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Policing Thread


magisme

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Call me crazy but how about these guys stop putting themselves is a position where the cop even feels the need to draw his gun let alone shoot it. Like seriously I cold live a hundred lifetimes as a black man and never once be in a situation where I had a cop pull his gun on me.

What if they are being put in such a position by a racist person? I'm not saying that's what happened here, what I've been reading of this case makes me believe that the officer was assaulted or provoked, maybe not to the extent to shoot Brown, but had Brown -like you say you would do- not give the officer a reason to shoot him, he would still have been alive.

Black people do still have to deal with racist profiling... don't underestimate racism.

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I'm not underestimating anything I grasp the full reality of racism as well as racial profiling as I deal with it daily in my line of work. I'm called a racist every single day simply for putting on my uniform. Whenever these things happen the world explodes with an attitude that the police officer woke up that morning, put on his uniform and thought "Hopefully I get to shoot a black man today". The level of rage and the irrational responses is off the charts and nobody ever stops to consider what the hell actually caused the police officer to feel the need to draw his weapon let alone shoot it. They simply say "White cop shoots black man". In a way jumping to this concrete conclusion with not so much as a second thought as to what actually caused it is a deep seeded racism in itself among people of colour towards white people in my opinion. There's no desire to know why this happened only that a WHITE cop killed a BLACK man. I can tell you what would happen if a Black cop killed a white man. Nothing. It would be very limited media coverage if any at all and the black community at large would say "so what, it happens to us all the time" yet they want white people as their ally and they want white people to sympathize and they want white people to eliminate all their problems. I know what I'm saying isn't going to be popular but at this point people of colour at large seem to look to white people as the be all, end all of their problems and solutions. We cause everything and we're the only ones who can fix it. It's insane. I have a friend who's black and we talked about this and she said to me "What have you ever done to be an ally to a person of colour?" The question is asinine as my family is a multicultural family of natives and white people and I deal with the harsh realities of racism towards natives everyday. I'm friends with her and I'm friends with many people from many different backgrounds many of them coloured people. I am disgusted by racism and speak out about it often but in her eyes as a white man I don't do enough because I haven't solved her problems. I told her I wasn't going to dignify her condescending question with an answer but rather I asked her "What have you done to be an ally to white people other than post things on facebook that are laced with bitterness and animosity towards white people?" Her answer: " I don't need to be an ally to privileged white people It's your job to be my ally" Pathetic. I am fully aware that white privilege exists as well but she uses it as a slur. When ever I disagree or present a different point of view it's basically fuck you privileged white boy. She doesn't want me as an ally to coloured people she wants me to solve her problems, all of them. And sadly I believe far too many people of colour share this view. Also what's sad is the way these communities, like Ferguson, often times react to these situations. It's pathetic, its counter productive and it actually perpetuates the stereotype that we so badly want to get rid of that black people are thugs and criminals. Just an idea but how about the next time something tragic happens the "black" community doesn't trash riot and loot their town. But of course I know there's the argument that if they don't do that then who's gonna listen?

How do we fix all this? I have no clue but I know it needs to stop with the flashy headlines that read "WHITE vs BLACK" that the coloured community is latching onto for dear life.

I just think there's so much more to these stories than simply WHITE cop kills BLACK man and when it's presented that way all it does is build animosity, it creates divide and sadly it's actually fueling racism on both sides. Black people start resenting white people for this and white people start resenting black people for seeing them as the problem.

Edited by Bono
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There is no justification for his murder, none at all. Also, the cashier said he didn't shoplift anything in the store, so...

You mean this cashier? The one being robbed??? Yeah, I don't think so.

1408114027000-ferguson-robbery-01.JPG

" I don't need to be an ally to privileged white people It's your job to be my ally"

This is the Social Justice Warrior creed in a nutshell... well, except that it lacks the misandrist white bigotry also associated with those idiots.

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Cops in Ferguson are awesome. All thug's fault.

Ferguson police were caught on camera Sunday night threatening to mace one reporter and shoot another. At least two other journalists also claim they were arrested while following police orders.

http://gawker.com/ferguson-police-threaten-to-shoot-reporter-and-mace-chr-1623125660

Edit: Apologies for the weird paste. Don't know how to fix it.

Edited by magisme
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It's nice to see racism is so alive and well in some of you. Again, the video is completely irrelevant to the case at hand. What people are protesting over is Michael Brown being shot and killed by a police officer, an officer whom the police say had no idea that Michael Brown was a suspect in any 'robbery'. Try and assassinate Michael's character all you want, but the fact remains is that this police officer shot him because he was a big black guy and nothing else.

