aliexpress Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) He must be setting up for a new season, no matter what he says in the media. That ending is kick in the teeth to long time fans, it's not like it's one of his two hour movies that you can walk away from going wtf, oh well and move on.... most fans have devoted repeated hours to Twin Peaks and to leave it all hanging like that is bullshit. Edited September 5, 2017 by aliexpress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdeyahlxp Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 I liked PART 17, but 18 was just a kick in the fucking teeth indeed. I have so many questions. Spoiler What happened to Audrey? What happened to Red? What happened to Becky? Who's Billy? Who's the drunk that repeated everyone's lines? Who's the screaming asian girl from PART 15? Who's the 119 girl from the beginning of the season? Who was the scratching drug-addicted girl at the roadhouse in PART 9? Who was the dead man in Carrie Page's apartment? Did Richard Horne survive? Are Dale and Diane truly Richard and Linda? Why didn't Andy act upon the vision he received from the Fireman? Who is the Polish accountant? Who was the fat woman with the sick, puking kid in the car? What happened to Sarah Palmer/The experiment? Did they file any charges for her murdering that low-life trucker? Why did we see a glitched reflection of Ed in the window of his gas station? Why did Cole see a crying Laura Palmer from FWWM when he opened the door for Albert in PART 10? Who is the girl in which mouth the big insect walked into in PART 8? What was the weird noise Ben Horne and his secretary kept hearing at the hotel? Who was the other Linda in the wheelchair? Who was Duncann Todd working for? Now I liked the Return overall, but why all those unanswered questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseDemocracy2004 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Rdeyahlxp said: Reveal hidden contents What happened to Audrey? What happened to Red? What happened to Becky? Who's Billy? Who's the drunk that repeated everyone's lines? Who's the screaming asian girl from PART 15? Who's the 119 girl from the beginning of the season? Who was the scratching drug-addicted girl at the roadhouse in PART 9? Who was the dead man in Carrie Page's apartment? Did Richard Horne survive? Are Dale and Diane truly Richard and Linda? Why didn't Andy act upon the vision he received from the Fireman? Who is the Polish accountant? Who was the fat woman with the sick, puking kid in the car? What happened to Sarah Palmer/The experiment? Did they file any charges for her murdering that low-life trucker? Why did we see a glitched reflection of Ed in the window of his gas station? Why did Cole see a crying Laura Palmer from FWWM when he opened the door for Albert in PART 10? Who is the girl in which mouth the big insect walked into in PART 8? What was the weird noise Ben Horne and his secretary kept hearing at the hotel? Who was the other Linda in the wheelchair? Who was Duncann Todd working for? Now I liked the Return overall, but why all those unanswered questions? Part 18 seems to be getting plenty of stick at the moment. I don't know what to say about it yet. Spoiler #1 Audrey's in an asylum maybe? I suppose it's irrelevant now but was she wearing an owl cave ring during her dance? #2 Yeah, what happened to Red? And what about Shelly? #3 Becky had a nice piece of pie at the diner and then moved on? #4 & 5 Billy's either the guy that was terrified to talk to Andy or the "drunk" in the cell imo. #6 She was in House! Man, I miss House sometimes. Either she's on drugs, or she was there to throw us off. I remember reading that some people thought her scream sounded like Laura's. #7 Probably an example of a dodgy person living in a nice neighbourhood. #8 Another character to intentionally throw us off. #9 I have no idea what that was. #10 If he did he's a cockroach. #11 Maybe Linda is Bad Cooper's daughter (if he had one?) or the woman who lives at the trailer park. #12 I thought he was about to get got when Bad Cooper approached him. His demeanour seemed to change after Bad Cooper entered the Sheriff's Station. #13 Probably another example of a bad person living in a nice neighbourhood. #14 Hopefully that was just a sick child and not some kind of zombie. #15 I can't wrap my head around Sarah Palmer at the moment. Why was Dale trying to take Laura to her? Does Dale know she's "mother?" #16 An error with the camera maybe? Remember the door knob glitch in an earlier episode? #17 A premonition maybe? Did Cole mention Laura when he came clean to Albert? I can't remember. #18 Probably Sarah Palmer. If not her then I have no idea. #19 An entrance to The Dutchman's? #20 Good question. I don't know. #21 He was working for Bad Cooper wasn't he? Bad Cooper threatened him over the phone in an earlier episode. Can somebody try to explain the final scene of part 17 and the entirety of part 18 please. My head's spinning. My final thought for now... Spoiler Was this all a dream? