Chainsforalice Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Both bands have entirely new lineups besides the vocalist & main songwriter, yet Pumpkins seems to have been more widely accepted, why is that? Is it because of "Ocenia" being more highly praised than "Chinese Democracy" or that Billy is more agressive in promoting ? Or that people can't let go of Slash ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 slash's top hat and smoke are part of what made gnr "cool"no one gives a fuck about anyone in SP apart from corgan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) Because Billy Corgan was always the most notable member of Smashing Pumpkins and as shown by Oceania he really is "that" SP sound with everyone else being secondary - although past members did incorporate their unique and great musicianship. It just was always Billy being able to conjure up that specific entity.You can say anything you want about GNR but one thing you can't say is that the instrumental members of the band from 86-93 didn't make a huge impact on the soundscape of the band. When you combine that musically different sound with a lack of members (Slash) who were as in the spotlight in GNR as Axl to me it isn't a surprise or even out of the question for people to not give current GNR the Smashing Pumpkins treatmentPlus Billy is actually doing stuff with the SP name, whereas with GNR there has been failed attempts at moving forward - making it inevitable for GNR fans to constantly look back Edited December 21, 2013 by WhazUp 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young_Gun Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Corgan both WROTE AND PLAYED(guitar, vocals/lyrics, bass) most of the songs back in the day and continues to do so now. The main essence is still there. The same cannot be said for Axl who mainly contributed to vocals/lyrics(aside from November Rain, Estranged etc). Guns N' Roses originally was 5 equal parts with each member bringing in their own style. From Izzy's constructive and catchy rhythm, to Slash's pleasing and melodic solos, to Adler's off the wall loose drumming to Duff's thumping and prominent basslines. Axl didn't write any solos, Axl did not contribute any basslines, Axl did not put down any drum beats. You get idiots like MSL who think Axl was the main songwriter but the only songs he truly wrote on his lonesome were the likes of November Rain, Estranged, etc. The band was a collective who used to jam out songs in the back of a van on the way to a show unlike now where the 'band' never even speak to eachother(let alone record together) besides being on tour. Smashing Pumpkins was always the Corgan(and Jimmy to an extent) show. That is why you rarely get Pumpkins fans(myself included) saying "bring back D'arcy!!" because the other members contributed very little even by their own admission. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguy Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 God damn, there is zero similarity here. Other than drums, Billy Corgan played and composed nearly every single note on Gish, Siamese Dream, and Mellon Collie. 1979 is essentially nothing but Billy. Billy is Smashing Pumpkins. Axl is nothing at all similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarBradley Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 God damn, there is zero similarity here.Other than drums, Billy Corgan played and composed nearly every single note on Gish, Siamese Dream, and Mellon Collie. 1979 is essentially nothing but Billy. Billy is Smashing Pumpkins.Axl is nothing at all similar.Yup. Same goes for VH, Eddie, Alex, and Mike still wrote the majority if not all of the music when Sammy joined. And the current lineup is pretty well accepted too because it has DLR, EVH, and AVH. New GNR will never be fully accepted as GNR, its that simple. Unfortunate for those who are die hard fans of the new line up, but I really think that it's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TombRaider Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Corgan both WROTE AND PLAYED(guitar, vocals/lyrics, bass) most of the songs back in the day and continues to do so now. The main essence is still there. The same cannot be said for Axl who mainly contributed to vocals/lyrics(aside from November Rain, Estranged etc). Guns N' Roses originally was 5 equal parts with each member bringing in their own style. From Izzy's constructive and catchy rhythm, to Slash's pleasing and melodic solos, to Adler's off the wall loose drumming to Duff's thumping and prominent basslines. Axl didn't write any solos, Axl did not contribute any basslines, Axl did not put down any drum beats. You get idiots like MSL who think Axl was the main songwriter but the only songs he truly wrote on his lonesome were the likes of November Rain, Estranged, etc. The band was a collective who used to jam out songs in the back of a van on the way to a show unlike now where the 'band' never even speak to eachother(let alone record together) besides being on tour. Smashing Pumpkins was always the Corgan(and Jimmy to an extent) show. That is why you rarely get Pumpkins fans(myself included) saying "bring back D'arcy!!" because the other members contributed very little even by their own admission.This man speaks the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Corgan both WROTE AND PLAYED(guitar, vocals/lyrics, bass) most of the songs back in the day and continues to do so now. The main essence is still there. The same cannot be said for Axl who mainly contributed to vocals/lyrics(aside from November Rain, Estranged etc). Guns N' Roses originally was 5 equal parts with each member bringing in their own style. From Izzy's constructive and catchy rhythm, to Slash's pleasing and melodic solos, to Adler's off the wall loose drumming to Duff's thumping and prominent basslines. Axl didn't write any solos, Axl did not contribute any basslines, Axl did not put down any drum beats. You