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Jim Jefferies wins the gun control debate.


Georgy Zhukov

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I mean, I would love to go out and shoot guns, but in the long debate, I think we are better off without them. Unless as he said, we go back to muskets. The only reason the Second Amendment was in case the government is too tyrannical. But they have drones and nukes. We are no Taliban.

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Except no one gives a shit what some fat convict with a rapidly spreading widows peak thinks, fuck that America, never give up your fuckin' guns because why the fuck should you? End of the fuckin' day, loonies pull triggers pointing at innocents, thats the fuckin' long and short of it, as long as you ain't a fuckin' looney then there ain't no fuckin' problem, why the fuck should America be dictated to or feel pressured by a bunch of self righteous cunts that are oceans away from the fuckin' reality of whats going on whoose arguement is basically based around 'well i know what Americas like, I've seen it on the telly, ain't I?'. (yes i see the irony :lol:).

Seriously, fuck em, why should Americans get rid of their guns? Fuck that bullshit. Oh what, it can't be fuckin' freedom until you basically treat your population like fuckin' retards? No you may not own a gun because of the off chance you might be a fuckin' psychopath or given to behaving like a psychopath on occassion, way i see it America appears to be the only country truly committed to this fuckin' idea of freedom and liberty and all that bullshit because, look, everybody wants peace and love and lets all kiss each other on the fuckin' cheek and draw hearts on each other and all that fuckin' bullshit, it's just other countries think the way to get to that shit is to restrict their population into submission and America has the stones to attempt to try and find a way to do that shit whilst at the same time remaining committed to the principles upon which that fuckin' country was founded, to me thats fuckin' admirable. It won't be an easy path and shit will probably fuck up along the path umpteen times...but it's the right thing to do because thats what freedom and liberty requires and the pursuit of a world or a society where that shit doesn't have to be lessened or degraded for us to be able to reasonably claim to be committed to the idea of a peaceful existence.

I mean look, we all knew that from the get-go didn't we, that the easy way to a peaceful loving caring sharing society is to just legislate peoples freedoms and liberties out of existence, thats not some brilliant idea that Europe had or something, thats fuckin' obvious, weren't it? 'Hmm, how can we stop people killing each other? I know, we'll make it illegal to use your hands!', if you wanna go there, there's a solution to the fuckin' murder rate problem right there :lol:

Fuck that bullshit, we can all have a free just better society if you take away everyones rights, the cunts won't have a fuckin' choice one way or the other...but the right way to do shit is to have folks have their freedoms and the fuckin' better society be a construct of the will of the people, the majority, the populus, the motherfuckers that make up America.

Centuries of American society is understood and rightly represented by some fat pisshead Aussie comedian, yeah right. You can't legislate people into being good people, it comes from inside themselves or not at all.

Everyone treats America like the fuckin' well meaning but fundamentally retarded kid, like 'ahaha, we know whats best for you America, allow us to pontificate (yes, i see the irony again :lol:) and talk down to you because you're a bunch of thickos cuz we all know whats best for you in the long run', yeah, cuz they got to being a super-power by taking advice from people who put bits of string with corks dangling off the ends through their fuckin' hats :lol:

Edited by Len B'stard
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Except no one gives a shit what some fat convict with a rapidly spreading widows peak thinks, fuck that America, never give up your fuckin' guns because why the fuck should you? End of the fuckin' day, loonies pull triggers pointing at innocents, thats the fuckin' long and short of it, as long as you ain't a fuckin' looney then there ain't no fuckin' problem, why the fuck should America be dictated to or feel pressured by a bunch of self righteous cunts that are oceans away from the fuckin' reality of whats going on whoose arguement is basically based around 'well i know what Americas like, I've seen it on the telly, ain't I?'. (yes i see the irony :lol:).

