The Boxing Thread

[Silverburst80]

12 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Mate, they were both telegraphing shots and carrying each other, its all a big con,  isn’t it all a bit convenient, two legends fight an 8 rounder with style that are basically a cinch for one or the other to win...it turns out a draw, both parties save face and make a few quid, thats all that was.

yeah look i get why you've not been a fan of the fight, personally i took it for what it was....i think everybody had a slight hope that they would go in on each other but didn't  happen. Was abit like one those legends games some big football clubs play, they still pack out the grounds make some money for charity and we move on.

In related news i wonder if Tyson really is going to give U-Gods mum some money to go buy some earrings 

 

[Len Cnut]

43 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said:

yeah look i get why you've not been a fan of the fight, personally i took it for what it was....i think everybody had a slight hope that they would go in on each other but didn't  happen. Was abit like one those legends games some big football clubs play, they still pack out the grounds make some money for charity and we move on.

In related news i wonder if Tyson really is going to give U-Gods mum some money to go buy some earrings 

 

That shit was as close to a fix as you can get without being choregraphed.  Telegraphed one two punch exchange, clinch, repeat.  And y'know, I don't mind that for an exhibition, its basically public sparring, I just hate when someone tries to sell me that shit like its a competitive fight. 

As far as Golden Arms, I'm sure he can afford to buy his old girl some earrings himself   He didn't say that shit like he wanted compo, he was just saying a funny story to Vlad.  Look at Zab Judah there putting on his best Ed Bradley voice, like he wasn't a fuckin' crook himself growing up

[DieselDaisy]

Take it for what it is, an eight-rounder nostalgic aggressive sparring session. At being that, it was entertaining stuff. Tyson even had the little black shoes. Warms the heart, that does. The little black shoes!!

[Len Cnut]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Take it for what it is, an eight-rounder nostalgic aggressive sparring session. At being that, it was entertaining stuff. Tyson even had the little black shoes. Warms the heart, that does. The little black shoes!!

Nostalgia porn at its best.  Interestingly, back in the day, when Roy did the unprescedented feat of going from middle to heavy and winning a world title belt a Roy v Mike fight was touted then nixed by his trainer who said 'you don't put a mack truck up against a Ford Pinto'.  But you're right, I should take it for what it is.  Its the PPV bit and the shit undercard that annoys me most, as well as the marketing of it as a competitive fight, more so the latter two bits.  I mean if you had any respect for boxing fans give us a stacked undercard, I would've been alright with that...but putting these legends, that you allegedly respect, on a card with a fucking youtuber on it, come on, its just fuckin' carnival stuff.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Every fighter that's ever stepped into the ring with Mike has done the clinch and dance routine, it's not shocking (or it shouldn't be), that Roy did that as well. Even if they fought in their prime, Roy would of had the same game plan. 

Guys HAVE  to fight that way with Mike. Even if Ali and Mike fought in their primes, Ali would have been holding him half the fight as well. The distance that Mike is MOST comfortable with, is the distance that 75% or higher of fighters are UNCOMFORTABLE fighting at, that's always been part of his allure. His inside fighting skills are literally second to none, and I mean NONE. 

Most fighters (especially more modern fighters), like fighting on the outside. When Mike bobs and weaves into that "uncomfortable zone" his opponents have ALWAYS looked to grab and hold him. What else can they do? Trade with him? That always seemed to work out well...

[Silverburst80]

10 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

 

 

10 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

That shit was as close to a fix as you can get without being choregraphed.  Telegraphed one two punch exchange, clinch, repeat.  And y'know, I don't mind that for an exhibition, its basically public sparring, I just hate when someone tries to sell me that shit like its a competitive fight. 

As far as Golden Arms, I'm sure he can afford to buy his old girl some earrings himself   He didn't say that shit like he wanted compo, he was just saying a funny story to Vlad.  Look at Zab Judah there putting on his best Ed Bradley voice, like he wasn't a fuckin' crook himself growing up

I don't think U-God is upset haha, if he was i'm sure he could of set the wolves on Mike at some point in the past, just like Fat Joe almost did to Roy Jones!

