Not An FSB Agent Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 All done under the auspices of religion. That is some fucked up ethics where one can find an equivalence in someone committing a mass killing of innocents, and the theft of money. In fact, hundreds of years before the birth of Christ, great thinkers recognized the benefits of proportionality and retributive laws.If it weren't for the high literacy rate in the Western world, they'd be strapping on bombs tooCitation needed!This action of killing as many innocent people as possible to instil terror into a populace is an Islamic practice, and specifically, an attribute of Wahhabism. Why don't the poor of sub-Saharan Africa resort to this tactic if it is merely a function of education? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) There's no such thing as 'Wahhabism', in fact Abdul Wahhab, the guy its named after, his whole doctrine was anti-sect/anti sub-division of Islam. In the simplest terms possible he stated that muslims should follow the Qu'ran exactly, as Islam ordains, there should not be any sects, any isms to it, the doctrine is laid out and clear and the way to be a muslim is to follow it. It further dictates that ones worship should be of Allah, as the Qu'ran ordains...and not Muhammad who was a prophet, a messenger...not a God. Or, as is popular in the more asian regions, the way people have these fuckin' holy men and pir types that a lot of people in those areas follow and, eventually, begin to call to in their worship, like it kinda seeps in, sort of like the way certain Christian sects deify like, i dunno, an apparition of the virgin Mary or something.But yeah, Wahabs whole point was the getting rid of sects and divisions and sub-divisions, one Qu'ran, one Islam...sad that he ends up getting some kinda sect named after him. Basically what he was saying was follow the Qu'ran...now if Vicar Carter down the road says in his sermon that you should follow the bible strictly are we gonna name a Carterism after him? No, that's pretty obvious shit, it's funny to me how like...people consider this a sect or an offshoot, it's kinda the core thing, as far as i can see. Edited September 26, 2014 by Lennie Godber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 All done under the auspices of religion. That is some fucked up ethics where one can find an equivalence in someone committing a mass killing of innocents, and the theft of money. In fact, hundreds of years before the birth of Christ, great thinkers recognized the benefits of proportionality and retributive laws. If it weren't for the high literacy rate in the Western world, they'd be strapping on bombs tooCitation needed!This action of killing as many innocent people as possible to instil terror into a populace is an Islamic practice, and specifically, an attribute of Wahhabism. Why don't the poor of sub-Saharan Africa resort to this tactic if it is merely a function of education?You claimed that my point of abortion bombings was a non sequitur when it was not. It is a modern example of Christians using violence and murder to initimidate those who hold different beliefs. Great thinkers may have consider proportionality and retributive laws thousands of years ago, but they certainly weren't practiced very well since. Consider the atrocities committed by the Christian armies in the crusades, or the zealous missionary work that murdered millions (Goa, India, being a good example). Actually, there are many examples of attrocities being committed in Africa, most often found in parts with little or no formal education. Or have you never heard what happened in Rwanda or the practice of systematic rape in the Congo. To claim that fear, violence, murder, and intimidation is limited to only one Judeo-Christian-Islamic sect seems a tad absurd. At least to me, maybe you can find others who agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not An FSB Agent Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 All done under the auspices of religion. That is some fucked up ethics where one can find an equivalence in someone committing a mass killing of innocents, and the theft of money. In fact, hundreds of years before the birth of Christ, great thinkers recognized the benefits of proportionality and retributive laws. If it weren't for the high literacy rate in the Western world, they'd be strapping on bombs tooCitation needed!This action of killing as many innocent people as possible to instil terror into a populace is an Islamic practice, and specifically, an attribute of Wahhabism. Why don't the poor of sub-Saharan Africa resort to this tactic if it is merely a function of education?You claimed that my point of abortion bombings was a non sequitur when it was not. It is a modern example of Christians using violence and murder to initimidate those who hold different beliefs.Great thinkers may have consider proportionality and retributive laws thousands of years ago, but they certainly weren't practiced very well since. Consider the atrocities committed by the Christian armies in the crusades, or the zealous missionary work that murdered millions (Goa, India, being a good example).Actually, there are many examples of attrocities being committed in Africa, most often found in parts with little or no formal education. Or have you never heard what happened in Rwanda or the practice of systematic rape in the Congo.To claim that fear, violence, murder, and intimidation is limited to only one Judeo-Christian-Islamic sect seems a tad absurd. At least to me, maybe you can find others who agree with you.It certainly was a fallacy. You are trying to equate a few *lone wolf* attacks with the systemic indoctrination that occurs in some arab communities, and to use examples that are hundreds, or even thousands, of years old is a disingenuous argument. Besides, the crusades were wars of conquest in a time when the victors enslaved or murdered the defeated.And while there are atrocities committed