourself with potential fans and addressing the loyal ones isnt distracting from it its adding to it... its celebrating it and promoting it. A good percentage of the millinials didnt even take a casual look at it because to them ...it was dads music..and it was cock rock and a generation and a half later ..it was dinosaur rock. THe only way it could have had wheels was if the music was so phenominal and over the top that NO one could ignore it or say anything but wow.. that was soo worth the time and effort it took to wait 14 years for.