Edited November 30, 2020 by Silverburst80

[spunko12345]

On 11/29/2020 at 7:21 PM, Iron MikeyJ said:

Oh come on Len, have you actually watched it? It was pretty good. Mike looked better last night (at 54) than anytime he's looked since the first Holyfield fight imo. He just wasn't into boxing after the bite fight, he didn't train well, etc. His heart just wasn't into it anymore. It's a shame, because if he had THIS mentality back in 95, he beats Holyfield and Lewis imo. Having said that, you can't change the past, so it is what it is. It's just good to see him out there enjoying boxing again (possibly the first time since he beat Spinks honestly). 

You might say I'm crazy, but I'd go so far as to say this "fight" was one of the best heavyweight bouts of the last 10 years. It's not better than Fury vs Wilder 1 or 2, Fury vs Klitschko, Joshua vs Ruiz 1 and Joshua vs Klitschko. Beyond those fights, it's better than any other heavyweight bout you can name, and that includes Joshua vs Ruiz 2 imo. 

My biggest takeaway from last night is Mike is still Mike. He is a dangerous fighter for anyone STILL. AM I saying I think he would beat Fury at 54 years old? No. Nor do I think he would beat Joshua (unless he lands a big shot). But I DO think he could hang with them. Do I want to see him fight them? No. I've already seen Mike lose when past his prime, so I'm not interested to in watching more of that. 

What about Wilder? That's the ONLY current fighter I would get excited about. Fury and Joshua are too big for Mike at 54. They will hold him, and put their weight on him to wear him out, then win in the later rounds. Wilder on the other hand isn't "bigger" than Mike. Taller yes, but not heavier. Plus when you add the fact that Wilder isn't a great boxer, bad footwork, etc. I DO think Mike could take him, right now. Plus Wilder is stupid enough to want to fight him. 

Last night, Mike went to the body all night long (probably because it was a lower knockout possiblity than going for the head). But by doing that, he did two things. Firstly, he became WAY too much of a head hunter post prison (arguably after Rooney left). It was his secret weapon in his early career, he chopped down big guys by going to the body. Somebody like Wilder, Mike would hurt his body like he's never known. Secondly, Mike was the fresher man throughout the fight. Which isn't something ANYONE expected. Mike went 8, 2 minute rounds EASILY. How would he do in 3 minute rounds, of a 12 round fight, thats yet to be seen. But if I'm honest, I don't think Wilder would last into the late rounds against him.

I'm just calling things like I see them, yes I am a bias Tyson fan. But I've always been honest about his career. Having said that, I HONESTLY believe Mike could KO Wilder right now, today. Wilder's style is kinda like Lennox Lewis style, but without the brains, footwork, or technical ability. Lennox was prepared on how to deal with Mike's ferocity. I don't believe Wilder has the skills to handle Mike's pressure. Obviously, Wilder could land his big right hand, but that's ALL he has. Mike would attack his ribs, slow him down, tire hims out, then when Wilder lowers his hands, land the big shot. I feel VERY strongly that Mike would take him out. Honestly, I would LOVE to see Wilder pick up a belt, fight Mike, and have Mike be the youngest nd oldest heavyweight champ. That would be a perfect ending to his career.

Having said all of that, I don't see Mike doing anything other than these exhibitions. Which are fun, and a good show imo.

 

BTW, last night was NOTHING like those exhibitions he did in the 2000s. I agree those where awful. Those were just sparring sessions. Last night was MUCH better than those.

I can't believe that you are a fan of Tyson if you'd want to see him to fight Wilder. At least not in the sense that you wouldn't like to see him get seriously hurt.

[Iron MikeyJ]

2 hours ago, spunko12345 said:

I can't believe that you are a fan of Tyson if you'd want to see him to fight Wilder. At least not in the sense that you wouldn't like to see him get seriously hurt.

Wilder telegraph's his punches. I honestly don't believe he has the technical ability to be in there with Mike. IMO he wouldn't of been able to even crack the top 10 back in the 90s. Forget Tyson, Holyfield, or Lewis; Wilder wasn't beating Tommy Morrison, Frank Bruno, Razor Ruddock, Riddick Bowe, Foreman or even Holmes. 

