magisme Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 It's not hard to see how you all succumb so easily to dictatorships, monarchies and fascism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Yep, not considering constitutions as sacred and immovable (still wondering about this word) and thinking that perhaps the US would do well to restrict their guns laws a bit, is a slippery slope to dictatorhips, fascism and...monarchies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Except no one gives a shit what some fat convict with a rapidly spreading widows peak thinks, fuck that America, never give up your fuckin' guns because why the fuck should you? End of the fuckin' day, loonies pull triggers pointing at innocents, thats the fuckin' long and short of it, as long as you ain't a fuckin' looney then there ain't no fuckin' problem, why the fuck should America be dictated to or feel pressured by a bunch of self righteous cunts that are oceans away from the fuckin' reality of whats going on whoose arguement is basically based around 'well i know what Americas like, I've seen it on the telly, ain't I?'. (yes i see the irony ).Seriously, fuck em, why should Americans get rid of their guns? Fuck that bullshit. Oh what, it can't be fuckin' freedom until you basically treat your population like fuckin' retards? No you may not own a gun because of the off chance you might be a fuckin' psychopath or given to behaving like a psychopath on occassion, way i see it America appears to be the only country truly committed to this fuckin' idea of freedom and liberty and all that bullshit because, look, everybody wants peace and love and lets all kiss each other on the fuckin' cheek and draw hearts on each other and all that fuckin' bullshit, it's just other countries think the way to get to that shit is to restrict their population into submission and America has the stones to attempt to try and find a way to do that shit whilst at the same time remaining committed to the principles upon which that fuckin' country was founded, to me thats fuckin' admirable. It won't be an easy path and shit will probably fuck up along the path umpteen times...but it's the right thing to do because thats what freedom and liberty requires and the pursuit of a world or a society where that shit doesn't have to be lessened or degraded for us to be able to reasonably claim to be committed to the idea of a peaceful existence.I mean look, we all knew that from the get-go didn't we, that the easy way to a peaceful loving caring sharing society is to just legislate peoples freedoms and liberties out of existence, thats not some brilliant idea that Europe had or something, thats fuckin' obvious, weren't it? 'Hmm, how can we stop people killing each other? I know, we'll make it illegal to use your hands!', if you wanna go there, there's a solution to the fuckin' murder rate problem right there Fuck that bullshit, we can all have a free just better society if you take away everyones rights, the cunts won't have a fuckin' choice one way or the other...but the right way to do shit is to have folks have their freedoms and the fuckin' better society be a construct of the will of the people, the majority, the populus, the motherfuckers that make up America. Centuries of American society is understood and rightly represented by some fat pisshead Aussie comedian, yeah right. You can't legislate people into being good people, it comes from inside themselves or not at all. Everyone treats America like the fuckin' well meaning but fundamentally retarded kid, like 'ahaha, we know whats best for you America, allow us to pontificate (yes, i see the irony again ) and talk down to you because you're a bunch of thickos cuz we all know whats best for you in the long run', yeah, cuz they got to being a super-power by taking advice from people who put bits of string with corks dangling off the ends through their fuckin' hats one of my favorite quotes i read so farobama trusts iran with nukes, but not americans with guns Actually the deal is that the Iranians are not going to have enough Uranium to build one nuclear bomb.do you actually trust them though georgy? what exactly is going to make them follow some agreement written on paper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 But surely an agreement with a provision that theyh should do so-and-so, and with possibilities of audits, is better than no agreement where they don't promise anything?Besides, are Iranians particularly shifty people or is this just a message in US propaganda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 But surely an agreement with a provision that theyh should do so-and-so, and with possibilities of audits, is better than no agreement where they don't promise anything?Besides, are Iranians particularly shifty people or is this just a message in US propaganda?i dont think it has anything to do with the iranian people, they are people just like everyone else. yeah a provision is nice but what does it really do? if the leadership is hellbent on doing what they keep saying they will do why would a piece of paper stop them? i never been to iran or any of that and would like to see what someone from iran thinks about it but it just seems kind of meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Iranians abroad tend to have little but contempt for the leaders in the country they left.I don't know, I just think an agreement is better than nothing. I don't think it will be broken like by default. I am not that cynical. Or maybe I am even more cynical, because a part of me thinks that Iran may be just imitating North Korea here by deliberately sending signals that might be interpretated into them having a nuclear war programme to force an agreement that is beneficial to them. Still, I am cautiously optimistic and applaud the efforts on both sides to get this agreement signed, and thus lessening the political tensions between US and Iran and restoring some normalcy to the Iranian people by lifting sanctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 But Jefferies makes a point about the Amendment being removable, that is what it is, it is a law that can change. As he pointed out, Prohibition became the law of the land and it was eventually thrown out. My biggest thing with the Second Amendment that it was written back in a time when