Graeme Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Broue Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 He obviously doesn't care. Check out his performances, they say more than words ever could. The biggest body of evidence is in the fact that Pitman dresses like a gayer version of a village people member, shaking his salt cellar and tambourine during You Could Be Mine and Gashba is anywhere near lead duty.Well take a look of GNR's early image, i think Pitman is a straight dude compared to them... he just looks like your average pretentious "warholesque" artist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) I think CD and the disintegration of the 2002 line-up killed him off a bit.Still got the fire screamed his ass off in Vegas when he performed Prostitute in 2014. That's all I need to see to know there are still glimpses, so when he gives a fuck he can still nail it.As an 'artist' though? Creatively he basically went in to his shell. It is almost like, he had too much (artistically) riding on cd so the non-event of that album made him go, ''sod this, I will just travel an easier path in future''.But some of the CD songs are staples now. Better, Chinese, SOD, and he has played all of them live.He said he was pleased with CD's reception in That Metal Show interview, and they also played deep cuts like Catcher and There Was A Time.He toured it for years, I don't see what more he could have done to represent it live better.And then he talked about CD ll being done and a remix Chinese and not in a hurry to record new songs. When you consider the fact he said he viewed Chinese as a double, it makes sense that he'll want to first get the whole Chinese project released (CD ll) and then probably try to move forward with an Ashba/Fortus centric album.Are you forgetting the original plan of Chinese and a quick release second and third album?Time changes. Sometimes time expands. Sometimes time contracts. -Ancient philosophical decree Edited April 7, 2015 by Mr. Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallFlagg Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 A Dead Horse with a carrot dangling infront of it he thinks he'll reach just around the next corner of the track (next tour and the next one and the next one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Broue Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I was just thinking about this today, from what I can see the general consensus on this forum is that of agreeing that GNR's wasted potential has been pretty substanital. Do you think Axl thinks that GNR is thriving nowadays? Or do you think Axl secretely agrees that GNR has wasted a lot of potential? Or maybe he thinks they have wasted potential but it is everyone else's fault? I for one don't really get why Axl hasn't utlized the guys he has hired to their full potential. Or even if he did - why hasn't he realeased any more of that material? I honestly don't understand why more hasn't happened with GNR in the past 20 yearsBecause of the nameIt is clear now that was too much to handle for Axl Truth is the truth hurts don't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 "There's been some concern. That if we play five or six new songs, then there can't that many more on the album. Au contraire, mon frére. We're just playing the songs we're not considering putting out as singles or anything. So, you'll get 18 songs, and about 10 extra tracks. And when that, when the record company feels that has run its course, then you'll get it all over again. By that time, I should be done with the third album. So we'll see if all goes well boys and girls." (Axl, Docklands, 08/26/02)It is like a different guy.He also said that he would never become an artist that just played the same songs, year after year. And that sharing new material with fans was something he was always interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 And that sharing new material with fans was something he was always interested in.When did he say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) I was just thinking about this today, from what I can see the general consensus on this forum is that of agreeing that GNR's wasted potential has been pretty substanital. Do you think Axl thinks that GNR is thriving nowadays? Or do you think Axl secretely agrees that GNR has wasted a lot of potential? Or maybe he thinks they have wasted potential but it is everyone else's fault? I for one don't really get why Axl hasn't utlized the guys he has hired to their full potential. Or even if he did - why hasn't he realeased any more of that material? I honestly don't understand why more hasn't happened with GNR in the past 20 yearsBecause of the nameIt is clear now that was too much to handle for Axl Truth is the truth hurts don't you agree?Over complicating it.At the end of the day, it's just a name of a rock band. Not a life or death situation. Plenty of bands have had the weight of a name to try and carry on. AC/DC, Journey, Queen, Van Halen, Black Sabbath, etc. How did they overcome the "shock" of huge changes in their bands? They kept releasing music. And fans either got on board or they jumped ship. Pressure is for new bands, struggling bands or poor people. Pressure is knowing your most recent album decides your entire fate - whether you go broke, lose your house, lose your label and have to get a job giving guitar lessons. CD could have sold 17 copies and Axl would still be The Axl Rose with a hundred million dollars in the bank.The pressure or "too much" is all about Axl - not about the name. If Axl retired the name in 1996, do you really think he'd be casually releasing new albums every 3-4 years? Of course not. He would still be doing all the same exact things he is doing now. Not releasing music, tinkering with his songs to death, Being called GnR didn't make Axl into a recluse, being raised by The Beta, and afraid to share his music with his fans.Instead of letting The Beta, Fernando and Del speak for GnR, Axl needs to let his music do all the talking. But one album every 20 years isn't good enough to do that. Edited April 7, 2015 by Apollo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 And that sharing new material with fans was something he was always interested in.When did he say this?It was about 6:30 pm I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 And that sharing new material with fans was something he was always interested in.When did he say this?It was about 6:30 pm I believe.No, seriously, I can't remember him ever saying anything like that so I am curious to know if