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Dear Fermanager,: A Retrospective


magisme

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We have reiterated and underscored the point that criticism and disagreements of and with the band and its management are more than allowed, but personal insults and hostile language will not be permitted.

There have been a number of posts removed that were neither insulting or hostile.

It's been stated several times that in addition to the above we wanted to keep this particular thread on track as possible so if Fernando were to answer some good questions he can at least find them easily. The thread in civil war can be used for further discussion and thoughts. It's not an exact science I know but it's not a massive ask to keep one thread uncluttered.

Even legitimate questions have been dismissed because casual conversation. What's the point of the thread, at this point? Repetitive questions are considered clutter. Light-hearted jokes are considered clutter/insulting.

Everything that could be asked has been. The topic may as well be given to Fernando so he can open and close it when he wants to respond. He's stirring the pot of posters and causing people to lash back at you guys. This isn't constructive at all anymore. I'm not trying to backseat moderate. I just think the mods are being played....again.

I take your point. Perhaps we should lock it up again.

I don't personally know why Fernando joined the thread or what he hoped to gain from it but I do know that if we don't show a willingness to communicate civilly (and yes it goes both ways) then we have zero chance of being informed when there is something to say. At which point people will continue to moan that we are told nothing.

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Only supports my point: you piss off Axl, you're gone. TB knows him, they know what they can and can't say. This is why Merck is gone and TB manages the band.

I don't think Fernando came here to lie. It's just that he doesn't have the authority to share much information.

Edited by Rovim
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I don't personally know why Fernando joined the thread or what he hoped to gain from it but I do know that if we don't show a willingness to communicate civilly (and yes it goes both ways) then we have zero chance of being informed when there is something to say.

Normal bands call these "press releases". You know, things bands put out when they have something to say.

People on this forum who have been around since 2001 know that any speculation offered by the band or its managers usually leads to absolutely nothing.

The band's hand was forced by leakers to get the album released, and now they have no material of value worth releasing as a second album. So we are stuck in an endless cycle of "when will Axl decide to tour the same Greatest Hits show again?", which fans and band members alike are not at all enthusiastic about.

Fans and band members are abandoning the endless mess that is NewGNR. As they should.

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Being an enabler isn't a valid excuse. Especially when his main intent over the years is to t.roll certain fan forums Axl considers to be an enemy.

Doing and keeping your job is not a valid reason? only an idiot will jeopardize the kind of relationship Fernando developed with Axl. Keeping your boss happy is only logical if you know your boss can be easily angered by talking too much.

Axl is insecure and doesn't want the backlash when he says something and it doesn't happen. He knows he might be late to deliver if at all.

Edited by Rovim
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Being an enabler isn't a valid excuse. Especially when his main intent over the years is to t.roll certain fan forums Axl considers to be an enemy.

Doing and keeping your job is not a valid reason? only an idiot will jeopardize the kind of relationship Fernando developed with Axl. Keeping your boss happy is only logical if you know your boss can be easily angered by talking too much.

Fernando leaked the entire album online in 2001, and that led to the band being held hostage by hoarders. If he didn't get kicked out of the house for that, and was in fact promoted to the band's MANAGER years later, that just shows you how illogical Axl Rose is when making decisions. Fernando could burn Axl's house down and Axl would still love him.

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You really think there's a chance he is going to fire Beta's son? Over some pretty typical questions?

This is the same guy most likely behind the leaks.

Fernando has no reason to do that. I think one only needs to look at Axl's track record with people who went against him in some way (as he sees it) to get the picture.

Marc was one of his best friends. Managers came and went. He can fire Fernando and still be his fake big brother.

Besides, Fernando seems to be close to Axl, so he'll probably wouldn't want to piss him off regardless of his job.

Edited by Rovim
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I don't personally know why Fernando joined the thread or what he hoped to gain from it but I do know that if we don't show a willingness to communicate civilly (and yes it goes both ways) then we have zero chance of being informed when there is something to say.

Normal bands call these "press releases". You know, things bands put out when they have something to say.

People on this forum who have been around since 2001 know that any speculation offered by the band or its managers usually leads to absolutely nothing.

