Policing Thread

[Bono]

Sorry guys I deleted my post by accident.

I'd like to point out though that a white man was shot dead by the police in Salt lake just last week under incredibly similar circumstances. I posted the article. Most seem to not give a shit. I wonder why? Where's the outrage? Where's the riots? Where's the white community losing their shit? Oh that's right media refused to report it because it doesn't sell. It doesn't bring in ratings where as white cop kills black man is KA-CHING! The problem with this shit is by doing this the coloured community buys into the media with all their heart, no questions asked and then they resent the white people who do ask questions, who do want real answers who do want to be a vehicle of change but it's too late. To question it or not agree 100% with the coloured community's opinion equals being a blatant racist or even a closet racists. So at this point conversation isn't even allowed let alone wanted. The coloured community wants the help of white people to change this but they are not willing to engage in conversation that doesn't share their exact opinion or point of view.

Even in this thread we have people wanting to know the full details of this incident yet we have people criticizing those who don't condemn the officer to death without know the facts. People are judging the officers ability. They are suggesting he should've picked another line of work. Nobody even knows this officer's fucking story or history but the guy who was robbing the store and physically assaulting the guy working there is the good guy in this. Did he deserve to die? No. Nobody does for that but who the fuck are we, sitting behind our keyboards to judge the officer and his ability when we have no fucking clue what went down that night? People like the lazy headline though. "WHITE OFFICER KILLS Black MAN!" Boom case closed end of discussion. It was racially motivated and fuck ya'll who think otherwise or even dare to question it. Really?

Time for a reality check because far too many people are so quick to condemn police officers for being awful people. Police officers step into hostile environments every single day. You do not. Most of you have never been in a position where you felt really threatened nor have you ever been in a position where you are the authority and need to maintain that. It's so easy for us to sit behind our computers and say how the police should react or they should subdue an individual. I don't care how much training you have if you're a 5'10 190 lbs officer and a 6'4, 250 lb man charges you you might react differently than you would when analyzing a situation from behind your computer. Just saying.

I spoke with a police officer a few nights ago who got into a situation with a person on the street who was much bigger than him while on duty. The officer is a really good guy. Level headed and always calm. He approached the man and asked him to leave the area as there was an issue going on. This man had nothing to do with it but was being a nuisance and was drunk so he was free to leave or go to the drunk tank. The man then started getting aggressive and actually shoved the officer and then squared up against him. Now with witnesses and cell phone cameras all over the place how would you as the lone officer deal with this? Take out your gun? Your baton? Would you engage in and to hand combat? Honestly what would you do? You are in a situation where you need to maintain your authority. You can't back down because if you do so you lose all credibility in front of all the witnesses. If you pull out your gun you're a fucking lunatic cop. If you pull your gun and the guy calls your bluff and attacks now you're at risk of him taking your gun. If you pull out your baton and threaten to use it, you're now engaging in police brutality and again run the risk of him getting it and turning it on you. If you engage in hand to hand combat you're putting yourself at risk.

I don't need to tell you how this story ends but I'd like to know what any of you would do in this situation? I just love how people judge the police and know exactly how things should be handled yet you've never been in a situation even remotely close to it where decisions need to be made in the blink of an eye. Decisions that first take into consideration your well being and then that of the person in question. The person in question doesn't give a fuck about the police officer's well being. That drastically changes the dynamic of these types of altercations.

Nobody wants to tackle that ^^ eh? Didn't think so. It's much easier to "know" behind our keyboards that to actually really think about it.

[Snake-Pit]

That kid rushed the cop and had the cops gun pointing at the cop and was shot but still charged at him, that's why I'm thinking maybe PCP.

I mean, what was he doing?

[Ace Nova]

Bono and his buddies get an unexpected visitor:

That kid rushed the cop and had the cops gun pointing at the cop and was shot but still charged at him, that's why I'm thinking maybe PCP.

I mean, what was he doing?

He never rushed the cop.

How do you like them apples?

[Lio]

Isn't the officer/the case being scrutinized now ?

Yeah, and?

I got the impression it wasn't, by what you're saying. Don't be so hostile. I think no one here says it's a good thing that Brown died or that he deserved to die. I get that there are many deeper issues in the US, and this is only the spark. But I try to look at it objectively. Who says this particular cop was a bad, racist cop ? We don't know, we weren't there. He made the worst possible choice, obviously.

There are very serious problems (segregation, huge unemployment and poverty, random checks or arrests of blacks...), but to use this one officer as a scapegoat is lame and it doesn't get us any nearer to a solution.

Bono and his buddies get an unexpected visitor:

I resent that, KK.

[Ace Nova]

Isn't the officer/the case being scrutinized now ?

