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Dear Fermanager,: A Retrospective


magisme

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The stupid "what is your favorite country food?" question was cringeworthy.

Important information, dude ;)

Has anyone ever met anyone from GnR's management team in person to get an impression of things via talking to them?

Few fans and I spoke to Fernando outside L'Arc back in 2010. Basically same thing as here, friendly guy but when questions were brought up about new music etc. you could tell he was frustrated. Axl got asked about a new album and he said "We'll see what our deal with the label is." Only other thing I remember was somebody asking Fernando before Axl came about Slash and he said, "Hey, I like his music, too, but you know how Axl is" or something like that. Basically what he said here about liking all line-ups.

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My feelings on "the visit"?

He dropped in, not stating it was any more than that. Mended a fence but didn't tear any of them down.

Made me laugh once.

Said he couldn't tell us much and then didn't tell us much.

Nice jump in an otherwise bland day.

So I was okay with it.

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I just viewed it as a "breaking the ice" type of deal. Like a step made to possibly have more contact with us directly in the future. Not meant to give us answers persay, but we did get confirmation finally that BBF is out and that we havent seen the last of Axl. There really wasnt any negative from his visit.

That's the way I saw it. I was bored, browsed through some old threads, noticed it was busy, wondered why, spotted the thread and caught up with it. It was clear that the guy couldn't say much, so I asked him a question about Dijon. :P Like you say, I viewed it as a "breaking the ice" kind of deal.

Would I have liked to know about new music, a tour, and other relevant information? Sure. But it was a nice little break from the regular quiet, and at least we know a tiny bit more than we did before.

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Basically GnR's management team has no clue what they are doing. And they have little regard for FANS of Axl Rose and GnR.

Other than that, he seemed like a pretty funny guy.

Not sure what you're predicating this on. How do they not know what they're doing? Because GNR hasn't released a new album? Is that really management's fault of the artist's?

For those who say they have little regard for fans of Axl and GNR, why? Should Fernando not have come here and said a few things? Do you expect him to break his boss's directions and dish on everything through improper channels?

Again, I get the frustration with GNR as a whole, but not sure why people think it's management's fault. Maybe some of it is, but if we look back at GNR's history over the past two decades, what's the common denominator?

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Basically GnR's management team has no clue what they are doing. And they have little regard for FANS of Axl Rose and GnR.

Other than that, he seemed like a pretty funny guy.

Not sure what you're predicating this on. How do they not know what they're doing? Because GNR hasn't released a new album? Is that really management's fault of the artist's?

For those who say they have little regard for fans of Axl and GNR, why? Should Fernando not have come here and said a few things? Do you expect him to break his boss's directions and dish on everything through improper channels?

Again, I get the frustration with GNR as a whole, but not sure why people think it's management's fault. Maybe some of it is, but if we look back at GNR's history over the past two decades, what's the common denominator?

Because a proper management team knows how to run the public relations side of a band the stature of guns n roses.

A proper management team doesn't insult the entire fanbase based on the few random forum posts on the internet.

They don't label a fanbase as racists. They don't label a fan base as doing nothing but complaints, comaints, complaints. They don't keep their fanbase completely in the dark about the status of the band. Do you not see how ridiculous the three hour meeting stuff is?

Lead guitar player quits. No comment

2nd guitar player quits. No comment.

Is there another tour? Is the follow up to the 7-year old album ever going to be released? Or has Axl decided to just retire?

Those are a couple basic things that EVERY other band in the world would communicate with their fans about.

Every other band in the world talks about their future albums. Bon Jovi just released a basically B-sides album. And while promoting it, JBJ is already taking about his next album.

A proper manager could have a simple conversation with the eccentric Axl and say they understand he views his music like its CIA military secret level type information. But how about letting them release a three sentence comment on BBF leaving. And on DJ leaving. And aomehing very simple every six months about the status of GnR.

"GnR is alive and well. Spending time relaxing and recharging the batteries. Still working on the CD follow up. Don't expect anything in the next six months. Hopefully the bus will get rolling in the summer of 2016. The General sounds killer. Thanks for your patience and enjoy your summer."

That took me thirty seconds to type. Gave no specific date. Covered all the bases. Didn't give any real specific top secret info. But gave the fans something to digest.

After X amount of time, Ron Bumblefoot Thal has decided to leave the GNR family to pursue his solo career. It was a great run and we can't wait to hear what music BBF creates in the future.

Damn, another one!!! After six amazing years, DJ has left GNR to concentrate on his other band Sixx AM. We wish him the best! Any of you shredders out there need a job?

There. Those took about thirty seconds to type. I don't see how Axl would see any of those three and get mad and fire them.

A good management team could show their client how just the tiniest amount of updating their fans would bring the band a mountain of good will.

I'm not talking a feature story in rolling stone. Not talking about weekly updates. I'm not talking about revealing top secret military level secrets about a rock n roll album. But a brief statement about band members leaving. And she status of the band. Come on now. How can you defend that.

*****

And yes.

If u come to the forum representing GnR - then give the fans some news.

If you come here as a dude who just happens to live off of Axl - then cool. Post in a few topics. Answer some weird fan questions about Axl's cat or what his (Fernando's) favorite song or touring spot is.

But to come here and do neither of those things? Other than maybe we will have an update in a few months. Why bother coming here at all?

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it was a half assed attempt at damage control nothing more, nothing less. the shit show that is gnr has reached a limit with axl wheezing, sounding like ass, forgetting lyrics appearing to have a heart attack on stage at the benefit concert. your two guitarist said fuck you and jumped ship including the guy everyone thought would go down with it. fans are pissed since there is jack shit on the horizon for new music or really anything when it comes to guns n roses.

team brazil knew this and needed some kind of damage control to keep some fans somewhat interested in this joke for the occasional time they manage(lol) to waddle axls ass onto stage with whoever the fuck they decide to fill on guitar so axl can do his residency or his "limited dates" run where you can put forth no effort and fuck over his fans for a big paycheck just to fuck off and disappear rinse and repeat.

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Basically GnR's management team has no clue what they are doing. And they have little regard for FANS of Axl Rose and GnR.

Other than that, he seemed like a pretty funny guy.