It's funny how the only people in this situation who keep changing their story is the police, while everyone else's remain the same.

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Do we even know the cop is white yet?

That's another thing that's terrifying. When a black man is killed by an officer the entire coloured community will simply assume the cop was white before any of the details emerge. Black man killed by cop = racially motivated incident. It's automatic.

Is that picture actually a picture of the guy who was shot and killed? If so to me it's insane now that this man will be made into a martyr and he's going to be seen as a hero and a rallying point for people. It's absurd. And the actions of that community right now are pathetic.

The military style presence and enforced curfew is also absurd and the threats the police are making is absurd as well. The whole thing is absurd and a really sad reflection on society.... not just white cops. EVERYONE.

And see ** Flawless that's a major issue right there. If you're refering to me in anyway please explain. What have I said that expresses racism in any way. I'm simply presenting a point of view that most people won't express because to not agree 100% and to not side with Michael brown 100%, without knowing all the details mind you, equals being a racist. Yet you know for a FACT the officer killed him because he was a big black man? Maybe wait till all the facts actually come out before you start stating your opinion as fact. I find it very unlikely that this police officer woke up that morning and thought "I'm gonna shoot a big black man today if I get the chance. Preferably one that I have no suspicion of committing any crime. The more innocent the better" Yeah I'm sure that's what happened alright.

Edited by Bono
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Do we even know the cop is white yet?

That's another thing that's terrifying. When a black man is killed by an officer the entire coloured community will simply assume the cop was white before any of the details emerge. Black man killed by cop = racially motivated incident. It's automatic.

Is that picture actually a picture of the guy who was shot and killed? If so to me it's sickening now that this man will be made into a martyr and he's going to be seen as a hero and a rallying point for people. It's absurd.

i don't know, man. I see more people on the cop's side jumping to the conclusion that this is a white vs. black thing. It's not. It's a powerful vs. powerless thing.

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It's nice to see racism is so alive and well in some of you.

So, if someone has a different opinion than yours, they are racist?

Again, the video is completely irrelevant to the case at hand.

It is most certainly relavent. It is a window into mind of the thug that robbed that store, and it explains his violent response when confronted by police moments later.

What people are protesting over is Michael Brown being shot and killed by a police officer, an officer whom the police say had no idea that Michael Brown was a suspect in any 'robbery'.

Yes, but the protests aren't the problem; the lawless looting, burning, and destruction of private property by a group of criminal thugs that have infiltrated Ferguson from surrounding areas... even other states!

Try and assassinate Michael's character all you want...

That thug demonstrated his character when he commited a strong-arm robbery.

... but the fact remains is that this police officer shot him because he was a big black guy and nothing else.

It must be nice to live in a fantasyland where there are no shades of gray and everything is so black and white.

It's funny how the only people in this situation who keep changing their story is the police, while everyone else's remain the same.

What, specifically, are you referring to? How has the police changed the story, over time? Your just making shit up to suit your narative.

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And see ** Flawless that's a major issue right there. If you're refering to me in anyway please explain. What have I said that expresses racism in any way. I'm simply presenting a point of view that most people won't express because to not agree 100% and to not side with Michael brown 100%, without knowing all the details mind you, equals being a racist. Yet you know for a FACT the officer killed him because he was a big black man? Maybe wait till all the facts actually come out before you start stating your opinion as fact. I find it very unlikely that this police officer woke up that morning and thought "I'm gonna shoot a big black man today if I get the chance. Preferably one that I have no suspicion of committing any crime. The more innocent the better" Yeah I'm sure that's what happened alright.

I'm referring to a few people. I don't think any officer wakes up thinking "I'm going to shoot someone today", that is absolutely ludicrous and that point of arguing (that a few people hold) is ridiculous. People criticising an officer shooting someone aren't saying he woke up wanting to do it, but when black males are targeted more than other people for doing nothing wrong... there is a problem there.

So, if someone has a different opinion than yours, they are racist?

It is most certainly relavent. It is a window into mind of the thug that robbed that store, and it explains his violent response when confronted by police moments later.

Yes, but the protests aren't the problem; the lawless looting, burning, and destruction of private property by a group of criminal thugs that have infiltrated Ferguson from surrounding areas... even other states!

That thug demonstrated his character when he commited a strong-arm robbery.

It must be nice to live in a fantasyland where there are no shades of gray and everything is so black and white.

What, specifically, are you referring to? How has the police changed the story, over time? Your just making shit up to suit your narative.

1. No, but the language people use and the way they describe their ideas/opinions certainly indicates that they are.

2. It's not, and he didn't have a violent response to a police officer as witnesses verify. The officer shot him without knowing he was a suspect and targeted him for something ever though as far as he should know, he was just a guy walking.