get idiots like MSL who think Axl was the main songwriter but the only songs he truly wrote on his lonesome were the likes of November Rain, Estranged, etc. The band was a collective who used to jam out songs in the back of a van on the way to a show unlike now where the 'band' never even speak to eachother(let alone record together) besides being on tour. Smashing Pumpkins was always the Corgan(and Jimmy to an extent) show. That is why you rarely get Pumpkins fans(myself included) saying "bring back D'arcy!!" because the other members contributed very little even by their own admission.Agreed. Plus there's public image. The average music fan could probably only ever name Corgan as a Pumpkins member. But even the most casual music fan could at least name Axl and Slash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIC04 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 To the original poster, simply put Billy is the smashing pumpkins.....It was him who did all of the stuff on the disks, minus drums..That goes to the drum god Jimmy..i'm a huge Pumpkins fan, and hell i cant think of one of us who is like lets bring back Darcy or lets bring back the ex Hole member.. The Pumpkins will always be Billy's baby...Lets also remember, he has still recorded and released a ton of stuff since the 'original line up' quit or was fired....He did Zeit(with Jimmy), then he released for free a bunch of singles, and Oceana with their new drummer, who is damn good as well...I wish Axl would do what Billy is doing, itd help him alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethalis Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) Even current Alice In Chains gets more respect than new GnR.Why? Because Jerry Cantrell was the principal songwriter anyways. Layne Stayley had the voice (and the fact that he is dead probably makes a difference).I was very sceptical of Alice in Chains reuniting at the beginning, but the fans have got 2 new albums since then. And The Devil Put Dinosaurs Here is a friggin' great album.Songs like Breath on a Window, Phantom Limb and Hung on a Hook completely blew me away.Chinese Democracy was a bit of a let down unfortunately. It wasn't bad, but wasn't great either. And it's old by now as well.GnR needs a new album, a video and promotion. Stuff that probably is not gonna happen anytime soon.And even that might not be enough. When Oasis split up, I've listened to Beady Eye and it just didn't live up to Oasis. Edited December 21, 2013 by Lethalis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIC04 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Im a diehard AIC fan.Dirt to me is probably one of the best albums of all time if you ask me....Lets not forget however, that it was Jerrys n Laynes harmonies that made them something amazing.... I bought their last one,Devil and the one before that Black gives way...Ya they are great disks, ya they sound hella tight,, still miss Layne however..Yet I think most fans forgave them for coming back,because they all knew just how sick Layne was say 7 years before he tragically died.. One look at their Unplugged performance says that...Hell they used Mad Season footage of him in the 2000 version of another brick in the wall for that soundtrack...Get born again,same thing...I think most fans are just glad to see Jerry n the boys playing and writing again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young_Gun Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Im a diehard AIC fan.Dirt to me is probably one of the best albums of all time if you ask me....Lets not forget however, that it was Jerrys n Laynes harmonies that made them something amazing.... I bought their last one,Devil and the one before that Black gives way...Ya they are great disks, ya they sound hella tight,, still miss Layne however..Yet I think most fans forgave them for coming back,because they all knew just how sick Layne was say 7 years before he tragically died.. One look at their Unplugged performance says that...Hell they used Mad Season footage of him in the 2000 version of another brick in the wall for that soundtrack...Get born again,same thing...I think most fans are just glad to see Jerry n the boys playing and writing again....I was a bit stuck on Alice In Chains coming back but eventually I accepted them as Jerry was always the main songwriter and Layne did pass away. I think the fact that they didn't publicly whore the audition for the lead singer role(ala INXS) made it a bit more acceptable also. Layne was a huge part of the AIC sound but he sadly passed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Corgan both WROTE AND PLAYED(guitar, vocals/lyrics, bass) most of the songs back in the day and continues to do so now. The main essence is still there. The same cannot be said for Axl who mainly contributed to vocals/lyrics(aside from November Rain, Estranged etc). Guns N' Roses originally was 5 equal parts with each member bringing in their own style. From Izzy's constructive and catchy rhythm, to Slash's pleasing and melodic solos, to Adler's off the wall loose drumming to Duff's thumping and prominent basslines. Axl didn't write any solos, Axl did not contribute any basslines, Axl did not put down any drum beats. You get idiots like MSL who think Axl was the main songwriter but the only songs he truly wrote on his lonesome were the likes of November Rain, Estranged, etc. The band was a collective who used to jam out songs in the back of a van on the way to a show unlike now where the 'band' never even speak to eachother(let alone record together) besides being on tour. Smashing Pumpkins was always the Corgan(and Jimmy to an extent) show. That is why you rarely get Pumpkins fans(myself included) saying "bring back D'arcy!!" because the other members contributed very little even by their own admission.But there actually is quite a few people who say things like that.... by Corgan's own admission....especially D'Arcy. Im a diehard AIC fan.Dirt