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Last full album you listened to?


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4 hours ago, Dazey said:

Amazing album! Fun fact. My original screen name on here was Farewellandgoodnight after the song of the same name on the album. Problem was that for whatever reason (maybe it was a character limit back in 2002) when I actually saved the account it cut it down to Farewellandgoodnig and I was promptly branded a racist. :lol: 

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:lol:

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27 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

8 songs off of Help were written over a weekend.  I find that mind blowing.

Why? The best songs are usually written in less than 15 minutes, ask any songwriter. 

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3 hours ago, EvanG said:

Nice one, still one of my favourite Pumpkins records and all-time favourites in general. It explores all their facets and probably the only record with more input from James and D'arcy on it. Farewell and Goodnight is great because James wrote it and has all of them singing lead on it, even Jimmy!

Sweet - Ill have to look more into who contributed what. I thought that was Jimmy singing! What about for D'arcy elsewhere on the album? I know that James plays the solo on Zero, which is incredible. Thats actually a killer rhythm guitar by Billy there too imho. Almost Hatfield in nature, which I think is cool.

Ill be listening to it a lot for the next bit. So many amazing tunes one after the other that at the end I probably forget about half the jams. I cant think of enjoying romance songs as much as I am Thirty Three and By Starlight. But its still cool to have them washed away by the XYUs :headbang:

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Just now, soon said:

Sweet - Ill have to look more into who contributed what. I thought that was Jimmy singing! What about for D'arcy elsewhere on the album? I know that James plays the solo on Zero, which is incredible. Thats actually a killer rhythm guitar by Billy there too imho. Almost Hatfield in nature, which I think is cool.

Ill be listening to it a lot for the next bit. So many amazing tunes one after the other that at the end I probably forget about half the jams. I cant think of enjoying romance songs as much as I am Thirty Three and By Starlight. But its still cool to have them washed away by the XYUs :headbang:

She did a lot of background vocals from what I understand, but they only kept her vocals on Farewell And Goodnight and Beautiful. But when it comes down to her bass parts, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the only record that has several songs with her playing on it, maybe even on most of them? I don't know.

The riff during the solo on Zero is amazing, instead of just playing the octave chord riff as he does during the rest of the song, he mixes it up with this killer riff on the E and A string. I bought the official Mellon Collie TAB book back in the day and learned to play all those songs, awesome stuff. 

The crazy thing is that there are so many B-sides that are killer too off of the Mellon Collie singles. They were all released on The Aeroplane Flies High in 1996.

Ugly, Pennies, Rotten Apples, Blank, Marquis In Spades, that's A-side material in my opinion.

 

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17 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Why? The best songs are usually written in less than 15 minutes, ask any songwriter. 

Because regardless of the fact that the best songs are written in the least time its rare that a band write 8 of the best over a weekend.  And they weren’t just written and Chinese Democracied for the next 15 years, they were recorded and out there in just over a month.

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2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Because regardless of the fact that the best songs are written in the least time its rare that a band write 8 of the best over a weekend.  And they weren’t just written and Chinese Democracied for the next 15 years, they were recorded and out there in just over a month.

I don't know, when you've got two gifted songwriters at the peak of their creativity and with the right work ethic, I don't think it's that mind-blowing that they would come up with a bunch of really good songs in just a couple of days, especially songs that simple. Not saying it's not very impressive, though!

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5 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I don't know, when you've got two gifted songwriters at the peak of their creativity and with the right work ethic, I don't think it's that mind-blowing that they would come up with a bunch of really good songs in just a couple of days, especially songs that simple. Not saying it's not very impressive, though!

Very impressive, mind-blowing, take your pick :lol: 

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3 hours ago, EvanG said:

Hmm... maybe I should give it a few more spins. I liked Backspacer, but nothing compares to their 90's records in my opinion.

It grew on me after a few listens.

Of course; Ten notwithstanding how would you rank the rest of their 90s releases?

Beatles For Sale by The Beatles.

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1 minute ago, ChineseDemocracy2004 said:

It grew on me after a few listens.

Of course; Ten notwithstanding how would you rank the rest of their 90s releases?

Beatles For Sale by The Beatles.

I'm actually one of those people who doesn't think Ten is their best. There are great songs on it but the band became more interesting to me when they evolved towards a more alternative/garage rock sound like you can hear on Vs., which is still my favourite record by them. I didn't listen a lot to Vitalogy and No Code back in the day (although it has great songs on it) but with Yield they won me over again. I should give Vitalogy and No Code a listen again, just like Gigaton.