Not sure what you're predicating this on. How do they not know what they're doing? Because GNR hasn't released a new album? Is that really management's fault of the artist's?

For those who say they have little regard for fans of Axl and GNR, why? Should Fernando not have come here and said a few things? Do you expect him to break his boss's directions and dish on everything through improper channels?

Again, I get the frustration with GNR as a whole, but not sure why people think it's management's fault. Maybe some of it is, but if we look back at GNR's history over the past two decades, what's the common denominator?

Because a proper management team knows how to run the public relations side of a band the stature of guns n roses.

A proper management team doesn't insult the entire fanbase based on the few random forum posts on the internet.

They don't label a fanbase as racists. They don't label a fan base as doing nothing but complaints, comaints, complaints. They don't keep their fanbase completely in the dark about the status of the band. Do you not see how ridiculous the three hour meeting stuff is?

Lead guitar player quits. No comment

2nd guitar player quits. No comment.

Is there another tour? Is the follow up to the 7-year old album ever going to be released? Or has Axl decided to just retire?

Those are a couple basic things that EVERY other band in the world would communicate with their fans about.

Every other band in the world talks about their future albums. Bon Jovi just released a basically B-sides album. And while promoting it, JBJ is already taking about his next album.

A proper manager could have a simple conversation with the eccentric Axl and say they understand he views his music like its CIA military secret level type information. But how about letting them release a three sentence comment on BBF leaving. And on DJ leaving. And aomehing very simple every six months about the status of GnR.

"GnR is alive and well. Spending time relaxing and recharging the batteries. Still working on the CD follow up. Don't expect anything in the next six months. Hopefully the bus will get rolling in the summer of 2016. The General sounds killer. Thanks for your patience and enjoy your summer."

That took me thirty seconds to type. Gave no specific date. Covered all the bases. Didn't give any real specific top secret info. But gave the fans something to digest.

After X amount of time, Ron Bumblefoot Thal has decided to leave the GNR family to pursue his solo career. It was a great run and we can't wait to hear what music BBF creates in the future.

Damn, another one!!! After six amazing years, DJ has left GNR to concentrate on his other band Sixx AM. We wish him the best! Any of you shredders out there need a job?

There. Those took about thirty seconds to type. I don't see how Axl would see any of those three and get mad and fire them.

A good management team could show their client how just the tiniest amount of updating their fans would bring the band a mountain of good will.

I'm not talking a feature story in rolling stone. Not talking about weekly updates. I'm not talking about revealing top secret military level secrets about a rock n roll album. But a brief statement about band members leaving. And she status of the band. Come on now. How can you defend that.

*****

And yes.

If u come to the forum representing GnR - then give the fans some news.

If you come here as a dude who just happens to live off of Axl - then cool. Post in a few topics. Answer some weird fan questions about Axl's cat or what his (Fernando's) favorite song or touring spot is.

But to come here and do neither of those things? Other than maybe we will have an update in a few months. Why bother coming here at all?

TB isn't GNR's public relations person. The band hires a separate identity to handle all official PR. Fernando wasn't here on an official PR basis. As was noted numerous times by the mod team, his participation was based on an informal and personal level.

Where does Fernando insult the entire fanbase? I saw a few comments that were directed at individual members who initiated with personal attacks, but nothing of which you describe.

As I noted before, many people use the terms racist and discriminatory interchangeably. Considering Brazilian isn't a race, let's give Fernando the benefit of the doubt that he intended to say discriminatory versus the term racism.

GNR's management isn't the one calling the shots. Yes, we'd all like definitive answers as to what's going on with the band, but until either management or the band's PR gets approval from the boss man there's not much they can say. What do you expect them to do, break rank with the man who provides them with pay cheques? Do you do that in your own job?

I'm not sure why this is news to people like yourself Apollo after following Axl and GNR for so many years: GNR isn't like most other bands. It doesn't operate as most bands do and should. In fact, its actions have been fairly consistent for the past 20 years, regardless of who managed the band. Expecting anything more from what we've received for most of the band's history post 1994 is really on you. Nobody is forcing you to follow the band, nobody is making you care. Personally, while I'm a fan of the music and hope for the best, I stopped caring whether I hear new music today or years from now. Perhaps I've got more things in my life now than I did back in my early 20s when new GNR music mattered most in my life, but it's put things in perspective. There's absolutely no point in continually griping about stuff that you can't control.

Honestly, at this point, what difference is a three sentence statement going to make on the status of DJ or Ron? Now that it has been confirmed by all parties (save for Ron, for some strange reason), what's left to be said? Should GNR have cleared things up a year ago about Ron? Yeah, probably. But perhaps they were hoping he'd come back and didn't want to burn any bridges. But that kind of calculation isn't something that needs to be explained to fans. We're all (well, a vast majority of us) here for Axl anyway, so what difference does it make if Ron left for whatever reason?

You honestly don't think TB doesn't share some of the fans frustration? You really don't think they haven't spoken to Axl about his unwillingness to communicate to fans? Really? That's crazy. Even Fernando acknowledged last week that he gets frustrated with Axl. And I'm sure the feeling is mutual. The reality is that Axl is an insanely private person. He rarely spoke out when he felt others were disparaging his name and reputation, so why do you think he's going to suddenly open up because you personally feel he should? Undoubtedly it's costing him fan support and money, but I'd like to think Axl's aware of that. He, like all of us, has his own personal demons, but I would like to assume he's smart enough to acknowledge the consequences of radio silence as a basic PR policy.

Basically your argument is that Fernando should not have appeared at all unless he was willing to give you the news you were looking for. You're within your right to hold that opinion and express it here, but myself and others whole heartedly disagree. Again, you're asking management to either stay silent and cease all interaction with fans (regardless of how trivial) or disregard their client's request and publicize the news you want to here. Those are the only two options you seem content with. You're acting as though Fernando said nothing worthwhile at all. He commented on Ron and DJ leaving, he confirmed that there are plans and that he expects to share news in a few months, that Axl is doing well, and some more trivial stuff like where the best groupies can be found. Is it earth shattering GNR news? No. But was it still interesting to hear? For me personally, and I would assume many others, the answer is yes.

Lol. Cool, so now we know who your inside source is with the band.

So let's turn your argument around.