Seriously, fuck em, why should Americans get rid of their guns? Fuck that bullshit. Oh what, it can't be fuckin' freedom until you basically treat your population like fuckin' retards? No you may not own a gun because of the off chance you might be a fuckin' psychopath or given to behaving like a psychopath on occassion, way i see it America appears to be the only country truly committed to this fuckin' idea of freedom and liberty and all that bullshit because, look, everybody wants peace and love and lets all kiss each other on the fuckin' cheek and draw hearts on each other and all that fuckin' bullshit, it's just other countries think the way to get to that shit is to restrict their population into submission and America has the stones to attempt to try and find a way to do that shit whilst at the same time remaining committed to the principles upon which that fuckin' country was founded, to me thats fuckin' admirable. It won't be an easy path and shit will probably fuck up along the path umpteen times...but it's the right thing to do because thats what freedom and liberty requires and the pursuit of a world or a society where that shit doesn't have to be lessened or degraded for us to be able to reasonably claim to be committed to the idea of a peaceful existence.

I mean look, we all knew that from the get-go didn't we, that the easy way to a peaceful loving caring sharing society is to just legislate peoples freedoms and liberties out of existence, thats not some brilliant idea that Europe had or something, thats fuckin' obvious, weren't it? 'Hmm, how can we stop people killing each other? I know, we'll make it illegal to use your hands!', if you wanna go there, there's a solution to the fuckin' murder rate problem right there :lol:

Fuck that bullshit, we can all have a free just better society if you take away everyones rights, the cunts won't have a fuckin' choice one way or the other...but the right way to do shit is to have folks have their freedoms and the fuckin' better society be a construct of the will of the people, the majority, the populus, the motherfuckers that make up America.

Centuries of American society is understood and rightly represented by some fat pisshead Aussie comedian, yeah right. You can't legislate people into being good people, it comes from inside themselves or not at all.

Everyone treats America like the fuckin' well meaning but fundamentally retarded kid, like 'ahaha, we know whats best for you America, allow us to pontificate (yes, i see the irony again :lol:) and talk down to you because you're a bunch of thickos cuz we all know whats best for you in the long run', yeah, cuz they got to being a super-power by taking advice from people who put bits of string with corks dangling off the ends through their fuckin' hats :lol:

one of my favorite quotes i read so far

obama trusts iran with nukes, but not americans with guns :lol:

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It's not a debate. It's in the Constitution, the supreme law of the land, if that means anything anymore.

So was prohibition. As Jeffries points out, it's an amendment, susceptible to change.

Except no one gives a shit what some fat convict with a rapidly spreading widows peak thinks, fuck that America, never give up your fuckin' guns because why the fuck should you? End of the fuckin' day, loonies pull triggers pointing at innocents, thats the fuckin' long and short of it, as long as you ain't a fuckin' looney then there ain't no fuckin' problem, why the fuck should America be dictated to or feel pressured by a bunch of self righteous cunts that are oceans away from the fuckin' reality of whats going on whoose arguement is basically based around 'well i know what Americas like, I've seen it on the telly, ain't I?'. (yes i see the irony :lol:).

Seriously, fuck em, why should Americans get rid of their guns? Fuck that bullshit. Oh what, it can't be fuckin' freedom until you basically treat your population like fuckin' retards? No you may not own a gun because of the off chance you might be a fuckin' psychopath or given to behaving like a psychopath on occassion, way i see it America appears to be the only country truly committed to this fuckin' idea of freedom and liberty and all that bullshit because, look, everybody wants peace and love and lets all kiss each other on the fuckin' cheek and draw hearts on each other and all that fuckin' bullshit, it's just other countries think the way to get to that shit is to restrict their population into submission and America has the stones to attempt to try and find a way to do that shit whilst at the same time remaining committed to the principles upon which that fuckin' country was founded, to me thats fuckin' admirable. It won't be an easy path and shit will probably fuck up along the path umpteen times...but it's the right thing to do because thats what freedom and liberty requires and the pursuit of a world or a society where that shit doesn't have to be lessened or degraded for us to be able to reasonably claim to be committed to the idea of a peaceful existence.