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishan Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 It may all be a dream. Audrey's? Coop's? I get it in a way. The world is broken. Maybe irreparably (all the weird tense sound effects instead of music). And the people are broken, too. You can tell by some of the intentional leaden acting, like in the first few episodes. There's no heart to it anymore. And maybe it just can't be fixed. Also, did you catch the flashbacks to mask = possession that Lynch has used before in the series when the eyeless woman turned out to be Diane? I can't say I enjoyed it, because mostly I didn't, not for eighteen hours of purgatory. But I do think it was what Lynch wanted to do. I wish Mark Frost had had more say in it, might've reined in Lynch's self-indulgence a bit and given us more story. The loss of Coop (as Coop) was noted. And missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Rdeyahlxp said: I liked PART 17, but 18 was just a kick in the fucking teeth indeed. I have so many questions. Reveal hidden contents What happened to Audrey? What happened to Red? What happened to Becky? Who's Billy? Who's the drunk that repeated everyone's lines? Who's the screaming asian girl from PART 15? Who's the 119 girl from the beginning of the season? Who was the scratching drug-addicted girl at the roadhouse in PART 9? Who was the dead man in Carrie Page's apartment? Did Richard Horne survive? Are Dale and Diane truly Richard and Linda? Why didn't Andy act upon the vision he received from the Fireman? Who is the Polish accountant? Who was the fat woman with the sick, puking kid in the car? What happened to Sarah Palmer/The experiment? Did they file any charges for her murdering that low-life trucker? Why did we see a glitched reflection of Ed in the window of his gas station? Why did Cole see a crying Laura Palmer from FWWM when he opened the door for Albert in PART 10? Who is the girl in which mouth the big insect walked into in PART 8? What was the weird noise Ben Horne and his secretary kept hearing at the hotel? Who was the other Linda in the wheelchair? Who was Duncann Todd working for? Now I liked the Return overall, but why all those unanswered questions? I totally agree with you. WTF? Come on Lynch give us something. What year is this? Come the fuck on! lol At least there was 5 minutes where Cooper was in the same room with the Twin Peaks people. I wanted that so bad. Also, not sure about Cooper part 18. didn't seem like him. This whole storyline about more than one of the characters is very confusing to me. I do love Laura's screams though! She's still got it. Yeah, more questions than answers for sure. I guess Lynch wants you to make up stories for yourself. Now I'm glad I didn't watch the original series until this year and then went right into season 3. Don't think I could have waited 25 years to continue, but now it seems I'm in the same boat as everyone else. Hoping that Lynch decides to come back for at least one more season because Cooper doesn't know what year's he's in. I did laugh when the sheriff from Wyoming called the hotel and told him his brother Jerry was found naked and alone. lol Loved that! I also think Cooper might have time traveled but who knows for sure? Just a theory. 6 hours ago, Rdeyahlxp said: I liked PART 17, but 18 was just a kick in the fucking teeth indeed. I have so many questions. Reveal hidden contents What happened to Audrey? What happened to Red? What happened to Becky? Who's Billy? Who's the drunk that repeated everyone's lines? Who's the screaming asian girl from PART 15? Who's the 119 girl from the beginning of the season? Who was the scratching drug-addicted girl at the roadhouse in PART 9? Who was the dead man in Carrie Page's apartment? Did Richard Horne survive? Are Dale and Diane truly Richard and Linda? Why didn't Andy act upon the vision he received from the Fireman? Who is the Polish accountant? Who was the fat woman with the sick, puking kid in the car? What happened to Sarah Palmer/The experiment? Did they file any charges for her murdering that low-life trucker? Why did we see a glitched reflection of Ed in the window of his gas station? Why did Cole see a crying Laura Palmer from FWWM when he opened the door for Albert in PART 10? Who is the girl in which mouth the big insect walked into in PART 8? What was the weird noise Ben Horne and his secretary kept hearing at the hotel? Who was the other Linda in the wheelchair? Who was Duncann Todd working for? Now I liked the Return overall, but why all those unanswered questions? Read your hidden contents and yeah I have all those questions too. lol I think Lynch is just fucking with us. The man is a genius! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) I rewatched both parts of the finale. So much to digest. IF there is a season 4 (and rumblings are that there may be an announcement around the time Mark Frost's book "The Final Dossier" comes out in October 31st) I hope to fuck that all of the these subplots will be resolved. I was pissed as hell last night, as ALOT of other people were. Now I'm in the "like it but extremely confused" camp. Julee Cruise got on Facebook last night and tore Lynch a new one for truncating her screen time. I agree with her because she is an iconic figure. I love Lynch and his films but when you are promised a satisyfying ending that would wrap up everything (this is from his own mouth) I feel the anger, for now, is justified. All of the other unresolved plotlines aside I found an article on Indiewire that should explain, at least, the Cooper/Diane/Laura storyline. http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/twin-peaks-ending-explained-answers-part-18-finale-david-lynch-1201872863/ The final hour of “Twin Peaks: The Return” ended David Lynch’s series on a baffling, brilliant high by returning to the show’s most important figure: Laura Palmer. Dale Cooper went back to the past to stop Laura’s murder, but his attempt was corrupted by Judy, an “extreme negative force” who plucked Laura from the timeline we’re most familiar with and put her