we just had muskets or long barreled rifles that took even longer to load. A lot has changed since then. Weapons have evolved and we have one of the largest and most powerful armed forces in the world. It is the US Constitution, not the Holy Bible or the Glorious Qu'ran. Jim is actually one of my favorite comedians. I love the guy. Loved his TV show - hilarious. Love his stand up.But man. I respect his opinion, as I respect everybody's opinion. And I don't mind amendments and changing things as the times change.But are we really going to take advice on changing our constitution based on the opinion of a millionaire stand-up comedian from another country?I guess I wouldn't move to Switzerland and then six months later tell them everything what's wrong with their country and how to fix it. I "get" that is what happens on this forum on a daily basis. People that don't live in the US telling us what's wrong with our country and how things should be. I find that a bit arrogant, and something that I wouldn't do myself.In a perfect world, we wouldn't have guns. And if we did have weapons, they would only be used by the police and by hunters.But that's not the world we live in today.Hell, I was watching some stupid treasure hunting show based in Brazil last night. The treasure hunters were deadly afraid of Pirates coming and attacking their boat. The boat legally could NOT have a gun on board. The captain literally said "so only the criminal pirates have guns" and said to protect themselves they'd use boat battles, sticks, flair-gun, ect. They'd bring a knife to a gunfight. So it might be a cliché, but it holds truth. You can outlaw guns, but you can't make criminals turn them in.I couldn't give a toss about American gun legislation. Merely commentating on it in a desultory, semi bored, manner. People however have commented on other countries' contentious legislation here. I have a distinct memory of a thread about France banning the burka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Iranians abroad tend to have little but contempt for the leaders in the country they left.I don't know, I just think an agreement is better than nothing. I don't think it will be broken like by default. I am not that cynical. Or maybe I am even more cynical, because a part of me thinks that Iran may be just imitating North Korea here by deliberately sending signals that might be interpretated into them having a nuclear war programme to force an agreement that is beneficial to them. Still, I am cautiously optimistic and applaud the efforts on both sides to get this agreement signed, and thus lessening the political tensions between US and Iran and restoring some normalcy to the Iranian people by lifting sanctions.maybe your right we will see in the long run what comes of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Yeah, this is one of the good discussions where we at least hope for the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 It's not hard to see how you all succumb so easily to dictatorships, monarchies and fascism.Ooh, get em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabbath Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why does anyone need to own an M-16 or an AK-47? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why does anyone need to own an M-16 or an AK-47?What has need got to do with it? How many of your possessions are to do strictly with need? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why does anyone need to own an M-16 or an AK-47?They watched too many Rambo movies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Iranians abroad tend to have little but contempt for the leaders in the country they left.I don't know, I just think an agreement is better than nothing. I don't think it will be broken like by default. I am not that cynical. Or maybe I am even more cynical, because a part of me thinks that Iran may be just imitating North Korea here by deliberately sending signals that might be interpretated into them having a nuclear war programme to force an agreement that is beneficial to them. Still, I am cautiously optimistic and applaud the efforts on both sides to get this agreement signed, and thus lessening the political tensions between US and Iran and restoring some normalcy to the Iranian people by lifting sanctions.maybe your right we will see in the long run what comes of it. I think the destruction of Iran is not in the interest of its leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Yeah, this is one of the good discussions where we at least hope for the same thing.yeah definitely if it works im all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 It's not hard to see how you all succumb so easily to dictatorships, monarchies and fascism.Ooh, get em Really, though. So much of this bullshit is about, "You know, the authorities really need to step in and handle it." Well, fuck that. It might be part of your culture to call the cops or your local assemblyman, to cry bully to the principal every time someone is mean, to trust that some unaccountable panel of "experts" is on the case - but much of the US, not all, instinctively rejects that shit. If there's an issue, you know who's supposed to handle it? I'm supposed to handle it. Our country was birthed from a fundamental and justified antipathy toward concentrated power and authority. Sorry if you guys don't like it.I'll make a deal, though, because I'm a fair guy. Let's have the cops get rid of all of their guns and a let's dismantle the standing military and the military industrial complex. Then I'll have an open discussion about gun control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 It's not hard to see how you all succumb so easily to dictatorships, monarchies and fascism.Ooh, get em Really, though. So much of this bullshit is about, "You know, the authorities really need to step in and handle it." Well, fuck that. It might be part of your culture to call the cops or your local assemblyman, to cry bully to the principal every time someone is mean, to trust that some unaccountable panel of "experts" is on the case - but much of the US, not all, instinctively rejects that shit. If there's an issue, you know who's supposed to handle it? I'm supposed to handle it. Our country was birthed from a fundamental and justified antipathy toward concentrated power and authority. Sorry if you guys don't like it.I'll make a deal, though, because I'm a fair guy. Let's have the cops get rid of all of their guns and a let's dismantle the standing military and the military industrial complex. Then I'll have an open discussion about gun control.Agree with every word, particularly the last paragraph. I dont pretend to understand the American mentality of experience but I think I can get my head around principles and ideas and i truly believe what the American constitution proposes, ideologically speaking, is wholly honourable. I might have a problem with the way some of it was executed historically but quite frankly that goes for every country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Fuck the police! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 It's not hard to see how you all succumb so easily to dictatorships, monarchies and fascism.Ooh, get em Really, though. So much of this bullshit is about, "You know, the authorities really need to step in and handle it." Well, fuck that. It might be part of your culture to call the cops or your local assemblyman, to cry bully to the principal every time someone is mean, to trust that some unaccountable panel of "experts" is on the case - but much of the US, not all, instinctively rejects that shit. If there's an issue, you know who's supposed to handle it? I'm supposed to handle it. Our country was birthed from a fundamental and justified antipathy toward concentrated power and authority. Sorry if you guys don't like it.I'll make a deal, though, because I'm a fair guy. Let's have the cops get rid of all of their guns and a let's dismantle the standing military and the military industrial complex. Then I'll have an open discussion about gun control.Agree with every word, particularly the last paragraph. I dont pretend to understand the American mentality of experience but I think I can get my head around principles and ideas and i truly believe what the American constitution proposes, ideologically speaking, is wholly honourable. I might have a problem with the way some of it was executed historically but quite frankly that goes for every country.Obviously it's not a perfect document, neither in itself nor in its historical context. Almost no one believes it is. Talking about people who treat the Constitution like the Bible is nothing more than a red herring. However, in the Declaration and the Constitution there exists a spirit of liberty and a distrust of large, unchecked institutions, and those sentiments I will hold almost religiously. Tell me if you hold something better. Reduce pain, increase, uh, non-pain? Fuck off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 It's not hard to see how you all succumb so easily to dictatorships, monarchies and fascism.Ooh, get em Really, though. So much of this bullshit is about, "You know, the authorities really need to step in and handle it." Well, fuck that. It might be part of your culture to call the cops or your local assemblyman, to cry bully to the principal every time someone is mean, to trust that some unaccountable panel of "experts" is on the case - but much of the US, not all, instinctively rejects that shit. If there's an issue, you know who's supposed to handle it? I'm supposed to handle it. Our country was birthed from a fundamental and justified antipathy toward concentrated power and authority. Sorry if you guys don't like it.I'll make a deal, though, because I'm a fair guy. Let's have the cops get rid of all of their guns and a let's dismantle the standing military and the military industrial complex. Then I'll have an open discussion about gun control.Agree with every word, particularly the last paragraph. I dont pretend to understand the American mentality of experience but I think I can get my head around principles and ideas and i truly believe what the American constitution proposes, ideologically speaking, is wholly honourable. I might have a problem with the way some of it was executed historically but quite frankly that goes for every country.Obviously it's not a perfect document, neither in itself nor in its historical context. Almost no one believes it is. Talking about people who treat the Constitution like the Bible is nothing more than a red herring. However, in the Declaration and the Constitution there exists a spirit of liberty and a distrust of large, unchecked institutions, and those sentiments I will hold almost religiously. Tell me if you hold something better. Reduce pain, increase, uh, non-pain? Fuck off.Hey, I grew up on punk, thats music to my ears there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I didn't mean "you" like Len-you, I meant it like this prevailing technocratic mentality where the best society is mixed just right with all the right proportions in the chem lab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I got'cha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabbath Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why does anyone need to own an M-16 or an AK-47?What has need got to do with it? How many of your possessions are to do strictly with need?Because my need for a 65" TV doesn't put other people's lives possibly in danger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Why does anyone need to own an M-16 or an AK-47?What has need got to do with it? How many of your possessions are to do strictly with need?Because my need for a 65" TV doesn't put other people's lives possibly in danger I dont believe you, i dont trust you, i dont trust your ability to refrain from bashing someones head in with it, its dangerous, you shouldn't have one. Edited July 23, 2015 by Len B'stard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Why does anyone need to own an M-16 or an AK-47?What has need got to do with it? How many of your possessions are to do strictly with need?Because my need for a 65" TV doesn't put other people's lives possibly in danger Agree with Len, if you're insane enough to murder someone with a gun, are you not insane enough to bash their head in with something else?The psychopath who shoots up a mall is the same psychopath who builds a pipe bomb if he doesn't have access to a gun. Killers are already killers, guns don't make them that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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