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1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

8 songs off of Help were written over a weekend.  I find that mind blowing.

Kinda puts Chinese Democracy into perspective, doesn't it? 14 years and fucking Scraped is the best ya got? Macca farts more tuneful ditties than that!

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10 minutes ago, Towelie said:

Kinda puts Chinese Democracy into perspective, doesn't it? 14 years and fucking Scraped is the best ya got? Macca farts more tuneful ditties than that!

The Chi Dem stat that kills me is that Jimi Hendrixes entire guitar playing life, from aged 15 when he took it up to when he died is how long it took to make Chi Dem.

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59 minutes ago, soon said:

But its still cool to have them washed away by the XYUs :headbang:

I probably can't post this video because of copyrights, but if you like XYU you should watch the live in Düsseldorf 1996 version on YouTube. (the entire show is great by the way, plus D'arcy is hot) They were on fire and the best band on the planet for a brief moment at that time.

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Blonde on Blonde, Dylan

Goats Head Soup, Stones

It's Only Rock 'n Roll, Stones

2 hours ago, EvanG said:

I don't know, when you've got two gifted songwriters at the peak of their creativity and with the right work ethic, I don't think it's that mind-blowing that they would come up with a bunch of really good songs in just a couple of days, especially songs that simple. Not saying it's not very impressive, though!

The Beatles stuff is far from simple. 

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2 hours ago, EvanG said:

Right, on those early albums there is some real prog stuff going on.

Those early albums had a lot of little things going on that distinguished them from just your ordinary straightforward pop.  They were baby steps of progression to be sure but progress nonetheless.  Even very early on, look at something like Happy Just to Dance With You in terms of how its played on guitar, or Babys in Black, thats like a waltz.  They were getting some odd chords in there too.  They had a really unique musical dynamic, underrated really, as musicians, Lennon was an incredible rhythm player if you look into what he does with it, really driving and powerful.  Just because something isn't overtly elaborate isn't the same thing as it being simple, it just means the devils in the detail.  

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2 hours ago, EvanG said:

Right, on those early albums there is some real prog stuff going on.

You clearly don't know much about music if you think a bunch of prog masturbation is the height of complexity.

As Bob Dylan said, "they (The Beatles) were doing things nobody was doing. Their chords were outrageous, just outrageous, and their harmonies made it all valid ...". Take that jangly chord which opens ''A Hard Day's Night'' for instance. 

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34 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Those early albums had a lot of little things going on that distinguished them from just your ordinary straightforward pop.  They were baby steps of progression to be sure but progress nonetheless.  Even very early on, look at something like Happy Just to Dance With You in terms of how its played on guitar, or Babys in Black, thats like a waltz.  They were getting some odd chords in there too.  They had a really unique musical dynamic, underrated really, as musicians, Lennon was an incredible rhythm player if you look into what he does with it, really driving and powerful.  Just because something isn't overtly elaborate isn't the same thing as it being simple, it just means the devils in the detail.  

Of course there are exceptions, they have a lot of songs and they experimented a lot, but most of their songs are from a musical perspective definitely rather ''simple''. And that's not a bad thing, they were brilliant at it.

15 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You clearly don't know much about music 

I'm pretty sure I know more about music than you of all people.

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3 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Of course there are exceptions, they have a lot of songs and they experimented a lot, but most of their songs are from a musical perspective definitely rather ''simple''. And that's not a bad thing, they were brilliant at it.

I'm pretty sure I know more about music than you of all people.

How on earth would you know a thing like that?

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Of course there are exceptions, they have a lot of songs and they experimented a lot, but most of their songs are from a musical perspective definitely rather ''simple''. And that's not a bad thing, they were brilliant at it.

Really, all popular music is pretty simple.  Its just depends on how you define these terms.

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37 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Really, all popular music is pretty simple.  Its just depends on how you define these terms.

For sure, most pop/rock stuff is relatively simplistic, that is partly why it appeals to many people. Compared to some other bands The Beatles were a lot more interesting from a musical point of view, I don't disagree with that. You don't have to be a classically trained musician to understand this, but I actually studied stuff like this believe it or not. And when I look at the music theory behind a lot of their songs, I don't see much complexity. To stay with your example, using odd chords (whatever one would consider ''odd'' chords) or because you think Lennon is a great rhythm guitarist, doesn't make them complexed. A lot of people who pick up an instrument start with The Beatles because a) a lot of them are relatively simple, and b) they are really great. I feel like saying that a lot of their songs are simplistic is somehow a bad thing, but it's not. 