somewhere else entirely. Cooper ended up preventing Laura’s death, as her corpse on the beach from the pilot episode disappeared, but he didn’t save her. In fact, he only prevented her death in one timeline. Wherever Judy sent Laura was where Lynch decided to set the last half hour of the entire series, and it’s here where most viewers were left scratching their heads. It’s impossible to know exactly what this setting was, but it’s safe to assume it was some kind of alternate dimension created by Judy to ensure Laura’s demise. Cooper may have saved her in one timeline, but that doesn’t mean Judy was done with her. In one of the earliest scenes in “The Return,” the Fireman told Cooper in the Red Room something that proved to be one of the biggest clues to making sense of the end: “Remember 430. Richard and Linda. Two birds, one stone.” Nearly 18 hours later, this line finally paid off. For viewers paying close attention, 430 was the mile number in which Cooper and Diane hit before being taken to other side of whatever dimension Judy created. Richard and Linda were the new names of Cooper and Diane, respectively. When Cooper read the letter Diane had left him, she signed the note “Linda” and addressed him as “Richard.” Lastly, Gordon Cole revealed at the start of Part 17 that “two birds, one stone” was the last thing Cooper said to him before his disappeanrce. In the words of Gordon Cole: Now the last thing Cooper told me was, ‘If I disappear like [Major Briggs and Phillip Jeffries], do everything you can to find me. I’m trying to kill two birds with one stone.’ So what does all of this mean? We may never know for certain, but the Fireman must have known that Judy was powerful enough to create another timeline so that Laura couldn’t easily be saved. The Fireman was basically giving Cooper the back-up plan should his first attempt not prove successful. By entering the alternate dimension (one stone), Cooper had the chance to save Laura and defeat Judy (something that was no longer possible in the show’s traditional timeline). Of course, the last shot of the series proved Cooper didn’t succeed. The alternate timeline proved to be a place stuffed with ominous easter eggs, all foreshadowing an ending in which good would not prevail. Some were obvious (the diner Cooper/Richard stops at is named Judy’s), while others required a deeper level of “Twin Peaks” knowledge. Cooper found Laura Palmer in the new dimension, only she knew herself as Carrie Page from Odessa, Texas. Her home had a figurine of a white horse, which is what Sarah Palmer saw on the nights before Laura and Maddie were killed. Even more telling was what happened when Cooper/Richard and Laura/Carrie finally made it back to Twin Peaks and knocked on the door of what should’ve been Laura’s home. Sarah Palmer didn’t answer but Alice Tremond did, and she told the pair that she bought the house from a Mrs. Chalfont. These last names should sound familiar, as they trace back to Black Lodge entities (Ms. Chalfont was at the trailer park where Theresa Banks died, and she later appeared to Laura as Ms. Tremond and gave her a painting that acted as a portal from her bedroom to the lodge). These easter eggs all suggest one thing: The timeline may be different, but the age old battle between good and evil for Laura Palmer’s soul continues. Wherever Judy brought Laura, it was still a place where the Black Lodge influence could be felt and it was still a place where Cooper arrived on orders of the Fireman to save her. It’s a different timeline that’s somehow, at its core, exactly the same. Before Phillip Jeffries allowed Cooper to enter the past in Part 17, his smoke took the shape of an infinity sign. By the end of Part 18, it’s clear Jeffries was warning Cooper that to enter the past would be to enter a never-ending loop in which good battles evil across timelines and planes of reality. Evil triumphs good in the past when Judy eliminates Laura from the timeline. Evil triumphs good in the alternate dimension when Carrie Page reawakens as a horrified Laura Palmer. But good will keep trying nonetheless; that’s the optimism of David Lynch. Part 8 turned the scope of “Twin Peaks” into a grand fight between evil (Judy appears to be the monster figure that gave birth to BOB) and good (the Fireman gives birth to Laura Palmer, the only being that can defeat the evil created by the atomic bomb). Part 18 ended the series by saying that fight never ends. It’s destined to keep repeating itself; but as long as we have Dale Cooper’s in the world, good will always have a shot. Lynch’s finale ultimately makes this grand statement understandable and unavoidable; it’s what “Twin Peaks” is all about. Here’s hoping we get to see Cooper have another shot at evil in the future. Edited September 5, 2017 by Jabberwocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseDemocracy2004 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 ^ That was a good read. I have a question; Spoiler When Sarah was destroying Laura's photograph was that Judy removing Laura from the woods with Dale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdeyahlxp Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Mark Frost probably just wants to sell his book in october. I think giving Lynch full-control was a bit too much and he needed other people to keep his ego in check. I like him, but a lot of people are licking his old wrinkly balls and worshiping him while he has released his fair share of utter dogshite too. The Monica Bellucci scene was a good example, I heard he flew all the way too