The band's hand was forced by leakers to get the album released, and now they have no material of value worth releasing as a second album. So we are stuck in an endless cycle of "when will Axl decide to tour the same Greatest Hits show again?", which fans and band members alike are not at all enthusiastic about.

Fans and band members are abandoning the endless mess that is NewGNR. As they should.

It might lead to nothing given past experience but if we can't be prepared to play nice ourselves then the concept of hateful, undeserving fans will remain as a reason to explain why we are kept in the dark. Remove that reason then the legitimate complaints the fan base have hold more weight and perhaps criticism can be viewed with more justification.

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You really think there's a chance he is going to fire Beta's son? Over some pretty typical questions?

This is the same guy most likely behind the leaks.

Fernando has no reason to do that. I think one only needs to look at Axl's track record with people who went against him in some way (as he sees it)

Marc was one of his best friends. Managers came and went. He can fire Fernando and still be his fake big brother.

Look at the post above yours.

What do you mean he has no reason to do that?

Merck wasn't the son of his closest relationship figure. Never mix family/friends with business. Axl's already too late for that lesson and it's rather naive to think that TB has no power at all.

If Merck had leaked the album or booked a bowling alley gig he would have been shown the door.

Edited by Rustycage
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We don't even know how Fernando would have reacted to magisme's comment. Maybe Fernando could handle it like the man he is. GNR said fans must get on board or fuck off, it's not like they're not use to harsh language.

Using the F word doesn't turn a post into a hateful comment. Don't want to play moderator here. Like I said, you guys should work on convincing mags to return. I can see one person taking advantage from this small MyGNR implosion, it's that guy who wanted this forum dead. Make amends with a great poster like mags, do your mod job as you wish... just don't start losing core members. This forum is more about the community itself than the dead band that GNR is, take care of your valueable posters. Fernando has been acting politely most of the time but he's part of the band who told the fans to fuck off themselves. Think about it. Sorry for the off-topic.

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You really think there's a chance he is going to fire Beta's son? Over some pretty typical questions?

This is the same guy most likely behind the leaks.

Fernando has no reason to do that. I think one only needs to look at Axl's track record with people who went against him in some way (as he sees it)

Marc was one of his best friends. Managers came and went. He can fire Fernando and still be his fake big brother.

Look at the post above yours.

What do you mean he has no reason to do that?

Merck wasn't the son of his closest relationship figure. Never mix family/friends with business. Axl's already too late for that lesson and it's rather naive to think that TB has no power at all.

If Merck had leaked the album or booked a bowling alley gig he would have been shown the door.

Your conspiracy theory about Fernando leaking shit is unlikely at best imo.

It's naive to think Axl can be controlled by anyone. He has worked very hard to make sure he is the boss. And he's not stupid. I believe he has total control and TB sometimes acts to shield him from what and who they think might piss him off.

You have no proof for what you're suggesting and those are pretty wild claims. Nothing we've seen has indicated Axl is not the only one who calls the shots. TB works for him. He trusts them, and in return they get to live the good life. They've got it made, why would they risk that? makes no sense to me. :shrugs:

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It might lead to nothing given past experience but if we can't be prepared to play nice ourselves then the concept of hateful, undeserving fans will remain as a reason to explain why we are kept in the dark. Remove that reason then the legitimate complaints the fan base have hold more weight and perhaps criticism can be viewed with more justification.

You are buying into some weird logic that the fans are the problem. Fans react to the actions of the band. The band makes no action, the fans either get mad or leave.

If I paid a hooker $100.00, spent a lot of time thinking about her, and she called me and said "maybe I'll come and sex you some day", would I be justified spending my time and money on her? Or do I move onto another hooker who doesn't leave me unsatisfied?

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K

Fernando = any other GNR manager.

In dreamland

Again... Fernando seems to be close to Axl, you know... emotions. They're like very good friends yeah? why would he even want to risk that, when we know he has no problem with Axl's demands since he agreed working for him?

Let's say that you're right and there is zero risk he'll get fired. Still, a good employee wants to do his job, and a good friend wants to keep their friends happy or at least not to piss them off if they can.