there's something I've missed or forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Rose Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Well, you wanted him on time.He wasn't on time in 2002 and he was closer then to his 2011-2014 performances than to his 2006-10 performances. He showed up to Rio '11 a different person, nothing to do with trading A-Game for punctuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5HdaIHLBXg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Rose Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I think CD and the disintegration of the 2002 line-up killed him off a bit.You're a smart poster yet that makes no sense whatsoever. With his new lineup in 2002 he looked like a deer in headlights; said he just about scraped enough of his mind together to perform; looked ridiculous; shit the bed at MTV; sang clean falsetto and wasn't moving/performing like old Axl.In 2006-10 even with Bucket, Finck and then Brain leaving he upped his game to the point that at times he was literally performing as closely as he possibly could both vocally and in terms of his movements and stage presence to the way he did in the 90s. Also, even during what he called the worst year of his life, he was already suggesting we might get the next record as early as November 2009. The big change in his whole demeanor came somewhere between the end of the 2010 tour and Rio '11. He went from performing in a t-shirt and bandana, running around the stage and singing like it was 1992 to spending '11-'14 hiding behind all his gaudy clothes, glasses and hats, working the stage with about 75% less energy and singing clean falsetto again for the first time since 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5HdaIHLBXgIt was an immature and arrogant comment by someone that still wielded the power of old Guns, but the unity was already lost. Axl will never bury Appetite. He will continue to make money from performing Appetite material for at least a few years though imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5HdaIHLBXg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Rose Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I think CD and the disintegration of the 2002 line-up killed him off a bit.Still got the fire screamed his ass off in Vegas when he performed Prostitute in 2014. That's all I need to see to know there are still glimpses, so when he gives a fuck he can still nail it.As an 'artist' though? Creatively he basically went in to his shell. It is almost like, he had too much (artistically) riding on cd so the non-event of that album made him go, ''sod this, I will just travel an easier path in future''.Obviously there is a shitload of evidence over the years to suggest that he's so insecure that the non-event of CD would have crushed him. But in the chats he came off as sounding completely reasonable about the whole thing e.g. all things considered it sold pretty well; I only wanted to make a good record, not the greatest ever; some of the reviews were a bloodbath but some were nice. I mean, he sounded completely rational and down to Earth about the whole thing. And a huge part of the non-event was him not doing a single thing to promote it to protest the record company/Azoff not doing anything when he could have just booked himself on a worldwide media blitz.Actually, i've never thought of it like that but he protested the record company/Azoff fucking over something he spent 10 years on by doing nothing himself. Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to make a statement that the NewGuns were staying around/no reunion by just doing all the promotion himself; letting the band talk to mag and radio show; paying for some videos himself, even just cheap performance videos; playing award shows etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5HdaIHLBXgIt was an immature and arrogant comment by someone that still wielded the power of old Guns, but the unity was already lost. Axl will never bury Appetite. He will continue to make money from performing Appetite material for at least a few years though imo.I find it an admirable philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Rose Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I think CD and the disintegration of the 2002 line-up killed him off a bit.Still got the fire screamed his ass off in Vegas when he performed Prostitute in 2014. That's all I need to see to know there are still glimpses, so when he gives a fuck he can still nail it.As an 'artist' though? Creatively he basically went in to his shell. It is almost like, he had too much (artistically) riding on cd so the non-event of that album made him go, ''sod this, I will just travel an easier path in future''.But some of the CD songs are staples now. Better, Chinese, SOD, and he has played all of them live.They also played deep cuts like Catcher and There Was A Time.He toured it for years, I don't see what more he could have done to represent it live better.And what percentage of the audience, after over a decade of playing Madagascar, SoD, Chinese, knows or sings along or gets into any of the 'new 'songs? This I Love gets a good response from the 95% casual/nostalgia audience because of the vocal acrobatics and accessible melody. But it would be nice to think that SIXTEEN YEARS after recording the vocals for Twat and Catcher that the whole audience at even the arena shows would be treating those songs like must-hear classics the same way that e.g. Maiden's Wickerman (2000) or Dance of Death (2003) are today treated with the same reverence as classic from the 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I think CD and the disintegration of the 2002 line-up killed him off a bit.You're a smart poster yet that makes no sense whatsoever. With his new lineup in 2002 he looked like a deer in headlights; said he just about scraped enough of his mind together to perform; looked ridiculous; shit the bed at MTV; sang clean falsetto and wasn't moving/performing like old Axl.In 2006-10 even with Bucket, Finck and then Brain leaving he upped his game to the point that at times he was literally performing as closely as he possibly could both vocally and in terms of his movements and stage presence to the way he did in the 90s. Also, even during what he called the worst year of his life, he was already suggesting we might get the next record as early as November 2009. The big change in his whole demeanor came somewhere between the end of the 2010 tour and Rio '11. He went from performing in a t-shirt and bandana, running around the stage and singing