3. The looters are people from out of town, some being white people that are taking advantage of the situation. The problem with the looters is that the people of Ferguson, the protestors are the ones trying to prevent it while the police are too busy throwing tear gas at peaceful protestors instead of stopping looters.

4. Using the word "thug" doesn't make Michael any less of a victim, I'm sure you enjoy using that word as a way to paint stereotypical imagery of a gangsta, but you're wrong.

5. When it comes to enforced racism, there is no grey.

6. The police can't seem to decide what happened. First the officer knew he was a suspect, then the officer stopped him for jaywalking, then Michael was far away, then Michael tried to get the cops gun... honestly, what is it?

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Autopsy shows he was shot at least 6 times, including twice in the head.

That in itself however doesnt really say a lot. I mean there are all kinds of scenarios that could paint this one way or another. In one instance the bullet in the top of the head could indicate that the cop shot a man kneeling on the floor. Alternatively the kid could have been charging head down at the policeman who just kept shooting until he put him down. Personally I suspect that the truth is somewhat less incendiary than the media would like it to be.

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Autopsy shows he was shot at least 6 times, including twice in the head.

That in itself however doesnt really say a lot. I mean there are all kinds of scenarios that could paint this one way or another. In one instance the bullet in the top of the head could indicate that the cop shot a man kneeling on the floor. Alternatively the kid could have been charging head down at the policeman who just kept shooting until he put him down. Personally I suspect that the truth is somewhat less incendiary than the media would like it to be.

I get what you're saying, but if a cop can't handle an unarmed man walking down the street without shooting him 6 times, he probably shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun. Doesn't really matter what the circumstances were.

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Trying to look at it objectively: Michael Brown was no saint, nor a hero. He'd just robbed a store. Was he posing a threat to the officer ? We don't know, because I think the only witnesses were Brown's friends ? (Could be mistaken.) Was the officer allowed to shoot ? Of course not, because Brown was unarmed. If he posed a threat, he should have arrested him. End of story.

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Autopsy shows he was shot at least 6 times, including twice in the head.

That in itself however doesnt really say a lot. I mean there are all kinds of scenarios that could paint this one way or another. In one instance the bullet in the top of the head could indicate that the cop shot a man kneeling on the floor. Alternatively the kid could have been charging head down at the policeman who just kept shooting until he put him down. Personally I suspect that the truth is somewhat less incendiary than the media would like it to be.
I get what you're saying, but if a cop can't handle an unarmed man walking down the street without shooting him 6 times, he probably shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun. Doesn't really matter what the circumstances were.
I'm not trying to defend the cop, I just think that there's more to this than is being reported. Yes it is reasonable to expect a cop to be able to handle a single unarmed suspect but when you think that this guy was 6'4" and nearly 300lbs I sure as fuck wouldn't want to let him anywhere near me. Personally I suspect that there was an altercation of some kind or another wherein the cop felt threatened and over reacted.

That said, what would you do if you were pointing a gun at a 300lb guy and they tried to rush you despite being warned? Not saying that's what happened but it's a perfectly plausible scenario in this instance as I see it. Of course the cop could also be a racist piece of shit who suddenly decided it was open season on darkies. I'm just saying that a lot of people seem to have their minds made up 100% before all the facts are in. :shrugs:

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Autopsy shows he was shot at least 6 times, including twice in the head.

That in itself however doesnt really say a lot. I mean there are all kinds of scenarios that could paint this one way or another. In one instance the bullet in the top of the head could indicate that the cop shot a man kneeling on the floor. Alternatively the kid could have been charging head down at the policeman who just kept shooting until he put him down. Personally I suspect that the truth is somewhat less incendiary than the media would like it to be.
I get what you're saying, but if a cop can't handle an unarmed man walking down the street without shooting him 6 times, he probably shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun. Doesn't really matter what the circumstances were.
I'm not trying to defend the cop, I just think that there's more to this than is being reported. Yes it is reasonable to expect a cop to be able to handle a single unarmed suspect but when you think that this guy was 6'4" and nearly 300lbs I sure as fuck wouldn't want to let him anywhere near me. Personally I suspect that there was an altercation of some kind or another wherein the cop felt threatened and over reacted.

That said, what would you do if you were pointing a gun at a 300lb guy and they tried to rush you despite being warned? Not saying that's what happened but it's a perfectly plausible scenario in this instance as I see it. Of course the cop could also be a racist piece of shit who suddenly decided it was open season on darkies. I'm just saying that a lot of people seem to have their minds made up 100% before all the facts are in. :shrugs:

I seriously doubt the guy was charging at an armed police officer, but even if that was the case the question of what I'd do or what you'd do is irrelevant. Neither of us is a trained police officer entrusted with lethal weapons and the public's safety.