I said they are in over their heads as managing a band the stature of GnR.

You said they have no control of an album, a tour or in anything Axl does or how he runs the band. You said they have no control over GnR's public relations team. Who hires them if not the management team?

You give praise for Fernando finally commenting on BBF leaving. How long did that take? Months to get a statement

Ok.

Your turn. Tell me why I'm wrong in thinking they are in over their heads. List all the reasons they are a great management team.

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

PS you asked why should he be friendly to people that have disparages him in the past. Really? That one statement right there pretty much describes why he and his mother aren't a great management team for a multimillion dollar entertainment corporation. Scott Boras is the most successful sports agent of all time. Do you think he holds personal grudges against fans who call him mean? A professional management team should act like .....oh, I don't know.....professional? And not have their feelings hurt if some random dude on the internet says he isn't doing a good job.

PSS you say there is no point in griping about things I can't control. Ok. Does that same logic apply to you? Does that mean I won't see any posts from you in the next month complaint and griping about one side of a political party of a country you don't even live in? Why is it OK for you to do that?

So what is your suggestion then? None of us are allowed to complain about the state of GnR right now? Are you going to turn this into HTGTH because you have a friendship with band management now?

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Which should come as no surprise to any regular here.

It is not about surprise. The issue is when shit happens they get expossed to the world as doing nothing cluless management. And also Axl, the guy thinks he is in control when in reality there is a state of anarchy.

We have Richard saying things are up in the air but Frank says the band is moving forward and on top of that reunion rumors. Go figure!

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Basically GnR's management team has no clue what they are doing. And they have little regard for FANS of Axl Rose and GnR.

Other than that, he seemed like a pretty funny guy.

Not sure what you're predicating this on. How do they not know what they're doing? Because GNR hasn't released a new album? Is that really management's fault of the artist's?

For those who say they have little regard for fans of Axl and GNR, why? Should Fernando not have come here and said a few things? Do you expect him to break his boss's directions and dish on everything through improper channels?

Again, I get the frustration with GNR as a whole, but not sure why people think it's management's fault. Maybe some of it is, but if we look back at GNR's history over the past two decades, what's the common denominator?

Because a proper management team knows how to run the public relations side of a band the stature of guns n roses.

A proper management team doesn't insult the entire fanbase based on the few random forum posts on the internet.

They don't label a fanbase as racists. They don't label a fan base as doing nothing but complaints, comaints, complaints. They don't keep their fanbase completely in the dark about the status of the band. Do you not see how ridiculous the three hour meeting stuff is?

Lead guitar player quits. No comment

2nd guitar player quits. No comment.

Is there another tour? Is the follow up to the 7-year old album ever going to be released? Or has Axl decided to just retire?

Those are a couple basic things that EVERY other band in the world would communicate with their fans about.

Every other band in the world talks about their future albums. Bon Jovi just released a basically B-sides album. And while promoting it, JBJ is already taking about his next album.

A proper manager could have a simple conversation with the eccentric Axl and say they understand he views his music like its CIA military secret level type information. But how about letting them release a three sentence comment on BBF leaving. And on DJ leaving. And aomehing very simple every six months about the status of GnR.

"GnR is alive and well. Spending time relaxing and recharging the batteries. Still working on the CD follow up. Don't expect anything in the next six months. Hopefully the bus will get rolling in the summer of 2016. The General sounds killer. Thanks for your patience and enjoy your summer."

That took me thirty seconds to type. Gave no specific date. Covered all the bases. Didn't give any real specific top secret info. But gave the fans something to digest.

After X amount of time, Ron Bumblefoot Thal has decided to leave the GNR family to pursue his solo career. It was a great run and we can't wait to hear what music BBF creates in the future.

Damn, another one!!! After six amazing years, DJ has left GNR to concentrate on his other band Sixx AM. We wish him the best! Any of you shredders out there need a job?

There. Those took about thirty seconds to type. I don't see how Axl would see any of those three and get mad and fire them.

A good management team could show their client how just the tiniest amount of updating their fans would bring the band a mountain of good will.

I'm not talking a feature story in rolling stone. Not talking about weekly updates. I'm not talking about revealing top secret military level secrets about a rock n roll album. But a brief statement about band members leaving. And she status of the band. Come on now. How can you defend that.

*****

And yes.

If u come to the forum representing GnR - then give the fans some news.

If you come here as a dude who just happens to live off of Axl - then cool. Post in a few topics. Answer some weird fan questions about Axl's cat or what his (Fernando's) favorite song or touring spot is.

But to come here and do neither of those things? Other than maybe we will have an update in a few months. Why bother coming here at all?

TB isn't GNR's public relations person. The band hires a separate identity to handle all official PR. Fernando wasn't here on an official PR basis. As was noted numerous times by the mod team, his participation was based on an informal and personal level.

Where does Fernando insult the entire fanbase? I saw a few comments that were directed at individual members who initiated with personal attacks, but nothing of which you describe.

As I noted before, many people use the terms racist and discriminatory interchangeably. Considering Brazilian isn't a race, let's give Fernando the benefit of the doubt that he intended to say discriminatory versus the term racism.

GNR's management isn't the one calling the shots. Yes, we'd all like definitive answers as to what's going on with the band, but until either management or the band's PR gets approval from the boss man there's not much they can say. What do you expect them to do, break rank with the man who provides them with pay cheques? Do you do that in your own job?

I'm not sure why this is news to people like yourself Apollo after following Axl and GNR for so many years: GNR isn't like most other bands. It doesn't operate as most bands do and should. In fact, its actions have been fairly consistent for the past 20 years, regardless of who managed the band. Expecting anything more from what we've received for most of the band's history post 1994 is really on you. Nobody is forcing you to follow the band, nobody is making you care. Personally, while I'm a fan of the music and hope for the best, I stopped caring whether I hear new music today or years from now. Perhaps I've got more things in my life now than I did back in my early 20s when new GNR music mattered most in my life, but it's put things in perspective. There's absolutely no point in continually griping about stuff that you can't control.