to me is probably one of the best albums of all time if you ask me....Lets not forget however, that it was Jerrys n Laynes harmonies that made them something amazing.... I bought their last one,Devil and the one before that Black gives way...Ya they are great disks, ya they sound hella tight,, still miss Layne however..Yet I think most fans forgave them for coming back,because they all knew just how sick Layne was say 7 years before he tragically died.. One look at their Unplugged performance says that...Hell they used Mad Season footage of him in the 2000 version of another brick in the wall for that soundtrack...Get born again,same thing...I think most fans are just glad to see Jerry n the boys playing and writing again....That wasn't AIC that covered Another Brick in the Wall for the Faculty. That was Staley in some supergroup- I forget the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trqster Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) Gn'R without Slash will never be accepted, because Slash was the soul of Gn'R as much as Axl was/is the heart. You need heart & soul to have magic... Edited December 21, 2013 by trqster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Not the same at all. Besides, who truly believes Smashing Pumpkins is a thing anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bonham Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 New Smashing Pumpkins release albums with new music. Axl Rose is still stuck in the past, Nu-GnR is like the Beach Boys if they had never done "Kokomo" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damn_Smooth Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 New Smashing Pumpkins release albums with new music.Axl Rose is still stuck in the past, Nu-GnR is like the Beach Boys if they had never done "Kokomo"That's the truth right there. No boring ass fanboy wall of text needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITG Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I recall Billy used GN'R as a reference to his advantage in some interviews. It worked in his favor by comparison because his takeover looked far more legitimate. I do shed a tear at the idea that Axl would ever break into the studio and re-record over Buckethead and Finck's parts with his own guitarwork . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Im a diehard AIC fan.Dirt to me is probably one of the best albums of all time if you ask me....Lets not forget however, that it was Jerrys n Laynes harmonies that made them something amazing.... I bought their last one,Devil and the one before that Black gives way...Ya they are great disks, ya they sound hella tight,, still miss Layne however..Yet I think most fans forgave them for coming back,because they all knew just how sick Layne was say 7 years before he tragically died.. One look at their Unplugged performance says that...Hell they used Mad Season footage of him in the 2000 version of another brick in the wall for that soundtrack...Get born again,same thing...I think most fans are just glad to see Jerry n the boys playing and writing again....That wasn't AIC that covered Another Brick in the Wall for the Faculty. That was Staley in some supergroup- I forget the name. Class Of '99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardNixon Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Billy Corgan wrote all of their songs (Iha co-wrote a few), was their lead singer and guitar player and apart from the drums he played most of the instruments on most of their albums. SP is Billy Corgan. They were/are a band in name only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Smashing Pumpkins was as much of a collaboration as NIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liers Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 (edited) GnR was a bigger more well-known band than the Smashing Pumpkins were.GnR's guitarist was easilly recognizable, not so much with the Smashing Pumkins.Not to mention, the way axl went about forming the new band was all wrong. He vanished for 7 years, came back, did a few shows and cancelled the 2001 tour. 2002 came he started it out with a riot, and soon the tour ended due to another one. 2003-2005 another lost period. He comes back, bucket left, brain soon leaves, more album delays. Then, when the album is finally released, 2008, he does no promotion for a year.Meanwhile, in this time, CD built up this unworldly hype. If it was released in 2002 with the band that wrote the album, I think GnR would've been huge again.Smashing Pumpkins didn't build up that hype and they properly promoted stuff.Another band though that gets no hate but did what axl attempted was santana. The lead singer was pretty much the only member left. The old lineup had black magic women that they were famous for. In the late 90's the new lineup release smooth. That songs became a number one hit, and it was a completely different direction for the band. Edited December 21, 2013 by liers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadcaplaughs Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I do not think anyonye would turn down the opportunity to see the orginal Smashing Pumpkins, or at least the 2000 lineup. As others have pointed out, however, the main driving force was Billy Corgan. D'arcy and James had an impact on the songs to a small extent (particularly on everything from 1995 on) and of course Jimmy was one of the best drummers of the last 20 years, but ultiamtely Corgan was the driving force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacca Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 I didn't even know they were back, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 What made GN'R famous: The combination of the different talents of all the members who took part in everything from AFD to UYIWhat made SP famous: Billy Corgan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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