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An excerpt from the statement of the guy who was with Michael Brown:

Mr Johnson said that he and Brown were walking home from a store when the cop told them to get out of the street and 'get the f***' on to the sidewalk'.

Johnson said they kept walking after explaining to the officer they were almost home. The officer then pulled his truck in front of them and blocked the road, Johnson said.

The friend said the officer threw open the door which slammed closed again after bouncing off Brown. It was then that the officer grabbed his friend by the neck.

'The time frame was 60 seconds or less, it got out of hand really quickly.'

Johnson said that the officer had drawn his gun by this time and threatened to shoot Michael.

'I seen the fire come out of the barrel,' he told the network. 'I could see so vividly what was going on because I was so close.'

Johnson said the first time the officer fired, he and Brown got scared and ran away but he could already see that the teenager had blood coming down his shirt where he had been shot.

The 22-year-old ducked behind a car but Brown kept running.

'He shot again, and once my friend felt that shot, he turned around and put his hands in the air, and he started to get down,' Johnson said.

The 22-year-old said: '[brown] stopped, turned with his hands up and said ''I dont have a gun, stop shooting!''

'But the officer still approached with his weapon drawn and fired several more shots.'

There's a couple of things there that don't quite fit as I see it. First of all I'm not sure how you can grab a guy around the neck from the driver's seat of your car when hes 6'4" unless he's already leaning into the window. Secondly either he's mistaken or just plain lying at this part as the autopsy clearly states that all the shots were fired into the front of his body. :shrugs:

'He shot again, and once my friend felt that shot, he turned around and put his hands in the air, and he started to get down,' Johnson said.

Edited by Dazey
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1. No, but the language people use and the way they describe their ideas/opinions certainly indicates that they are.

I think that you are projecting your own bias onto what other people write.

2. It's not, and he didn't have a violent response to a police officer as witnesses verify. The officer shot him without knowing he was a suspect and targeted him for something ever though as far as he should know, he was just a guy walking.

Again, you are just making up a scenairo that supports your bias. Witnesses? There were two; the kid that helped him rob the store, and the cop. That is it. Then, a couple of days ago two girls come forward with conflicting versions. How convenient for the pro Micheal Brown narrative that these two "witnesses" happen to show up after days of looting-- their credibility is nothing, too me. That kid knew that he had just commited a robbery; knew that police would be looking for him, and that once the cop saw the box of cigars, he put two + two together and realized that his suspect was the same robbery suspect of the BOLO that he had recieved over his radio

The problem with the looters is that the people of Ferguson, the protestors are the ones trying to prevent it while the police are too busy throwing tear gas at peaceful protestors instead of stopping looters.

The police have the right to demand that people disassemble and disperse if conditions warrant. The people getting gassed are the ones that didn't follow the orders is disperse. Once that curfew is in place, get off the streets! It really is that simple.

4. Using the word "thug" doesn't make Michael any less of a victim, I'm sure you enjoy using that word as a way to paint stereotypical imagery of a gangsta, but you're wrong.

Once again, you are projecting your own bias onto me. I call him a thug becuase he engaged in thuggish behavior; nothing else.

5. When it comes to enforced racism, there is no grey.

Inforced racism??? Do you mean systemic racism? If so, then no. No there is not, but I don't see that happening here. You have citizens rioting in the streets. It is a fundamental purpose of government to stop it from happening... otherwise anarchy!

6. The police can't seem to decide what happened. First the officer knew he was a suspect, then the officer stopped him for jaywalking, then Michael was far away, then Michael tried to get the cops gun... honestly, what is it?

You are taking a miscommunication in the hours after the incident and trying to imply that police are still doing it. That is disengenuine. Ever hear of the idom "fog of war"? It is applicable to this situation.

Autopsy shows he was shot at least 6 times, including twice in the head.

That in itself however doesnt really say a lot. I mean there are all kinds of scenarios that could paint this one way or another. In one instance the bullet in the top of the head could indicate that the cop shot a man kneeling on the floor. Alternatively the kid could have been charging head down at the policeman who just kept shooting until he put him down. Personally I suspect that the truth is somewhat less incendiary than the media would like it to be.

I get what you're saying, but if a cop can't handle an unarmed man walking down the street without shooting him 6 times, he probably shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun. Doesn't really matter what the circumstances were.

Cops are trained to eliminate the threat. That means shoot until the threat stops, or you run out of ammo. That is why cops don't shoot people in the legs to stop them.

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  • downzy changed the title to Policing Thread

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