US Economic Recovery

[Apollo]

Recovering like a motherfucker.

Those numbers aren't accurate. The evil republicans have posted FAKE charts like that to get people to turn against Obama.

Don't worry bro - Obama has got this.

You don't live here, so you don't know. Ten years ago America was about to collapse. Have you seen The Walking Dead? It was like that, but without zombies. There was no food, no shelter, no health care. 95% of the US didn't have electricity, 92% didn't have running water. You couldn't leave your tent in fear of being raped and killed or eaten by cannibals. It was a nightmare, a living hell. But then Obama was elected and things changed. Almost over night. And now today - wow. There are no more poor people. Anybody who was worth over a million dollars now STOPS at a million and shares the rest of their money with others. In three more years every single adult in the US will be worth (or have an income) of 85,000 per year. Nobody will make more, nobody will make less. A McDonald's worker will make the same as a doctor. Since Obama has taken office, we all now have food, water, shelter, free medical, etc. Before he leaves office, America will officially be the number one rated country in the world.

With Bush in charge, we were literally four days away from our entire nation dying off. Thank God that Obama has saved us all. You could almost argue that Obama saved the world.

Funny, I was listening to a couple guys talking politics and one said Bush almost killed his state, but now that Obama was in office, the economic growth in his state (and lowering unemployment numbers) showed that Obama might be the best president ever. The other guy said "you do realize that we have a republican governor, right? And we are a republican ran state, right? You don't give local government any credit for this?" And the other guy answered - I'm not kidding - "well, maybe a little. But it's mainly because of Obama." This is why I tend to stay out of politic debates. Most people are so tied to their political party that they can't see the positives/negatives from BOTH sides.

[downzy]

Recovering like a motherfucker.

Oh look, another graph posted by Mags that excludes any kind of context or explanation.

Here's the article:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-10/nyc-s-record-homeless-population-seeks-shelter-at-laguardia

New York’s homelessness crisis stems from a shortage of affordable housing. Median rents rose 75 percent from 2000 to 2012, compared with 44 percent in the rest of the U.S., according to a 2014 report (pdf) by City Comptroller Scott Stringer. In addition, New York lost about 400,000 apartments renting for $1,000 or less.

The median monthly rent will reach $2,700 this year, according to the real-estate website StreetEasy.com. That’s $1,300 more than what a resident working 40 hours per week and making the minimum wage earns a month, before taxes.

In 2005, New York stopped giving priority for federal housing aid to homeless families and children in shelters. The city started Advantage, a rental-assistance program, jointly funded by the state, in 2007. Former Mayor Michael Bloomberg ended the program in February 2012 after the state cut funding. In the 21 months that followed, almost 50 percent of families enrolled in Advantage returned to shelters. The former mayor is founder and majority owner of Bloomberg News parent Bloomberg LP.

You would be better off arguing that the growth in the U.S. economy isn't shared equally. But to point to increase homeless problem as evidence that the economy isn't recovering (since it's a result of rising rent and real estate prices: items that don't normally rise during an economic downturn) is disingenuous to the conversation.

[magisme]

Recovered.

80% of workforce:

Bosses:

Edited March 12, 2015 by magisme

[Dazey]

Recovered.

80% of workforce:

Bosses:

Isn't that chart showing that the grunts did significantly better than the bosses last year?

[magisme]

Not really, because we have to remember that much of (at least American) executive pay has nothing to do with wages. They get bonuses, stock incentives and the like that send them through the roof. 4% is considered "good" by people who think that inflation is, by definition, good, which is to say economists whose main life experience comes from excel spreadsheets. Your typical wage earner hasn't been anywhere near 4% since the beginning of 2009. They popped up to 2.5%, which is still considered stagnant, until beginning to collapse in 2014. Supervisor's wages, for some reason, are beginning to skyrocket just as your typical wage earner's plummet. That's where we are now.

[magisme]

Recovered!

[arnold layne]

Can I bitch about college here? I want to and I don't know where else to complain, but seriously - fuck college. It's the biggest fucking scam in recent history. Do you know what college has become for most people? Highschool Pt 2, except you pay a lot more for it.

College doesn't pay the fucking bills. A job does.

I should have dropped out.

[AxlisOld]

Can I bitch about college here? I want to and I don't know where else to complain, but seriously - fuck college. It's the biggest fucking scam in recent history. Do you know what college has become for most people? Highschool Pt 2, except you pay a lot more for it.

College doesn't pay the fucking bills. A job does.