like it was 1992 to spending '11-'14 hiding behind all his gaudy clothes, glasses and hats, working the stage with about 75% less energy and singing clean falsetto again for the first time since 2002.Are you saying he should have waited for his voice to improve, but for his lead guitarist to leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Rose Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 "There's been some concern. That if we play five or six new songs, then there can't that many more on the album. Au contraire, mon frére. We're just playing the songs we're not considering putting out as singles or anything. So, you'll get 18 songs, and about 10 extra tracks. And when that, when the record company feels that has run its course, then you'll get it all over again. By that time, I should be done with the third album. So we'll see if all goes well boys and girls." (Axl, Docklands, 08/26/02)It is like a different guy.It really is Same with the '91 setlist rant about how coming out and playing Appetite every night would be like jerking off and how people going to multiple shows deserve to hear a different show each time.I also believe that when he promised Bucket that only the initial 2001-2002 shows would rely heavily on the classic stuff and that post album-release the set would lean towards new stuff that he absolutely meant it at the time. He went from that to insulting people like us as 'the same idiots' asking about a new album release, different setlist etc. It's bizarre. I mean, what year was it that he said it was the same idiots who've been around forever asking about a new album, don't know don't care etc? 2011? So TWELVE fucking years after he recorded Maddy, SoD, Catcher and other songs that might have been slated for record 2, 3....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Rose Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5HdaIHLBXgGood God. I'd never seen that clip. And nearly a quarter of a century later we get Appetite for Democracy: Jungle, Brownstone, Easy....YCBM...RQ....SC....NT...PC. Every show for 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Rose Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5HdaIHLBXgIt was an immature and arrogant comment by someone that still wielded the power of old Guns, but the unity was already lost. Axl will never bury Appetite. He will continue to make money from performing Appetite material for at least a few years though imo.Why immature and arrogant? There are many good reasons why an artist might want to build and build on top of the work he did when he was young. Arguably the two most important acts of the last century, Dylan and The Beatles, went out of their way to disown their earliest work. U2 cut down the Joshua Tree with Achtung Baby. It took Johnny Bon Jovi nearly 30 years to swallow his pride enough to play more than one song off his first two records and that lasted for 2 shows a few years ago. In his own case, Axl explained at length in the 90s why performing those early songs could become a chore: they're violent, angry, naive songs about partying, getting wasted and he'd already stopped relating to most of them on any level in his 30s. Even recently he said that it was a particularly big deal in 2006, in his mid 40s, to figure out how he was going to perform/sing/move around on stage to Jungle because it's not like he relates to it in any way shape or form or dances around the house to it.On the other hand, there are artists like Springsteen who write their first records specifically with the thought of 'am I going to be able to sings Lost In The Flood when i'm older?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Rose Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) I think CD and the disintegration of the 2002 line-up killed him off a bit.You're a smart poster yet that makes no sense whatsoever. With his new lineup in 2002 he looked like a deer in headlights; said he just about scraped enough of his mind together to perform; looked ridiculous; shit the bed at MTV; sang clean falsetto and wasn't moving/performing like old Axl.In 2006-10 even with Bucket, Finck and then Brain leaving he upped his game to the point that at times he was literally performing as closely as he possibly could both vocally and in terms of his movements and stage presence to the way he did in the 90s. Also, even during what he called the worst year of his life, he was already suggesting we might get the next record as early as November 2009. The big change in his whole demeanor came somewhere between the end of the 2010 tour and Rio '11. He went from performing in a t-shirt and bandana, running around the stage and singing like it was 1992 to spending '11-'14 hiding behind all his gaudy clothes, glasses and hats, working the stage with about 75% less energy and singing clean falsetto again for the first time since 2002.Are you saying he should have waited for his voice to improve, but for his lead guitarist to leave?No.For the sake of argument let's say by 'killing him off' we mean that he doesn't prepare for tours, sings weak, clean falsetto, phones in shows, hides behind his glasses and chastises fans for wanting new material and says he doesn't even care about new material. This practice started in 2011. Let's also say that the disintegration of the 2002 lineup was not complete until Robin and Brain said they wouldn't be back in 2007-08. If your theory of the disintegration being the main thing that killed him off is correct then those dates should coincide. They don't because he arguably performed and sang with even more intensity in 2010 than he did in 2007. Again, whatever killed him off occurred after the 2010 tour and before Rio '11. Edited April 7, 2015 by Jordan Rose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbo Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I refuse to believe he can possibly be satisfied with the way things turned out. And there's no way I believe he sees himself as responsible. Look at the all interviews he's done when asked about the fuck ups. All he does is wag the finger. Where has he ever taken the fall, even partially, for anything that's gone wrong since the og band went to shit? Pointing responsibility at every possible person under the sun from Irving Azoff to Roy Thomas Baker. Shit even mummy herself. He was tripped. He was dicked. He was misled. He was wronged, but never wrong. Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 It's business as usual for Axl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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