So like I've said: there is no reason for him to do anything but keeping Axl, his boss and friend, happy.

Edited by Rovim
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It might lead to nothing given past experience but if we can't be prepared to play nice ourselves then the concept of hateful, undeserving fans will remain as a reason to explain why we are kept in the dark. Remove that reason then the legitimate complaints the fan base have hold more weight and perhaps criticism can be viewed with more justification.

You are buying into some weird logic that the fans are the problem. Fans react to the actions of the band. The band makes no action, the fans either get mad or leave.

If I paid a hooker $100.00, spent a lot of time thinking about her, and she called me and said "maybe I'll come and sex you some day", would I be justified spending my time and money on her? Or do I move onto another hooker who doesn't leave me unsatisfied?

I don't think the fans are the problem, my point was if we have made reasonable effort on our part then it removes that excuse from the equation.

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You really think there's a chance he is going to fire Beta's son? Over some pretty typical questions?

This is the same guy most likely behind the leaks.

Fernando has no reason to do that. I think one only needs to look at Axl's track record with people who went against him in some way (as he sees it)

Marc was one of his best friends. Managers came and went. He can fire Fernando and still be his fake big brother.

Look at the post above yours.

What do you mean he has no reason to do that?

Merck wasn't the son of his closest relationship figure. Never mix family/friends with business. Axl's already too late for that lesson and it's rather naive to think that TB has no power at all.

If Merck had leaked the album or booked a bowling alley gig he would have been shown the door.

Your conspiracy theory about Fernando leaking shit is unlikely at best imo.

You don't trust Fernando's own words?

From a 2001 interview with Fernando:

http://www.gunsnfnroses.com/index.php?/topic/1915-old-fernando-interview/

The CD will probably have 16 or 17 songs, and all the songs are very strong. I'm not saying this because I work for him or because I'm his best friend. My friends, for example, when they listen to any of the songs they say it's very beatiful and very good.Catcher in the Rye, This I love, That's Called The Blues, Chinese Democracy, they are all beautiful.
He sent MP3's of the tracks to people online, thinking the album would be released in 2001. Oops.
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Any manager worth his/her salt will push for what is best for the brand... A reunion. Axl knows it. It is why he trusted and continues to trust TB. They will never go that route. The current circumstances, Axl's history with managers and the close relationship allow TB a LOT more leeway in how they learn to manage the band.

Edited by Rustycage
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You really think there's a chance he is going to fire Beta's son? Over some pretty typical questions?

This is the same guy most likely behind the leaks.

Fernando has no reason to do that. I think one only needs to look at Axl's track record with people who went against him in some way (as he sees it)

Marc was one of his best friends. Managers came and went. He can fire Fernando and still be his fake big brother.

Look at the post above yours.

What do you mean he has no reason to do that?

Merck wasn't the son of his closest relationship figure. Never mix family/friends with business. Axl's already too late for that lesson and it's rather naive to think that TB has no power at all.

If Merck had leaked the album or booked a bowling alley gig he would have been shown the door.

Your conspiracy theory about Fernando leaking shit is unlikely at best imo.

You don't trust Fernando's own words?

From a 2001 interview with Fernando:

http://www.gunsnfnroses.com/index.php?/topic/1915-old-fernando-interview/

The CD will probably have 16 or 17 songs, and all the songs are very strong. I'm not saying this because I work for him or because I'm his best friend. My friends, for example, when they listen to any of the songs they say it's very beatiful and very good.Catcher in the Rye, This I love, That's Called The Blues, Chinese Democracy, they are all beautiful.
He sent MP3's of the tracks to people online, thinking the album would be released in 2001. Oops.

Sounds like there was no ill will there? how old was he back then? like 10 years old?

I think he would never knowingly do something to hurt the band or go against Axl's wishes.

Any manager worth his/her salt will push for what is best for the brand... A reunion. Axl knows it. It is why he trusted and continues to trust TB. They will never go that route. The current circumstances, Axl's history with managers and the close relationship allow TB a LOT more leeway in how they learn to manage the band.

Any employee that wants to keep their job will do what the boss wants them to do when they're on the clock and getting paid to do said job.