I mean look, we all knew that from the get-go didn't we, that the easy way to a peaceful loving caring sharing society is to just legislate peoples freedoms and liberties out of existence, thats not some brilliant idea that Europe had or something, thats fuckin' obvious, weren't it? 'Hmm, how can we stop people killing each other? I know, we'll make it illegal to use your hands!', if you wanna go there, there's a solution to the fuckin' murder rate problem right there :lol:

Fuck that bullshit, we can all have a free just better society if you take away everyones rights, the cunts won't have a fuckin' choice one way or the other...but the right way to do shit is to have folks have their freedoms and the fuckin' better society be a construct of the will of the people, the majority, the populus, the motherfuckers that make up America.

Centuries of American society is understood and rightly represented by some fat pisshead Aussie comedian, yeah right. You can't legislate people into being good people, it comes from inside themselves or not at all.

Everyone treats America like the fuckin' well meaning but fundamentally retarded kid, like 'ahaha, we know whats best for you America, allow us to pontificate (yes, i see the irony again :lol:) and talk down to you because you're a bunch of thickos cuz we all know whats best for you in the long run', yeah, cuz they got to being a super-power by taking advice from people who put bits of string with corks dangling off the ends through their fuckin' hats :lol:

one of my favorite quotes i read so far

obama trusts iran with nukes, but not americans with guns :lol:

Well, that's a gross exaggeration of Obama's intentions. Fairly certain Obama is for the deal as he sees it the best way to keep nukes out of the hands of the Iranians. Saying that Obama wants a deal with Iran to give them nuclear bombs is akin to suggesting that judges give criminals prison time because they want them to be free.

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It's not a debate. It's in the Constitution, the supreme law of the land, if that means anything anymore.

So was prohibition. As Jeffries points out, it's an amendment, susceptible to change.

Yeah, and I assume you know what it takes to change an amendment. Not a chance in hell. Not to mention it's in the Bill of Rights, which means it has a history and a respect to it that prohibition did not.

And why go to Iran to show that Obama wants weapons in people's hands? The US is the largest international arms dealer by leaps and bounds.

Edited by magisme
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It's not a debate. It's in the Constitution, the supreme law of the land, if that means anything anymore.

So was prohibition. As Jeffries points out, it's an amendment, susceptible to change.

Yeah, and I assume you know what it takes to change an amendment. Not a chance in hell. Not to mention it's in the Bill of Rights, which means it has a history and a respect to it that prohibition did not.

And why go to Iran to show that Obama wants weapons in people's hands? The US is the largest international arms dealer by leaps and bounds.

There's also the issue of statutory interpretation. It was until the case of Distraction of Columbia v. Heller in 2008 that the Supreme Court finally decided that the second amendment included handgun ownership. And that was on a 5-4 partisan split. It could be interpreted another way should the makeup of the court change in the next five years.

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From my limited knowledge of the second amendment it was influenced by the Whigish English Bill of Rights which allowed protestants to possess arms in order to defend themselves against Catholic Jacobean tyranny - this was the age of the Glorious Revolution and the rival 'Pretender' lineage. Transplanted to an American experience, it is inherently connected with the American militia system. How does this relate to high school Kurt Cobain obsessives buying Uzis? Well, it doesn't which is precisely my point.

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I don't get the idea that the US' constitution is immovable (is that the word?). It was written by mere humans, right, in a society quite different from ours, right? So why this knee-jerk rejection of even the idea of updating it and revising it, if it, or parts of it, should happen to be outdated and not any longer be optimal? Do modern Americans think the authors of the constitution were infallible? Do they think so little of themselves?

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I don't get the idea that the US' constitution is immovable (is that the word?). It was written by mere humans, right, in a society quite different from ours, right? So why this knee-jerk rejection of even the idea of updating it and revising it, if it, or parts of it, should happen to be outdated and not any longer be optimal? Do modern Americans think the authors of the constitution were infallible? Do they think so little of themselves?

one_nation_under_God_002.jpg

:lol:

To paraphrase Bill Maher, it's either Jesus gifting the constitution to America or the Catholic church's settlement offer to the boy in the yellow shirt. :lol:

Edited by Dazey
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I don't get the idea that the US' constitution is immovable (is that the word?). It was written by mere humans, right, in a society quite different from ours, right? So why this knee-jerk rejection of even the idea of updating it and revising it, if it, or parts of it, should happen to be outdated and not any longer be optimal? Do modern Americans think the authors of the constitution were infallible? Do they think so little of themselves?

