Broskirose Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Do you think Axl is at his best writing on his own or with a partner like Izzy or Paul? When you look at the songs he's written on his own it seems like they're either the really good tracks or the really bad ones. He has soul writing credit on Estranged and November Rain which are two of the best GNR songs, but then you see he came up with Shotgun Blues and Breakdown on his lonesome as well. Seems like he's really hit or miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallFlagg Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) Very capable but a guy being able to imagine the accompanying instruments (not just relying on putting a piano or synth everywhere) vs a guy who can play or at least do a decent hack at guitar, bass, drums, is the better option at the helm and this might be Axl's problem with productivity and not trusting others around him enough to explore concepts and structures to bring back to him or bounce off him for GNR. Edited June 11, 2014 by RandallFlagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spirit Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 You haveOne in a MillionNovember RainDead HorseShotgun BluesBreakdownEstrangedMy World andThis I LoveThat's not too many songs actually, but IMO the majority of these are really good songs. Shotgun Blues and My World are the weaker ones.Izzy and Axl seem to have some inexplicable chemistry which often result in greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallFlagg Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Like Estranged and NR were brilliant at the core of them but Slash came up with the epic solos, even if it was at Axl's direction, the band filled in the rest of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotsfired cro Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 you guys didn't watch making the fucking videos back in the day, did you?the fact Axl is solo credited doesn't mean he did the songs the way you hear them.check out what he says about Slash and Estranged. it doesn't take genious to figure out guitar made Estranged, Dead horse, Breakdown...what they are.Guitar, piano and DRUMS made November rain what is was.Go figure, none of the post Illusions songs would have made any of the first 4 albums, objectivly.So where is Ax's greatness gone!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin White Duke Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Axl is alright. Not a mind-blowing genius but has composed some decent stuff. Still, I think he is better when stimulated or "helped" by others than by his own. Just personal preference I guess.And Breakdown is a good song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spirit Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 you guys didn't watch making the fucking videos back in the day, did you?the fact Axl is solo credited doesn't mean he did the songs the way you hear them.check out what he says about Slash and Estranged. it doesn't take genious to figure out guitar made Estranged, Dead horse, Breakdown...what they are.Guitar, piano and DRUMS made November rain what is was.Go figure, none of the post Illusions songs would have made any of the first 4 albums, objectivly.So where is Ax's greatness gone!?Of course Axl didn't write every single guitar lick or bass line in the songs he's credited for. If he was, there wouldn't have been the need of a band. If he was capable, Axl would be the hard rock equivalent of Trent Reznor.The fact is that Axl wrote the melody and lyrics for these songs, which gives him songwriting credits. Take away the bass, guitar (not in Dead Horse, Axl wrote that riff) and drums, and you'll still hear the same song. Not the exact same way, but the melody and words are there.I believe the question was if his songwriting skills are good enough on his own or better with a partner, and I believe Izzy might be his best songwriting pal. November Rain and Estranged are arguably two of GN'R greatest songs, but there are others up there with them which Axl wrote together with someone. Coma with Slash is a contender for all-time best song.This is not to take away all the great work done by Slash, Duff, Matt, Finck etc. They did more to the songs Axl wrote, but the groundwork was done by one man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-GenerationX Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 'Estranged' is awesome, but what is is without the guitar parts? We've all heard that original instrumental piano demo. Slash got jobbed on a writing credit, in my view. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Axl is a good songwriter. Not mediocre, not a genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) I would say he is a good songwriter however I think that his songs are elevated to something better with other musicians like Slash coming up with their own parts to those song ideas. Estranged being the glaring obvious example of this Edited June 11, 2014 by WhazUp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 'Estranged' is awesome, but what is is without the guitar parts? We've all heard that original instrumental piano demo. Slash got jobbed on a writing credit, in my view. I prefer it without guitar tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spirit Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 'Estranged' is awesome, but what is is without the guitar