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I don't know if I ever told you this Len, but Chris Byrd used to live a couple of houses down from me. When I was 16 or so, I knocked on his door, met him and his wife, and got a signed picture. He was a good (not great) fighter. I didn't care for his style, but a good guy.

I asked him about fighting Tyson, Holyfield, and Lewis he said "I want to fight them all, and I think I can beat them." He DID beat Holy for a belt a few of years later. He ended up moving to Vegas, and I think got with Don King a bit.

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It is, yes   Up North they even bung it on the end of sentences, inexplicably!  Example: Normal Human Being:  Alright Ted, where you off to? Northern Pig:  I’m off up t’pub like!

The fight that Leonard claimed 'taught me survival' and also led to his retina problems later.

Can I just say, I think it's freaking ridiculous that the wresteling thread has over 100 pages and the boxing thread is almost to 60. Just goes to show the amount of straight up wankers that populate

@DieselDaisy @Len CnutCnut,

I could talk boxing with you guys all day long. Talking to you two is really the only reason I even post here anymore, lol. Not just about boxing, but I appreciate getting your perspectives from across the pond. 

anyways...

How would you guys rate fighters like Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe, etc. Outside of Joe Louis, which of those early guys do you like?

for me, Jack Johnson has always been an interesting fighter. I would have loved to see him in the ring with other early greats like Dempsey or even Joe Louis. I'm not sure he beats Louis, but it's an interesting thought. 

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16 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

@DieselDaisy @Len CnutCnut,

I could talk boxing with you guys all day long. Talking to you two is really the only reason I even post here anymore, lol. Not just about boxing, but I appreciate getting your perspectives from across the pond. 

anyways...

How would you guys rate fighters like Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe, etc. Outside of Joe Louis, which of those early guys do you like?

for me, Jack Johnson has always been an interesting fighter. I would have loved to see him in the ring with other early greats like Dempsey or even Joe Louis. I'm not sure he beats Louis, but it's an interesting thought. 

They were all their own kinds of brilliant, Ezzard Charles perhaps the most underrated of them and least respected historically but he was a fucking monster, were it not for Marciano he would’ve been the name of the 50s.  Tunney was a huge evolutionary leap, lateral movement and footwork of a kind unseen in the HW division prior to that.  Jersey Joes best talent was the unpredictability of his shots, strange awkward clubbing overhand shots and short hooks to the body, go look at his stance and hand placement, it was weird and off kilter but it meant he hit you with shots you couldn’t see or predict.  
 

Dempsey and Johnson, again, evolutionary leaps, boxing pre Johnson was...heavyweight here, was mostly just big circus freak looking fuckers (they look small compared to todays lads), Johnson gave you feints, angles, tied fighters up, thats why he really pissed over the top competition of his day.  The man was a phenom’, he was handling pros in sparring even later in his life, there’s rumours he handled Joe Louis I think, in a spar.  
 

Dempsey, again, was an evolutionary leap but what really set him apart was his fuckin’ viciousness, Dempseys brother says no one ever really saw the all of Dempsey, that was seen in the boxcars and barrooms, you caught a glimpse of it against Firpo when the guy put him down and he got up and just smashed him.  A proper proper vicious bastard, he had that fuckin two arm wave punch that I cant remember the name of, those sweeping combos and swung so far but kinda used the arms as a kind of makeshift defence.

Watch Dempsey Willard and its like two different eras meeting, Willards this big lumbering old time fighter and Dempsey, in 1919, is slipping and moving and weaving and getting inside, quality stuff.

Edited by Len Cnut
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2 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Anybody care to hear my thoughts in regards to Holyfield?

Dude was on roids for the Tyson fights. For one, he WAS named in a steroid clinic controversy. For two, look at his career, the dude was a cruiserweight and ended up being bigger than Mike. Tyson was naturally a heavyweight, Holyfield was not. 

My final piece of evidence is his first title run. He weighed less, looked smaller, etc during this run. He also had hair (which roids effects that). In the third Bowe fight, Holyfield was WASHED. I've never seen another fighter look so old, wore out, and just plain DONE as Holyfield looked in that 3rd fight. Yes he said he had a "heart condition" then two years later magically goes away (which is questionable). 

Then he comes back, bigger and better than ever. IDK, when you add it all up, sounds like roids to me. I'm not knocking his first title run, I think he was clean then. He got in the ring with Bowe for the first fight, and wasn't sure if he could hang at heavy anymore. But I WILL give him the 2nd fight with Bowe, he earned that one (and might have been clean for it as well). But after the loss to Michael Moore, then to Riddick for the 2nd time (and looked bad during that loss), I can't think of another story quite like that. What fighter has looked DONE like that, and come back better than ever? Usually when they are washed, they are done, it's over. 

Then for the Tyson fight, he comes back bigger and better than ever. It just doesn't "feel" right to me. Tyson has alluded to it in interviews. He's never said "Holyfield was on roids" but he HAS said "I wanted them to know I was BETTER than them, man to man, without help" and "guys wanted to get that extra edge, everybody knew." Given that Holyfield was named in a steroid controversy, who else could he be alluding to?

