tomfriend Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I don't think Axl wanted to release CD when it was but I don't think he had a choice at that time. Axl almost had a nervous breakdown when UYI 1 and 2 were released, so I guess he wants to take his time from now on.Well, he can take forever now that pretty much nobody gives a fuck anymore and his band consists of him and his nanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Dre is clearly lying.What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Dre is clearly lying.What do you mean?He dont give a shit about quality of music, he releases stuff based on a marketing hook, everything he releases is massive cuz it comes on the coattails or is set up to introduce something thats massive, his debut rode on Snoop, 2001 rode on him having found Eminem and the public at that time being primed for that shit, thats why we aint heard no Detox, he hasnt had anything to wrap it around that'd carry it for him. 'He dont give a shit about wuality of music is putting it harsh, im sure he does but what i mean to say is this bullshit he gives off that its too do with some magical standard he has where things have got to be juuuuuuust right with the music, like he's been tinkering with Stan the Guitar Man the whole time is fuckin' bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay410 Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Dre is clearly lying.What do you mean?I definitely can see it in that I'm sure Dre doesn't actually dislike the album and doesn't think it's good enough, but his business and marketing acumen was able to realize that any album called Detox, especially after witnessing the public's General ambivalence to CD, would be doomed to be a disappointment regardless of the quality of the work. So Dre buries Detox and releases what he says is a completely different album, removing the baggage that Detox specifically would carry. That is the real point I was getting at. It's irrelevant if Axl really liked or disliked CD, but it's a matter of if Axl were to have publicly dropped the CD concept all together, would a hypothetical nugnr release have done better critically and commercially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 not every article or news story is somehow relatable to Axl... Axl thought and still believes that the music he made for CD was good, maybe even great. Dre probably made an actual album of stinkers something close to Chris Cornells -Scream. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Dre is clearly lying.What do you mean?I definitely can see it in that I'm sure Dre doesn't actually dislike the album and doesn't think it's good enough, but his business and marketing acumen was able to realize that any album called Detox, especially after witnessing the public's General ambivalence to CD, would be doomed to be a disappointment regardless of the quality of the work. So Dre buries Detox and releases what he says is a completely different album, removing the baggage that Detox specifically would carry. Really? I don't think Dre is even that aware or Axl or gives a fuck, i think thats a laughable idea, why would you think something like that? You before the example of CD it had taken Dre 9 years to release his own follow up to The Chronic, he hardly needed Axl as an example in that regard Edited August 2, 2015 by Len B'stard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 not every article or news story is somehow relatable to Axl... True, but this one definitely is.....@Len: If what you're saying is right, why not release Detox in conjunction with this movie? It does seem like he's afraid of the letdown like TeeJay is saying, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Because there's nothing about this movie that necessarily translates to a kind of assurance of quality in the music itself, as there was with the first Chronic with Snoop or the second one with Em' et al poking around in it. Wrapping it around the movie would just be like wrapping Aftermath Presents around the fact HE was launching a label...and that album flopped lower than whale shit, he ain't gonna make that mistake again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Loss aversion, all humans have it. Axl kind of got into it. Axl kind of got into it, and fought and wrestle it. He's angry he sad, he in denial, he has a smile. Sure the best thing was to shelve CD and do a reunion like Slash wanted etc. but the interesting thing was to stay in the shit and write about it and keep fighting. Its got a bit more to it than trying to fake it. But rap is different. They all think they are hustlers so to sell out is their move. 50 thinks he smart for making 50 mil from Vitamin water. Only Kanye can write about losing celebrity pussy in 3 years. Gangster rappers just got the money and bitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 There's a lot of good stuff on Chinese Democracy. It has some throwaway songs for sure, but so did Use Your Illusion.Throw away songsChinese Democracy - SOD, TWAT, If the World, Catcher in the Rye, Scraped, Riad N' the Bedouins, Sorry, IRS, This I Love, Madagascar - 9UYI I & II - Dust N' Bones, You Ain't The First, Bad Obsession, Bad Apple, Garden of Eden / Get in the Ring, Shotgun Blues, Pretty Tied Up, So Fine, My World - 10 or 13 if you include one version of Don't Cry and the two coversDon't agree with your lists. What exactly is a throw away song? something long and meandering, something that's short and simple? A lot of people love a lot of those songs. I for one love Dust N' Bones, Sod, Sorry, If the world, pretty tied up, This I love and Bad obsession. And the others you listed may not be classic Guns quality but they