If Axl wanted a reunion, it would have happened. TB will support whatever Axl chooses to do. I think you're ignoring the fact a manager can't force the artist to do something they don't want to do. Especially not someone like Axl.

Edited by Rovim
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It might lead to nothing given past experience but if we can't be prepared to play nice ourselves then the concept of hateful, undeserving fans will remain as a reason to explain why we are kept in the dark. Remove that reason then the legitimate complaints the fan base have hold more weight and perhaps criticism can be viewed with more justification.

You are buying into some weird logic that the fans are the problem. Fans react to the actions of the band. The band makes no action, the fans either get mad or leave.

If I paid a hooker $100.00, spent a lot of time thinking about her, and she called me and said "maybe I'll come and sex you some day", would I be justified spending my time and money on her? Or do I move onto another hooker who doesn't leave me unsatisfied?

I don't think the fans are the problem, my point was if we have made reasonable effort on our part then it removes that excuse from the equation.

But this isn't the first time. The board banned many users before the Axl chats. Followed by years of nothing. The board got rid of a supposed "bad seed" admin in 2011 at the band's apparent request. Followed by years of nothing. The prior administration tried to extend their hand, as well. Followed by "complaints, complaints, complaints" and passive-agressive attacks on hem in public. This has been tried and tested.

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I think you're straying further away from the point.

Axl chooses TB because he KNOWS they won't go the route of a reunion. It would do them no good as the evil one would most likely NOT reunite with them running the show. Beta hates the "evil one" with a passion. They echo Axl's biggest sentiment regarding GNR's past. Plus, any potential manager would be very hesitant in taking on this incarnation of "gnr." If you cannot grasp that they have much more leeway than any other potential manager, there's nothing else to discuss on it. To deny that is to deny the most obvious about their current relationship.

Edited by Rustycage
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It might lead to nothing given past experience but if we can't be prepared to play nice ourselves then the concept of hateful, undeserving fans will remain as a reason to explain why we are kept in the dark. Remove that reason then the legitimate complaints the fan base have hold more weight and perhaps criticism can be viewed with more justification.

You are buying into some weird logic that the fans are the problem. Fans react to the actions of the band. The band makes no action, the fans either get mad or leave.

If I paid a hooker $100.00, spent a lot of time thinking about her, and she called me and said "maybe I'll come and sex you some day", would I be justified spending my time and money on her? Or do I move onto another hooker who doesn't leave me unsatisfied?

I don't think the fans are the problem, my point was if we have made reasonable effort on our part then it removes that excuse from the equation.

But this isn't the first time. The board banned many users before the Axl chats. Followed by years of nothing. The board got rid of a supposed "bad seed" admin in 2011 at the band's apparent request. Followed by years of nothing. The prior administration tried to extend their hand, as well. Followed by "complaints, complaints, complaints" and passive-agressive attacks on hem in public. This has been tried and tested.

Well maybe like a little kid finding it's way in the world each administration has to find stuff out for itself! It's better to try and fail than never try at all.

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I think you're straying further away from the point.

Axl chooses TB because he KNOWS they won't go the route of a reunion. It would do them no good as the evil one would most likely NOT reunite with them running the show. Beta hates the "evil one" with a passion. They echo Axl's biggest sentiment regarding GNR's past. Plus, any potential manager would be very hesitant in taking on this incarnation of "gnr." If you cannot grasp that they have much more leeway than any other potential manager, there's nothing else to discuss on it. To deny that is to deny the most obvious about their current relationship.

Axl considers them to be his family, so of course there could potentially be more leeway, but I mean... if Axl is not happy as an artist, why would he keep them as managers of his precious Guns N' Roses? it doesn't seem likely.

I think he's satisfied with their work. And yeah, their position on a reunion is the same it seems. I think they believe everything Axl told them about Slash and that Beta really does hate Slash.

Still... the point I'm trying to make here is that even TB, with their "family" ties to Axl can't force him to do anything, and can only work inside the boundaries of what Axl wants them to do.

Axl still calls all the shots, so TB is not really to blame here. Fernando is just doing his job.

Edited by Rovim
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