France for just that one scene and to get a chance to work with her. I think that's fucking ridiculous. Overall I enjoyed this season, but they could've done a lot more with some characters and leave most Roadhouse characters out entirely. Edited September 5, 2017 by Rdeyahlxp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 1 hour ago, ChineseDemocracy2004 said: ^ That was a good read. I have a question; Reveal hidden contents When Sarah was destroying Laura's photograph was that Judy removing Laura from the woods with Dale? God who the hell knows? If this turns out to be a dream, I will scream just like Laura Palmer. lol Hate the whole dream shit. Yeah, was Audrey in a mental hospital? It seemed like it since all we saw was her in white with padded walls. I really do hope the series comes back. I hate unfinished shows and movies. I don't want to have to think up story lines for myself. I don't like to do that. Too many unanswered questions and I really hope Lynch will at least answer some of them. 1 hour ago, Rdeyahlxp said: Mark Frost probably just wants to sell his book in october. I think giving Lynch full-control was a bit too much and he needed other people to keep his ego in check. I like him, but a lot of people are licking his old wrinkly balls and worshiping him while he has released his fair share of utter dogshite too. The Monica Bellucci scene was a good example, I heard he flew all the way too France for just that one scene and to get a chance to work with her. I think that's fucking ridiculous. Overall I enjoyed this season, but they could've done a lot more with some characters and leave most Roadhouse characters out entirely. I agree with you too. The whole Road House un named characters were a total waste of time. I did enjoy most of the season too, but I really do want answers. I also missed having more scenes at the hotel. I love that hotel. It was so important in the second season. Also how the hell did Jerry run all the way to Wyoming? lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rdeyahlxp said: Mark Frost probably just wants to sell his book in october. I think giving Lynch full-control was a bit too much and he needed other people to keep his ego in check. I like him, but a lot of people are licking his old wrinkly balls and worshiping him while he has released his fair share of utter dogshite too. The Monica Bellucci scene was a good example, I heard he flew all the way too France for just that one scene and to get a chance to work with her. I think that's fucking ridiculous. Overall I enjoyed this season, but they could've done a lot more with some characters and leave most Roadhouse characters out entirely. Oh God yes. My friends who were of the "it was a masterpiece, goodnight everybody" didn't understand why I was so frustrated. All of these side characters felt like it was a telling of an unfinished book. Why write characters and put them in situations so that people get a vested interest in them and not complete their stories? The whole "it is a dream bit" is such an overused and hackey trope. There is also no artistry in using stuff from your own filmography to pad out a script. Unused ideas? Sure thing. But I could sit here and see something appear and go "oh he's referencing Lost Highway, he's referencing Mullholland Drive, etc." That is pure fucking laziness that shows you are out of ideas. That is not moving a story forward, that is going backwards, much to the chagrin of what I've told my Lynch apologists friends. The types that call you a pleb because you didn't agree with them. The Monica Belluci stuff I'm sure was Lynch doing something off the cuff because he is well known to write something and then change it on the day of the shoot. Sometimes it works but often times it doesn't. If it was supposed to be some sort of meta humor then it failed. Lynch was given a blank check by Showtime and became over indulgent, except with the cheesy CGI effects that I could do with Adobe After Effects. The exception being the nuclear explosion, which was fantastic. Just because you can say "oh the point was that WE the audience was the dreamers" is not satisfactory by any means. The artist is supposed to present their art in its truest form. You can get just enough out of the art, make your interpretations, and fill in the blanks. These were not blanks but huge fucking gaps that you cannot fill. Lynch has said if the numbers were good then he would consider doing a season 4 but if the outcome will be like how this season and the finale will be then he can cram it. I think he and Frost saw dollars signs knowing that Twin Peaks fans will lap anything related to it. I'm of the opinion that because you shit into a bowl and call it chocolate ice cream doesn't make it so. Hell even Frost said that everything from before (seasons 1 and 2) and what we got in season 3 would all tie up the loose ends. Guess what asshole? It didn't. As much as people are mad at Lynch, Mark Frost should take 50% of the blame cause he co-wrote the fucking thing. To me they took a giant shit on a show that I have enjoyed for the past 27 years. They took a shit on all of us older fans who have been championing, like myself, for the show to return. Yes it didn't have to be fan service or a pure nostagia trip. I understand that much. But I was left with "OK well that just happened...." 