I should have dropped out.

YOU should have dropped out because your parents vicariously got a degree through you. MOST people say, "what would I like to do?" and get a degree that will allow them into that field. Seriously, that's a thing. You don't have to go that route, some people still hire based on experience. I have an AA in "showing up" basically and I got a well paying job based on the fact that I work hard and I'm good at what I do.

College matters, just not to you.

[arnold layne]

Good point.

I'm just pissed at my parents.

Edited April 21, 2015 by arnold layne

[Apollo]

Can I bitch about college here? I want to and I don't know where else to complain, but seriously - fuck college. It's the biggest fucking scam in recent history. Do you know what college has become for most people? Highschool Pt 2, except you pay a lot more for it.

College doesn't pay the fucking bills. A job does.

I should have dropped out.

A month after you graduated from college you had a $50,000 a year job at 21-years old.

College absolutely does pay the bills and isn't a scam at all. Your first job proves that.

Your parents set you up financially for life. You are just choosing a different route to go now. 99% of the world doesn't get the opportunity that your parents gave you.

Do you hate your degree line of work because you dislike the actual work? Or is it because you attach the work to your parents and no matter what degree it could have been - you would hate it just because of your parents involvement. Or a combination of both?

And why didn't you just switch degree programs or take a year off in the middle of school. That's what I did. I started off going in the public relations route with an end goal of becoming an athletic director at the college level. But two years in I want digging my classes or the city I lived in. So I took six months off, moved to another college, and switched to a journalism degree.

[arnold layne]

I don't know man.

I just feel as though my parents feel they are entitled for me to do their own thing because they paid for my college education. When I talk to them over the phone, excited about how I am running my own store now, they seem less than thrilled and the discussion turns towards instigation and subtle jabs at my life.

It sucks. I don't even bother talking to them anymore.

But whatever. I make a decent amount of money and I pay for my own car insurance and whatever bills come my way.

I don't live on my own. I live with a relative.

It's not necessarily entirely my choice. It's just that it would be lonely living alone so I might as well stay here while I can, and I am encouraged to stay here too which I am happy about - unlike my parents, who wanted me to get the fuck out of the house and kept increasing rent over the months, belittling me, calling me lazy etc.

I'm content with my life.

The only complaints I have are that I suffer from depression, like I literally have no hobbies. When I don't work I sit around all day on this fuckin' forum and drink a lot of beer. And obviously my relationship status in life is less than to be desired. I don't have a girlfriend, which would be incredibly nice at the moment. It would be great to have someone to be intimate with and be able to connect on an intellectual level, but I will put that in God's hands.

There are choices I could have made that may have drastically changed my life. Would they have made me happier? Who knows, but I do know that I have a job right now that allows me to pay for a house (if I wanted it), and it's a job I like. And I do know that I am happy ignoring my parent's disapproval, and I am happier in this warmer climate.

My only worry is to see what's next. I don't know if I can do this job forever. I mean it pays well, but I'm 23 and having a lack of interest in other activities quite frankly scares me. Shit, if I lose this job I'll feel so fuckin' let down. It's basically all I have at the moment. All my friends are at home many miles away, obviously I haven't treated girls quite fairly recently I admit, and we already know about my parents.

So what's left? Basically just working. Saving up for Lord knows what, and walking around the park listening to music in the mean time.

Life will never be perfect. I can only hope to maintain a positive attitude and to learn from mistakes I have made, yet cherish every opportunity that comes my way.

[downzy]

Recovered!

Ughh... This has been covered numerous times on the forum... Most of this decline has to do with demographics and not necessarily a sign of an underperforming economy. If you extend the timeline back another 20 years, you'll notice that the work participation rate was similar throughout most of the 1970s and 1980s.

For a better explanation regarding this phenomenon, read this article: http://qz.com/286213/the-chart-obama-haters-love-most-and-the-truth-behind-it/

Here's the conclusion of the article:

Now, even if the US economy continues improving—as most expect—it doesn’t mean that labor-force participation will rebound. Rather, it’s likely to keep declining for at least the next 10 years, as the baby-boomers continue to age out of the workforce. (CBO estimates that labor force participation will be at 60.8% in 2024.)

Without another giant baby boom, it will most likely never to return to the peaks seen during the late 1990s, no matter what political party is in charge. As a measure of whether Americans who should be working are working, the employment-to-population ratio for people of prime working age is much more useful.

In other words, you should stop talking about labor-force participation.