Honestly Fury is the only one that would of been trouble in the 70s, 80's, 90's, etc. Joshua I believe would of been a really solid fighter in any era as well, but I can't see him beating some of those guys I mentioned either, but I think he would have fared better than Wilder. 

So even in his advanced age, I just don't think he has the actual boxing skill to beat Mike. I'm not going to say Mike would just run him over (he would have in 88, but not now). I also don't feel that Tyson would beat him 10/10 times currently either. But I would give Mike the 6/10 odds advantage over him. 

Think about it like this, look what Fury did to him. Went in there, out boxed him and took the fight to Wilder. He couldn't handle the pressure. That's Mike's #1 ability, applying pressure. Mike would destroy his skinny mid section with those body shots. Wilder HAS to land the big right hand, that's all he has. 

Honestly if you are Wilder (or his people), you don't want ANY part of Mike (unless you just want a pay day). Styles make fights, and Mike Tyson is a HORRIBLE style for Wilder, if you want Wilder to flourish. Joshua is a FAR better matchup for him. If I'm Wilder THATS the fight I want, not Fury, not Mike. Fury will lay him out again and his career will be pretty much over. Same goes for if he fights Mike. If Mike kos him, or even beats him on points, it's a BAD look for Wilder. Even if he beats Mike, he beat an old, past prime Mike. No HUGE win, not anymore. He doesn't have anything to really gain (other than money), for even thinking about fighting Mike. Having said that, with all the crap he's talked about Mike, it wouldn't shock me if he is dumb enough to WANT to fight him. 

Honestly just watch the two of them train. Wilder literally does NOTHING as good as Mike can, even at 54 years old. Age is literally his ONLY advantage. The big bad power puncher got BEAT UP by a guy (Fury) that's NEVER been known as a power puncher. That's SERIOUSLY telling about his boxing skills.

The ONLY other times that top, serious heavyweight champions got punked like Wilder did was when Joe Frazier got beat down by George Foreman (but it was freaking Foreman), when Lennox Lewis got rocked by Rahman (but Lewis got revenge, Lennox got punked twice in his career but avenged both losses), and when Patterson got punked by Liston in their rematch (but again it was Sonny Liston.) My point being, it's not just the fact that Fury won. It's not even that Fury koed him, it's HOW Fury Koed him. He done BURIED that boy. Wilder's career is hanging in the balance right now. If he fights Fury again, and loses badly again, he's no longer considered elite (not while Fury is still in the picture). Which again, Fury is NOT a power puncher, so that makes it even worse. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Iron MikeyJ

[Len Cnut]

Some good fights this weekend, Billy Joe Saunders v Martin Murray on Fri, Anthony Yarde vs Lyndon Arthur on Saturday and Sunday morning (or Saturday night if you’re a yank) we have Errol Spence vs Danny Garcia.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Len Cnut

[DieselDaisy]

There are rumblings of an, for lack of a better description, ''old people's league'', Lewis, Riddick Bowe and Holyfield joining Iron Mike and Jones Jr. It would be ironic if it gained larger public interest than regular boxing, and would be in complete accordance with how rock music and Hollywood evolved to their present positioning.

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

There are rumblings of an, for lack of a better description, ''old people's league'', Lewis, Riddick Bowe and Holyfield joining Iron Mike and Jones Jr. It would be ironic if it gained larger public interest than regular boxing, and would be in complete accordance with how rock music and Hollywood evolved to their present positioning.

Its more than rumblings, its what this fight last weekend was supposed to be the start of.  

[DieselDaisy]

37 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Its more than rumblings, its what this fight last weekend was supposed to be the start of.  

A league of old knackers. 

[action]

I'm by no means a boxing connoisseur, but roy sure was breathing heavy towards the end, tyson not so much.

maybe it was meant to be staged, but I don't think roy being gassed like that was part of the plan.

it was a good fight, yes a fight, tyson has somewhat repaired his legacy with this. And I believe he won this fight.

[Len Cnut]

56 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

A league of old knackers. 