1 hour ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said: God who the hell knows? If this turns out to be a dream, I will scream just like Laura Palmer. lol Hate the whole dream shit. Yeah, was Audrey in a mental hospital? It seemed like it since all we saw was her in white with padded walls. I really do hope the series comes back. I hate unfinished shows and movies. I don't want to have to think up story lines for myself. I don't like to do that. Too many unanswered questions and I really hope Lynch will at least answer some of them. I agree with you too. The whole Road House un named characters were a total waste of time. I did enjoy most of the season too, but I really do want answers. I also missed having more scenes at the hotel. I love that hotel. It was so important in the second season. Also how the hell did Jerry run all the way to Wyoming? lol Yeah even I don't know why Sarah went ballistic. I have the sad distinction it was a dream and it turned into a nightmare. As much as dreams and refernces to dreams have been pointed out I say it is safe to assume. Either that or it was Lynch's way of introducing his new age trancendental meditation horseshit on the people. "We are the dreamers who dream and then live inside of the dream" Either way it was a big middle finger to us all. Audrey wouldn't be in a mental hospital. To think of this logically, mental hospitals don't have mirrors that swing out. They are only about as thick as a sheet and are bolted to the walls so nobody can smash them and hurt themselves or others. Also there were the sounds of electricty and the end credits to her song were played backwards so, storywise, I think she is in one of the lodges. And yes I agree with you. We don't need to be spoonfed information but for fucks sakes give us enough off of that spoon so we can taste the morsel. They are supposed to be the storytellers not us. Lynch wil NEVER give you any answers. The man has never operated in that fashion. The random Roadhouse characters were nothing but red herrings which as Agent Cooper said in the earlier 90's series "is not a fish I particulary care for" Jerry ended up in Wyoming because reasons Edited September 5, 2017 by Jabberwocky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseDemocracy2004 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Can we all agree that... Spoiler Cooper & Diane travelling 430 miles sent them to an alternate reality? Edited September 6, 2017 by ChineseDemocracy2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, ChineseDemocracy2004 said: Can we all agree that... Hide contents Cooper & Diane travelling 430 miles sent them to an alternate reality? Without a doubt. The shot goes from sunshine to night time. That and the motel and car change the next morning after they have sex. A friend of mine wrote a very good post about this that I could possibly get behind, in a metaphorical sense. Still doesn't excuse the absense of the other characters. If you could take control in a dream and leave it to go behind the scenes of your consciousness, you would find you can enter the dream anywhere and change it, but in doing so you would alter your consciousness. The electricity of your consciousness is a physical thing, and if you were able to manipulate it, you would change not only subjective reality (the dream, the water), but also the objective reality (your self, the well). "This is the water and this is the well. Drink full and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes and dark within" Consciousness is outside the well, the white horse of the senses take you there. The dream is the water, and it is within, the source of the senses/electricity. Cooper is the self, Diane is the dream. Diane takes him to the fantasy, the passion, the sacred. Laura takes him back to the real, the mundane, the profane. Each, by the way, does the opposite of their character, ying and yang. So, Cooper read a Dear John letter left in a motel (Linda, Richard) and it was mundane (just like Odessa - the mundane coffee), so his dream made it into a murder mystery in Twin Peaks which was fantasy, an ideal (the fantastic coffee). He dreamed and whilst dreaming tried to manipulate the dream, thus he changed his consciousness/reality. He drove some woman he was investigating on a average FBI case all the way to a town in Washington to try and connect the fantastic dream to the mundane reality. And when it didn't work (Odessa woman has no idea what he wants), he made it work by reverting back into a dream (Laura screams). In episode 17 he tries to lead her out of the dream, and in episode 18 he tries to lead her out of reality. And that was Twin Peaks in a nutshell. Edited September 6, 2017 by Jabberwocky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliexpress Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Jabberwocky said: Oh God yes. My friends who were of the "it was a masterpiece, goodnight everybody" didn't understand why I was so frustrated. All of these side characters felt like it was a telling of an unfinished book. Why write characters and put them in situations so that people get a vested interest in them and not complete their stories? The whole "it is a dream bit" is such an overused and hackey trope. There is also no artistry in using stuff from your own filmography to pad out a script. Unused ideas? Sure thing. But I could sit here and see something appear and go "oh he's referencing Lost Highway, he's referencing Mullholland Drive, etc." That is pure fucking laziness that shows you are out of ideas. That is not moving a story forward, that is going backwards, much to the chagrin of what I've told my Lynch apologists friends. The types that call you a pleb because you didn't agree with them. The Monica Belluci stuff I'm sure