[wasted]

LSD and greed really gets the job done.

[magisme]

Clearly downzy still believes there was/is a recovery. Oh well. He'll figure it out when we officially re-enter a recession in a year or so.

And just for the record, yes, he is actually saying that the percentage of 25+ college grads working doesn't matter.

[downzy]

Clearly downzy still believes there was/is a recovery. Oh well. He'll figure it out when we officially re-enter a recession in a year or so.

And just for the record, yes, he is actually saying that the percentage of 25+ college grads working doesn't matter.

We're eventually going to re-enter a recession. Economics are cyclical. Suggesting that I don't understand that basic concept is absurd.

The percentage of 25+ college grads working doesn't matter as much as you're implying as the workforce in its entirety is getting smaller. This isn't a phenomenon limited to college graduates; the entire workforce is shrinking as a result of the baby boomers retiring/dying in droves. Regardless of which category of people we're talking about, this is a product of demographic changes and not a sign of a weaker economy. Whether this trend has implications for the economy going forward, that's another matter, but it's not an ipso facto product of a struggling economy.

Again, the argument that the recovery did not positively effect everyone is a far better argument than the one you're making. On almost every metric save for the issue of wealth inequality and wage growth for the lower income earners the economy has recovered and grown since the downturn of 2008-2009. That's not debatable.

[magisme]

Except for the metrics that matter to the lives of most people, yes, the economy has recovered.

[magisme]

Considering the graph above, and considering that boomers are not in fact retiring in droves but that their demographic is the one where the percent employed has risen, albeit with low-wage, part-time work, is this good? Rhetorical question.

[downzy]

Considering the graph above, and considering that boomers are not in fact retiring in droves but that their demographic is the one where the percent employed has risen, albeit with low-wage, part-time work, is this good? Rhetorical question.

Where are you getting your figures? Most statistics indicate that baby boomers are retiring in greater numbers of late.

See here: http://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomers-are-retiring-2014-2

[classicrawker]

I don't know man.

I just feel as though my parents feel they are entitled for me to do their own thing because they paid for my college education. When I talk to them over the phone, excited about how I am running my own store now, they seem less than thrilled and the discussion turns towards instigation and subtle jabs at my life.

It sucks. I don't even bother talking to them anymore.

But whatever. I make a decent amount of money and I pay for my own car insurance and whatever bills come my way.

I don't live on my own. I live with a relative.

It's not necessarily entirely my choice. It's just that it would be lonely living alone so I might as well stay here while I can, and I am encouraged to stay here too which I am happy about - unlike my parents, who wanted me to get the fuck out of the house and kept increasing rent over the months, belittling me, calling me lazy etc.

I'm content with my life.

The only complaints I have are that I suffer from depression, like I literally have no hobbies. When I don't work I sit around all day on this fuckin' forum and drink a lot of beer. And obviously my relationship status in life is less than to be desired. I don't have a girlfriend, which would be incredibly nice at the moment. It would be great to have someone to be intimate with and be able to connect on an intellectual level, but I will put that in God's hands.

There are choices I could have made that may have drastically changed my life. Would they have made me happier? Who knows, but I do know that I have a job right now that allows me to pay for a house (if I wanted it), and it's a job I like. And I do know that I am happy ignoring my parent's disapproval, and I am happier in this warmer climate.

My only worry is to see what's next. I don't know if I can do this job forever. I mean it pays well, but I'm 23 and having a lack of interest in other activities quite frankly scares me. Shit, if I lose this job I'll feel so fuckin' let down. It's basically all I have at the moment. All my friends are at home many miles away, obviously I haven't treated girls quite fairly recently I admit, and we already know about my parents.

So what's left? Basically just working. Saving up for Lord knows what, and walking around the park listening to music in the mean time.

Life will never be perfect. I can only hope to maintain a positive attitude and to learn from mistakes I have made, yet cherish every opportunity that comes my way.

While you can't see it now your parents were doing you a favour by kicking you out of the nest Nate. Don't be too hard on them as they only want the best for you even if it seems like they are being negative right now. They are doing what any good parent would be doing, trying to get you to maximize your potential.

I am happy for you that you are doing something you enjoy, and I have no idea what kind of money you make, but find it hard to believe you are making more then you would be if you applied your degree.

It may seem good for now but some day when you want to own your own house, and maybe get married and have children, running a store most likely won't support your lifestyle. You can't lie with relatives forever.

I wish you luck and at this point I know nothing I or anyone on this forum can tell you that will solve your depression. Unfortunately that is something you will have to solve for yourself.