Because the principles of liberty are eternal.

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Sure, but that is only a good argument if the American constitution is some perfect rendition of these principles. If we set the US constitution = the optimal set of laws to obtain liberty, then yes, given the premise that liberty is what is desired then the constitution should be unchangeable and not subject to revision.

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Except no one gives a shit what some fat convict with a rapidly spreading widows peak thinks, fuck that America, never give up your fuckin' guns because why the fuck should you? End of the fuckin' day, loonies pull triggers pointing at innocents, thats the fuckin' long and short of it, as long as you ain't a fuckin' looney then there ain't no fuckin' problem, why the fuck should America be dictated to or feel pressured by a bunch of self righteous cunts that are oceans away from the fuckin' reality of whats going on whoose arguement is basically based around 'well i know what Americas like, I've seen it on the telly, ain't I?'. (yes i see the irony :lol:).

Seriously, fuck em, why should Americans get rid of their guns? Fuck that bullshit. Oh what, it can't be fuckin' freedom until you basically treat your population like fuckin' retards? No you may not own a gun because of the off chance you might be a fuckin' psychopath or given to behaving like a psychopath on occassion, way i see it America appears to be the only country truly committed to this fuckin' idea of freedom and liberty and all that bullshit because, look, everybody wants peace and love and lets all kiss each other on the fuckin' cheek and draw hearts on each other and all that fuckin' bullshit, it's just other countries think the way to get to that shit is to restrict their population into submission and America has the stones to attempt to try and find a way to do that shit whilst at the same time remaining committed to the principles upon which that fuckin' country was founded, to me thats fuckin' admirable. It won't be an easy path and shit will probably fuck up along the path umpteen times...but it's the right thing to do because thats what freedom and liberty requires and the pursuit of a world or a society where that shit doesn't have to be lessened or degraded for us to be able to reasonably claim to be committed to the idea of a peaceful existence.

I mean look, we all knew that from the get-go didn't we, that the easy way to a peaceful loving caring sharing society is to just legislate peoples freedoms and liberties out of existence, thats not some brilliant idea that Europe had or something, thats fuckin' obvious, weren't it? 'Hmm, how can we stop people killing each other? I know, we'll make it illegal to use your hands!', if you wanna go there, there's a solution to the fuckin' murder rate problem right there :lol:

Fuck that bullshit, we can all have a free just better society if you take away everyones rights, the cunts won't have a fuckin' choice one way or the other...but the right way to do shit is to have folks have their freedoms and the fuckin' better society be a construct of the will of the people, the majority, the populus, the motherfuckers that make up America.

Centuries of American society is understood and rightly represented by some fat pisshead Aussie comedian, yeah right. You can't legislate people into being good people, it comes from inside themselves or not at all.

Everyone treats America like the fuckin' well meaning but fundamentally retarded kid, like 'ahaha, we know whats best for you America, allow us to pontificate (yes, i see the irony again :lol:) and talk down to you because you're a bunch of thickos cuz we all know whats best for you in the long run', yeah, cuz they got to being a super-power by taking advice from people who put bits of string with corks dangling off the ends through their fuckin' hats :lol:

one of my favorite quotes i read so far

obama trusts iran with nukes, but not americans with guns :lol:

Actually the deal is that the Iranians are not going to have enough Uranium to build one nuclear bomb.

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It's funny how people get pissed off when America stick's its nose into "their" countries business.........but everybody and their brother (who don't live in America) thinks that they are the supreme authority on what Americans should do in terms of running the country.

What would happen if we let a majority vote of US citizens decide? Naw - we shouldn't do that. Let's just follow the lead of some random dude in Norway or Canada. They know much better than the people who live there. Even though they'd get pissed if we started doing the same thing to them about their country.

