Medication and children

[bran]

Edit

Lol. So because a few kids fake being sick to get drugs that means the entire system is corrupt? Seriously, that's your guys example and defense?

That's like saying a black kid in my class got caught shoplifting. So ALL blacks must be thieves.

You guys are getting ridiculous now.

look up florida pill mills. your experience is yours from where you are, different places have vastly different problems which leads to different viewpoints on things. in the state of florida if you have cash there is 0 limit to what you can get. painkillers, ritalins, xanax you name it you get it. this goes for teens as well. this isnt just limited to young kids getting over prescribed but the nation as a whole.

[Len Cnut]

and it's great that you didn't experience depression

Y'know what i think? I think there are people out there who experience that shit in a really really REALLY acute way but they deal with it within themselves, privately, they moderate their own mentality, they recognise different types of behaviour at different times to handle that shit and then go along with their lives.

Now does that mean that, perhaps, those people don't feel it as acutely as the others? Or maybe it means that they don't take the easy way out. Whens all said and done, to a specific kind of depressed person, there ain't a shit a doctor can tell you about yourself that you don't already know. And y'know what else those people don't do? Write big confessional 'wa-hey, look at me!' bullshit on facebook and wave their fuckin' dicks around giving it the big 'I am' before their spectacular suicide bid. MAYBE there are people out there handle that shit despite feeling somewhere in em that they don't see a point to life and consider suicide...but then another part of em thinks 'yknow what? fuck you. I'm not right, I'm fucked up? Well I'm doin' this regardless'.

And maybe those people take it to their graves with them because along with their depression being acute so is there sense of dignity. Maybe there are people out there that feel depression in a way a lot of people couldn't even comprehend and take the fact that they were victims of depression to their fuckin' grave with them. Perhaps there are those that feel that trying to re-configure a natural chemical imbalance in your head using chemical is not always the answer.

Maybe there should be more focus on assisting certain people in managing their emotions? Maybe chemical shit should be the last resort. Also, there is a difference between heightening awareness and encouraging and proliferating something that is potentially damaging to people.

Yes, that's all the depressed kids need, just a slap

I truly truly believe some of them do, sorry

Edited March 3, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Facekicker]

Len check this out

[bran]

and it's great that you didn't experience depression

Y'know what i think? I think there are people out there who experience that shit in a really really REALLY acute way but they deal with it within themselves, privately, they moderate their own mentality, they recognise different types of behaviour at different times to handle that shit and then go along with their lives.

Now does that mean that, perhaps, those people don't feel it as acutely as the others? Or maybe it means that they don't take the easy way out. Whens all said and done, to a specific kind of depressed person, there ain't a shit a doctor can tell you about yourself that you don't already know. And y'know what else those people don't do? Write big confessional 'wa-hey, look at me!' bullshit on facebook and wave their fuckin' dicks around giving it the big 'I am' before their spectacular suicide bid. MAYBE there are people out there handle that shit despite feeling somewhere in em that they don't see a point to life and consider suicide...but then another part of em thinks 'yknow what? fuck you. I'm not right, I'm fucked up? Well I'm doin' this regardless'.

And maybe those people take it to their graves with them because along with their depression being acute so is there sense of dignity. Maybe there are people out there that feel depression in a way a lot of people couldn't even comprehend and take the fact that they were victims of depression to their fuckin' grave with them. Perhaps there are those that feel that trying to re-configure a natural chemical imbalance in your head using chemical is not always the answer.

Maybe there should be more focus on assisting certain people in managing their emotions? Maybe chemical shit should be the last resort. Also, there is a difference between heightening awareness and encouraging and proliferating something that is potentially damaging to people.

Yes, that's all the depressed kids need, just a slap

I truly truly believe some of them do, sorry

doctors put me on meds for depression but they made me feel funny and i quit taking them and manage it myself. i know a lot of people cant manage it themselves and need help but in my experience it just made things worse.

[MB.]

By the way I have lectured in a university here for the past few years and to date have yet to meet a student with either of these disorders.

In all fairness, kids with real ADHD or ADD you will probably never see on the university. They are already happy if they manage to get through high school. So if somebody on the university states he got ADHD, I personally would question that. Not saying it can't be done, but it's very unlikely.

You are right that the doctor who documented ADHD first has questioned some things. He didn't really question if it existed or not. He did indeed question how easy some doctors are diagnosing and prescribing drugs to kids, without looking at external factors or a good and long examination in the US.

I can say this though, in my country it's very difficult to get a ADHD diagnosis or medicine for kids. A normal doctor can't prescribe it, only a psychiatrist can and only after a long examination by a team of multiple people, every case is discussed by a whole team of phychiatrists. It seems to be totally different in the US. Or maybe it's different in some parts in the US, probably the rich parts.

Edited March 3, 2015 by MB.

[Facekicker]

By the way I have lectured in a university here for the past few years and to date have yet to meet a student with either of these disorders.

In all fairness, kids with real ADHD or ADD you will probably never see on the university. They are already happy if they manage to get through high school. So if somebody on the university states he got ADHD, I personally would question that. Not saying it can't be done, but it's very unlikely.