in Africa, they have little to do with religion, per se, and more to do with the mores and customs of those cultures.I never claimed that "fear, violence, murder, and intimidation" is limited to one sect, but that it is systemic within one sect.Again, that is some fucked up ethics that can equate mass killing with theft, but I suspect that it is more from some social construct in which political correctness has over-ridden basic humanitarian concerns. I mean, what the fuck, steal his money/murder him, it all the same. amirite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 All done under the auspices of religion. That is some fucked up ethics where one can find an equivalence in someone committing a mass killing of innocents, and the theft of money. In fact, hundreds of years before the birth of Christ, great thinkers recognized the benefits of proportionality and retributive laws. If it weren't for the high literacy rate in the Western world, they'd be strapping on bombs tooCitation needed!This action of killing as many innocent people as possible to instil terror into a populace is an Islamic practice, and specifically, an attribute of Wahhabism. Why don't the poor of sub-Saharan Africa resort to this tactic if it is merely a function of education?You claimed that my point of abortion bombings was a non sequitur when it was not. It is a modern example of Christians using violence and murder to initimidate those who hold different beliefs.Great thinkers may have consider proportionality and retributive laws thousands of years ago, but they certainly weren't practiced very well since. Consider the atrocities committed by the Christian armies in the crusades, or the zealous missionary work that murdered millions (Goa, India, being a good example).Actually, there are many examples of attrocities being committed in Africa, most often found in parts with little or no formal education. Or have you never heard what happened in Rwanda or the practice of systematic rape in the Congo.To claim that fear, violence, murder, and intimidation is limited to only one Judeo-Christian-Islamic sect seems a tad absurd. At least to me, maybe you can find others who agree with you.It certainly was a fallacy. You are trying to equate a few *lone wolf* attacks with the systemic indoctrination that occurs in some arab communities, and to use examples that are hundreds, or even thousands, of years old is a disingenuous argument. Besides, the crusades were wars of conquest in a time when the victors enslaved or murdered the defeated.And while there are atrocities committed in Africa, they have little to do with religion, per se, and more to do with the mores and customs of those cultures.I never claimed that "fear, violence, murder, and intimidation" is limited to one sect, but that it is systemic within one sect.Again, that is some fucked up ethics that can equate mass killing with theft, but I suspect that it is more from some social construct in which political correctness has over-ridden basic humanitarian concerns. I mean, what the fuck, steal his money/murder him, it all the same. amirite?But as Len already posted above, Wahhabism isn't even a real thing. Or at the very least, it's the perversion of one person's teachings to fit someone else's ethos. It has nothing to do with the actual teachings of Islam. Not sure why you're so quick to dismiss the actions of some as being the products of a "lone wolf" while others are indicative of the evils of a religion. Both operate on the disillusion that they're doing Gods work. And as if "indoctrination" doesn't happen every day in predominantly Christian-based countries. LOL. Have you not been paying attention to the battle over teaching children the theory of evolution versus what the Bible tells us? As for Africa, Georgy's point still stands. Regardless of whether they are committed for God or tribe, they're still being committed. And the common denominator in all of this is a lack of education that prioritizes religious/tribal fiction over objective fact. As Len mentioned earlier in this thread, the most indoctrinated Muslims are generally those who do not even read the Quran, but base their own understanding of the book on the teachings of others. There's a reason why there's a co-relation between child education and war and strife (the co-relation is particularly strong with female education).I'm not equating mass killings with theft, but simply pointing out the arbitrariness of your judgment. Sure, at the present moment, Islam has a bigger problem with its more fanatical followers. But that wasn't always the case, nor is it strictly limited to the religion of Islam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 And while there are atrocities committed in Africa, they have little to do with religion, per se, and more to do with the mores and customs of those cultures.Can you say 'cop out'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 https://twitter.com/hashtag/MuslimApologies?src=hashMuslims apologizing for everything. You get some assholes who ask them to apologize for terrorism but they won't because terrorists are not Muslims. They just don't get it.Some of the stuff is pretty funny....but if someone didn't know any better, they would think Muslims invented everything....even Math. Thats not exactly what they're saying though is it...you can't deny the importance of Arabs in the evolution of mathematics though.Not disagreeing with that....one of the posts apologized for "Mathematics", (Not the evolution of) implying they invented math, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 https://twitter.com/hashtag/MuslimApologies?src=hashMuslims apologizing for everything. You get some assholes who ask them to apologize for terrorism but they won't because terrorists are not Muslims. They just don't get it.Some of the stuff is pretty funny....but if someone didn't know any better, they would think Muslims invented everything....even Math. Thats not exactly what