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There is actually a tremendous amount of sophistication in The Beatles' music, their use of harmonies and ''wandering'' chord changes. Proof of that fact is that very few cover bands can actually play their songs correctly - covers with incorrect ''transplanted chords'' is notorious among Beatles cover bands. I remember a member of The Bootleg Beatles describing how they had to learn them themselves, by ear, analysing their hand positions on the fret board from old footage, because the sheet music/tab in books and on the internet was basically all wrong

Multiple, slightly anal and academic, books and articles have been written on the sophistry of The Beatles' music, of which this will give you a glimpse: http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/VOLUME03/Words_and_chords.shtml

PS

It is often said that Lennon-McCartney were ''the greatest songwriters since Schubert''. Certainly McCartney was a terrific melodist. McCartney broke away from the standard rock melody which is actually very primitive and staccato (try and hum ''Purple Haze''), to produce melodies that were very pleasing and sometimes achingly beautiful: ''Yesterdays'', ''All Your Loving'' (imagine if it was played solo by say a cello), ''For No One'', etc etc. Few can compete with McCartney as a melodist, whereas Lennon, for although more grounded in rock rhythm, could produce the odd corker also. 

For me, the most revolutionary song in their entire discography is not ''Tomorrow Never Knows'', ''A Day in the Life'', ''Strawberry Fields'' etc., but ''From Me To You''. ''From Me To You'' commences as a standard rock-pop song - all very pleasing but nothing particularly special - until you arrive at the bridge: ''I got arms that...''. Whoosh!!  Music history has changed, seismically!! 

In that one moment you have left the era of Elvis and entered the era of The Beatles, left the 1950s and entered the 1960s - the 1960s didn't really begin until 1963.

Whatever possessed them to introduce such a chord pattern in the bridge was genius.

There are other examples also on this clutter of early recordings (1963-4), chords and chord changes which just threw everyone - and still surprise today. Wandering melodies which enter unsuspected byways.

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12 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

You clearly don't know much about music if you think a bunch of prog masturbation is the height of complexity.

As Bob Dylan said, "they (The Beatles) were doing things nobody was doing. Their chords were outrageous, just outrageous, and their harmonies made it all valid ...". Take that jangly chord which opens ''A Hard Day's Night'' for instance. 

Dylan was playing solely cowboy chords when he first heard the beatles. And the folk revival was about first position chords ( for one, for ease of use on group singalong) 

and if Dylan said that of the Beatles he had most certainly overlooked the previous generations pop music. Stuff like Gershwin. George Gershwin actually studied counterpoint under one of the greats of his time in an academic setting. But ohh, aww, the Beatles did two and gasp sometimes three part harmony?!? No one ever thought of that before, lol. 

And lets get to those “complex” chords. In a time, standing on the shoulders of jazz being the preceding pop music, the Beatles were no comparison. 

The complexity of a chord is entirely dependant on what comes before and after it. What are the harmonic and tonal structured created by the phrase of chords?

in the Beatles case the harmonic and tonal structures are not all that complicated and tend to resolve themselves as quickly as any other pop rock of the day - and way quicker than the jazz that came before it. Jazz likes to see how long it can go without resolving to the tonic. Hard days night plays the chord that resolved to the tonic as the one chord intro! Lol. It resolved immediately haha

Hard Days Night does not have complex chords nor structure. It’s actually the same cowboy chords, in the same order, as 80% of all guitar songs. They open with - to my ears  - a G7sus4 which is a chord that exists to lead into the tonic (the root chord) which is G. The chord serves this function because our ears want to hear the 8 and the 5 - a simple power chord used by symphonic composers, cowboys and all rock. to my ears, going by memory, I think that the chords and melody in Wonderful Wolrd form the value of a 7sus4 chord right before the first verse too. It’s what the chord does, lead into the root note. (Also to my ears they play it as a simple bare chord - basically a metal head chord with one finger moved up a single string)

the only thing mildly interesting chord wise is that there is a high G note used as a pedal tones (drone note that plays continuously). So as they play various cowboy chords which could also form a guns ballad, they have that pedal tone going over top of the chords. This in turn means that what is other wise a basic C chord might find itself expressed as a Cadd9 in some versions or  G/C in another version. But that’s just because of the root note pedal tone. 

And pedal tones in rock come from the original players. Think the piano clanging away on a pedal tone on Jonny B Goodes verses (and later Raw Power by the Stooges.)

 

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