You are right that the doctor who documented ADHD first has questioned some things. He didn't really question if it existed or not. He did indeed question how easy some doctors are diagnosing and prescribing drugs to kids, without looking at external factors or a good and long examination in the US.

I can say this though, in my country it's very difficult to get a ADHD diagnosis or medicine for kids. A normal doctor can't prescribe it, only a psychiatrist can and only after a long examination by a team of multiple people, every case is discussed by a whole team of phychiatrists. It seems to be totally different in the US. Or maybe it's different in some parts in the US, probably the rich parts.

That's precisely why I thought it so weird how in the college I attended in the U.S. was full of people with ADD and ADHD. Of course many of these students were just after the drugs but not all. And at that the "genuine" ones were somewhat suspect in my opinion.

[GivenToFly]

And despite Mr. Credentials above attempting to dismiss this issue as merely the concerns of "unqualified" people he couldn't be further from the truth.

Look, the degree thing was part of a sarcastic joke. Obviously I don't expect people to be formally qualified in everything they talk about. But when I made that reply this thread was full of people circlejerking about how tough their generation was and how weak this one is (with Len failing to grasp the concept of mental illness). I haven't read what's been posted since; I will now.

[Len Cnut]

And despite Mr. Credentials above attempting to dismiss this issue as merely the concerns of "unqualified" people he couldn't be further from the truth.

Look, the degree thing was part of a sarcastic joke. Obviously I don't expect people to be formally qualified in everything they talk about. But when I made that reply this thread was full of people circlejerking about how tough their generation was and how weak this one is (with Len failing to grasp the concept of mental illness). I haven't read what's been posted since; I will now.

It's a very simple principle, not all people diagnosed with mental illnesses are mentally ill. And it is, in my opinion, fucking criminal to slap labels like that on people and hinder them for the rest of their lives over the fact that certain companies benefit from flogging drugs. Is that failing to grasp the concept of mental illness?

And as far as that circlejerking about how tough their generation was have a scroll back and a read and show me where you saw that in this thread? You didn't cuz it's not there cuz you imagined it.

[SoulMonster]

The fact that ADHD is a new diagnosis doesn't mean it is a new disorder. The fact that suspiciously many are diagnosed with ADHD doesn't mean none are suffering from it.

There is a dynamics that arises whenever a new disease is introduced, especially one that affects children. Parents are crazy about their kids and are often willing to embrace a diagnosis, and its medicine, if they believe it might help their loved ones. Doctors are too quick to prescribe medicine, often because parents insist. Drug companies are nothing but eager to sell their products and market both a disease/disorder AND the solution, creating an exaggerated prevalance. US society is sickingly obsessed with health and medicine. Real sufferers from ADHD are twice on the losing end, from having a disorder that is hard to live with, and from the social stigma of being nothing but "unruly", "a bit wild", and/or having "bad parents".

Edited March 5, 2015 by SoulMonster

[Apollo]

The fact that ADHD is a new diagnosis doesn't mean it is a new disorder. The fact that suspiciously many are diagnosed with ADHD doesn't mean none are suffering from it.

There is a dynamics that arises whenever a new disease is introduced, especially one that affects children. Parents are crazy about their kids and are often willing to embrace a diagnosis, and its medicine, if they believe it might help their loved ones. Doctors are too quick to prescribe medicine, often because parents insist. Drug companies are nothing but eager to sell their products and market both a disease/disorder AND the solution, creating an exaggerated prevalance. US society is sickingly obsessed with health and medicine. Real sufferers from ADHD are twice on the losing end, from having a disorder that is hard to live with, and from the social stigma of being nothing but "unruly", "a bit wild", and/or having "bad parents".

Soul, Alfie and GivenToFly thank you for your posts in this topic.

I apologized if I offended anybody with my comments. I work in the field. And here all the same cliches that are being thrown around in here all the time. This idea that good parenting or more exercise is all most of these kids need and that millions of kids are misdiagnosed and/or they are faking it to get pills to sell......we'll, it's like Alfie said. Those things are so overblown in terms of how often they really happen, and all the hyperbole just makes life more difficult from the kids who do genuinely suffer.

And Len! Love you man. But real depression isn't a feeling. It's an imbalance in the brain. You have to treat it medically or the person will never get better. What you are saying would be like telling a guy with cancer to not take medicine and to just trust his own instincts. Medicine and counseling - it is what they need to try and live a functioning life. To say that know themselves well enough and better than a psychiatrist..... I'm guessing you've never spent time with somebody who is truly depressed. These people often self medicate - cobain, robin Williams - and kill themselves. Robin Williams. Super wealthy. Famous. Loved by millions. Loving family. Killed himself. If a dude like him can't handle it, imagine a broke teenage kid who thinks he is a loser and that his life sucks. It's a terrible affliction.

Depression is like a lot if things. Food poisoning or migraines.

There is a difference between being depressed, having a stomach ache and your head hurting compared to suffering from depression and having food poisoning and having an actual migraine.

[MB.]

Those things are so overblown in terms of how often they really happen, and all the hyperbole just makes life more difficult from the kids who do genuinely suffer.