[arnold layne]

I don't know man.

I just feel as though my parents feel they are entitled for me to do their own thing because they paid for my college education. When I talk to them over the phone, excited about how I am running my own store now, they seem less than thrilled and the discussion turns towards instigation and subtle jabs at my life.

It sucks. I don't even bother talking to them anymore.

But whatever. I make a decent amount of money and I pay for my own car insurance and whatever bills come my way.

I don't live on my own. I live with a relative.

It's not necessarily entirely my choice. It's just that it would be lonely living alone so I might as well stay here while I can, and I am encouraged to stay here too which I am happy about - unlike my parents, who wanted me to get the fuck out of the house and kept increasing rent over the months, belittling me, calling me lazy etc.

I'm content with my life.

The only complaints I have are that I suffer from depression, like I literally have no hobbies. When I don't work I sit around all day on this fuckin' forum and drink a lot of beer. And obviously my relationship status in life is less than to be desired. I don't have a girlfriend, which would be incredibly nice at the moment. It would be great to have someone to be intimate with and be able to connect on an intellectual level, but I will put that in God's hands.

There are choices I could have made that may have drastically changed my life. Would they have made me happier? Who knows, but I do know that I have a job right now that allows me to pay for a house (if I wanted it), and it's a job I like. And I do know that I am happy ignoring my parent's disapproval, and I am happier in this warmer climate.

My only worry is to see what's next. I don't know if I can do this job forever. I mean it pays well, but I'm 23 and having a lack of interest in other activities quite frankly scares me. Shit, if I lose this job I'll feel so fuckin' let down. It's basically all I have at the moment. All my friends are at home many miles away, obviously I haven't treated girls quite fairly recently I admit, and we already know about my parents.

So what's left? Basically just working. Saving up for Lord knows what, and walking around the park listening to music in the mean time.

Life will never be perfect. I can only hope to maintain a positive attitude and to learn from mistakes I have made, yet cherish every opportunity that comes my way.

While you can't see it now your parents were doing you a favour by kicking you out of the nest Nate. Don't be too hard on them as they only want the best for you even if it seems like they are being negative right now. They are doing what any good parent would be doing, trying to get you to maximize your potential.

I am happy for you that you are doing something you enjoy, and I have no idea what kind of money you make, but find it hard to believe you are making more then you would be if you applied your degree.

It may seem good for now but some day when you want to own your own house, and maybe get married and have children, running a store most likely won't support your lifestyle. You can't lie with relatives forever.

I wish you luck and at this point I know nothing I or anyone on this forum can tell you that will solve your depression. Unfortunately that is something you will have to solve for yourself.

Am I the only one here who doesn't see the appeal of wasting away in a four bedroom house with two cars? I don't understand it. Someone tell me what I am missing because I fail to see how these things would make me a happier person.

So classicrawker, no, I don't want my own house. And marriage? Shit brother. I am 23 years old and I've never even had a relationship of any kind. I've failed to make friends all my life. That is the last thing on my fucking mind right now.

You are literally talking about things that have no luster to me whatsoever. Okay, yes maybe I'd like to have a girlfriend, but I'm not holding out on that at the moment. But a house? Hell fucking no man. What a waste of money. I don't want it. None of it. Shit. If I won a house I'd sell it because the fucking cost of keeping the fucking thing would cause a stroke.

Honestly, as trashy as this sounds, I'd be content living in a trailer. I know that sounds trashy and all, but who says a trailer needs to be trashy? It would be nice to have a quaint, single bedroom cabin, a single bath, a bar that holds enough liquor to kill Charlie Sheen, and enough room for a hot-tub and a pool table. Most of these things are highly affordable if I'm wise with my money. People try to pawn off shit all the time. Who needs new when used will do?

I just don't understand the capitalistic idea of buying shit to keep up with the neighbors. I don't give a flying fuck.

I've already made up my mind that when this car I'm driving breaks down, I'm buying a burner. I'll never buy a new car either. Insurance anyone? No fucking thank you.

Yes I am a penny pinching dirt bag. I used a cracked phone with a broken camera, I have a wardrobe of six t-shirts and three pairs of jeans, maybe six pairs of underwear.

Luxury has no appeal to me brother. I can get by running a gas station solo and I make enough to support myself, and that's all I really want.

Fuck man, I could start payments on a house now with this job if I wanted to because everything is so cheap down here, but like I said, I'd rather just save my money for the off chance that maybe someday I'll find something worth spending money on.