Honestly, at this point, what difference is a three sentence statement going to make on the status of DJ or Ron? Now that it has been confirmed by all parties (save for Ron, for some strange reason), what's left to be said? Should GNR have cleared things up a year ago about Ron? Yeah, probably. But perhaps they were hoping he'd come back and didn't want to burn any bridges. But that kind of calculation isn't something that needs to be explained to fans. We're all (well, a vast majority of us) here for Axl anyway, so what difference does it make if Ron left for whatever reason?

You honestly don't think TB doesn't share some of the fans frustration? You really don't think they haven't spoken to Axl about his unwillingness to communicate to fans? Really? That's crazy. Even Fernando acknowledged last week that he gets frustrated with Axl. And I'm sure the feeling is mutual. The reality is that Axl is an insanely private person. He rarely spoke out when he felt others were disparaging his name and reputation, so why do you think he's going to suddenly open up because you personally feel he should? Undoubtedly it's costing him fan support and money, but I'd like to think Axl's aware of that. He, like all of us, has his own personal demons, but I would like to assume he's smart enough to acknowledge the consequences of radio silence as a basic PR policy.

Basically your argument is that Fernando should not have appeared at all unless he was willing to give you the news you were looking for. You're within your right to hold that opinion and express it here, but myself and others whole heartedly disagree. Again, you're asking management to either stay silent and cease all interaction with fans (regardless of how trivial) or disregard their client's request and publicize the news you want to here. Those are the only two options you seem content with. You're acting as though Fernando said nothing worthwhile at all. He commented on Ron and DJ leaving, he confirmed that there are plans and that he expects to share news in a few months, that Axl is doing well, and some more trivial stuff like where the best groupies can be found. Is it earth shattering GNR news? No. But was it still interesting to hear? For me personally, and I would assume many others, the answer is yes.

Just a few comments:

- You argue that Fernando wasn't here on "official PR basis". That may be true, but as a representative of a rock group's management visiting a fan forum dedicated to that group, he should know that his actions would reflect on both his organization and the group. He is a representative of Team Brazil 24/7 whether he wants it or not, and especially when visiting the fans of the band he supposedly manages. And as such we would expect him to act professional in his answers and conduct. It's the same with any other employee: you are expected to not act in a way that would harm your employer, even outside of business hours.

- We might know that Team Brazil is put in an awkward position by their client and that it is not their fault they can't divulge more information, but not every member here might understand this dynamic. Seeing a representative of management cherry pick questions, obviously refusing to answer some questions that were both polite and pertinent, and answering others in an unprofessional manner, they might be led to believe that the problem is Team Brazil, and not Axl Rose. Even if their client is a pain in the ass, they should still strive to make all their dealings that may potentially harm their client, as professional as possible. And yeah, their job might not be PR, but even managers who decide to make statements in public should know the rudimentaries of good public relations so as to not harm their client or themselves. And if they are unable to do that, then they should refrain from making public statements. I am sorry Fernando, but you can't expect to just show up at a GN'R fan forum to shoot shit, joke around, and avoid difficult questions and expect such an appearance to have no bearing on your job or your client.

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The bottom line is that GNR is a fucking shambles and probably always has been.

People around Axl are so used to it now, its normality to them.

The old guys were in deep despair with it, and here we are 25 years later with the same shit going on.

It was more fun when the band were young, drunk and crazy; not so much when they are old, tubby, grumpy, money hungry, ill, injured or out of breath.

This is like a series that has gone on much too long but I've watched every episode and just need to see how it ends. I'm long past giving a shit about the plot because all the good characters left years ago.

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It was going well until he disappeared again.

I mean no, he hasn't told us anything of significance, he simply said there will be something to tell in 2-4 months, but that's fine. I don't expect him to announce CD2 in a thread on here. But it would have been nice if he could have stuck around and answered a few more questions.

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TB isn't GNR's public relations person. The band hires a separate identity to handle all official PR. Fernando wasn't here on an official PR basis. As was noted numerous times by the mod team, his participation was based on an informal and personal level.

Where does Fernando insult the entire fanbase? I saw a few comments that were directed at individual members who initiated with personal attacks, but nothing of which you describe.

As I noted before, many people use the terms racist and discriminatory interchangeably. Considering Brazilian isn't a race, let's give Fernando the benefit of the doubt that he intended to say discriminatory versus the term racism.

GNR's management isn't the one calling the shots. Yes, we'd all like definitive answers as to what's going on with the band, but until either management or the band's PR gets approval from the boss man there's not much they can say. What do you expect them to do, break rank with the man who provides them with pay cheques? Do you do that in your own job?

I'm not sure why this is news to people like yourself Apollo after following Axl and GNR for so many years: GNR isn't like most other bands. It doesn't operate as most bands do and should. In fact, its actions have been fairly consistent for the past 20 years, regardless of who managed the band. Expecting anything more from what we've received for most of the band's history post 1994 is really on you. Nobody is forcing you to follow the band, nobody is making you care. Personally, while I'm a fan of the music and hope for the best, I stopped caring whether I hear new music today or years from now. Perhaps I've got more things in my life now than I did back in my early 20s when new GNR music mattered most in my life, but it's put things in perspective. There's absolutely no point in continually griping about stuff that you can't control.

Honestly, at this point, what difference is a three sentence statement going to make on the status of DJ or Ron? Now that it has been confirmed by all parties (save for Ron, for some strange reason), what's left to be said? Should GNR have cleared things up a year ago about Ron? Yeah, probably. But perhaps they were hoping he'd come back and didn't want to burn any bridges. But that kind of calculation isn't something that needs to be explained to fans. We're all (well, a vast majority of us) here for Axl anyway, so what difference does it make if Ron left for whatever reason?

You honestly don't think TB doesn't share some of the fans frustration? You really don't think they haven't spoken to Axl about his unwillingness to communicate to fans? Really? That's crazy. Even Fernando acknowledged last week that he gets frustrated with Axl. And I'm sure the feeling is mutual. The reality is that Axl is an insanely private person. He rarely spoke out when he felt others were disparaging his name and reputation, so why do you think he's going to suddenly open up because you personally feel he should? Undoubtedly it's costing him fan support and money, but I'd like to think Axl's aware of that. He, like all of us, has his own personal demons, but I would like to assume he's smart enough to acknowledge the consequences of radio silence as a basic PR policy.