I don’t have nothing against it per se, I just wouldn’t pay 20 quid a pop for it.  And remember I’m the mug who always pays the PPV when everyone says its a liberty, including yourself if you recall, I’ll pay all day for current championship fights but I’ll be damned if I’m paying for exhibition fights.

[moreblack]

9 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

He done BURIED that boy. Wilder's career is hanging in the balance right now. If he fights Fury again, and loses badly again, he's no longer considered elite (not while Fury is still in the picture). Which again, Fury is NOT a power puncher, so that makes it even worse. 

Although if you watch the way Wilder talks on his social media, he's almost sure he was winning 
Or that he only lost because:

• they poisoned his water
• heavy costume
• Fury's illegal gloves

Edited December 1, 2020 by moreblack

[DieselDaisy]

Maybe my memory is dodgy but the peek-a-boo style was far more evident in the exhibition than it was at the tail end of Tyson's proper career, v Lewis etc., when I seem to recall it virtually disappearing. 

[Iron MikeyJ]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Maybe my memory is dodgy but the peek-a-boo style was far more evident in the exhibition than it was at the tail end of Tyson's proper career, v Lewis etc., when I seem to recall it virtually disappearing. 

It VERY much was. Tyson got away from that style after Rooney left. He still used it from time to time, but he became more of a brawler, a head hunter just looking to land the big shot. He wasted his prime years just looking to land one big shot, instead of the combinations, head movement, body shots that set up the big shots earlier in his career. The first Bruno fight was the first fight without Rooney, and Tyson got hit WAY more in that fight than his previous 2 or 3 fights combined. He just went out there and tried to overwhelm his opponents with his power. Which it worked more often than not, sure. But it's also why he lost to Douglas, then Holyfield, and eventually to Lewis. That's why I say the REAL Mike Tyson never lost. The real Tyson was a master of the peak a boo style, threw combinations with deadly intentions, chopped down bigger fighters by going to the body, and had elusive head movement. 

[Iron MikeyJ]

2 hours ago, moreblack said:

Although if you watch the way Wilder talks on his social media, he's almost sure he was winning 
Or that he only lost because:

• they poisoned his water
• heavy costume
• Fury's illegal gloves

His ego is shaken right now. That's why it's insane that he wants to fight Fury again. Fury will end his career (essentially imo). He will most likely box again, even after another Fury loss, but Fury provided the blue print to beat him. What heavyweights out there can do to him what Fury did is another question. But Wilder being even considered an all time heavyweight is academic imo, that ship has sailed. Unless he pulls off the incredible, but he doesn't have that Fury/Ali/Holyfield mentality to do it.

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

His ego is shaken right now. That's why it's insane that he wants to fight Fury again. Fury will end his career (essentially imo). He will most likely box again, even after another Fury loss, but Fury provided the blue print to beat him. What heavyweights out there can do to him what Fury did is another question. But Wilder being even considered an all time heavyweight is academic imo, that ship has sailed. Unless he pulls off the incredible, but he doesn't have that Fury/Ali/Holyfield mentality to do it.

Lets be really clear though (largely for my own amusement ) of all the things he's accused Fury of.

1. Mark Breland sold him out.  Mark was in his corner, he threw in the towel, he works with Wilders corner and, previously, had been a gym-mate of some of the people in Furys corner and thus, sold him out and threw in the towel.  So, to be clear, he sold out the heavyweight champion of the world, cuz his ex-gymmate said so   He sold out his meal ticket, his livelihood (and a handsome one it is, relatively speaking), a heavyweight champ of 10 title defences (which is Ali's record, not that the opponents are of equivalent calibre)...to do his mate a good turn  

 

2. Fury took the padding out of his glove.  There are multiple pictures online of gloves, mid-fight, with Furys knuckles showing through the padding.

 

3. Fury put an egg shaped object in his glove that caused the various injuries.  An egg shaped steel object which, by the way, was invisible in the previous pic of the knuckles showing through the allegedly padding-less gloves.  And, for some reason, this hard egg shaped object didn't break Furys knuckles...but did break Wilders head.