was Lynch doing something off the cuff because he is well known to write something and then change it on the day of the shoot. Sometimes it works but often times it doesn't. If it was supposed to be some sort of meta humor then it failed. Lynch was given a blank check by Showtime and became over indulgent, except with the cheesy CGI effects that I could do with Adobe After Effects. The exception being the nuclear explosion, which was fantastic. Just because you can say "oh the point was that WE the audience was the dreamers" is not satisfactory by any means. The artist is supposed to present their art in its truest form. You can get just enough out of the art, make your interpretations, and fill in the blanks. These were not blanks but huge fucking gaps that you cannot fill. Lynch has said if the numbers were good then he would consider doing a season 4 but if the outcome will be like how this season and the finale will be then he can cram it. I think he and Frost saw dollars signs knowing that Twin Peaks fans will lap anything related to it. I'm of the opinion that because you shit into a bowl and call it chocolate ice cream doesn't make it so. Hell even Frost said that everything from before (seasons 1 and 2) and what we got in season 3 would all tie up the loose ends. Guess what asshole? It didn't. As much as people are mad at Lynch, Mark Frost should take 50% of the blame cause he co-wrote the fucking thing. To me they took a giant shit on a show that I have enjoyed for the past 27 years. They took a shit on all of us older fans who have been championing, like myself, for the show to return. Yes it didn't have to be fan service or a pure nostagia trip. I understand that much. But I was left with "OK well that just happened... This is an excellent, well written post that basically sums up my feelings towards The Return. That's another thing I don't get, Lynch's work, including what we've all just watched is visually stunning, whats with the shitty CGI?? It's been annoying me since Dougie followed the stupid flying black lodge symbol to the winning slot machines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabbath Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 If they don't do a fourth season then, I'm sorry, but Lynch can fuck off. Movies like Inception can be left open for interpretation, but you don't come back after 25 years to finish your story, only to leave it open for more. In no way is it OK if that's the last episode of Twin Peaks that we get. It felt like the first episode of a new season and we should be waiting until next week for the second episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, aliexpress said: This is an excellent, well written post that basically sums up my feelings towards The Return. That's another thing I don't get, Lynch's work, including what we've all just watched is visually stunning, whats with the shitty CGI?? It's been annoying me since Dougie followed the stupid flying black lodge symbol to the winning slot machines! Thank you I had to get my vitriol out one way or another LOL and this has been my only safe haven. I am a Lynch fan and love what he's done (except for Dune LOL) I mean I was really digging what I was watching until they pulled the rug out from under us with that ending that was nothing more than a combination of Lost Highway and Mullholland Drive. Hell even the ending part with Luara screaming is straight out of Evil Dead 2. It was a Bob Newhart, Bobby Ewing from Dallas, fucking autistic kid from St. Elsewhere with a snowglobe ending where the whole show was in his mind. How fucking corny is that, ya know? I know I couldn't have been the only one checking my watch during part 18 going "holy fuck there's only 20 minutes left, what is happening and what about the other characters?" The original series didn't have a romance between Diane and Cooper so this isn't making any sense. Kyle Mclaughlin even went so far on a fan question on Twitter and asked if we will find out about Annie's fate and he said we would. Yeah we sure did. A casual throwaway mention when they found those missing diary pages of Laura Palmer. When they first showed The Red Room in all CGI my heart sank and the bile was about to come up. It wasn't Birdemic: Shock And Terror bad but they definately didn't use their budget for some better animation or someone who would know what the fuck to do. I'm a low budget film maker and any type of special effect or CGI I've used was using Sony Vegas 12 and I've gotten the same results. I just get pissed off when a writer or director tries to fling his paintbrush in a haphazzard manner and calls it art. Plus all of the fanboys get all pissy-eyed because "you just don't get the genius maaaaann" "stick to watching Transformers, this is a thinking person's show" There are ways to put in abstractions in a story, in small but dedicated doses where those abstractions would fit and belong but you cannot just say "fuck it I'm going to insert X cause reasons" because it breaks the narration. The story is the most important part and I don't care what any wannabe experimental film maker dickhead says. We have to have a reason to like, love, fear, laugh, feel empathy, feel something for characters cause they are what drives the story. We need to be immersed with them more than some oddball visual asthetic 2 hours ago, Black Sabbath said: If they don't do a fourth season then, I'm sorry, but Lynch can fuck off. Movies like Inception can be left open for interpretation, but you don't come back after 25 years to finish your story, only