Basically your argument is that Fernando should not have appeared at all unless he was willing to give you the news you were looking for. You're within your right to hold that opinion and express it here, but myself and others whole heartedly disagree. Again, you're asking management to either stay silent and cease all interaction with fans (regardless of how trivial) or disregard their client's request and publicize the news you want to here. Those are the only two options you seem content with. You're acting as though Fernando said nothing worthwhile at all. He commented on Ron and DJ leaving, he confirmed that there are plans and that he expects to share news in a few months, that Axl is doing well, and some more trivial stuff like where the best groupies can be found. Is it earth shattering GNR news? No. But was it still interesting to hear? For me personally, and I would assume many others, the answer is yes.

Lol. Cool, so now we know who your inside source is with the band.

So let's turn your argument around.

I said they are in over their heads as managing a band the stature of GnR.

You said they have no control of an album, a tour or in anything Axl does or how he runs the band. You said they have no control over GnR's public relations team. Who hires them if not the management team?

You give praise for Fernando finally commenting on BBF leaving. How long did that take? Months to get a statement

Ok.

Your turn. Tell me why I'm wrong in thinking they are in over their heads. List all the reasons they are a great management team.

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

PS you asked why should he be friendly to people that have disparages him in the past. Really? That one statement right there pretty much describes why he and his mother aren't a great management team for a multimillion dollar entertainment corporation. Scott Boras is the most successful sports agent of all time. Do you think he holds personal grudges against fans who call him mean? A professional management team should act like .....oh, I don't know.....professional? And not have their feelings hurt if some random dude on the internet says he isn't doing a good job.

PSS you say there is no point in griping about things I can't control. Ok. Does that same logic apply to you? Does that mean I won't see any posts from you in the next month complaint and griping about one side of a political party of a country you don't even live in? Why is it OK for you to do that?

So what is your suggestion then? None of us are allowed to complain about the state of GnR right now? Are you going to turn this into HTGTH because you have a friendship with band management now?

1) Whenever I have said "my sources," TB was not one of them.

2) I have no idea whether they're good at their jobs or not. I know that they're not the villains that they're often made out to be, but whether they're negotiating the best deals for GNR/Axl is beyond my purview. If your threshold for being good management is getting your artist to produce product, then obviously no, you do not think TB has been good at their jobs. But as I reiterated before, it's not management's job to provoke their clients to do anything they don't want to do. GNR/Axl has numerous managers and few have been able to get him to do much. By your definition GNR has had a lot of shitty managers. I don't see it that way. It's ultimately Axl's call what happens with GNR, not TB or any previous manager.

3) GNR's PR firm has been with the band long before TB became the band's management. I'm fairly certain it's Axl who makes those calls.

4) Nobody is praising anyone, let's drop the hyperbole. I was simply countering the point made here that Fernando said absolutely nothing. Should GNR have made it clear on Ron a year ago? Absolutely. But again, we do not know if orders were given by Axl to keep quiet on the matter or if there was a hope that Ron would change his mind.

5) I think you're wrong with your assertion that they're over their heads because no one here has any way to gauge their job performance (as I understand what the job entails). Again, if your sole baseline for proper GNR management is releasing product and being more communicative with fans, then yes, it's fair to question management's performance. However, with an artist like Axl, I'm not sure there's a management team or person alive who could prompt him to produce more and be more communicative. That's just who he is as an artist and as a person. I'm sure those facets also frustrate current and former management. To gauge whether TB has been good for Axl is to know how well they are negotiating on his behalf or whether Axl himself is pleased with their performance. Remember that they're ultimately responsible for the happiness and well-being of Axl, not us fans. If Axl is happy with their services, then yes, I would say they are doing their jobs.

6) No where did I ask why Fernando should be friendly to those who have previously insulted him. Please show me where I made that comment. Otherwise, please do not put words in my mouth.

7) I can't control what happens in U.S. politics, but I can confront ignorance whenever it's presented in the U.S. politics/elections thread. You see the difference right? When a recent poster argued that female cops are more likely shoot citizens than their male counterparts, I challenged it because it was wrong. I do not continually gripe about the Republican Party, I simply point out where they are factually wrong on many of the issues when others bring them up or wish to discuss them. Perhaps other members become more informed as a result, perhaps they do not. I speak not to all of America in the hopes that I can somehow change their way of thinking, but to the individual poster who asserts conservative ideology as the path to prosperity and happiness for all. It is not at all similar to GNR fans who fail to understand that coming here day in and day out complaining about the lack of GNR activity is going to have any positive effect on Axl and the likelihood of them getting new music. It's not. The cold hard reality is that Axl doesn't care enough about your opinion or mine to operate on the timeline of others. He works at his own pace for his own reasons. No one disagrees with your frustration and disappointment. My only point is that it should be directed at the proper target. How many producers did Axl have before he decided to produce the album largely by himself? The same could be said about management teams.

8) Everyone is allowed to complain and say whatever they want here, so long as we remember that Axl and members of management are people as well. Feel free to disparage the performances of band members and management, but let's keep things civil with respect to who these people are as people. I get the frustration and the disappointment; I'm a fan, I feel those things as well from time to time. But I don't get the anger, the bitterness, and the resentment. For us fans, it's just music at the end of the day. Everyone should have enough in their own lives that the presence or absence of such should not decide the kind of lives they lead. We're far enough down the road that most should know by now what GNR is and what it isn't. If you're no longer on board that's fine and more than understandable. If you still want to support the band but get frustrated along the way, that's okay as well. But some of the language used around here makes is seem as though Axl is personally responsible for the life's failings of others. Or even worse, that Axl is an evil person because he's denying you of new GNR material. Not saying that you yourself Apollo fall into this category, but let's agree that at times we lose perspective of what's truly important in life and that vilifying someone because of music is taking things a little too far.

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Basically GnR's management team has no clue what they are doing. And they have little regard for FANS of Axl Rose and GnR.

Other than that, he seemed like a pretty funny guy.

Not sure what you're predicating this on. How do they not know what they're doing? Because GNR hasn't released a new album? Is that really management's fault of the artist's?

For those who say they have little regard for fans of Axl and GNR, why? Should Fernando not have come here and said a few things? Do you expect him to break his boss's directions and dish on everything through improper channels?