 

4. the suit he wore in to the ring was SO heavy that it took his legs out.  40lbs apparently it weighed.  Apparently this destroys a heavyweight champions legs.  A heavyweight champion who, previously, has posted videos of him doing conditioning work whilst wearing a 40 lbs weighted vest

 

5. Fury paid his trainer Jay Deas, a previously unknown trainer who basically made his name training Deontay Wilder, has been with him since his first day in the gym.  This trainer has since been caught by youtube scamps picking up a package from the ring apron after a mid round break, he claims it was gauze  theorists claim it was 'heroin or cocaine'.  Really, cocaine?!?  

 

6. My favourite, (and he said this on the Joe Rogan podcast btw) Fury put a Gypsys curse on him  

 

7. He smelt alcohol on the breath of Kenny Bayliss, referee  

 

8. Fury scratched him in his earlobe, causing the bleeding (through his gloves somehow, the ones that either had padding taken out or had a hard egg shaped object in them that became hard when connecting with Wilders head but miraculously softened on the other side to escape damaging Furys knuckles ).

 

9. Furys had his hand low in the glove, where the laces are, something the commision and WBC and his corner didn't notice, the ref didn't notice because obviously he was pissed and evidence is that if you watch replay vids you can see his gloves move at the top.  Nothing to do with him smacking a jab in Wilders face at the time, of course.  And if this was the case why take the padding out?  And if the padding was out where's the hard egg shaped object?  

 

BTW, for those who don't know, when you get your hands wrapped for boxing backstage, there is a member of the athletic commission present, a member of the governing authority of the belt and in case they're both bent a member of your own corner present while the opposing corner does the hand wraps, all this to ensure that there is no funny business.  So, what Wilder is saying is that Fury has enough money to pay off his corner (if you're gonna take a bribe to sell out your meal ticket logic would suggest that that bribe is of the kind of money that will supercede your earnings as a cornerman of the heavyweight champion of the world so we have to be talking millions here, for both Deas and Breland), the athletic commision, the WBC...my questions is if Fury has that kind of money, why the fuck is he boxing?

 

Apparently Donald Trump ain't the only yank who can't hold an L  (sorry Americans, you know I love you really!)

Edited December 1, 2020 by Len Cnut

[Iron MikeyJ]

The thing about Wilder for me is I did really like him for a while. His rise to the top was similar to Mike's, they both fought tomato cans for the first 20 or so fights, just build up their records. They both are big punchers as well, so I was watching him. Having said that, I was never a fan of his "style" (if that's what you can call it). He fights like a poor man's Lennox Lewis (without the technical skills or strategy), which I was not a fan of, but whatever. I was also not a fan of his ring walks (Roy Jones started that crap, but whatever), costumes, or calling himself the "bronze bomber". But I could over look those things for the sake of the sport of boxing. I even "rooted" for him in the first Fury fight and felt the draw was justified. I believe you have to take the championship, not look for a win on points. You gotta take it to the champ to beat them. 

Where he lost me was first in the Fury rematch. He straight got punked, no other word for it. Then the excuses... The final straw was when he started running his mouth about Mike. He said crap like "I punch harder than Mike", "I beat better fighters than Mike", etc. Which is such garbage coming from an alphabet champion. I don't consider him or Joshua true champions yet, Fury yes but those two no. Back in the day, fighters wanted to be UNDISPUTED Champion. Now they are happy with a "piece" of the title. I blame Mayweather for this, and the Klitchkos.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Iron MikeyJ

[Len Cnut]

6 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

The thing about Wilder for me is I did really like him for a while. His rise to the top was similar to Mike's, they both fought tomato cans for the first 20 or so fights, just build up their records. They both are big punchers as well, so I was watching him. Having said that, I was never a fan of his "style" (if that's what you can call it). He fights like a poor man's Lennox Lewis (without the technical skills or strategy), which I was not a fan of, but whatever. I was also not a fan of his ring walks, costumes, or calling himself the "bronze bomber". But I could over look those things for the sake of the sport of boxing. I even "rooted" for him in the first Fury fight mad felt the draw was justified. I believe you have to take the championship, not look for a win on points. You gotta take it to the champ to beat them. 

