Belgium - euthanasia for depression

[Chris1989]

http://europe.newsweek.com/healthy-24-year-old-granted-right-die-belgium-329504

I had no ideas their laws allowed this, thoughts?

[magisme]

Heartbreaking.

[Johnny Drama]

Too far. Fucking idiocy.

[username]

I'm against euthanasia, aside from some very rare cases when man has kept man alive too long to begin with. This is ridiculous.

Quitter.

[magisme]

I find it very hard to pass judgment on someone whose pain is great enough that they are willing to end their life. Unless someone's been there - and if they're alive they pretty much by definition haven't been - I don't see how they have a right to say much.

[Słash]

It is suicide in this case, there are some cases where a person has been in a vegetable state for 40 years, then I can understand, Personally I don't know what kind of a depression the girl would be going through but man things like these can be sorted out and counselling or other things can help

[username]

I find it very hard to pass judgment on someone whose pain is great enough that they are willing to end their life. Unless someone's been there - and if they're alive they pretty much by definition haven't been - I don't see how they have a right to say much.

That may be true, but I consider depression something that needs to be treated, not given in to. I hate the fact that the threshold for ending one's own life is becoming lower and lower.

[netcat]

well i look at it this way: 40-60% of all people committing suicide are previously diagnosed with clinical depression. if they're determined to kill themselves anyway, why not give them a chance to do it with minimal fear and pain?

and it's not that they are euthanized on first demand. speaking of the girl from the article, they tried to cure her depression for 3-4 years.. maybe that's not long enough, but... i don't know

[Rovim]

well i look at it this way: 40-60% of all people committing suicide are previously diagnosed with clinical depression. if they're determined to kill themselves anyway, why not give them a chance to do it with minimal fear and pain?

and it's not that they are euthanized on first demand. speaking of the girl from the article, they tried to cure her depression for 3-4 years.. maybe that's not long enough, but... i don't know

Yeah... I don't know. Is there such a thing "long enough" in this case? sounds like a terrible idea to me. I just don't feel it's a good solution for that particular problem.

A better way of dealing with it imo is trying to help the person not want to kill themselves until the moment they do it. Hopefully they don't cause somebody tried their best to help and it worked.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Rovim

[LyndaRose]

I ask myself why a person can not choose to die...

[Rovim]

I ask myself why a person can not choose to die...

You can choose to die, but why would it be ok for anyone to help you get there if your reason for doing it is depression? there are proven ways of treatment for it. At least should offer that before going along with it and help someone totally give up on life.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Rovim

[Gracii Guns]

This is why people who campaign against euthanasia are against it. Legalising it has become the slippery slope they said it would be. In Belgium it's also legal to euthanise children.

Severe Depression is really, really horrible, but there is effective treatment. Not all of it suits everybody, but huge steps have been made, and euthanasia is not progress.

I disagree with the term "healthy" being applied to that article, separating psychological health from physical health.

Additionally, this must be heartbreaking for her family. When I lost my mum at the age of 42 I was like "bah, at least she isn't ill anymore" but these days I just wish she had a longer life than she did, because even when it's bad, it's still better than dying too young.

[Len Cnut]

Surely depression is a mental illness so you aint in your right mind to make the desicion? Then again is a person riddled with cancer and excruciating pain in their right mind?

[magisme]

I find it very hard to pass judgment on someone whose pain is great enough that they are willing to end their life. Unless someone's been there - and if they're alive they pretty much by definition haven't been - I don't see how they have a right to say much.

That may be true, but I consider depression something that needs to be treated, not given in to. I hate the fact that the threshold for ending one's own life is becoming lower and lower.

I'm thinking of the girl in the article in particular. It says she's been treated and in institutions her entire life and absolutely nothing has worked; she just keeps wanting to die. When asked if she wouldn't prefer a bearable life, she said she would, she's tried, but it's not an option for her. What do you say to someone who feels like that, someone who has tried for years?

I'm not saying I'm in favor of anyone taking their own life, of course, and I'd hope anyone even thinking about it would seek immediate help.

[grouse]

This is why people who campaign against euthanasia are against it. Legalising it has become the slippery slope they said it would be. In Belgium it's also legal to euthanise children. .

Yes because letting kids who are terminally ill suffer is perfectly okay and the way it should be done.

[Gracii Guns]

This is why people who campaign against euthanasia are against it. Legalising it has become the slippery slope they said it would be. In Belgium it's also legal to euthanise children. .

Yes because letting kids who are terminally ill suffer is perfectly okay and the way it should be done.