As for right now I'm just taking one day at at time.

[classicrawker]

I don't know man.

I just feel as though my parents feel they are entitled for me to do their own thing because they paid for my college education. When I talk to them over the phone, excited about how I am running my own store now, they seem less than thrilled and the discussion turns towards instigation and subtle jabs at my life.

It sucks. I don't even bother talking to them anymore.

But whatever. I make a decent amount of money and I pay for my own car insurance and whatever bills come my way.

I don't live on my own. I live with a relative.

It's not necessarily entirely my choice. It's just that it would be lonely living alone so I might as well stay here while I can, and I am encouraged to stay here too which I am happy about - unlike my parents, who wanted me to get the fuck out of the house and kept increasing rent over the months, belittling me, calling me lazy etc.

I'm content with my life.

The only complaints I have are that I suffer from depression, like I literally have no hobbies. When I don't work I sit around all day on this fuckin' forum and drink a lot of beer. And obviously my relationship status in life is less than to be desired. I don't have a girlfriend, which would be incredibly nice at the moment. It would be great to have someone to be intimate with and be able to connect on an intellectual level, but I will put that in God's hands.

There are choices I could have made that may have drastically changed my life. Would they have made me happier? Who knows, but I do know that I have a job right now that allows me to pay for a house (if I wanted it), and it's a job I like. And I do know that I am happy ignoring my parent's disapproval, and I am happier in this warmer climate.

My only worry is to see what's next. I don't know if I can do this job forever. I mean it pays well, but I'm 23 and having a lack of interest in other activities quite frankly scares me. Shit, if I lose this job I'll feel so fuckin' let down. It's basically all I have at the moment. All my friends are at home many miles away, obviously I haven't treated girls quite fairly recently I admit, and we already know about my parents.

So what's left? Basically just working. Saving up for Lord knows what, and walking around the park listening to music in the mean time.

Life will never be perfect. I can only hope to maintain a positive attitude and to learn from mistakes I have made, yet cherish every opportunity that comes my way.

While you can't see it now your parents were doing you a favour by kicking you out of the nest Nate. Don't be too hard on them as they only want the best for you even if it seems like they are being negative right now. They are doing what any good parent would be doing, trying to get you to maximize your potential.

I am happy for you that you are doing something you enjoy, and I have no idea what kind of money you make, but find it hard to believe you are making more then you would be if you applied your degree.

It may seem good for now but some day when you want to own your own house, and maybe get married and have children, running a store most likely won't support your lifestyle. You can't lie with relatives forever.

I wish you luck and at this point I know nothing I or anyone on this forum can tell you that will solve your depression. Unfortunately that is something you will have to solve for yourself.

Am I the only one here who doesn't see the appeal of wasting away in a four bedroom house with two cars? I don't understand it. Someone tell me what I am missing because I fail to see how these things would make me a happier person.

So classicrawker, no, I don't want my own house. And marriage? Shit brother. I am 23 years old and I've never even had a relationship of any kind. I've failed to make friends all my life. That is the last thing on my fucking mind right now.

You are literally talking about things that have no luster to me whatsoever. Okay, yes maybe I'd like to have a girlfriend, but I'm not holding out on that at the moment. But a house? Hell fucking no man. What a waste of money. I don't want it. None of it. Shit. If I won a house I'd sell it because the fucking cost of keeping the fucking thing would cause a stroke.

Honestly, as trashy as this sounds, I'd be content living in a trailer. I know that sounds trashy and all, but who says a trailer needs to be trashy? It would be nice to have a quaint, single bedroom cabin, a single bath, a bar that holds enough liquor to kill Charlie Sheen, and enough room for a hot-tub and a pool table. Most of these things are highly affordable if I'm wise with my money. People try to pawn off shit all the time. Who needs new when used will do?

I just don't understand the capitalistic idea of buying shit to keep up with the neighbors. I don't give a flying fuck.

I've already made up my mind that when this car I'm driving breaks down, I'm buying a burner. I'll never buy a new car either. Insurance anyone? No fucking thank you.

Yes I am a penny pinching dirt bag. I used a cracked phone with a broken camera, I have a wardrobe of six t-shirts and three pairs of jeans, maybe six pairs of underwear.

Luxury has no appeal to me brother. I can get by running a gas station solo and I make enough to support myself, and that's all I really want.