Yeah, and?

I got the impression it wasn't, by what you're saying. Don't be so hostile. I think no one here says it's a good thing that Brown died or that he deserved to die. I get that there are many deeper issues in the US, and this is only the spark. But I try to look at it objectively. Who says this particular cop was a bad, racist cop ? We don't know, we weren't there. He made the worst possible choice, obviously.

There are very serious problems (segregation, huge unemployment and poverty, random checks or arrests of blacks...), but to use this one officer as a scapegoat is lame and it doesn't get us any nearer to a solution.

The humorous part is that I never refereed to racism...or the kid's color. ...(other than answering questions or remarks).

But everyone that seems to be justifying this....or at the very least, saying it wasn't that bad....has referred to race.....why is that?

Edited August 19, 2014 by Kasanova King

[Dazey]

He never rushed the cop.

How do you like them apples?

You know this for certain how exactly?

[Lio]

Isn't the officer/the case being scrutinized now ?

Yeah, and?

I got the impression it wasn't, by what you're saying. Don't be so hostile. I think no one here says it's a good thing that Brown died or that he deserved to die. I get that there are many deeper issues in the US, and this is only the spark. But I try to look at it objectively. Who says this particular cop was a bad, racist cop ? We don't know, we weren't there. He made the worst possible choice, obviously.

There are very serious problems (segregation, huge unemployment and poverty, random checks or arrests of blacks...), but to use this one officer as a scapegoat is lame and it doesn't get us any nearer to a solution.

The humorous part is that I never refereed to racism...or the kid's color.

But everyone that seems to be justifying this....or at the very least, saying it wasn't that bad....has referred to race.....why is that?

If you are insinuating that I am racist, you take that back. I've never justified it or said it wasn't bad and only now mentioned racist issues that are very real in the US, after reading in the paper about the underlying problems that are the root of the riots. I'm just trying to understand the situation and trying to discuss it and I will not have you insulting me.

I mean it, take it back.

[estrangedtwat]

You maybe didn't mention race but you're ingnoring the most important factor KK....this dude's SIZE. He was big and dangerous. If a big-ass dangerous dude rushes at me and I have a gun I'm probably gonna shoot him cause I don't even wanna find out what he'll do to me once he gets his hands on me.

He was shot from the front. He was coming at the cop. Sounds like the first few hits didn't even faze him too, hence the head shot.

Did he deserve to die for stealing cigars? Fuck no. Did he deserve to die for rushing in a violent manner at a police officer who had his weapon drawn in self-defense? Dunno. If it had been me I'd have pulled the trigger.

[Ace Nova]

He never rushed the cop.

How do you like them apples?

You know this for certain how exactly?

Because that's exactly how the US Justice system works.

PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that he "rushed" the cop.

When you "just say" he did...is nothing but hearsay.

That is the U.S. Justice System...and when you take it into your own hands....you are nothing more than a traitor.....you are Benedict Arnold himself

This entire ordeal is a disgrace to this country.

[Dazey]

You maybe didn't mention race but you're ingnoring the most important factor KK....this dude's SIZE. He was big and dangerous. If a big-ass dangerous dude rushes at me and I have a gun I'm probably gonna shoot him cause I don't even wanna find out what he'll do to me once he gets his hands on me.

He was shot from the front. He was coming at the cop. Sounds like the first few hits didn't even faze him too, hence the head shot.

Did he deserve to die for stealing cigars? Fuck no. Did he deserve to die for rushing in a violent manner at a police officer who had his weapon drawn in self-defense? Dunno. If it had been me I'd have pulled the trigger.

Exactly right! Great post Josh.

[Ace Nova]

You maybe didn't mention race but you're ingnoring the most important factor KK....this dude's SIZE. He was big and dangerous. If a big-ass dangerous dude rushes at me and I have a gun I'm probably gonna shoot him cause I don't even wanna find out what he'll do to me once he gets his hands on me.

He was shot from the front. He was coming at the cop. Sounds like the first few hits didn't even faze him too, hence the head shot.

Did he deserve to die for stealing cigars? Fuck no. Did he deserve to die for rushing in a violent manner at a police officer who had his weapon drawn in self-defense? Dunno. If it had been me I'd have pulled the trigger.

You're not serious, are you?

So he deserved to get slaughtered....because he was "a big dude".

Like....WTF....seriously.......WTF.....

Does anyone in this forum have any brain cells left???????

Edited August 19, 2014 by Kasanova King

[Snake-Pit]

True that. That Jose caller could have been biased as Hell too.

It's all, shit.

Could of been Mrs. Baby-Killer for all I know calling that radio station, that's how it came so close to the police report, a report written by police, for police.