Again, I get the frustration with GNR as a whole, but not sure why people think it's management's fault. Maybe some of it is, but if we look back at GNR's history over the past two decades, what's the common denominator?

Because a proper management team knows how to run the public relations side of a band the stature of guns n roses.

A proper management team doesn't insult the entire fanbase based on the few random forum posts on the internet.

They don't label a fanbase as racists. They don't label a fan base as doing nothing but complaints, comaints, complaints. They don't keep their fanbase completely in the dark about the status of the band. Do you not see how ridiculous the three hour meeting stuff is?

Lead guitar player quits. No comment

2nd guitar player quits. No comment.

Is there another tour? Is the follow up to the 7-year old album ever going to be released? Or has Axl decided to just retire?

Those are a couple basic things that EVERY other band in the world would communicate with their fans about.

Every other band in the world talks about their future albums. Bon Jovi just released a basically B-sides album. And while promoting it, JBJ is already taking about his next album.

A proper manager could have a simple conversation with the eccentric Axl and say they understand he views his music like its CIA military secret level type information. But how about letting them release a three sentence comment on BBF leaving. And on DJ leaving. And aomehing very simple every six months about the status of GnR.

"GnR is alive and well. Spending time relaxing and recharging the batteries. Still working on the CD follow up. Don't expect anything in the next six months. Hopefully the bus will get rolling in the summer of 2016. The General sounds killer. Thanks for your patience and enjoy your summer."

That took me thirty seconds to type. Gave no specific date. Covered all the bases. Didn't give any real specific top secret info. But gave the fans something to digest.

After X amount of time, Ron Bumblefoot Thal has decided to leave the GNR family to pursue his solo career. It was a great run and we can't wait to hear what music BBF creates in the future.

Damn, another one!!! After six amazing years, DJ has left GNR to concentrate on his other band Sixx AM. We wish him the best! Any of you shredders out there need a job?

There. Those took about thirty seconds to type. I don't see how Axl would see any of those three and get mad and fire them.

A good management team could show their client how just the tiniest amount of updating their fans would bring the band a mountain of good will.

I'm not talking a feature story in rolling stone. Not talking about weekly updates. I'm not talking about revealing top secret military level secrets about a rock n roll album. But a brief statement about band members leaving. And she status of the band. Come on now. How can you defend that.

*****

And yes.

If u come to the forum representing GnR - then give the fans some news.

If you come here as a dude who just happens to live off of Axl - then cool. Post in a few topics. Answer some weird fan questions about Axl's cat or what his (Fernando's) favorite song or touring spot is.

But to come here and do neither of those things? Other than maybe we will have an update in a few months. Why bother coming here at all?

TB isn't GNR's public relations person. The band hires a separate identity to handle all official PR. Fernando wasn't here on an official PR basis. As was noted numerous times by the mod team, his participation was based on an informal and personal level.

Where does Fernando insult the entire fanbase? I saw a few comments that were directed at individual members who initiated with personal attacks, but nothing of which you describe.

As I noted before, many people use the terms racist and discriminatory interchangeably. Considering Brazilian isn't a race, let's give Fernando the benefit of the doubt that he intended to say discriminatory versus the term racism.

GNR's management isn't the one calling the shots. Yes, we'd all like definitive answers as to what's going on with the band, but until either management or the band's PR gets approval from the boss man there's not much they can say. What do you expect them to do, break rank with the man who provides them with pay cheques? Do you do that in your own job?

I'm not sure why this is news to people like yourself Apollo after following Axl and GNR for so many years: GNR isn't like most other bands. It doesn't operate as most bands do and should. In fact, its actions have been fairly consistent for the past 20 years, regardless of who managed the band. Expecting anything more from what we've received for most of the band's history post 1994 is really on you. Nobody is forcing you to follow the band, nobody is making you care. Personally, while I'm a fan of the music and hope for the best, I stopped caring whether I hear new music today or years from now. Perhaps I've got more things in my life now than I did back in my early 20s when new GNR music mattered most in my life, but it's put things in perspective. There's absolutely no point in continually griping about stuff that you can't control.

Honestly, at this point, what difference is a three sentence statement going to make on the status of DJ or Ron? Now that it has been confirmed by all parties (save for Ron, for some strange reason), what's left to be said? Should GNR have cleared things up a year ago about Ron? Yeah, probably. But perhaps they were hoping he'd come back and didn't want to burn any bridges. But that kind of calculation isn't something that needs to be explained to fans. We're all (well, a vast majority of us) here for Axl anyway, so what difference does it make if Ron left for whatever reason?

You honestly don't think TB doesn't share some of the fans frustration? You really don't think they haven't spoken to Axl about his unwillingness to communicate to fans? Really? That's crazy. Even Fernando acknowledged last week that he gets frustrated with Axl. And I'm sure the feeling is mutual. The reality is that Axl is an insanely private person. He rarely spoke out when he felt others were disparaging his name and reputation, so why do you think he's going to suddenly open up because you personally feel he should? Undoubtedly it's costing him fan support and money, but I'd like to think Axl's aware of that. He, like all of us, has his own personal demons, but I would like to assume he's smart enough to acknowledge the consequences of radio silence as a basic PR policy.

Basically your argument is that Fernando should not have appeared at all unless he was willing to give you the news you were looking for. You're within your right to hold that opinion and express it here, but myself and others whole heartedly disagree. Again, you're asking management to either stay silent and cease all interaction with fans (regardless of how trivial) or disregard their client's request and publicize the news you want to here. Those are the only two options you seem content with. You're acting as though Fernando said nothing worthwhile at all. He commented on Ron and DJ leaving, he confirmed that there are plans and that he expects to share news in a few months, that Axl is doing well, and some more trivial stuff like where the best groupies can be found. Is it earth shattering GNR news? No. But was it still interesting to hear? For me personally, and I would assume many others, the answer is yes.

Just a few comments:

- You argue that Fernando wasn't here on "official PR basis". That may be true, but as a representative of a rock group's management visiting a fan forum dedicated to that group, he should know that his actions would reflect on both his organization and the group. He is a representative of Team Brazil 24/7 whether he wants it or not, and especially when visiting the fans of the band he supposedly manages. And as such we would expect him to act professional in his answers and conduct. It's the same with any other employee: you are expected to not act in a way that would harm your employer, even outside of business hours.

