US Economic Recovery

[wasted]

Time to start a war. Iran have been set up for the republicans to kick ass.

[magisme]

Fucked.

[wasted]

Just stay the course until one day you go to the cash machine and it swallows your card and says no more money.

Then we can storm the mansions of the plutocrats.

[Facekicker]

You're out of your fucking mind if you think it's only the very poor 55+ who can't afford to retire.

No shit 55+ is growing. No shit they're a greater percentage of the workforce. Younger workers with student loans they're going to default on don't give a shit. If their participation rate is either stagnant or decreasing, which it is, we're fucked.

Not sure what you mean here. First, I was under the assumption that the entire point of your thread was to question the economic recovery. You point to a lower participation rate as proof, and I respond that this a reflection of the changing demographics, that it's been in decline for some time for reasons that have nothing to do with economic performance.

If you're argument is then that a lower participation rate is bad news, well, that's also debatable. The US labour participation rate from the 1950s to the mid 1970s fluctuated between 60 and 61 percent. Currently we're at 64 percent. The boost to participation rates between 1974 and now is mostly attributed to the boomers entering the workforce. In other words, the elevated participation rate was an aberration, not the norm. Participation rates can fall and have no negative effect on the near term economy if it can be explained by demographics (which, in this case, it is).

Going forward the risk becomes what to do with an aging population, but it's no certainty that we're fucked. First, the entitlement programs as they function now can always be adjusted, as has been done with social security. Second, countries like the United States, Canada, and several western European nations can counteract aging populations by increasing immigration numbers. There will be challenges, but I think the suggestion that it's all doom and gloom as unwarranted and premature.

I can see that going down well.

[downzy]

You're out of your fucking mind if you think it's only the very poor 55+ who can't afford to retire.

No shit 55+ is growing. No shit they're a greater percentage of the workforce. Younger workers with student loans they're going to default on don't give a shit. If their participation rate is either stagnant or decreasing, which it is, we're fucked.

Not sure what you mean here. First, I was under the assumption that the entire point of your thread was to question the economic recovery. You point to a lower participation rate as proof, and I respond that this a reflection of the changing demographics, that it's been in decline for some time for reasons that have nothing to do with economic performance.

If you're argument is then that a lower participation rate is bad news, well, that's also debatable. The US labour participation rate from the 1950s to the mid 1970s fluctuated between 60 and 61 percent. Currently we're at 64 percent. The boost to participation rates between 1974 and now is mostly attributed to the boomers entering the workforce. In other words, the elevated participation rate was an aberration, not the norm. Participation rates can fall and have no negative effect on the near term economy if it can be explained by demographics (which, in this case, it is).

Going forward the risk becomes what to do with an aging population, but it's no certainty that we're fucked. First, the entitlement programs as they function now can always be adjusted, as has been done with social security. Second, countries like the United States, Canada, and several western European nations can counteract aging populations by increasing immigration numbers. There will be challenges, but I think the suggestion that it's all doom and gloom as unwarranted and premature.

I can see that going down well.

True. What's economically prudent may not be politically feasible.

[arnold layne]

Does anyone ever consider how much fast food drives the economy yet workers don't get paid jack fucking shit?

Menial jobs are menial, but when the middle class has enough actual income to spend - everyone wins.

[mrandyk]

Does anyone ever consider how much fast food drives the economy yet workers don't get paid jack fucking shit?

Menial jobs are menial, but when the middle class has enough actual income to spend - everyone wins.

Same case with Walmart. Another organization that could easily afford to pay their employees a decent wage but simply don't have to.

[wasted]

Does anyone ever consider how much fast food drives the economy yet workers don't get paid jack fucking shit?

Menial jobs are menial, but when the middle class has enough actual income to spend - everyone wins.

Plutocrats want to get rid of the middle class and have everyone living on technology and 7-11 burritos.

Fast food is like the model. Hey we can just selling them waste products back to them.

The biggest trick is making people think they have a great lifestyle while eating McDonald's on welfare. So no one riots.

By outsourcing jobs and brainwashing people until they live a plastic life you can make more profits and there will be no one to threaten those in the elite 5%. Education levels will drop because no one needs to know much.

The US is just becoming like the rest of the world really. The elite protected by the military.

Even iPads are made in east Asia but the profits go to small elite group in the US. Not middle class skilled workers in the US.

So in the next 10 years kids who want to join the 5% need to go to brand name school like Harvard and stats related subject. Anything to help the elite legally steal money. And there's no other option. The rest will just be like herd of cattle subsisting on processed foods and sugar water until they are too sick and then start taking meds.

[AxlisOld]

Does anyone ever consider how much fast food drives the economy yet workers don't get paid jack fucking shit?

Menial jobs are menial, but when the middle class has enough actual income to spend - everyone wins.

Same case with Walmart. Another organization that could easily afford to pay their employees a decent wage but simply don't have to.

And people don't have to fucking work there, it's called capitalism, and it works.

Only jobs are at Wal Mart where you live? Fucking move.

Sick of people shitting on Wal Mart. They provide exactly what people want, cheap goods. "Oh but it's all cheap Chinese crap." Check the Mainstays labels. Wal Marts house brand has tons of stuff made in USA. Dont blame corporations, blame our busted tax system that fucks domestic production.

[downzy]

Does anyone ever consider how much fast food drives the economy yet workers don't get paid jack fucking shit?

Menial jobs are menial, but when the middle class has enough actual income to spend - everyone wins.