[estrangedtwat]

You maybe didn't mention race but you're ingnoring the most important factor KK....this dude's SIZE. He was big and dangerous. If a big-ass dangerous dude rushes at me and I have a gun I'm probably gonna shoot him cause I don't even wanna find out what he'll do to me once he gets his hands on me.

He was shot from the front. He was coming at the cop. Sounds like the first few hits didn't even faze him too, hence the head shot.

Did he deserve to die for stealing cigars? Fuck no. Did he deserve to die for rushing in a violent manner at a police officer who had his weapon drawn in self-defense? Dunno. If it had been me I'd have pulled the trigger.

You're not serious, are you?

So he deserved to get slaughtered....because he was "a big dude".

Like....WTF....seriously.......WTF.....

Does anyone in this forum have any brain cells left???????

Yes, that's what I wrote.

Jesus dumb-dumb.....can you read?

[Snake-Pit]

Justice a term coined to enforce.

[Dazey]

He never rushed the cop.

How do you like them apples?

You know this for certain how exactly?

Because that's exactly how the US Justice system works.

PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that he "rushed" the cop.

When you "just say" he did...is nothing but hearsay.

And you saying he didn't is nothing but hearsay also yet you seem awfully sure of it.

Seriously man? Youre saying that a cop (allegedly) being charged by a 300lb assailant has to prove that its happening to him beyond reasonable doubt before acting in self defence?

"Errrr, could you just hang on a second there son? Just wait a minute so that I can make sure there are at least three independent witnesses and video footage of you charging at me so that I may defend myself without worrying about prosecution?"

Edited August 19, 2014 by Dazey

[Ace Nova]

Yes, that's what I wrote.

Jesus dumb-dumb.....can you read?

No bro....can't seem to get the letters all right...one too many ruffies tonight.....

.....oh...wait....that was you.....

He never rushed the cop.

How do you like them apples?

You know this for certain how exactly?

Because that's exactly how the US Justice system works.

PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that he "rushed" the cop.

When you "just say" he did...is nothing but hearsay.

And you saying he didn't is nothing but hearsay also yet you seem awfully sure of it.

Seriously man? Youre saying that a cop (allegedly) being charged by a 300lb assailant has to prove that its happening to him beyond reasonable doubt before acting in self defence?

"Errrr, could you just hang on a second there son? Just wait a minute so that I can make sure there are at least three independent witnesses and video footage of you charging at me so that I may defend myself without worrying about prosecution?"

Actually, that's the way it works in the USA, Dazey.

Our citizens are 100% INNOCENT.....until proven guilty.

[estrangedtwat]

"ruffies." Ha.

So let me get this straight.....you won't take the officer's word for what happened? You need actual physical evidence or else you don't believe in it?

What's the matter.....you don't have....."faith?"

[Ace Nova]

"ruffies." Ha.

So let me get this straight.....you won't take the officer's word for what happened? You need actual physical evidence or else you don't believe in it?

What's the matter.....you don't have....."faith?"

I have TRUE faith. Cops worship nothing but a false god.

Absolutely need to have PROOF.

That is THE WAY OF THE USA.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

[bran]

Yes, that's what I wrote.

Jesus dumb-dumb.....can you read?

No bro....can't seem to get the letters all right...one too many ruffies tonight.....

.....oh...wait....that was you.....

He never rushed the cop.

How do you like them apples?

You know this for certain how exactly?

Because that's exactly how the US Justice system works.

PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that he "rushed" the cop.

When you "just say" he did...is nothing but hearsay.

And you saying he didn't is nothing but hearsay also yet you seem awfully sure of it.

Seriously man? Youre saying that a cop (allegedly) being charged by a 300lb assailant has to prove that its happening to him beyond reasonable doubt before acting in self defence?

"Errrr, could you just hang on a second there son? Just wait a minute so that I can make sure there are at least three independent witnesses and video footage of you charging at me so that I may defend myself without worrying about prosecution?"

Actually, that's the way it works in the USA, Dazey.

Our citizens are 100% INNOCENT.....until proven guilty.

sorry kk but i disagree. in our country the officer can use lethal force if he felt he was justifiably threatened. it is the job of the investigation that is going on to prove he acted unjustifiably.

[Snake-Pit]

I have reason to doubt he rushed a cop because, I do not trust the police.

Is that really what you want to hear?

I don't know if I should trust the friend of Michael Brown neither, or public opinion in St. Louis, because, sometimes, anything bad with a slight wift of dodgy is an excuse, but if you do feel the police aren't protecting your community and not doing the the job they're charged with doing and being 'above the law', then that really can make someone pretty pissed off too. It's just, what really happened? Maybe more CCTV is needed but then it's all about Big Brother watching you and police states and shit.