are not all throw away. TWAT is a reasonable song, a bit over done, Scraped, Riad, catcher, Madagascar and IRS are songs that I rarely listen to though too much of everything. Garden of eden is the closest thing to a throw away song but it's cool and off the cuff, hard rock similar to the AFD feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Because there's nothing about this movie that necessarily translates to a kind of assurance of quality in the music itself, as there was with the first Chronic with Snoop or the second one with Em' et al poking around in it. Wrapping it around the movie would just be like wrapping Aftermath Presents around the fact HE was launching a label...and that album flopped lower than whale shit, he ain't gonna make that mistake again.I hear ya. Why say it's not good enough, though? What's the upside for him with that? Why not just keep it a mystery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Because there's nothing about this movie that necessarily translates to a kind of assurance of quality in the music itself, as there was with the first Chronic with Snoop or the second one with Em' et al poking around in it. Wrapping it around the movie would just be like wrapping Aftermath Presents around the fact HE was launching a label...and that album flopped lower than whale shit, he ain't gonna make that mistake again.I hear ya. Why say it's not good enough, though? What's the upside for him with that? Why not just keep it a mystery?Cuz it makes you sound like the mad genius perfectionist professor of hip hop and perpetuates a certain myth about you and this idea that everything he touches turns to gold. Cuz there's just SOMETHING to that ear of his. Which i don't deny there is but he's no genius and never has been. The Abbott is more out and out genius than him, The Abbotts a bastard really, we all know he could easily reproduce the kind shit we love him for, he just won't cuz his head is somewhere else. Admirable to some extent I suppose. Edited August 2, 2015 by Len B'stard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkuk04 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Don't think Dre had the pressure that Axl had to release CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The Abbott is more out and out genius than himYou know I'm not going to argue with that.Don't think Dre had the pressure that Axl had to release CD.You're right. A lot more people are hyped about Detox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 not every article or news story is somehow relatable to Axl... True, but this one definitely is.....@Len: If what you're saying is right, why not release Detox in conjunction with this movie? It does seem like he's afraid of the letdown like TeeJay is saying, no?For you definitely, but I honestly like the majority of CD. Not for everyone and it has many flaws but it ain't a bad album, and was certainly worth releasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 not every article or news story is somehow relatable to Axl... True, but this one definitely is.....@Len: If what you're saying is right, why not release Detox in conjunction with this movie? It does seem like he's afraid of the letdown like TeeJay is saying, no?For you definitely, but I honestly like the majority of CD. Not for everyone and it has many flaws but it ain't a bad album, and was certainly worth releasing.OK. That's fine that you like it, but a lot of people don't. A lot of people think it was a tremendous letdown. I'm just saying that the thread makes sense, not that everyone will agree with its premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay410 Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Dre is clearly lying.What do you mean?I definitely can see it in that I'm sure Dre doesn't actually dislike the album and doesn't think it's good enough, but his business and marketing acumen was able to realize that any album called Detox, especially after witnessing the public's General ambivalence to CD, would be doomed to be a disappointment regardless of the quality of the work. So Dre buries Detox and releases what he says is a completely different album, removing the baggage that Detox specifically would carry. Really? I don't think Dre is even that aware or Axl or gives a fuck, i think thats a laughable idea, why would you think something like that? You before the example of CD it had taken Dre 9 years to release his own follow up to The Chronic, he hardly needed Axl as an example in that regard Dre was still very active musically and in the public eye between the Chronic and 2001. But after about 2005, the album "Documentary" with the Game, he more or less disappeared, only producing here and there and concentrating on beats until "I need a doctor" with Eminem. The pressure was far greater with Detox. Especially with Jimmy Iovine as his best buddy, there is no way Dre wasn't aware of the Guns situation. There's also no way his business mind wouldn't take note of that, of what happens in a digital age to albums with years of anticipation. I'm pretty sure he's commented publicly on the Chinese democracy comparisons. He certainly was aware of Axl in the 90's wearing an NWA hat, recalling seeing it as the moment when he "made it." I do agree however with your other comments he doesn't necessarily care or have an opinion about the quality. Or at the very base he doesn't believe what he said. However the intent of the comment was to bury Detox and to release music without the baggage of it. For all we know this is the same damn album with different branding, which is sort of my point here. If the same quality of music didn't have to be held to such an impossible standard of the perfect