Fuck man, I could start payments on a house now with this job if I wanted to because everything is so cheap down here, but like I said, I'd rather just save my money for the off chance that maybe someday I'll find something worth spending money on.

As for right now I'm just taking one day at at time.

I am not judging you Nate and if you end up happy living in a trailer with just enough money to get by no one has the right to judge you as the important thing is you are happy.

My only point is that you are young and priorities can change as you get older. I hope you do find a significant other who has the same vision as you and is happy with the simple life but someday you just might meet the right person and want to start a family.

Then unfortunately money does become an issue. I have heard more than once that more marriages and/or relationship end because of money issues then any other issue. It may suck but money, or lack of it, does dictate lot of things in life.

[magisme]

Considering the graph above, and considering that boomers are not in fact retiring in droves but that their demographic is the one where the percent employed has risen, albeit with low-wage, part-time work, is this good? Rhetorical question.

Where are you getting your figures? Most statistics indicate that baby boomers are retiring in greater numbers of late.

See here: http://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomers-are-retiring-2014-2

Take a look at the top part of the chart, far right side - "annual growth rate," meaning, obviously, that positive numbers equal higher employment and lower equal the opposite. You'll see quite clearly that the growth rate starts with negative numbers for the youngest workers and stays negative until 55 years old (!!!), then it slowly but steadily crosses into positive and beyond as age increases, all the way up to 75+.

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_303.htm

[downzy]

Considering the graph above, and considering that boomers are not in fact retiring in droves but that their demographic is the one where the percent employed has risen, albeit with low-wage, part-time work, is this good? Rhetorical question.

Where are you getting your figures? Most statistics indicate that baby boomers are retiring in greater numbers of late.

See here: http://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomers-are-retiring-2014-2

Take a look at the top part of the chart, far right side - "annual growth rate," meaning, obviously, that positive numbers equal higher employment and lower equal the opposite. You'll see quite clearly that the growth rate starts with negative numbers for the youngest workers and stays negative until 55 years old (!!!), then it slowly but steadily crosses into positive and beyond as age increases, all the way up to 75+.

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_303.htm

Again, read this article: http://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomers-are-retiring-2014-2.

It's not a matter of growth in employment for those 55+, but rather, the fact that the 55+ cohort is growing in greater numbers relative to the rest of the population. The population is getting older, so naturally a greater percentage of the work force (and hence employment growth relative to other ages) is going to go up. But they're also going to be many who retire/die as well, bringing the overall participation rate down. You're treating each age cohort as equal in numbers when they're not.

Again, the article I posted above does a better job of sorting out the arithmetic. By and large it's a matter of demographics, but certainly, there is an element that the very poor of those entering into the 55+ cannot afford to retire and must work longer. I don't discount this trend. But it's wrong to point out a lower participation rate as a whole (or as a subset of the population) as proof that the economy is getting worse. Demographic changes were evident long before the recession of 2008/2009.

[magisme]

You're out of your fucking mind if you think it's only the very poor 55+ who can't afford to retire.

No shit 55+ is growing. No shit they're a greater percentage of the workforce. Younger workers with student loans they're going to default on don't give a shit. If their participation rate is either stagnant or decreasing, which it is, we're fucked.

[downzy]

You're out of your fucking mind if you think it's only the very poor 55+ who can't afford to retire.

No shit 55+ is growing. No shit they're a greater percentage of the workforce. Younger workers with student loans they're going to default on don't give a shit. If their participation rate is either stagnant or decreasing, which it is, we're fucked.

Not sure what you mean here. First, I was under the assumption that the entire point of your thread was to question the economic recovery. You point to a lower participation rate as proof, and I respond that this a reflection of the changing demographics, that it's been in decline for some time for reasons that have nothing to do with economic performance.

If you're argument is then that a lower participation rate is bad news, well, that's also debatable. The US labour participation rate from the 1950s to the mid 1970s fluctuated between 60 and 61 percent. Currently we're at 64 percent. The boost to participation rates between 1974 and now is mostly attributed to the boomers entering the workforce. In other words, the elevated participation rate was an aberration, not the norm. Participation rates can fall and have no negative effect on the near term economy if it can be explained by demographics (which, in this case, it is).

Going forward the risk becomes what to do with an aging population, but it's no certainty that we're fucked. First, the entitlement programs as they function now can always be adjusted, as has been done with social security. Second, countries like the United States, Canada, and several western European nations can counteract aging populations by increasing immigration numbers. There will be challenges, but I think the suggestion that it's all doom and gloom as unwarranted and premature.