Gary Oldman coming under fire for comments to Playboy Magazine

[jekylhyde]

He's right, more or less.

And with Baldwin, Gibson and with a lot of people actually, when you say the word "fag", "jew" or "hooray for tolerance!", you aren't angry at those groups of people. You're probably just angry and unfortunately that anger comes out in a form derogatory words. You feel crappy on the inside and you want to express it and push it out of you in an equally crappy way. It's not exactly right or wrong, it just is. It's part of our nature. Of course we should always try to restrain ourselves and be civil. But if a person calls someone else "a fag" in a moment of anger, we shouldn't automatically assume the person hates gays. Sometimes we can refrain from judging and stop to think about is there something bad going on in that person's life and can we somehow help them to get rid of that anger. Because being angry all the time is a cry for help.

If, in your anger, you have to resort to derogatory, racial, incentive, or hateful comments or words, yeah, there's a problem with that and those committing those mistakes should be called out for it. Using anger as an excuse is ridiculous. Many people are quite capable of expressing anger, frustration, or criticisms without resorting to derogatory language.

Anger is a natural human emotion. How one deals with that emotion is a measure of who we are as a person. Sorry, but when people use stereotypes or incentive language to communicate that anger they should be reprimanded. It shouldn't be accepted. That isn't to say that people don't make mistakes. We've all said stuff that we regret. Sometimes the regret is instant, other times it takes a little bit of time once the anger dissipates. And the right thing to do in those cases is to apologize. But there are expressions and utterances that are too loaded to walk back from. The N word is one. The F word (relating to a member of the LGBT community) is becoming one.

There's no doubt that many of Hollywood's elite is from the Jewish faith. But does Oldman help Gibson's cause by saying that we've all said racist things? I don't know, that seems like a bit of a reach to me.

Of course, you should apologize it you say something stupid. And the less you use those words, the better. But people make mistakes and many times other people are a little too quick to judge those people.

People make mistakes, but not all mistakes involve racial or religious bigotry. Everyone gets into a fight with their significant others from time to time, but how many are depraved enough to say some of the things Mel Gibson has said. I give you one example: "You look like a fucking pig in heat, and if you get raped by a pack of n****rs, it will be your fault." Why bring race into the equation if he doesn't think that black people are more prone to raping others?

Mel Gibson is a hateful person. As a human being, he's almost impossible to defend. ER made a good point in a different point about separating the art from the artist, but trying to defend Mel Gibson as man because we're all a little more racist than we think we are (credit to Magisme for that line) is absurd. Suggestions that Mel is unfairly judged because he says things while angry is not only untrue (since he's on record saying hateful things while sober) but disingenuous. Saying that he deserves a little more slack because we're all hypocrites suggest that we're all capable or saying (and believing) stuff like this: "Fucking Jews... The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world…"

It's one thing to suggest that Jewish people run Hollywood (which is, itself, a generalization), it's another thing to make disparaging comments about Jewish people because you feel as though they have too much influence in your industry/career. I have my own ingrained prejudices that I work to counter on a continual basis, but the extent of my own prejudice is no where in the same league as Mel Gibson's.

Of course the things that Mel Gibson said, shouldn’t be tolerated. It isn’t cool. It isn’t smart or civil. And I know I wrote earlier “It's not exactly right or wrong, it just is. It's part of our nature.” And I take it back a bit. It is wrong. But it is understandable. It shouldn’t be tolerated, but it is understandable. We all are human. We make mistakes and fall down and react to things in wrong ways.

Gibson might be a hateful person. And probably is. But why is he a hateful person? Not a lot of people ask that. Why are racists or homophobes so hateful? If we don’t automatically judge them (as in turn our backs at them and leave them drowning in their hate), maybe we can educate them. Of course not everyone can be helped or educated on these things. But the bottom line is that people who say things like Gibson said, need help. And that doesn’t mean that the fight for LGBT peoples’ rights is in danger. Actually those things support each other, in a way. We don’t have to always approve everything, but also we shouldn’t leave people with their own devices.

I used to think that gays shouldn’t be able to adopt (always thought they should be able to marry, though) and that maybe people in development countries aren’t as bright as we are, but now I know better. Now I think gays should be able to adopt. Now I know people are equally intelligent no matter where they are born. I know those things now thanks to other people. There’s still a lot I need to learn, but I never will if people judge me only by the stupid things I (possibly) say.

Edited June 27, 2014 by jekylhyde

[downzy]

People make mistakes, but not all mistakes involve racial or religious bigotry. Everyone gets into a fight with their significant others from time to time, but how many are depraved enough to say some of the things Mel Gibson has said. I give you one example: "You look like a fucking pig in heat, and if you get raped by a pack of n****rs, it will be your fault." Why bring race into the equation if he doesn't think that black people are more prone to raping others?

Mel Gibson is a hateful person. As a human being, he's almost impossible to defend. ER made a good point in a different point about separating the art from the artist, but trying to defend Mel Gibson as man because we're all a little more racist than we think we are (credit to Magisme for that line) is absurd. Suggestions that Mel is unfairly judged because he says things while angry is not only untrue (since he's on record saying hateful things while sober) but disingenuous. Saying that he deserves a little more slack because we're all hypocrites suggest that we're all capable or saying (and believing) stuff like this: "Fucking Jews... The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world…"

It's one thing to suggest that Jewish people run Hollywood (which is, itself, a generalization), it's another thing to make disparaging comments about Jewish people because you feel as though they have too much influence in your industry/career. I have my own ingrained prejudices that I work to counter on a continual basis, but the extent of my own prejudice is no where in the same league as Mel Gibson's.

Of course the things that Mel Gibson said, shouldn’t be tolerated. It isn’t cool. It isn’t smart or civil. And I know I wrote earlier “It's not exactly right or wrong, it just is. It's part of our nature.” And I take it back a bit. It is wrong. But it is understandable. It shouldn’t be tolerated, but it is understandable. We all are human. We make mistakes and fall down and react to things in wrong ways.

Gibson might be a hateful person. And probably is. But why is he a hateful person? Not a lot of people ask that. Why are racists or homophobes so hateful? If we don’t automatically judge them (as in turn our backs at them and leave them drowning in their hate), maybe we can educate them. Of course not everyone can be helped or educated on these things. But the bottom line is that people who say things like Gibson said, need help. And that doesn’t mean that the fight for LGBT peoples’ rights is in danger. Actually those things support each other, in a way. We don’t have to always approve everything, but also we shouldn’t leave people with their own devices.

I used to think that gays shouldn’t be able to adopt (always thought they should be able to marry, though) and that maybe people in development countries aren’t as bright as we are, but now I know better. Now I think gays should be able to adopt. Now I know people are equally intelligent no matter where they are born. I know those things now thanks to other people. There’s still a lot I need to learn, but I never will if people judge me only by the stupid things I (possibly) say.

I do agree that consideration should be given for where a person came from and what period of time they grew up in. Racism, bigotry, and intolerance are taught; they're not ingrained. And they can be untaught as well. So I do agree with your sentiment there.

But with respect to Mel Gibson, we're talking about a guy who lives and makes his money from the Hollywood studio system. He would have had decades of exposure to members of the Jewish faith and the LGBT community. I get why middle American is a little less accepting of the gay community since they have far less exposure to people who are LGBT. But Mel isn't one of those people. Moreover, as someone who has made numerous movies about history, he's not an unlearned individual.

It's understandable that my long-deceased grandmother felt inter-racial marriages shouldn't happen. She was a product of her time. But come on. Mel Gibson should know better. His prejudices are just as "understandable" as they are defensible.

Edited June 27, 2014 by downzy