Which ones of Axl's indescretions do you find it diificult to forgive him for?

[Apollo]

I'll never forgive him for not bringing in DJ earlier. I mean, volcano and wfuckinga have opened my eyes: GNR never really took off until DJ joined. DJ is bigger than Jimmy Page.

LOL, so true.

The sad part is that while you are making a joke......those guys actually believe that.

[TeeJay410]

Forgive him for? Who really takes it that seriously? Isn't it a bit absurd to forgive someone for transgressions that didn't happen to you?

If I had to pick however, the lyrics in one in a million are abhorrent. Also the domestic abuse accusations are difficult to swallow. Axl certainly is no role model.

[Apollo]

Right on cue with the edit/pasting about "one album____________" and "axl is a wife beater." Wait, no mention of misguided worshippers?! I'm shocked.

Are you drinking again today?

Add this to the list of things I say all the time to you. "This topic isn't about individual posters, can you stick to the actual topic please? Instead of insulting other posters, how about showing us why you think they are wrong."

Groghan, this topic isn't about individual posters. Please don't derail it. My comment could be directed at anyone.

Right on cue with the edit/pasting about "one album____________" and "axl is a wife beater." Wait, no mention of misguided worshippers?! I'm shocked.

Are we Axl Worshippers or Misguided Axl Worshippers? I need to know for my title

Just "worshippers." (sometimes with "Axl" before "worshippers"). I threw in "misguided" for color. He used to say "nutter" all the time, then Flayer told the forum how, if you search for the term "nutter", almost all the results are his. So he stopped using "nutter."

It really is impressive how you keep track of what people post. All of us should take the forum so srsly. Oops. Do you keep all your posting data history an excel spreadsheet or in a notebook?

I can use the word Nutters again if you'd prefer. What word would make you happy? What word means "people that come to the forum specifically just to argue with people and that defend Axl's every move"........worshipper, nutter, is there a different word that would make you happy?

Funny how you tell me to stay on topic....... but your entire post is about me and has nothing to do with the actual topic. Ooops!

Forgive him for? Who really takes it that seriously? Isn't it a bit absurd to forgive someone for transgressions that didn't happen to you?

If I had to pick however, the lyrics in one in a million are abhorrent. Also the domestic abuse accusations are difficult to swallow. Axl certainly is no role model.

Great post TeeJay.

All of this is just fodder to fill up time because we all follow a band that rarely releases music.

If Axl chose to release music more often, and/or communicated with his fans on a more regular basis, then I think most of these discussions would disappear.

[classicrawker]

Axl does not need me to forgive him for anything but his lack of consideration for his fans is pretty poor IMHO..........

Going on late, no communications etc.............

[saber_]

It really is impressive how you keep track of what people post. All of us should take the forum so srsly. Oops. Do you keep all your posting data history an excel spreadsheet or in a notebook?

Remembering Flayer's discovery = keeping an excel spreadsheet. Fantastic logic. Your students would be proud. I wonder though, if some of them might be a tadmore adept at logic than you. Or maybe you're not really the teacher, you're one of the students. Hmm.

On topic:

I forgive Axl for everything. Because I'm.... "a worshipper." No but seriously, I can't really hold anything against Axl, other than hoarding music.

[WhazUp]

Taking the name does an enormous discredit to the original band members, something I would find it hard to forgive him for.

I don´t see it that way. He is one of the founders of the band and he´s been there since day one and he saw the band was like a boat that was about to sink so he did what he thought it was best.

Unfortunately what he thought was best resulted in a decade and a half filled with one album and a bunch of "what if's"

Not that it really matters anymore but I bet that if Axl just decided to make his own ship instead of replacing important and signature parts of an already sinking ship the we would have gotten more valuable cargo.

Edited January 4, 2014 by WhazUp

[Mr. Dude]

The Stones were 'junkies' also. Imagine if Mick Jagger got Keith to sign the band name over before dissolving the band, forming a new band with the same name then trying to sign the same Keef bloody Richards, founding member of the band and its soul, as a gormless Nugnr-style lackey? I do not think many people would forgive Mick either. But The Rolling Stones and Mick Jagger did not do that thank-the-lord, and in fact recorded some of their greatest and most creative records while strung out on junk such as Sticky Fingers and Exile on Main St.

Even the very manner in which Axl took over Guns N’ Roses is deeply machiavellian, dissolving the old band and creating a new band with the same name like some sort of bankrupt New York corporation employing a IRS tax dodge. It strikes me as cunning, sly and deeply amoral.

Anyone who knows the history of the Stones knows Mick is way more Machiavellian than Axl.

No doubt. I think the difference is that Keith was more willing to let Mick run the band.

[rockerman]

Axl didn't turn up to the studio? Seriously? He LIVED in the studio during UYI,

wrong he lived there for his parts but dialed in the rest... and that was because he couldnt adhere to a schedule and never could be counted on for showing up when he was supposed to. He couldnt be bothered so they moved him in so he would actually do his work.