Same case with Walmart. Another organization that could easily afford to pay their employees a decent wage but simply don't have to.

And people don't have to fucking work there, it's called capitalism, and it works.

Only jobs are at Wal Mart where you live? Fucking move.

Sick of people shitting on Wal Mart. They provide exactly what people want, cheap goods. "Oh but it's all cheap Chinese crap." Check the Mainstays labels. Wal Marts house brand has tons of stuff made in USA. Dont blame corporations, blame our busted tax system that fucks domestic production.

Do you honestly believe that were various governments, state and federal, eliminate manufacturing taxes that jobs would return from Asia to the U.S.?

Apple makes almost everything in Asia. It has around $160 billion in offshore cash, with another $20 billion domestically. And you think that were U.S. taxes brought down to nothing that they'd suddenly move production of iPhones to the U.S.?

It's not a matter of giving corporations more money through tax breaks that will prompt a return to U.S. manufacturing. American workers are never going to compete on wages.

Capitalism doesn't work when the few own most.

As for Walmart, I defer to Maher on this one:

[wasted]

The world is being run by psychopaths.

[magisme]

Let's stop calling it capitalism. When the governments of the world step in with trillions of dollars to save the "free market," well, it's no longer a free market and it's no longer capitalism. Not that it ever was, really.

[wasted]

It's not a democracy, it's a plutocracy.

[AxlisOld]

Does anyone ever consider how much fast food drives the economy yet workers don't get paid jack fucking shit?

Menial jobs are menial, but when the middle class has enough actual income to spend - everyone wins.

Same case with Walmart. Another organization that could easily afford to pay their employees a decent wage but simply don't have to.

And people don't have to fucking work there, it's called capitalism, and it works.

Only jobs are at Wal Mart where you live? Fucking move.

Sick of people shitting on Wal Mart. They provide exactly what people want, cheap goods. "Oh but it's all cheap Chinese crap." Check the Mainstays labels. Wal Marts house brand has tons of stuff made in USA. Dont blame corporations, blame our busted tax system that fucks domestic production.

Do you honestly believe that were various governments, state and federal, eliminate manufacturing taxes that jobs would return from Asia to the U.S.?

Apple makes almost everything in Asia. It has around $160 billion in offshore cash, with another $20 billion domestically. And you think that were U.S. taxes brought down to nothing that they'd suddenly move production of iPhones to the U.S.?

It's not a matter of giving corporations more money through tax breaks that will prompt a return to U.S. manufacturing. American workers are never going to compete on wages.

Capitalism doesn't work when the few own most.

As for Walmart, I defer to Maher on this one:

Yes, I do believe it will bring some jobs back. Some. American (union) workers need to realize they aren't worth what they think they are, Asian workers will eventually realize they're worth more. I believe the gap will get smaller between the two, and we dont need extra tax incentives to keep manufacturing out and the gap wide.

[wasted]

Asian workers get like 1 dollar a day.

[magisme]

If the Chinese get a raise, they'll go to Indonesia. If India gets a raise, Pakistan. No Pakistan? Phillipenes. No Phillipenes? Guam. And on and on and on until the big reset.

[AxlisOld]

I still think that when Americans finally realize that pressing a button in a factory or putting in a bolt on in an assembly line isn't worth 20 bucks an hour, it will become more appealing to manufacture here.

[downzy]

I still think that when Americans finally realize that pressing a button in a factory or putting in a bolt on in an assembly line isn't worth 20 bucks an hour, it will become more appealing to manufacture here.

http://www.nwpc.dole.gov.ph/pages/statistics/stat_comparative.html

There's what you're competing against if wage is the deciding factor. Most of the countries listed see minimum wages at a couple bucks a day, never mind an hour. You think the U.S. can compete with that?

Also, you're not considering the costs of living in the U.S. versus Asian countries. Sure, we could make all manufacturing jobs $6 an hour, but nobody would be able to afford to live on that.

[AxlisOld]

I still think that when Americans finally realize that pressing a button in a factory or putting in a bolt on in an assembly line isn't worth 20 bucks an hour, it will become more appealing to manufacture here.

http://www.nwpc.dole.gov.ph/pages/statistics/stat_comparative.html

There's what you're competing against if wage is the deciding factor. Most of the countries listed see minimum wages at a couple bucks a day, never mind an hour. You think the U.S. can compete with that?

Also, you're not considering the costs of living in the U.S. versus Asian countries. Sure, we could make all manufacturing jobs $6 an hour, but nobody would be able to afford to live on that.

Of course I take cost of living into account, we have a federal minimum wage over 6 dollars anyway, it just seems that everyone thinks they deserve the 20 an hour even if they deserve 10.

American manufacturing will never rebound to 50's levels, but we have some room to come back.

[wasted]

Without 20 dollars an hour that's no middle class which is the American Dream. Chinas middle class is growing and their need for oil. Doesn't take a genius to work out where this is going. Chimerica. US will have to sell China Texas to pay off the 3 tril they owe.

[magisme]

Even money that Q1 GDP gets revised to negative. Recession comin'. Good thing we recovered so strongly.

[Facekicker]

A healthy economy wouldn't have 6000 store closures this year.

[magisme]

A healthy economy wouldn't have 6000 store closures this year.

No worries. Just plumbing.

[magisme]

Retiring in droves?

[AxlisOld]

Goddamn selfish baby boomers. Get the fuck out of the workforce and let some new people get good jobs.