they're saying though is it...you can't deny the importance of Arabs in the evolution of mathematics though.Not disagreeing with that....one of the posts apologized for "Mathematics", (Not the evolution of) implying they invented math, that's all. To be honest it's all shit i overheard to me anyway, i wouldn't know one way or the other for a fact or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val22 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Is it in English or Arabic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 Is it in English or Arabic?English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Is it in English or Arabic?English.What have you learned so far? Anything surprise you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 Is it in English or Arabic?English.What have you learned so far? Anything surprise you? Not really, because I know Islam isn't all that bad. Fatwa response to ISIShttp://binbayyah.net/english/2014/09/24/fatwa-response-to-isis/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 I think what will surprise most people who only know Islam through the fear mongering media is how tolerant it is of Judaism and Christianity. It is not very tolerant towards idol worshiping polytheists but neither were Christians and Jews. But a lot of it involves helping your fellow man or woman. Pre-Islamic Arabia wasn't a happy place for orphans or women. Islam offers benefits to women and orphans. Like if a woman is widowed or divorce she is still covered financially. A big thing is dowry. The bride gets gifts from the groom and for whatever reason they divorce, she can keep the gifts. Hinduism has this backwards were the grooms family gets the dowry, hence all the infanticide of baby girls and sex-selected abortions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 My understanding of a dowry was the girls family gives their girl, or rather the couple, a bunch of money or gifts or whatever thats gonna like, hold em in good stead for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I think what will surprise most people who only know Islam through the fear mongering media is how tolerant it is of Judaism and Christianity. It is not very tolerant towards idol worshiping polytheists but neither were Christians and Jews. I actually discovered that a few months ago from a fellow co-worker of mine who is Muslim. He said something along the lines that Islam teaches that, "You will never come across a more caring person than the followers of Jesus Christ and to treat them well." That's from memory....so I might me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) Islam considers Christians and Jews as like...there's a phrase for them in Arabic or something which i think translates as the blessed people of scripture and that they're bound for the kingdom of Paradise...only like Muslims they gotta pay for their sins too, well like every-fucking-body really Point being, they're gonna do alright Edited September 27, 2014 by Lennie Godber 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) Islam considers Christians and Jews as like...there's a phrase for them in Arabic or something which i think translates as the blessed people of scripture and that they're bound for the kingdom of Paradise...only like Muslims they gotta pay for their sins too, well like every-fucking-body really Point being, they're gonna do alright It's amazing that most Muslims realize that we (Muslims, Christians, and Jews) all worship the same God. But if you ask the average Christian American, they would tell you you're crazy to think that. (Some of them in this very forum). They think the name "Allah" is some sort of false god. When you tell them what the name "Allah" translates to, they tend to have the most confused looks on their faces. Edited September 27, 2014 by Kasanova King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) Islam considers Christians and Jews as like...there's a phrase for them in Arabic or something which i think translates as the blessed people of scripture and that they're bound for the kingdom of Paradise...only like Muslims they gotta pay for their sins too, well like every-fucking-body really Point being, they're gonna do alright It's amazing that most Muslims realize that we (Muslims, Christians, and Jews) all worship the same God. But if you ask the average Christian American, they would tell you you're crazy to think that. (Some of them in this very forum). They think the name "Allah" is some sort of false god. When you tell them what the name "Allah" translates to, they tend to have the most confused looks on their faces. Can't blame em though I mean, it's not something they have a reference point to, do they? They're just as uninformed in the muslim world too in many many ways as I'm sure you're aware. The thing about, at least where my folks are from, there's a great oral tradition ( ) of relaying certain facts about what you are supposed to believe, just little things...and often they are wrong and they've been passed down by elders who also didn't know any better but then the benefit aspect is that you catch onto a lot of the good stuff. Really and truly, Christianity and Islam believe almost exactly the same thing, with two differences. Muslims don't believe the son of God bit, they believe Jesus to be among the most beloved of Gods prophets...but essentially just a man, just like the other prophets. The other difference being that Christians don't believe in Muhammad as a prophet at all. And that is pretty much it, the rest is not a lot different. Admittedly the son of God thing is a pretty big thing and central to the Christian ethos but to me they've always just seemed like the same thing.Fuckin' jews and muslims, now they might as well be the same thing, Salaam to Shalom, funny little hats, preachers with big beards that smell funny (sorry ) not eating pork, taking the coat off your cock, the placing of importance in Moses. Trivia, Moses is mentioned in the