[rock4eva]

Beating multiple women..........I don't know how any man could do that. It is just disgusting.

Groghan I know you seem to have loathing for men who beat women & it's a pity more men didn't feel the same. However is it our business to 'forgive or not forgive' him for something that didn't personally happen to us? That was his private life & he grew up seeing this as a child apparently & obviously had anger issues as witnessed in the videos I've seen, especially his family who got a good spray on stage one night.

He has had an array of women in his life since his split from Stephanie & not one has claimed any beatings from him & I'd say if any did they wouldn't hesitate to come forward. His anger issues have calmed down on stage when people throw things & fight in the audience compared to 'the good old days' so there has been some positive influence in his life since then.

The band couldn't have kept going the way they were with Duff & his drinking and Slash with his drugs, plus Axl turning up for rehearsals according to Duff in the middle of the night when he was packing up to go home & had no conception of timing. So Axl is only partly to blame for the break up of the band, they really just spontaneously combusted.

Turning up (or not turning up) for concerts when the audience were already there would have been something not to forgive & people still haven't forgotten that reputation. That has also been resolved to a great extend, not releasing new songs is obviously a real bug bear for fans but is it unforgivable? Annoying yes, very frustrating yes but unforgivable?

Not communicating with fans is also annoying but I wouldn't call that unforgivable, totally frustrating how little communication he has but we do see that side of him telling stories to fans while having photos taken.

So no there's nothing I can't forgive him for but I do think he could relate to fans a lot more than a couple of tweets a year, he's likely fed up with the new music questions but that is his fault. He could give an indication of why no new music, either he prefers touring, his vault is full of songs he doesn't want royalties going to past members but can't redo with the current band because of law suits, record label problems, something so he isn't constantly criticised for not giving any ideas of what's happening.

Have the women he beat forgiven him or have they been totally traumatised from their experience? The not forgiving part is up to them & they did pay him back well and good for their treatment by law suits & leaving him which we are led to believe could have cost him his life with depression.

How many men on this forum have beat on their women? How many would come forward honestly and admit this, or vice versa? I've never been witness to domestic violence myself - however watching true crime stories shows how hard it is to leave & Axl apparently stalked one of the partners for a year just not getting the hint she wanted nothing more to do with him. Sad but true.

[wasted]

if you a drunk drug addict it's never your fault.

[Rovim]

Making Jarmo an insider. For shame.

[Bono]

Domestic abuse is the big one.

One thing that always bugged me was the lyrics to One in a Million. yeah yeah I get it. Trust me I know the story about the song I don't need some Axl defender flying in here to explain to me the song. The FACT is Axl is such a great lyricist that I wish he'd have been a bit more tactful with the lyrics on that song because in my mind it's one of their absolute best songs. It's his best vocal performance I think but sadly it's marred with not only controversial lyrics(cause controversial lyrics can be good) but it's loaded with bigotry and racism whether it was his intention or not it's there so I think that's a shame that such a great song is in a sense ruined by the immature, hateful lyrics.

[DangerousCurves]

Forgive indicates that I feel I somehow deserve an apology from him. As I have never met the man, I don't feel that I need to forgive him for anything.

[DieselDaisy]

Jesus, people would defend this Axl guy if he raped 50 kids and become a muslim terroist!! There is literally no reasoning here. I mean it is a legit argument that take over a band in a dubious manner is somewhat amoral and cunning yet none of you are willing to address this!

[Mr. Dude]

Jesus, people would defend this Axl guy if he raped 50 kids and become a muslim terroist!! There is literally no reasoning here. I mean it is a legit argument that take over a band in a dubious manner is somewhat amoral and cunning yet none of you are willing to address this!

I'm fairly new here, but it would appear to me that those topics have been addressed to death...on a daily basis....and that's a very poor and disproportionate analogy that you employ

-respectfully from one Neil Young fan to another

[DieselDaisy]

Come on mate. The guy has release one album in twenty years. Everyone who has worked for him thinks he is a complete arse, Dizzy Reed discluded of course; I mean you have the whole of the old band, Buckethead, about five million producers and AaR people who worked on Chinese saying exactly the same thing, yet, some people will defend him to the death!

[stella]

The domestic violence. There haven't been any reports of that for a good 20 years, which is positive, and perhaps it means that he's sought help for that. Still, it's hard to forget what he did there.

In terms of the band, the late starts, since those are unequivocally Axl's fault and they have a negative effect on so many. The breakup of the original band is something that had a lot of cooks stirring the pot, but with the lateness is all on Axl.