- We might know that Team Brazil is put in an awkward position by their client and that it is not their fault they can't divulge more information, but not every member here might understand this dynamic. Seeing a representative of management cherry pick questions, obviously refusing to answer some questions that were both polite and pertinent, and answering others in an unprofessional manner, they might be led to believe that the problem is Team Brazil, and not Axl Rose. Even if their client is a pain in the ass, they should still strive to make all their dealings that may potentially harm their client, as professional as possible. And yeah, their job might not be PR, but even managers who decide to make statements in public should know the rudimentaries of good public relations so as to not harm their client or themselves. And if they are unable to do that, then they should refrain from making public statements. I am sorry Fernando, but you can't expect to just show up at a GN'R fan forum to shoot shit, joke around, and avoid difficult questions and expect such an appearance to have no bearing on your job or your client.

I don't disagree with your first point, with exception to the fact that I don't think anything Fernando said in his recent chat harmed his employer. Should Fernando not respond in kind to those who insult him? Yeah, probably. But if you remember how he use to respond back in 2006/2007, last week's chat went significantly better. I acknowledge that we're talking about a relative proposition, hence I could very well be wrong on whether Fernando's most recent interaction was a net positive. But as it stands now, that's my belief and you're welcome to disagree with me.

As for your second point, again, I don't disagree. However, myself and other mods/admins made it known numerous times throughout the thread that Fernando was limited on what he can comment on. I even posted some of the comments he made over at HTGTH that were a little more specific on why he was not able to divulge more at the present time. Anyone reading the conversation was alerted to the dynamic numerous times.

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Basically GnR's management team has no clue what they are doing. And they have little regard for FANS of Axl Rose and GnR.

Other than that, he seemed like a pretty funny guy.

Weren't you babbling about how we shouldn't be worried after Dj left and how we should all rally behind Axl Rose? I remember a specific thread you made immediately after his departure dismissing all negativity and that we should be happy with the current state of the band.

Apollo, quit being such a cupcake.

Your act is tiresome.

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I don't disagree with your first point, with exception to the fact that I don't think anything Fernando said in his recent chat harmed his employer. Should Fernando not respond in kind to those who insult him? Yeah, probably. But if you remember how he use to respond back in 2006/2007, last week's chat went significantly better. I acknowledge that we're talking about a relative proposition, hence I could very well be wrong on whether Fernando's most recent interaction was a net positive. But as it stands now, that's my belief and you're welcome to disagree with me.

As for your second point, again, I don't disagree. However, myself and other mods/admins made it known numerous times throughout the thread that Fernando was limited on what he can comment on. I even posted some of the comments he made over at HTGTH that were a little more specific on why he was not able to divulge more at the present time. Anyone reading the conversation was alerted to the dynamic numerous times.

For the most part I am sympathetic to Team Brazil and I think they get a lot of undeserved criticism. I just wish that by now they'd stepped up and started to act more professional in their communication and interaction with the fan base. They were sort of thrown into this, I would hope they would make any effort to prove to everyone that they are right for the job. I can't really answer whether the net effect of Fernando's last visit was positive or negative, and to a fan base that expects next to zero from them this might have been a good thing -- how sad isn't that? -- but it is still far away from what I would expect from managers of such a large and iconic rock band, or even from trumped up personal assistants and friends who have had a few years to learn the ropes and ease into the roles of professional managers.

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Basically GnR's management team has no clue what they are doing. And they have little regard for FANS of Axl Rose and GnR.

Other than that, he seemed like a pretty funny guy.

Not sure what you're predicating this on. How do they not know what they're doing? Because GNR hasn't released a new album? Is that really management's fault of the artist's?

For those who say they have little regard for fans of Axl and GNR, why? Should Fernando not have come here and said a few things? Do you expect him to break his boss's directions and dish on everything through improper channels?

Again, I get the frustration with GNR as a whole, but not sure why people think it's management's fault. Maybe some of it is, but if we look back at GNR's history over the past two decades, what's the common denominator?

Because a proper management team knows how to run the public relations side of a band the stature of guns n roses.

A proper management team doesn't insult the entire fanbase based on the few random forum posts on the internet.

They don't label a fanbase as racists. They don't label a fan base as doing nothing but complaints, comaints, complaints. They don't keep their fanbase completely in the dark about the status of the band. Do you not see how ridiculous the three hour meeting stuff is?

Lead guitar player quits. No comment

2nd guitar player quits. No comment.

Is there another tour? Is the follow up to the 7-year old album ever going to be released? Or has Axl decided to just retire?

Those are a couple basic things that EVERY other band in the world would communicate with their fans about.

Every other band in the world talks about their future albums. Bon Jovi just released a basically B-sides album. And while promoting it, JBJ is already taking about his next album.

A proper manager could have a simple conversation with the eccentric Axl and say they understand he views his music like its CIA military secret level type information. But how about letting them release a three sentence comment on BBF leaving. And on DJ leaving. And aomehing very simple every six months about the status of GnR.

"GnR is alive and well. Spending time relaxing and recharging the batteries. Still working on the CD follow up. Don't expect anything in the next six months. Hopefully the bus will get rolling in the summer of 2016. The General sounds killer. Thanks for your patience and enjoy your summer."

That took me thirty seconds to type. Gave no specific date. Covered all the bases. Didn't give any real specific top secret info. But gave the fans something to digest.

After X amount of time, Ron Bumblefoot Thal has decided to leave the GNR family to pursue his solo career. It was a great run and we can't wait to hear what music BBF creates in the future.

Damn, another one!!! After six amazing years, DJ has left GNR to concentrate on his other band Sixx AM. We wish him the best! Any of you shredders out there need a job?

There. Those took about thirty seconds to type. I don't see how Axl would see any of those three and get mad and fire them.

A good management team could show their client how just the tiniest amount of updating their fans would bring the band a mountain of good will.

I'm not talking a feature story in rolling stone. Not talking about weekly updates. I'm not talking about revealing top secret military level secrets about a rock n roll album. But a brief statement about band members leaving. And she status of the band. Come on now. How can you defend that.