That's not my concern when palliative care and the hospice movement are such high quality. It's the question of choice. How much wisdom does a child have to embrace death as a informed choice? Most adults don't deal well with death of a loved one and few like the idea of dying themselves. Additionally, if a child feels like a burden on their family, this might factor into the decision hugely. Children don't have the perspective mature adults do.

[bran]

Im fine with it if you want to die because the pain inside is too much to take. Its your life and no one elses

[grouse]

This is why people who campaign against euthanasia are against it. Legalising it has become the slippery slope they said it would be. In Belgium it's also legal to euthanise children. .

Yes because letting kids who are terminally ill suffer is perfectly okay and the way it should be done.

That's not my concern when palliative care and the hospice movement are such high quality. It's the question of choice. How much wisdom does a child have to embrace death as a informed choice? Most adults don't deal well with death of a loved one and few like the idea of dying themselves. Additionally, if a child feels like a burden on their family, this might factor into the decision hugely. Children don't have the perspective mature adults do.

Yeah let's just give him/her another dose of morphine just to lower his/her pain ever so slightly until he/she dies by chocking on his/her own mucus. Congratulations kid you just made your parents proud by dying like a trooper! When instead you could've dosed off in your own home surrounded by loved ones.

[Gracii Guns]

This is why people who campaign against euthanasia are against it. Legalising it has become the slippery slope they said it would be. In Belgium it's also legal to euthanise children. .

Yes because letting kids who are terminally ill suffer is perfectly okay and the way it should be done.

That's not my concern when palliative care and the hospice movement are such high quality. It's the question of choice. How much wisdom does a child have to embrace death as a informed choice? Most adults don't deal well with death of a loved one and few like the idea of dying themselves. Additionally, if a child feels like a burden on their family, this might factor into the decision hugely. Children don't have the perspective mature adults do.

Yeah let's just give him/her another dose of morphine just to lower his/her pain ever so slightly until he/she dies by chocking on his/her own mucus. Congratulations kid you just made your parents proud by dying like a trooper! When instead you could've dosed off in your own home surrounded by loved ones.

I'd really like to hear from the perspective of a parent who made the decision regarding the time to end their child's life.

Grouse, you seem quite passionate about this. Can you give your argument without relying on sarcasm? I'd really like to know what your response is to my statement that children don't have the mature perspective of an adult to choose death before being cared for by the people who love them the most.

Evidently we disagree, but this is a very important topic and I'm willing to listen to someone who can discuss it intelligently.

[Lio]

This is why people who campaign against euthanasia are against it. Legalising it has become the slippery slope they said it would be. In Belgium it's also legal to euthanise children. .

Yes because letting kids who are terminally ill suffer is perfectly okay and the way it should be done.

That's not my concern when palliative care and the hospice movement are such high quality. It's the question of choice. How much wisdom does a child have to embrace death as a informed choice? Most adults don't deal well with death of a loved one and few like the idea of dying themselves. Additionally, if a child feels like a burden on their family, this might factor into the decision hugely. Children don't have the perspective mature adults do.

Yeah let's just give him/her another dose of morphine just to lower his/her pain ever so slightly until he/she dies by chocking on his/her own mucus. Congratulations kid you just made your parents proud by dying like a trooper! When instead you could've dosed off in your own home surrounded by loved ones.

I'd really like to hear from the perspective of a parent who made the decision regarding the time to end their child's life.

Grouse, you seem quite passionate about this. Can you give your argument without relying on sarcasm? I'd really like to know what your response is to my statement that children don't have the mature perspective of an adult to choose death before being cared for by the people who love them the most.

Evidently we disagree, but this is a very important topic and I'm willing to listen to someone who can discuss it intelligently.

This is obviously a very difficult subject and there is no right solution, no cut-and-dried answer. I believe parents will struggle with it for the rest of their lives, but if your child is terminally ill, it’s been in and out of hospitals, suffered more than any person should ever suffer, and you hear that no matter how brave it is, no matter how much it fights, it is a hopeless fight, your child will never get better, and it wants nothing else but sleep, no more pain, begs you to make it better and end the suffering, to me, it would seem euthanasia is the most human decision to make.

To me, letting go, be it a child or another loved one, is the ultimate act of love, as you think of nothing else but the other, not of yourself. You give up the time you would love to spend with your loved one, to save them pain and suffering. At least that’s the way I see it.