Edited January 4, 2014 by stella

[DangerousCurves]

We don't need to "address" jack shit. Our opinions, forgiveness (or lack thereof), and general feelings about his transgressions don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I doubt very much that he is hovering over his keyboard waiting for us to compile a list of his sins that we feel we should or shouldn't forgive him for. I have not defended his actions, nor have I raked him over coals for them because they had nothing to do with me. It's really self-righteous of any "fan" to feel that their forgiveness is even something to be considered. It's far more troubling that any fan spends so much time thinking of things that he needs forgiving for. Don't like him? Don't buy his music, leave the forum, don't buy Axl swag. Like him? Then stfu and stop finding ways to stir the pot. There is enough drama here. So many of the above described acts requiring forgiveness happened years ago. Decades, really. Get over it, move on, go save dolphins with Matt. There is plenty of injustice in the world to address without poring over the personal life of a celebrity.

[Mr. Dude]

Come on mate. The guy has release one album in twenty years. Everyone who has worked for him thinks he is a complete arse, Dizzy Reed discluded of course; I mean you have the whole of the old band, Buckethead, about five million producers and AaR people who worked on Chinese saying exactly the same thing, yet, some people will defend him to the death!

ok, but what's the point of harping on about it? There's more than enough of that already and I don't get any enjoyment out of it. I'd rather talk about records, songs, musicians, and other things I like. I like outside the box thinking and its all so very trendy, tired, and (almost) cliched standard fare at this point to rag on Axl Rose about the usual things. I'll leave that to other people, I'm interested in things I enjoy and that's not one of em. I mean I love Pearl Jam's catalog up until about 2003, but I don't waste my time bitching about the last 3 records that I despise. I'd rather talk about the aspects that I like, but to each his own.

We don't need to "address" jack shit. Our opinions, forgiveness (or lack thereof), and general feelings about his transgressions don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I doubt very much that he is hovering over his keyboard waiting for us to compile a list of his sins that we feel we should or shouldn't forgive him for. I have not defended his actions, nor have I raked him over coals for them because they had nothing to do with me. It's really self-righteous of any "fan" to feel that their forgiveness is even something to be considered. It's far more troubling that any fan spends so much time thinking of things that he needs forgiving for. Don't like him? Don't buy his music, leave the forum, don't buy Axl swag. Like him? Then stfu and stop finding ways to stir the pot. There is enough drama here. So many of the above described acts requiring forgiveness happened years ago. Decades, really. Get over it, move on, go save dolphins with Matt. There is plenty of injustice in the world to address without poring over the personal life of a celebrity.

Exactly, precisely 100% what I was thinking. I don't get the impression that dangercurve is the biggest fan of CD or new GNR, but she doesn't rag on and on and on about it either. Its just pointless to me to invest so much time, thought, and energy into something you don't like.

[DangerousCurves]

^this^

[ShirleyRocks]

Domestic abuse is the big one.

One thing that always bugged me was the lyrics to One in a Million. yeah yeah I get it. Trust me I know the story about the song I don't need some Axl defender flying in here to explain to me the song. The FACT is Axl is such a great lyricist that I wish he'd have been a bit more tactful with the lyrics on that song because in my mind it's one of their absolute best songs. It's his best vocal performance I think but sadly it's marred with not only controversial lyrics(cause controversial lyrics can be good) but it's loaded with bigotry and racism whether it was his intention or not it's there so I think that's a shame that such a great song is in a sense ruined by the immature, hateful lyrics.

You just put into words what I really couldn't for all of these years since it came out. It's one of my favorite GnR songs, and one I turn to when things get really shitty and I need to tap into something rebellious (like Money Man by the Stones when I'm less angry but being rebellious) but it's a song I feel so closeted by because the lyrics say awful things about some of the people I love. I'm extra-torn because I have actually experienced some of the events in the song (getting off a bus, guitar in hand, with some ... guy coming up to me trying to sell gold chains out of his jacket, but in Buffalo, NY) so a lot of the song is part of my experience, and it wasn't just that moment but ... I'm not a person who uses or believes in some of those words. All of that said, I have at least one gay friend who loves the GnR Lies album with real intensity and at least doesn't find that "F word" used in it problematic at all. But the whole song could have had the same impact and same level of honesty without just a few certain words.

I could never get up on stage and sing that song, even though the overall feel to it is something that is really at my core. It's a song that has really intensely become a part of my life, especially when times get tough, but I feel like I have to keep it under wraps because it contains things that are hurtful to people I love.

I wish he'd picked different targets for the song.

[Hollywood Gunner]

Never fighting Vince Neil

[Guest Len B'stard]

I am not Axls creator or his judge, it is not my business to condemn or absolve or otherwise stand in judgement over him, nor would i care to, there is nothing to forgive and we are all the free and beautiful children of God...who doesn't exist

[DR DOOM]

Ashba

[kanudo19]

I'll never forgive him for not bringing in DJ earlier. I mean, volcano and wfuckinga have opened my eyes: GNR never really took off until DJ joined. DJ is bigger than Jimmy Page.

LOL, so true.

The sad part is that while you are making a joke......those guys actually believe that.

And that's why ashba sells swag for the demented