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But Jefferies makes a point about the Amendment being removable, that is what it is, it is a law that can change. As he pointed out, Prohibition became the law of the land and it was eventually thrown out.

My biggest thing with the Second Amendment that it was written back in a time when we just had muskets or long barreled rifles that took even longer to load. A lot has changed since then. Weapons have evolved and we have one of the largest and most powerful armed forces in the world. It is the US Constitution, not the Holy Bible or the Glorious Qu'ran.

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But Jefferies makes a point about the Amendment being removable, that is what it is, it is a law that can change. As he pointed out, Prohibition became the law of the land and it was eventually thrown out.

My biggest thing with the Second Amendment that it was written back in a time when we just had muskets or long barreled rifles that took even longer to load. A lot has changed since then. Weapons have evolved and we have one of the largest and most powerful armed forces in the world. It is the US Constitution, not the Holy Bible or the Glorious Qu'ran.

Jim is actually one of my favorite comedians. I love the guy. Loved his TV show - hilarious. Love his stand up.

But man. I respect his opinion, as I respect everybody's opinion. And I don't mind amendments and changing things as the times change.

But are we really going to take advice on changing our constitution based on the opinion of a millionaire stand-up comedian from another country?

I guess I wouldn't move to Switzerland and then six months later tell them everything what's wrong with their country and how to fix it. I "get" that is what happens on this forum on a daily basis. People that don't live in the US telling us what's wrong with our country and how things should be. I find that a bit arrogant, and something that I wouldn't do myself.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have guns. And if we did have weapons, they would only be used by the police and by hunters.

But that's not the world we live in today.

Hell, I was watching some stupid treasure hunting show based in Brazil last night. The treasure hunters were deadly afraid of Pirates coming and attacking their boat. The boat legally could NOT have a gun on board. The captain literally said "so only the criminal pirates have guns" and said to protect themselves they'd use boat battles, sticks, flair-gun, ect. They'd bring a knife to a gunfight. So it might be a cliché, but it holds truth. You can outlaw guns, but you can't make criminals turn them in.

Edited by Apollo
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It's funny how people get pissed off when America stick's its nose into "their" countries business.........but everybody and their brother (who don't live in America) thinks that they are the supreme authority on what Americans should do in terms of running the country.

What would happen if we let a majority vote of US citizens decide? Naw - we shouldn't do that. Let's just follow the lead of some random dude in Norway or Canada. They know much better than the people who live there. Even though they'd get pissed if we started doing the same thing to them about their country.

Nowhere have I even suggested that someone outside of USA should decide what happens in that country :D

I am just mirroring the arguments of people in the USA, and outside, who think the idea that the right to bear arms is unbreachable (is that the right word?) is ridiculous.

But are we really going to take advice on changing our constitution based on the opinion of a millionaire stand-up comedian from another country?

I think everybody should take advice from anybody as long as the advice is sound. And if it not like Jeffries is saying something millions of Americans aren't saying, too. He is just saying it very succinnctly and with humour. Dismissing his arguments just because he happens to be a foreigner, or a millionaire, or a comedian, is childish and just suggests you prefer not to focus on what he is actually saying.

Edited by SoulMonster
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I just think that more people should go look up the word amendment and go "Oh, wow, you can change it. Shit." and understand that the US Constitution is not some religious document, it can be changed by human beings.

The whole idea of the United States is to create a government for the people, by the people. Okay, so Americans have defended themselves with guns for decades. But it has gotten out of hand too many times. It should have stopped after Newtown and the Aurora shooting. You'd think everyone would jump on this after well to do white kids get blown away. No, instead it has made them firmer believers than ever.

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It's funny how people get pissed off when America stick's its nose into "their" countries business.........but everybody and their brother (who don't live in America) thinks that they are the supreme authority on what Americans should do in terms of running the country.

Probably because American intervention tends to result in hundreds of thousands of dead civilians whereas the worst they can expect in return is people being mean about gun laws on the internet. :lol:
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