[netcat]

Surely depression is a mental illness so you aint in your right mind to make the desicion? Then again is a person riddled with cancer and excruciating pain in their right mind?

it's not a mental illness, it's more like a disorder, as far as i understand it.

in most countries people with depression are not declared mentally disabled. In Soviets those who tried to commit suicide were forced into mental hospitals, but i don't remember hearing compulsory treatment actually cured anyone..

although in some countries attempt to suicide is still a criminal offence, wich is... odd. to put it mildly

[Bumblefeet]

I personally like how liberal my country is with euthanasia, we had an international uproar last year when Belgium passed the Children’s euthanasia bill giving terminally ill children the choice to end their life and not endure terrible pain. These type of laws like I said cause more of an uproar abroad than they do in our country; usually they apply to a very small number of people who are in a situation they see no other way out and so these laws accommodate a humane solution. To deny these people this solution based on religious, political, ... views is for me the equivalent of torture. Give them their way out.

[Len Cnut]

Surely depression is a mental illness so you aint in your right mind to make the desicion? Then again is a person riddled with cancer and excruciating pain in their right mind?

it's not a mental illness, it's more like a disorder, as far as i understand it.

in most countries people with depression are not declared mentally disabled. In Soviets those who tried to commit suicide were forced into mental hospitals, but i don't remember hearing compulsory treatment actually cured anyone..

although in some countries attempt to suicide is still a criminal offence, wich is... odd. to put it mildly

Is it punishable by death?

[magisme]

This is why people who campaign against euthanasia are against it. Legalising it has become the slippery slope they said it would be. In Belgium it's also legal to euthanise children. .

Yes because letting kids who are terminally ill suffer is perfectly okay and the way it should be done.

That's not my concern when palliative care and the hospice movement are such high quality. It's the question of choice. How much wisdom does a child have to embrace death as a informed choice? Most adults don't deal well with death of a loved one and few like the idea of dying themselves. Additionally, if a child feels like a burden on their family, this might factor into the decision hugely. Children don't have the perspective mature adults do.

Yeah let's just give him/her another dose of morphine just to lower his/her pain ever so slightly until he/she dies by chocking on his/her own mucus. Congratulations kid you just made your parents proud by dying like a trooper! When instead you could've dosed off in your own home surrounded by loved ones.

I'd really like to hear from the perspective of a parent who made the decision regarding the time to end their child's life.

Grouse, you seem quite passionate about this. Can you give your argument without relying on sarcasm? I'd really like to know what your response is to my statement that children don't have the mature perspective of an adult to choose death before being cared for by the people who love them the most.

Evidently we disagree, but this is a very important topic and I'm willing to listen to someone who can discuss it intelligently.

This is obviously a very difficult subject and there is no right solution, no cut-and-dried answer. I believe parents will struggle with it for the rest of their lives, but if your child is terminally ill, it’s been in and out of hospitals, suffered more than any person should ever suffer, and you hear that no matter how brave it is, no matter how much it fights, it is a hopeless fight, your child will never get better, and it wants nothing else but sleep, no more pain, begs you to make it better and end the suffering, to me, it would seem euthanasia is the most human decision to make.

To me, letting go, be it a child or another loved one, is the ultimate act of love, as you think of nothing else but the other, not of yourself. You give up the time you would love to spend with your loved one, to save them pain and suffering. At least that’s the way I see it.

Please don't make me cry so early in the day.

[Len Cnut]

I'm sorry but I ain't fuckin' havin' that, i ain't killing no kids. Call me selfish, call me what you like but i don't need that fuckin' shit on my conscience, you might as well chuck me in the fuckin' hole after the kid after that, I'd be finished as a human being. I didn't fuckin' invent pain, i didn't create that shit, you can't fuckin' lay that shit on me and guilt trip me into murder, fuck that. I can't take a fuckin' childs life, i physically can't do it, i can't OK that, call me every name under the fuckin' sun if you like, coward, selfish, self motivated, whatever, i ain't being responsible for that, in the same way that a fuckin' paraplegic can't walk i can't kill children, i can't have someone in front of me going 'OK, we're turning the machine off, all we need is your OK', i can't give that fuckin' OK.

I'm not judging other parents and what they've done (why did i say parents? Other people generally) but i can't do that shit, to me, personally, it is a moral crime, maybe it's some kind of leave over from having been raised religious or something but...nah, fuck that, I'd rather kill myself than make that desicion, thats how strongly i feel about it, i couldn't even tell a girl to get a fuckin' abortion, let alone kill an actual fuckin' living human being, a child or, just as bad, like my old man or something? I couldn't even entertain the notion, no no no, no fuckin' way.