Qu'ran more than any other prophet. And yet all they can do is kick lumps out of each other, sad.Technically speaking God isn't Gods name, Gods name is Jehovah...or 'I am' if ya like, God is just like...the broad heading that all the dreamt up omnipotent beings go, thats not what he signs on his cheques. Edited September 27, 2014 by Lennie Godber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 Islam considers Christians and Jews as like...there's a phrase for them in Arabic or something which i think translates as the blessed people of scripture and that they're bound for the kingdom of Paradise...only like Muslims they gotta pay for their sins too, well like every-fucking-body really Point being, they're gonna do alright It translates to People of the Book or People of the Scriptures. Almost in an affectionate way, and it says they can continue to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 Islam considers Christians and Jews as like...there's a phrase for them in Arabic or something which i think translates as the blessed people of scripture and that they're bound for the kingdom of Paradise...only like Muslims they gotta pay for their sins too, well like every-fucking-body really Point being, they're gonna do alright It's amazing that most Muslims realize that we (Muslims, Christians, and Jews) all worship the same God. But if you ask the average Christian American, they would tell you you're crazy to think that. (Some of them in this very forum). They think the name "Allah" is some sort of false god. When you tell them what the name "Allah" translates to, they tend to have the most confused looks on their faces. Can't blame em though I mean, it's not something they have a reference point to, do they? They're just as uninformed in the muslim world too in many many ways as I'm sure you're aware. The thing about, at least where my folks are from, there's a great oral tradition ( ) of relaying certain facts about what you are supposed to believe, just little things...and often they are wrong and they've been passed down by elders who also didn't know any better but then the benefit aspect is that you catch onto a lot of the good stuff. Really and truly, Christianity and Islam believe almost exactly the same thing, with two differences. Muslims don't believe the son of God bit, they believe Jesus to be among the most beloved of Gods prophets...but essentially just a man, just like the other prophets. The other difference being that Christians don't believe in Muhammad as a prophet at all. And that is pretty much it, the rest is not a lot different. Admittedly the son of God thing is a pretty big thing and central to the Christian ethos but to me they've always just seemed like the same thing.Fuckin' jews and muslims, now they might as well be the same thing, Salaam to Shalom, funny little hats, preachers with big beards that smell funny (sorry ) not eating pork, taking the coat off your cock, the placing of importance in Moses. Trivia, Moses is mentioned in the Qu'ran more than any other prophet. And yet all they can do is kick lumps out of each other, sad.Technically speaking God isn't Gods name, Gods name is Jehovah...or 'I am' if ya like, God is just like...the broad heading that all the dreamt up omnipotent beings go, thats not what he signs on his cheques. God's name is also Yahweh. I think Jehovah is a translation. Allah was originally the name of the original Arab deities but ultimately became synonymous with God. Not all Muslims called God, Allah. It is just the Arabic name. Can be God, or in Persia I believed he was called Koba. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysteron Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I will forever think religion is Santa Claus for adults, and people are mad.Anyway, Muslims are cool and chilled out. They are an old fashioned outfit with regards to dress, I doff my hat to that.The local Muslim people here near where I live in Scotland are very caring about the older generation, and it is a good thing to be honest. Brits, generally, are not good at looking after older folk. We tend to dump them in homes or leave them to fester. Religious organisations here look after them, make them feel involved, it is quite amazing really.I know from visiting local mosques here, if you are Muslin and you don't do prayers and cannot do the Fridays, they are totally fine with it.I would like to religion moved away from young people. Religion should be banned in schools and be an over 18 thing, then let it evolve from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted September 28, 2014 Author Share Posted September 28, 2014 Yeah, they are very family oriented...like Jews and Catholics. Not to say Protestants aren't but generally speaking Jews and Catholics have big families. I've heard about Mosques hosting services for Christians because it is more convenient for them. Quite a few churches would take in Muslims and allow them to pray. Again out of convenience. There are still a lot of people who will bring up terrorism but over the years a lot of people don't feel as threatened. All they have to do is greet their neighbor. Muslims are found everywhere. Teachers, students, doctors, pharmacists, engineers, mangers, ect. Once people get to know those Muslims they will understand they are not so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val22 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I would think their bible would be in Arabic. Makes no sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted September 28, 2014 Author Share Posted September 28, 2014 I would think their bible would be in Arabic. Makes no sense to me.You've never heard of a translator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Drama Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I would think their bible would be in Arabic. Makes no sense to me.Zuh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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