parts? We've all heard that original instrumental piano demo.Slash got jobbed on a writing credit, in my view.It's borderline credit yes. I believe that's why Axl thanked Slash especially on that song.The guitar parts from the final version is so defining of how we're used to hear that song. Still, if you listen to the piano demo, the chord progression throughout the whole song is there, written by Axl. Slash came in afterwards and did his magic on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallFlagg Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Slash should've been co-writer imo, his leads make the songs in addition to Axl's lyrics, melody and vision. Yes, someone else could've come in and done a great job, look at CD's results but would Estranged and NR be as iconic? Who knows. No one could've replaced Axl but a voice is a lot more difficult to mould around if it's as unique as Axl's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NGOG Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 'Estranged' is awesome, but what is is without the guitar parts? We've all heard that original instrumental piano demo.We have, and it's absolutely beautiful in its own right.It isn't my place to declare Axl a good writer. But what I can say, is that no other musician has tapped into my imagination in quite the same way. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallFlagg Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 It would've gone further against the nature of GNR, well we've had one record in 15+years anyway, but I was disappointed Axl didn't seem to pick up any other instruments, like he wouldn't have had to play them consistently live but he might've got farther along if he learned some guitar or drums, christ knows he had the time and resources to branch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyman Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 He has soul writing credit on Estranged and November Rain which are two of the best GNR songs, but then you see he came up with Shotgun Blues and Breakdown on his lonesome as well. Seems like he's really hit or miss.Hmmm....he really put his soul into it then?#assholepost #grammarpolice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowmass Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Together Axl n Slash were gold. Seperate- they are "ok". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnold layne Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I don't think so. It is clear Izzy was Gn'R.November Rain sucks ass. No wonder Stephanie left or whateverthefuckhername was. Axl should have given up his man-card right then and now. But never fear, that officially happened with This I Love. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45miles Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I like most of the Axl-on-his-own songs--I'm especially fond of Dead Horse and Estranged, but I agree that Axl and Izzy were a great combo. If they had continued writing together, I think they could have had a catalog somewhat comparable to Lennon/McCartney.I don't think so. It is clear Izzy was Gn'R.November Rain sucks ass. No wonder Stephanie left or whateverthefuckhername was. Axl should have given up his man-card right then and now. But never fear, that officially happened with This I Love.If his man-card would have been revoked for writing piano ballads, wouldn't he have just gotten it right back for all the girls that it got him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 i think axl is a good songwriter, but like every good writer he make mishaps and fuck ups along the way. i think sometimes even the best writers need someone to lend a helping hand and a pair of critical eyes to look things over. it would have been great to have someone tell axl that the breakdown chorus was awful as was the ending bit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Go figure, none of the post Illusions songs would have made any of the first 4 albums, objectivly When did your subjective opinion become objective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Yesterdays-Civil-War Posted June 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2014 I think Axl is one of the greatest of all time actually. It's clear that he is better with the old group, however. I'd be curious to know who wrote which lines of particular songs. What I've always liked about Axl's writing is that I can relate. The fucked up childhood, the unrequited love, the depression, the anguish, the suicidal thoughts, the middle finger to the world and the rugged individualism. When Ax puts words to paper, I feel like he is taking pages out of my book."Don't hail me, An don't idolize the ink, Or I've failed in my intentions, Can you find the missing link, Your only validation is living your own life, Vicarious existence is a fucking waste of time." - Don't Damn MeI think what makes Dead Horse so great is when the tape rewinds at the very end of the song, it instantly puts more power into "Sick of this life, Not that you'd care, I'm not the only one, With whom these feelings I share.""There were always ample warnings, There were always subtle signs, And you would have seen it comin', But we gave you too much time." & "But I'm still out here waiting, Watching reruns of my life, When you reach the point of breaking, 'Know it's gonna take some time, To heal the broken memories that another man would need, Just to