*****

And yes.

If u come to the forum representing GnR - then give the fans some news.

If you come here as a dude who just happens to live off of Axl - then cool. Post in a few topics. Answer some weird fan questions about Axl's cat or what his (Fernando's) favorite song or touring spot is.

But to come here and do neither of those things? Other than maybe we will have an update in a few months. Why bother coming here at all?

TB isn't GNR's public relations person. The band hires a separate identity to handle all official PR. Fernando wasn't here on an official PR basis. As was noted numerous times by the mod team, his participation was based on an informal and personal level.

Where does Fernando insult the entire fanbase? I saw a few comments that were directed at individual members who initiated with personal attacks, but nothing of which you describe.

As I noted before, many people use the terms racist and discriminatory interchangeably. Considering Brazilian isn't a race, let's give Fernando the benefit of the doubt that he intended to say discriminatory versus the term racism.

GNR's management isn't the one calling the shots. Yes, we'd all like definitive answers as to what's going on with the band, but until either management or the band's PR gets approval from the boss man there's not much they can say. What do you expect them to do, break rank with the man who provides them with pay cheques? Do you do that in your own job?

I'm not sure why this is news to people like yourself Apollo after following Axl and GNR for so many years: GNR isn't like most other bands. It doesn't operate as most bands do and should. In fact, its actions have been fairly consistent for the past 20 years, regardless of who managed the band. Expecting anything more from what we've received for most of the band's history post 1994 is really on you. Nobody is forcing you to follow the band, nobody is making you care. Personally, while I'm a fan of the music and hope for the best, I stopped caring whether I hear new music today or years from now. Perhaps I've got more things in my life now than I did back in my early 20s when new GNR music mattered most in my life, but it's put things in perspective. There's absolutely no point in continually griping about stuff that you can't control.

Honestly, at this point, what difference is a three sentence statement going to make on the status of DJ or Ron? Now that it has been confirmed by all parties (save for Ron, for some strange reason), what's left to be said? Should GNR have cleared things up a year ago about Ron? Yeah, probably. But perhaps they were hoping he'd come back and didn't want to burn any bridges. But that kind of calculation isn't something that needs to be explained to fans. We're all (well, a vast majority of us) here for Axl anyway, so what difference does it make if Ron left for whatever reason?

You honestly don't think TB doesn't share some of the fans frustration? You really don't think they haven't spoken to Axl about his unwillingness to communicate to fans? Really? That's crazy. Even Fernando acknowledged last week that he gets frustrated with Axl. And I'm sure the feeling is mutual. The reality is that Axl is an insanely private person. He rarely spoke out when he felt others were disparaging his name and reputation, so why do you think he's going to suddenly open up because you personally feel he should? Undoubtedly it's costing him fan support and money, but I'd like to think Axl's aware of that. He, like all of us, has his own personal demons, but I would like to assume he's smart enough to acknowledge the consequences of radio silence as a basic PR policy.

Basically your argument is that Fernando should not have appeared at all unless he was willing to give you the news you were looking for. You're within your right to hold that opinion and express it here, but myself and others whole heartedly disagree. Again, you're asking management to either stay silent and cease all interaction with fans (regardless of how trivial) or disregard their client's request and publicize the news you want to here. Those are the only two options you seem content with. You're acting as though Fernando said nothing worthwhile at all. He commented on Ron and DJ leaving, he confirmed that there are plans and that he expects to share news in a few months, that Axl is doing well, and some more trivial stuff like where the best groupies can be found. Is it earth shattering GNR news? No. But was it still interesting to hear? For me personally, and I would assume many others, the answer is yes.

Just a few comments:

- You argue that Fernando wasn't here on "official PR basis". That may be true, but as a representative of a rock group's management visiting a fan forum dedicated to that group, he should know that his actions would reflect on both his organization and the group. He is a representative of Team Brazil 24/7 whether he wants it or not, and especially when visiting the fans of the band he supposedly manages. And as such we would expect him to act professional in his answers and conduct. It's the same with any other employee: you are expected to not act in a way that would harm your employer, even outside of business hours.

- We might know that Team Brazil is put in an awkward position by their client and that it is not their fault they can't divulge more information, but not every member here might understand this dynamic. Seeing a representative of management cherry pick questions, obviously refusing to answer some questions that were both polite and pertinent, and answering others in an unprofessional manner, they might be led to believe that the problem is Team Brazil, and not Axl Rose. Even if their client is a pain in the ass, they should still strive to make all their dealings that may potentially harm their client, as professional as possible. And yeah, their job might not be PR, but even managers who decide to make statements in public should know the rudimentaries of good public relations so as to not harm their client or themselves. And if they are unable to do that, then they should refrain from making public statements. I am sorry Fernando, but you can't expect to just show up at a GN'R fan forum to shoot shit, joke around, and avoid difficult questions and expect such an appearance to have no bearing on your job or your client.

:thumbsup:rock3:thumbsup::hug::headbang::thumbsup:

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Basically GnR's management team has no clue what they are doing. And they have little regard for FANS of Axl Rose and GnR.

Other than that, he seemed like a pretty funny guy.

Weren't you babbling about how we shouldn't be worried after Dj left and how we should all rally behind Axl Rose? I remember a specific thread you made immediately after his departure dismissing all negativity and that we should be happy with the current state of the band.

Apollo, quit being such a cupcake.

Your act is tiresome.

Your post and my post have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Band management obviously isn't very effective. And DJ leaving means he had to decide which band to record and tour with. If GnR was going to be 100% inactive in 2016, then DJ wouldn't have had to quit GnR. He could have spent 2016 solely with Sixx AM. The fact he quit shows there was a reason he had to make a choice.

I'm not sure what part you are confused about.

*************

I don't think you actually know what the word t-roll means. You might want to look it up.

Feel free to complain and call me names all you want. Here and at other forums. Go for it. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy knowing I've had this much effect on you.

BUT if you want to make a more positive contribution to the forum, then you should try and leave the personal attacks to PM's (or cry about me on other forums) and try and stick to the actual topics.

Or, put me on ignore. If I cause you this much distress, I'm sure you can figure out how to use that ignore feature!!!

Edited by Apollo
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