Yes exactly. Which can be very dangerous as well. To no be listened to, misunderstood, not be taken serious is extremely hard to live with. Kids feel ashamed and pushed into a corner. When you are told to go outside and play or just need a kick in the butt, while you are really trying, but you you just can't keep up or control yourself, it must be so hard. Teens can't really overlook the situation, they live in 'now' and they are still very impulsive, it's dangerous to not listen to them or really trying to help them.

Edited March 6, 2015 by MB.

[alfierose]

I've done some reading on the incidence and treatment of Adhd in the US and it seems the threshold for diagnosis and prescribing is generally set lower than here with less assessment and different agencies involved. Assuming there are no financial incentives for a diagnosis then it seems to be driven by either recognising people at the milder end of the spectrum (who would likely not get very far in the UK) or as a reaction to parents and students who feel they are somehow not meeting curriculum expectations and this is being looked to as a solution.

I'm not sure how I feel about the US situation, there certainly seems less stigma there which is a good thing, more discussion going on. Also I wouldn't like to say that people who are on the milder end of the spectrum are less deserving of recognition or help. I can see some of my son's difficulties in myself but in a less severe, more manageable way. I've managed to do okay in life but I know I could have done better, if there was a drug I could have taken to have made education and life more easier to navigate with hindsight I might have taken it too.

There's probably more to the US system than this but this is what I've taken from some of the reading I've done so far.

[Apollo]

Those things are so overblown in terms of how often they really happen, and all the hyperbole just makes life more difficult from the kids who do genuinely suffer.

Yes exactly. Which can be very dangerous as well. To no be listened to, misunderstood, not be taken serious is extremely hard to live with. Kids feel ashamed and pushed into a corner. When you are told to go outside and play or just need a kick in the butt, while you are really trying, but you you just can't keep up or control yourself, it must be so hard. Teens can't really overlook the situation, they live in 'now' and they are still very impulsive, it's dangerous to not listen to them or really trying to help them.

I see that pretty much every single day at my work. Even from teachers and school administration.

And kids here their parents say that and them go to school and harass kids that are already going through so much. It's a viscous cycle. Sad.

[Len Cnut]

Ive been giving it the biggun about raising kids the hard way, looking after my little niece right now, just sent her across the road to get some sweets and im fuckin terrified about her crossing the road on her own...and shes fuckin' 9, goes to show how full of shit i am!

[spunko12345]

Edit

Lol. a black kid in my class got caught shoplifting. ALL blacks must be thieves.

That's a bit much isn't it?

[Apollo]

Edit

Lol. a black kid in my class got caught shoplifting. ALL blacks must be thieves.

That's a bit much isn't it?

That's the point. It's ridiculous.

[spunko12345]

Edit

Lol. a black kid in my class got caught shoplifting. ALL blacks must be thieves.

That's a bit much isn't it?

That's the point. It's ridiculous.

I'd say no more than 90%

[Apollo]

Edit

Lol. a black kid in my class got caught shoplifting. ALL blacks must be thieves.

That's a bit much isn't it?

That's the point. It's ridiculous.

I'd say no more than 90%

According to Val22 it would be closer to 95%. Those damn monkeys all need to be slapped.

[SoulMonster]

Just saw this:

The title is, "Raising kids 2015". The rest is probably obvious.

[Apollo]

The CDC also reports 11 percent of Americans age 12 and older are taking antidepressant medication. And a stunning 23 percent of women ages 40-59 take antidepressants.

I wonder why Ritalen use outrages people (who don't have kids with ADHD) so much, but people don't seem that outraged about all the antidepressant and anxiety usage? I coach youth sports, so I'm around kids all the time. And the number of parents or older brothers/sisters that have "anxiety issues" is about 10-to-1 over the kids that are on Ritalin.

[GivenToFly]

Can't even blame them. The thought of taking a pill that changes your personality sounds super appealing to me.

[AxlisOld]

I had anxiety all through high school, I weighed about 130 lbs at 5'11". I just started drinking a lot after high school and stopped thinking about it. I don't have anxiety anymore drinking and I drinking haven't seen any long term affects.

[Facekicker]

The CDC also reports 11 percent of Americans age 12 and older are taking antidepressant medication. And a stunning 23 percent of women ages 40-59 take antidepressants.

I wonder why Ritalen use outrages people (who don't have kids with ADHD) so much, but people don't seem that outraged about all the antidepressant and anxiety usage? I coach youth sports, so I'm around kids all the time. And the number of parents or older brothers/sisters that have "anxiety issues" is about 10-to-1 over the kids that are on Ritalin.

I think the anti-depressent issue is just as fucked up. America must be the most medicated country on the planet. Apparently the water supply is even tainted now because of the amount of people pissing out remnants of meds. There was an article in time about some huge lake in the states where the fish have started changing sex because of the water being tainted by anti-depressents.

Land of the free more like The Worlds Largest Open Air Asylum.

[GivenToFly]

And what if it is ? Why is that a problem in itself? What's so great about humanity that its natural state has to be better than a chemically enhanced state?

[Facekicker]

Good christ...