[Ace Nova]

sorry kk but i disagree. in our country the officer can use lethal force if he felt he was justifiably threatened. it is the job of the investigation that is going on to prove he acted unjustifiably.

No offense, Bran...please show me where in the Constitution it states that?

[bran]

sorry kk but i disagree. in our country the officer can use lethal force if he felt he was justifiably threatened. it is the job of the investigation that is going on to prove he acted unjustifiably.

No offense, Bran...please show me where in the Constitution it states that?

supreme court ruling tennessee vs garner.

the supreme court ruled officers can use lethal force on fleeing suspects if the cop feels the fleeing suspect is a danger to the police or anyone else.

http://www3.ce9.uscourts.gov/jury-instructions/node/160

"general, a seizure of a person is unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment if a police officer uses excessive force [in making a lawful arrest] [and] [or] [in defending [himself] [herself] [others]. Thus, in order to prove an unreasonable seizure in this case, the plaintiff must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the officer used excessive force when [insert factual basis of claim"

"Under the Fourth Amendment, a police officer may only use such force as is "objectively reasonable" under all of the circumstances. In other words, you must judge the reasonableness of a particular use of force from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene and not with the 20/20 vision of hindsight."

Edited August 19, 2014 by bran

[Ace Nova]

sorry kk but i disagree. in our country the officer can use lethal force if he felt he was justifiably threatened. it is the job of the investigation that is going on to prove he acted unjustifiably.

No offense, Bran...please show me where in the Constitution it states that?

supreme court ruling tennessee vs garner.

the supreme court ruled officers can use lethal force on fleeing suspects if the cop feels the fleeing suspect is a danger to the police or anyone else.

http://www3.ce9.uscourts.gov/jury-instructions/node/160

"general, a seizure of a person is unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment if a police officer uses excessive force [in making a lawful arrest] [and] [or] [in defending [himself] [herself] [others]. Thus, in order to prove an unreasonable seizure in this case, the plaintiff must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the officer used excessive force when [insert factual basis of claim"

"Under the Fourth Amendment, a police officer may only use such force as is "objectively reasonable" under all of the circumstances. In other words, you must judge the reasonableness of a particular use of force from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene and not with the 20/20 vision of hindsight."

Actually...if you read what it states.....all a person has to say is that the officer used "excessive force"....which getting shot at.....and being KILLED...would be absolute PROOF of.......

READ what the law is.

Thanks for clarifying.

And BTW....that isn't the Constitution of the US.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Kasanova King

[Dazey]

And you saying he didn't is nothing but hearsay also yet you seem awfully sure of it.

Seriously man? Youre saying that a cop (allegedly) being charged by a 300lb assailant has to prove that its happening to him beyond reasonable doubt before acting in self defence?

"Errrr, could you just hang on a second there son? Just wait a minute so that I can make sure there are at least three independent witnesses and video footage of you charging at me so that I may defend myself without worrying about prosecution?"

Actually, that's the way it works in the USA, Dazey.

Our citizens are 100% INNOCENT.....until proven guilty.

Yeah but you're kinda missing the point. Youre comparing apples with oranges here man. Sorry but were not talking about a trial in a court of law, were talking about a hypothetical case of self-defence. If somebody attacks or tries to attack you in the street at what point does is their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? Are they guilty at the point they charge you? Do you still give em the benefit of the doubt when the first headbutt comes in? Are you justified in pulling a weapon as theyre stamping on your head? Do you think ah maybe its just kids being kids as they take your gun off you and hold it to your head?

[Dazey]

And you saying he didn't is nothing but hearsay also yet you seem awfully sure of it.

Seriously man? Youre saying that a cop (allegedly) being charged by a 300lb assailant has to prove that its happening to him beyond reasonable doubt before acting in self defence?

"Errrr, could you just hang on a second there son? Just wait a minute so that I can make sure there are at least three independent witnesses and video footage of you charging at me so that I may defend myself without worrying about prosecution?"

Actually, that's the way it works in the USA, Dazey.

Our citizens are 100% INNOCENT.....until proven guilty.

Yeah but you're kinda missing the point. Youre comparing apples with oranges here man. Sorry but were not talking about a trial in a court of law, were talking about a hypothetical case of self-defence. If somebody attacks or tries to attack you in the street at what point does is their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? Are they guilty at the point they charge you? Do you still give em the benefit of the doubt when the first headbutt comes in? Are you justified in pulling a weapon as theyre stamping on your head? Do you think ah maybe its just kids being kids as they take your gun off you and hold it to your head?

you have to be in fear of your life, that gives you lawful excuse

That's pretty much my point.