rock album, or at least to justify $14 million, it may have been treated more fairly. That appears to be Dre's goal with these comments. Edited August 2, 2015 by TeeJay410 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IZZYISGNR Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) For you definitely, but I honestly like the majority of CD. Not for everyone and it has many flaws but it ain't a bad album, and was certainly worth releasing. Maybe it was worth releasing, but now it's really time to put an end to that era. The CD era wasn't good for Axl (just take a look at him), it wasn't good for the fans (most of us have become insane ).One album in 24 years, that's terrible. Axl needs to take a new direction with the help of Slash, Izzy and Duff. Edited August 2, 2015 by IZZYISGNR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post recklessroad Posted August 2, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2015 CD is a great record 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) not every article or news story is somehow relatable to Axl... True, but this one definitely is.....@Len: If what you're saying is right, why not release Detox in conjunction with this movie? It does seem like he's afraid of the letdown like TeeJay is saying, no?For you definitely, but I honestly like the majority of CD. Not for everyone and it has many flaws but it ain't a bad album, and was certainly worth releasing.OK. That's fine that you like it, but a lot of people don't. A lot of people think it was a tremendous letdown. I'm just saying that the thread makes sense, not that everyone will agree with its premise.I think CD gets dissected enough on this forum so we won't go down that particular rabbit hole. But I agree, it wasn't for everyone and that's likely why it appealed to some people a lot more than others. I have zero problems with people disliking the album, my feathers get ruffled when some tool who hasn't even heard the album starts spouting bullshit about it (because it's incredibly hip to hate Gnr) but I can safely say everyone on here has at least heard some version of the CD album so fire away as long as nobody starts telling me what I should and shouldn't be listening to.For you definitely, but I honestly like the majority of CD. Not for everyone and it has many flaws but it ain't a bad album, and was certainly worth releasing. Maybe it was worth releasing, but now it's really time to put an end to that era. The CD era wasn't good for Axl (just take a look at him), it wasn't good for the fans (most of us have become insane ).One album in 24 years, that's terrible. Axl needs to take a new direction with the help of Slash, Izzy and Duff. I agree, he has definitely messed his reputation up far worse since releasing CD than he had before it. And that's a combo of the reception to the album, the late starts, the new heavy look, the new weak voice... the management. I like the direction of the music on CD, but if CD II means more of what I just listed I'm 100% with you. Edited August 2, 2015 by Tom2112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseIRS Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 not every article or news story is somehow relatable to Axl... Axl thought and still believes that the music he made for CD was good, maybe even great. Dre probably made an actual album of stinkers something close to Chris Cornells -Scream.Rolling Stone called it the 'Chinese Democracy' of hip hop, so it is kind of relatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 When it comes down to it, Dre and Cube are at a different place in their lives and Dre's more of a producer than performer. Chris Cornell's "Scream" is what happens when they listened to Jimmy Iovine. Trent Reznor passed on Timbaland after hearing him do a NIN remix, I don't know if Timbaland is one of the producers that did the ChiDem remixes, but it wouldn't surprise me. A good source would have to answer that one, or Axl himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay410 Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 When it comes down to it, Dre and Cube are at a different place in their lives and Dre's more of a producer than performer. Chris Cornell's "Scream" is what happens when they listened to Jimmy Iovine. Trent Reznor passed on Timbaland after hearing him do a NIN remix, I don't know if Timbaland is one of the producers that did the ChiDem remixes, but it wouldn't surprise me. A good source would have to answer that one, or Axl himself. In the infamous MSL email leaks, there was reference to Axl being frustrated with Dre taking so long on a remix. Pretty ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merslain Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I always figured Detox slowly got cut up and sold, I would think much better business sense in the long run. "I need a doctor" is more an Em song, even though it's talking to Dre. Kush could easily have gone on a Snoop album. Or hell, both work as singles and in our digital age one doesn't need to have a whole album to distributeHad Detox come out as a contained album I am guessing it would have been like Timbaland's Shock Value. Rap/RnB is different than rock in how songs get passed around and whose albums they go on. With Dre putting ideas that could have been on Detox on Em, 50, Game, etc... Albums he is able to assist with other careers. Not sure if a bigger gain is made by releasing one album or getting credits elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nambis Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 This new Compton soundtrack IS detox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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