to leave it open for more. In no way is it OK if that's the last episode of Twin Peaks that we get. It felt like the first episode of a new season and we should be waiting until next week for the second episode. I would be quite surprised if they do a season 4 because, to me, David Lynch and Mark Frost just gave us a middle finger and are laughing all the way to the bank. Not only for Showtime subscriptions but all of the various merchandise like those Funko Pop dolls and action figures. Anybody with a functioning unpretentious brain knows that the end result (and never ending Dougie subplot) of this season was dog shit. But you know there will be those that are sadists that would LOVE another season just like this last one. You think Axl Rose has nut swingers? Lynch fans outdo him 1000%. Exactly. Fire Walk With Me was great because while it left room for interpretation it was still a movie that was only 2 hours and 15 minutes long. The reason why was because that was the limit set by the movie company. Lynch couldn't have went over that time limit. Also because it was a bridge between the original series and a prequel. Just by going by the shooting script I read and the FWWM fan-edit the movie would have been 4 hours long and if Lynch could have gotten his way, that's exactly the length it would have been. For all of the great films he's made there was always someone there to reign him in. We got an 18 hour batshit clusterfuck of a "movie". Twin Peaks: The Return is the end result you get when he was left to his own devices. I always wondered why the original slate for this was only 9 episodes but then ballooned up to 18. I found my answer during the closing credits of the finale. There was a way to make this a short and concise story and explore new realms without having to bloat it more than needed. I found this theory that this season was just supposed to be all meta. I'll post the link so you can read to what lengths fanboys are doing to justify this season. It is a doozy to say the least. WE the audience created the Tulpas (try not to cringe while reading this nonsense) https://ozba.wordpress.com/2017/08/31/twin-peaks-audrey-billy-and-living-inside-a-dream/ Edited September 6, 2017 by Jabberwocky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 I actually Lynch wanted to end the series with a big mystery. He did it 25 years ago, so why change. Yeah, I'm sure they are laughing all the way to the bank. We watched it and enjoyed it, but I do hate when things are left up in the air, but we can't do shit about it. It was good while it lasted. I would have loved another season, but Lynch might do the same thing again anyway. We never found out what that damn thing was in that glass box either? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabbath Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 IGN's interpretation/review of the finale is pretty good, but doesn't excuse it in my mind. http://m.ign.com/articles/2017/09/04/why-twin-peaks-had-the-perfect-ending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said: I actually Lynch wanted to end the series with a big mystery. He did it 25 years ago, so why change. Yeah, I'm sure they are laughing all the way to the bank. We watched it and enjoyed it, but I do hate when things are left up in the air, but we can't do shit about it. It was good while it lasted. I would have loved another season, but Lynch might do the same thing again anyway. We never found out what that damn thing was in that glass box either? lol He DID end it with a big mystery. It's just the execution that sucked. I enjoyed it at least 85% of it. Call it blasphemy but I would rather Lynch be not as involved. The original series he only directed 6 of the 30 episodes and there were some that were magnificent. The ones with Tim Hunter, Lesli Linka Glatter, Caleb Deschanel were on par with what he had done. I would not mind if Lynch/Frost oversaw it like showrunners but a season 4 that would be like season 3? I'll pass. After much thought after the few days of rewatching this and trying to digest it, I feel that part 17 was the resolution and part 18 was a set-up for a new season. Showtime invested alot of money into this property (that they now own) that they do not want to lose those subscriptions. They are holding the cards to close to their hands to just let this slip on by. I believe if we get something else from Twin Peaks it will be something like a 6 episode mini-series or a few feature length films. Why this hurt me so bad is because Lynch is what got me interested in making films. I feel like I have internalized him that I can understand him. If this has taught me anything it is that I now know the distinction between Lynch fans and Lynch sycophants. Edited September 7, 2017 by Jabberwocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Black Sabbath said: IGN's interpretation/review of the finale is pretty good, but doesn't excuse it in my mind. http://m.ign.com/articles/2017/09/04/why-twin-peaks-had-the-perfect-ending Not one iota. This is all just a part of "this season was supposed to be meta/dream" territory. It's a despiration that people who lick Lynch's dirty asshole are trying to justify. Everybody knows that you cannot erase truama and Laura certainly had nothing but a life like that from the age of 12 until she died at 17. But the whole town was in on it together. This season kept everybody at a distance whereas the original every character was together and intertwined. Season 2 explained that Cooper failed so you are going to take season 3 and make