Where he lost me was first in the Fury rematch. He straight got punked, no other word for it. Then the excuses... The final straw was when he started running his mouth about Mike. He said crap like "I punch harder than Mike", "I beat better fighters than Mike", etc. Which is such garbage coming from an alphabet champion. I don't consider him or Joshua true champions yet, Fury yes but those two no. Back in the day, fighters wanted to be UNDISPUTED Champion. Now they are happy with a "piece" of the title. I blame Mayweather for this, and the Klitchkos.

Everyone fights ‘easy’ fights early on, you only think they’re easy cuz you’re a fan, developing fighters don’t find them easy, Tyson didn’t fight ‘tomato cans’ as everyone says just as Wilder didn’t fight all bums, Eric Molina is not a bad fighter, Gerard Washington is not a bad fighter, Bermane Stiverne is not a bad fighter, Dominic Brazeale is not a bad fighter, Luis Ortiz is not at all a bad fighter, its a weakened division but a man can only fight who is around.  Even the great Joe Louis, a man who, in my book is second only to Ali, had a lot of ‘soft’ opponents on his record but thats only cuz he cleared out the division.

Problem these days is we think in extremes.  Wilder is neither a total bum nor a fearsome hard punching heavyweight of the kind I would call someone like Mike Tyson, Wilder is what he is, a man with world class skills but world class flaws to go with them.  
 

Also, AJ is easily a true champ, he’s fought better men is a shorter time than both Wilder and Fury.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Len Cnut

[Iron MikeyJ]

18 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Everyone fights ‘easy’ fights early on, you only think they’re easy cuz you’re a fan, developing fighters don’t find them easy, Tyson didn’t fight ‘tomato cans’ as everyone says just as Wilder didn’t fight all bums, Eric Molina is not a bad fighter, Gerard Washington is not a bad fighter, Bermane Stiverne is not a bad fighter, Dominic Brazeale is not a bad fighter, Luis Ortiz is not at all a bad fighter, its a weakened division but a man can only fight who is around.  Even the great Joe Louis, a man who, in my book is second only to Ali, had a lot of ‘soft’ opponents on his record but thats only cuz he cleared out the division.

Problem these days is we think in extremes.  Wilder is neither a total bum nor a fearsome hard punching heavyweight of the kind I would call someone like Mike Tyson, Wilder is what he is, a man with world class skills but world class flaws to go with them.  
 

Also, AJ is easily a true champ, he’s fought better men is a shorter time than both Wilder and Fury.

By "tomato cans" I mean what the boxing critics would say, but I agree with you. 

I agree with what you said about "you can only fight who's there at that time" which is absolutely true. I don't hold opponents of an era against anyone, but when you compare eras (like Wilder did with Mike), that's when you call a spade a spade. At this point in their careers (Mike and Wilder), Tyson fought better opponents and took them out in far greater fashion, as well captured ALL the belts, it's just some BS for Wilder to talk like that. If George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Evander Holyfield, or Lennox Lewis want to compare resumes with Mike's then they have a point. But Deontay Wilder? No, not having it. 

As for AJ... Let's see how it all pans out. He's the unknown for me at this point. As we sit here today, he's Frank Bruno for me. If I put Fran Bruno in AJ's place, does much change? If I put AJ back in Bruno's place, does much change? I don't think it does. Which isn't a knock, I like Frank. He just came up in a really tough era, he'd be at the top in this era imo.

As for AJs record, the Klitchko win was HUGE, yes. But Fury already beat him. Fury ended the Klitchko era, not AJ. In the last 10 years the 4 best fighters have been Fury, AJ, Wilder, and Klitchko (not in that order, but those guys). Fury beat 2 of them, while they were still on top. Plus AJ DID lose to Ruiz. Having said that, his resume is solid, yes. But he's still just an alphabet champ at this point man.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Iron MikeyJ

[Iron MikeyJ]

I have that "old school" (well 80's old school, lol) mentality when it comes to boxing. You gotta come in, clear out the division, and get all the belts. Being the UNDISPUTED Champion means WAY MORE than being WBC champion. You gotta go out there and take them all. After you've had all the belts, if you want to drop one (for some reason), then whatever, but you gotta get them first. So having said that, we have not had a TRUE UNDISPUTED Heavyweight Champion since Lennox Lewis retired. We've had a bunch of guys pass around the 3 or now 4 belts. Tyson Fury is one win against AJ away from changing that.