survive." - Coma"By a parlor trick or some words of wit, A hidden hand up a sleeve to think, That the one you love could hurt you know, Is a little hard to believe, But everybody darlin' sometimes bites the hand that feeds." & "But if someone really cared, Well they'd take the time to spare, A moment to try and understand another one's despair, Remember in this game we call life, That no one said it's fair." - Breakdown"I bought me an illusion, 'An I put in on the wall, I let it fill my head with dreams, And I had to have them all, But oh the taste is never so sweet as what you'd believe it is, Well I guess it never is, It's these prejudiced illusions that pump the blood to the heart of the biz." & "Sweetness is a virtue, And you lost your virtue long ago, You know I'd like to hurt you, But my conscience always tells me no, You could sell your body on the street, To anyone whom you might meet, Who'd love to try and get inside, And bust your innocence open wide." - Locomotive"Young at heart, and it gets so hard to wait, When no one I know can seem to help me now, Old at heart, but I mustn't hesitate, If I'm to find my own way out." & "Now that you've been broken down, Got your head out of the clouds, You're back down on the ground, And you don't talk so loud, An you don't walk so proud, Anymore, and what for." & "I knew the storm was getting closer, And all my friends said I was high, But everything we've ever known's here, I never wanted it to die." - EstrangedI prefer to think Axl's creative peak was around the time of CD's initial recording and that maybe the best is yet to come. I know CD gets a lot of flak for TIL, CD, ITW, but there are some really good lyrics on the record. They are just different. I find CD lyrics to be more "beautiful" and definitely more mature. These are all definitely written by a man in his late 30's."The hardest part, This troubled heart, Has never yet been through now, Was heal the scars, That got their start, Inside someone like you now." (And to be honest I think this is genius as it continues all the way to the chorus). & "So bittersweet, This tragedy, Won't ask for absolution, This melody, Inside of me, Still searches for a solution, A twist of faith, A change of heart, Cures my infatuation, A broken heart, Provides the spark, For my determination." - Better"I was the one who gave you everything, The one who took the fall, You were the one who would do anything, The one who can't recall." & "If I could go back in time, To the place in my soul, There all alone, Lonely teardrops, Are callin' you." - There Was a Time"I told you when I found you, If there were doubts you, Should be careful and unafraid, Now they surround you, And all that amounts to, Is love that you've crippled for fortune and fame." - Prostitute I could never quite understand the stigma of how Axl was a bad songwriter, because I've yet to find one who is better. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 He used to be a great songwriter / lyricist.Coma, Locomotive, November Rain & Estranged all have amazing lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Depends what you mean by good. He's good in that he can make passable songs, even some good ones but like, enough to carry a good band or a great band on his own? No, unfortunately not. He's good and he has a good ear for music but he needs the counter-balance of someone like an Izzy to bounce off, on his own he ain't all that.A big part of the problem is, in terms of lyrically at least, he doesn't really have anything interesting to say or a particularly original perspective. I mean what pulled Appetite off in that regard was that it felt so real and authentic but he wasn't saying anything new or different and after that, from Illusions through to Chi Dem, it's just like an Axl journal predominantly, which isn't ever such a bad thing for an artist it's just that he doesn't appear to have anything really interesting to say, it's a lot of very remote self involved stuff and it kinda sucks the joy out of the music. He just seems to like, pull of his version of certain archetypes, be it Industrial or...y'know, whatever genre. Which again isn't such a bad thing, The Clash did that very same thing...the difference is that it just appears to be a bunch of musicians trying to pull off an idea that they've been presented with, as opposed to it being the result of any kind of natural synergy between a bunch of musicians where they just kinda sat down and jammed and happened upon like, i dunno, a funk track or something. As a result it comes across as kinda forced.I could never quite understand the stigma of how Axl was a bad songwriter, because I've yet to find one who is better.John Lennon, Joe Strummer, Harry Nilsson, Bob Dylan, Tom Waits...in the field of like, 'big names', in terms of songwriter, Axl is somewhere near the bottom for me.Out of interest though, what about the lyrics you posted make you think that they are evidence of Axl being an exceptional songwriter? Seemed kinda trite to me, just sayin'. Edited June 12, 2014 by sugaraylen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 He needs a Stradlin or a Slash. Left to his own devices, Axl produces masturbation. Give him a greasy blues player and you get gold. Even on his solo songs this is true (just imagine Estranged without those Slash guitar lines). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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