There’s very little doubt that he was on steroids.  I remember hearing somewhere his wife was a ‘pain management specialist’.  I think steroids are much ado about nothing, an song Tyson beats Holy’, steroids or no steroids.  A lot more boxers are than is known, Roy Jones had his little steroids controversy, Pacman is also suspect in that regard.

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Plus Jersey Joe Walcott has the best ''boxer's name'' in the history of the sport. 

This is one of the best documentaries ever made - must've watched it about five times,

 

I think its a disgrace setting Mike Tyson to rock music :lol:  This is the correct soundtrack to Mike:

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Did you ever see Trevs car park brawl with Larry Holmes?

 

I HAVE seen this before. Honestly, people like to talk about the Tyson vs Lewis prefight brawl, but this one was worse. Holmes jumping off a car... That's epic.

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7 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I HAVE seen this before. Honestly, people like to talk about the Tyson vs Lewis prefight brawl, but this one was worse. Holmes jumping off a car... That's epic.

Sailing through the air like a piano dropped off a cliff 😂

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10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Just watching Berbick being sized up by Tyson and he was already shitting his pants. My god. Feel sorry for him. 

Berbick is an interesting fighter. I like all those guys from that late 70s early 80s era. I own this book called "Facing Tyson" and it tells the stories of all these different guys leading up and after their bouts with Tyson. I believe the same guy also did one called "Facing Ali". Anyways, I can't remember all the guys in the book off the top of my head, but the Bone crusher Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Tyrell Biggs, Trevor Berbick, etc were all really good, solid heavyweights. 

That era (after Holmes and before Tyson) was similar to what happened after Lennox Lewis retired, the heavyweight division was in shambles. Holmes pretty much got screwed out of his titles, and Spinks didn't defend. So all the belts got scrambled around (although, if memory serves, Holmes dropped a belt or two along the way). But what that era DID have was Tyson on the way. So it was only in "shambles" for a year or two, not the going on 20 that it's been now. 

On the flip side though, when the belts get scattered like that, it creates alphabet champions that can claim a portion of the title. Which leads to interesting fights (like what's going on now). A guy like Andy Ruiz can rise to the top of the division. That's essentially what happened back then as well with the guys I just mentioned.

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11 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Berbick is an interesting fighter. I like all those guys from that late 70s early 80s era. I own this book called "Facing Tyson" and it tells the stories of all these different guys leading up and after their bouts with Tyson. I believe the same guy also did one called "Facing Ali". Anyways, I can't remember all the guys in the book off the top of my head, but the Bone crusher Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Tyrell Biggs, Trevor Berbick, etc were all really good, solid heavyweights. 

That era (after Holmes and before Tyson) was similar to what happened after Lennox Lewis retired, the heavyweight division was in shambles. Holmes pretty much got screwed out of his titles, and Spinks didn't defend. So all the belts got scrambled around (although, if memory serves, Holmes dropped a belt or two along the way). But what that era DID have was Tyson on the way. So it was only in "shambles" for a year or two, not the going on 20 that it's been now. 

On the flip side though, when the belts get scattered like that, it creates alphabet champions that can claim a portion of the title. Which leads to interesting fights (like what's going on now). A guy like Andy Ruiz can rise to the top of the division. That's essentially what happened back then as well with the guys I just mentioned.

Berbick was a bad motherfucker too, he’s dead now, if I recall correctly his nephew shot him in Jamaica.

Did you not think Facing Ali was a crock of shit?  I mean it was great to hear from Georgie Chuvalo (another tragic life, lost two sons to drugs and a wife to suicide as she couldn’t handle her sons death) but all that bullshit from Veronica ‘I saw God in Ali’s eyes’, give me a fuckin’ break, I mean he’s a great man and all but lets not be silly here.  
 

The man you wanna hear from in a Facing Tyson is Mitch Green :lol:  

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23 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I used to collect these dvds with all the old fights. Still have them. They originally were on VHS and came with a magazine - you bought them in a newsagents - then they plonked them on dvd later on. 

Oh I know the ones!  Oh what the fuck were they called now?  The first video was Rumble in the Jungle weren't it, free with this little magazine.  Fighters or Fights or...no, I'm not even close, fuck knows but I know the ones you mean.

The advent of youtube is a treasure trove for me, people forget how hard it was to fuckin' watch old fights back in the day, now since youtube I'm like a rat in a cakeshop, most times if I'm not doing nothing or watching a film I'll be watching some old fight from fuck knows when.  But in them days it was like you had fuck all.  They did these odd retrospectives on VHS every time a fighter got a little fame, you'd get Tyson, Naseem Hamed, Frank Bruno in some bargain bin thing...other than that, nothing.

I remember this video collection that came out, you found it in newsagents for 3.99 a pop, it was basically episodes of some American TV show presented by Marv Albert and Fredie Pachecho where they'd show and then analyze a fight.  Overall though there was just fuck all.  You read about it.  I first saw Duran vs Ken Buchanan on the magazine video thing you were talking about.

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