Thats why I have a hard time rating the Klitchkos. They were both really good fighters that would of been hard to deal with in any era. But neither of them actually reigned as UNDISPUTED, they always allowed others to have belts, including each other. So when people talk title defenses, lineal champ, or anything "historical" context matters. You can not give me ANY proof that Wlads title defenses are anywhere near as impressive as Joe Louis. Back when there were less divisions and one champion per division.

I heard Mayweather run his mouth about having beat more "champions" than any fighter in history. Of course you did, you fought at how many weigh classes with 4 titles per weight class. But that makes you better than Sugar Ray Robinson? Muhammad Ali? Get outta here with your alphabet nonsense. 

Us boxing fans gotta hold them accountable Len. Or they will use crap like that to spin history int their favor. Mayweather also called the "philly shell" the "Mayweather shell" because he said "I perfected it, it's not the Philly Shell anymore, it's the Mayweather Shell. I own it now."

[DieselDaisy]

3 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I have that "old school" (well 80's old school, lol) mentality when it comes to boxing. You gotta come in, clear out the division, and get all the belts. Being the UNDISPUTED Champion means WAY MORE than being WBC champion. You gotta go out there and take them all. After you've had all the belts, if you want to drop one (for some reason), then whatever, but you gotta get them first. So having said that, we have not had a TRUE UNDISPUTED Heavyweight Champion since Lennox Lewis retired. We've had a bunch of guys pass around the 3 or now 4 belts. Tyson Fury is one win against AJ away from changing that.

Thats why I have a hard time rating the Klitchkos. They were both really good fighters that would of been hard to deal with in any era. But neither of them actually reigned as UNDISPUTED, they always allowed others to have belts, including each other. So when people talk title defenses, lineal champ, or anything "historical" context matters. You can not give me ANY proof that Wlads title defenses are anywhere near as impressive as Joe Louis. Back when there were less divisions and one champion per division.

I heard Mayweather run his mouth about having beat more "champions" than any fighter in history. Of course you did, you fought at how many weigh classes with 4 titles per weight class. But that makes you better than Sugar Ray Robinson? Muhammad Ali? Get outta here with your alphabet nonsense. 

Us boxing fans gotta hold them accountable Len. Or they will use crap like that to spin history int their favor. Mayweather also called the "philly shell" the "Mayweather shell" because he said "I perfected it, it's not the Philly Shell anymore, it's the Mayweather Shell. I own it now."

The odds are deliberately stacked to prevent that now. In Louis and Ali's day there were only two sanctioning bodies. Tyson and Lewis'? Three. Now there are four and the WBA have weird stuff like like ''super'' champion and ''interim'' which nobody understands. 

The only belt which sort of counts is the Ring one as that represents the lineal championship, or Ring's own version of the lineal. The rest are a bunch of alphabet bollocks.  

[Iron MikeyJ]

4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

The odds are deliberately stacked to prevent that now. In Louis and Ali's day there were only two sanctioning bodies. Tyson and Lewis'? Three. Now there are four and the WBA have weird stuff like like ''super'' champion and ''interim'' which nobody understands. 

The only belt which sort of counts is the Ring one as that represents the lineal championship, or Ring's own version of the lineal. The rest are a bunch of alphabet bollocks.  

Oh I think the WBC, WBA and IBF (WBO to a lesser degree) mean something. I'm not just trashing the sanctioning bodies. What I'm saying is that fighters are no longer encouraged to go after all the belts (if anything they seem to be discouraged from it). At the end of the day, a fighter should WANT to be the best, without doubt. The way to do that hasn't changed, get all the belts and clear out the division. Fighters (all athletes anymore really) are more interested in preserving their legacies than actually earning them.