Cooper fail again? What in the hell was the point then? We spent more time in Las Vegas than we did in the town the show was named after. I mean a guy with a green glove was able to kill an everpresent evil by punching him to death? That's comic book bullshit. Cooper didn't confront his own shadow self which was well established and needed. And how in the hell did Cooper even know who Freddie was? Maybe have a scene where Coop was in The White Lodge and have The Giant/Fireman give him a cryptic clue about the guy. It was just so jarring. To go back to my comic book analogy what would be better? Magneto vs Dr. X or Magneto vs Sling Shot? Yes I get that once Cooper was able to save Luara and undo her death but by doing so it screwed up the timeline. That was very obvious when you see her body wrapped in plastic disappear. The main issue I have with this series is that none of the side characters stories had no resolution and those random scenes of random people at The Roadhouse which didn't add anything. I know I called them asides like how Invitation To Love was but that shit was unneeded considering how this all ended. It was the overall narrative to these characters, you hope you give a shit for, were more fleshed out. It's like the further they went with each episode the more these subplots were just completely dropped. Again it goes into "why bother" territory. I know that there will be some people disecting, deciphering, theorizing this new seaon (just like they have for the past 25 plus years) but to me I cant see many people rewatching this season though. Why would someone rewatch say, Red's confrontation with Richard, or Hawk and Frank Truman's conversation about the living map, if they know the whole season is a dream in the lodge / parallel reality, and there is no deeper meaning to any of it. Edited September 7, 2017 by Jabberwocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseDemocracy2004 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I have more questions. Was Audrey wearing an owl cave ring during her dance? Isn't there a page from Laura's diary still missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 3 hours ago, ChineseDemocracy2004 said: I have more questions. Was Audrey wearing an owl cave ring during her dance? Isn't there a page from Laura's diary still missing? Nope. The one armed man had it. Yes but they went the old physical manifestation route. An example would be like a person could represnt fear. Laura Palmer herself was a physical representation of the missing diary page thus her name Carrie Paige (carry page) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseDemocracy2004 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Jabberwocky said: Nope. The one armed man had it. My head still aches from the finale. Wait, when MIKE gave Cooper the ring was that the same ring that Ray forgot to put on evil Cooper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabbath Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 The Leftovers ending; LOST ending > Twin Peaks ending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 32 minutes ago, ChineseDemocracy2004 said: My head still aches from the finale. Wait, when MIKE gave Cooper the ring was that the same ring that Ray forgot to put on evil Cooper? Yep. The Owl Cave Ring. Ray got it from, as he says, a prison guard when they were let out. MIKE gave the ring to Ray, Evil Coop kills Ray and puts it on his fingers and then it ends up back in The Black Lodge where he gives it to Cooper after he awakens from his Dougie persona 12 minutes ago, Black Sabbath said: The Leftovers ending; LOST ending > Twin Peaks ending I've never seen Lost but I'll take your word for it LOL. Lemme just add some of my final thoughts on this. I know it might sound repetative but here goes... Right now I think Part 18 is a gimmick ending to get another season. We dont have to turn this into something it isnt. I love Lynch and I enjoy some of his work some I I dont care for. But in this case it's so obvious. If someone like JJ Abrams had done this he would have been shit on. Lynch always get a pass on these things, and he shouldnt. I can appreciate the brilliance of The Return, and it had some amazing moments, but this idiotic ending casts shade all over that which comes before it. I mean we don't have Coop anymore, Laura isn't dead, she is very much alive, but she's not Laura anymore, instead we have someone named Carrie Paige, Palmer's house is not Palmer's house, and Coop & Diane are Richard & Linda...That all makes me feel like 25 years, 47 episodes and Fire Walk With Me was thrown away within the last half an hour. What was the point of building a story if you are going to just make a whole new plotline in the last episode what is supposedly the last episode of entire series? I like Lost Highway a lot, it works perfectly, but ''Lost Highway'' that we get in Part 18 doesn't work at all. It has been such an amazing season, and it most definitely deserved a much better ending than this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Well, this just sucks! I'm just glad I didn't have to wait 25 hours to see the new season, as I watched season 1 and 2 right before the new season. No one has 25 more years to wait for a new season, so I guess we will eventually just move on to other shows. It's a shame how this ended. Didn't like it at all. I'm just glad Ed and Norma finally got together, but everyone else seemed to have a suck ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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