Can we comprehend Axl a little better…

[Ender04]

When we type him as an INTP?

So, I have been working on this for a while. I curious to know what you think of it, whether it speaks to you or you think its bullocks It’s quite a long text, but if you want to invest in it, here it is:

I’m a big fan of the MBTI, which is a system to type people’s personalities, or better said, it defines the way a person’s mental processes work. It’s largely based on the theories of psychologist Carl Jung in the 1920”. It’s criticized for having no scientific foundation, and still it has been greatly popular for decades already. I use MBTI because in my experience it’s very accurate and useful in understanding myself and others. And sometimes I like to try to type someone famous like Axl. Just trying to get why someone makes the choices he/she makes. And Axl has made some interesting choices.

First I start by saying that the following is all speculation. I have no way of verifying my analyses as I don’t personally know Axl Rose.

I must explain a bit about MBTI before I go on about Axl’s type. If you want to read more, an abbreviate version you can find here: http://www.dec.co.th/mbti_explanation.htm More information is all over de web though.

So, MBTI defines the way a person’s mind works scaling him in four different classes:

What you focus your attention on, or, where do you get your energy from? (this is a nerve system-setting)

è Introversion (I), You’ re concentrating on your inner world, you need reflection.

è Extraversion (E), You’ re concentrating on the outer world, you need much stimulation.

How do you prefer to take in and process information?

è Sensing (S), You’re focused on details and what you can actually physically sense , what’s real and in the present.

è Intuition (N), You’re focused on possibilities, on relations between things and patterns. You are focused more on the future, on what can be.

How do you make decisions?

è Thinking (T), You make decisions based on logic. You’re objective. You like rational analyses

è Feeling (F), You make decisions based on how they will impact on you and other people. You seek harmony.

How do you deal with the outside world?

è Judging (J), You feel the need to order your world. You live a structured life.

è Perceiving (P), You like to keep possibilities open. You improvise your way through life.

I’m not going to explain all of these elaborately here. If you want to see if you agree on my typing of Axl then go for further explanation to above mentioned link.

Some of the clues I based my typing of Axl on:

Axl likes to withdraw from the world (he’s known for being recluse) ->Introversion

Axl likes to express himself in writing (lyrics, posts and public letters) ->Introversion

Axl seems to not much care what his impact is on others -> Thinking

Axl seems to not much care what others think of him -> Thinking

Axl seems to seek truth for himself-> Thinking

Axl seems focused on change and doesn’t want to go back to the past-> Intuition

Axl seems has a good imagination and is verbally creative -> Intuition

Axl is not punctual -> Perceiving

Axl fails to (plan his work and) follow through on his plans -> Perceiving

That’s why INTP.

So, how does that help us understand Axl’s actions better?

I’ll be going a little more specific into the INTP now, for that’s what I think Axl is. The INTP uses the following mind processes in this particular order:

1. Introverted Thinking
2. Extraverted Intuition
3. Introverted Sensing
4. Extraverted Feeling

There are another 4 different functions, but Axl (being an INTP) makes less use of those then the above. Note that the order of the functions is important, as it determines the difference in types.

This is what the above means for Axl:

Introverted Thinking

Introverted Thinking: Axl seeks internal consistency and logic of ideas. He uses deep, implicit and nuances logic to develop and refine methods, strategies or concepts and for making decisions. He trusts his internal framework.

This is Axl’s dominant function. It’s easiest to use for him and therefor used the most. Because it is an introverted function people don’t see much of it. But it is doing all the heavy lifting for him. It is a rational, decision-making function inside his head. A very important part of Axl’s life is in fact inside his head. His focus in inward, not outward to the world, and his thoughts are based on rational thought (opposed to feeling a lot of emotions).

Extraverted Intuition

Extraverted Intuition: Axl sees possibilities in the external world. Extraverted Intuition scans the world for relationships or patterns within a pool of ideas, facts, or experiences. The INTP makes (unconscious) associations, searches for meaning or possibilities in the data he gathers and trusts his findings.

This function supports Axl’s first function. It’s an information-gathering and -processing function. It feeds his Introverted Thinking.

Also it is an extraverted function and therefor visible for the external world. For example, Axl will gather a lot of different observations from different experiences, which he will mentally connect to see a pattern and put it, for instance, in one song (like he did with Better). Another example is the Estranged-video. To most this video weirdly combines a lot of different concepts/associations, but the extraverted Intuitive will see a connection between them all.

Axl being an Intuitive opposed to being a Sensor means that he is naturally more focused on what can be then on what is, more focused on the future then the present, and more focused on ideas and relations between things then on the sensory world of what is (taste, smell, sight et cetera).

Introverted Sensing

Introverted Sensing: Is about comparing present facts and experiences to past experience. People that use this function trust the past. They store sensory data for future use.

Well, Axl is not very good at this for this is only his third function. People’s 3th function is mostly weak and troublesome. It does not develop until midlife because it is not used much and it will never become a strong quality. So really, this is a weak point of Axl.

It means he forgets to use his memory to prevent mistakes he made before (like promising an album release every fucking year!). And he tends not to call on experience much but prefers to try things he did before in a new way. Maybe this is one of the reasons why he is not at all interested in going back to the old GnR lineup?

The 3th function is also the relief-function. The INTP can find relief in doing spare time, low pressure, sensory activities, like listening to music, art, petting animals et cetera.

Extraverted Feeling

Extraverted Feeling: Seeking harmony with and between people in the outside world. Interpersonal and cultural values are important.

As the functions come in order of use, the forth function is the least developed one for the INTP. Axl is non-traditional and is also not focused on harmony and other people’s needs. It’s not to say he doesn’t care about the wellbeing of his loved ones. It’s just that he is not tuned in well to other people’s feelings, nor his own. He needs to be shown clearly what you need from him.

Being an extraverted function the outside world is witness of the poor performance. The INTP has no natural focus on the needs, wants and feelings of others. When he is in fact interested to know them (for instance to see is someone is feeling friendly about him) he will find he lackes the skill to actually read people. Making the wrong judgment on people regularly, results in the INTP not trusting his own judgements in these matters at all. But most of the time, the INTP cares much less then other types what goes on with other people, or doesn’t at all.

This fourth function is the function that a person is very aware of being weak at. It’s the one which is a regular pitfall and an ongoing struggle. That’s why it is often a personal aspiration to become better at it.

I think this description of Axl’s mental processes help us understand a lot about Axl. For example, it explains how:

Axl doesn’t care (about what fans want/need): INTP’s don’t give a rat’s ass if they’re socially acceptable. Extraverted feeling being their forth function they don’t feel much emotionally effected by the needs, wants and opinions of others/the public. So Axl doesn’t become angry fast when criticized.

Axl rants: Since Axl so out of touch with what people think and feel, and since he is not a strong feeler himself (he tends to rationalize instead of paying attention to what he feels), Axl will be overwhelmed when things happen that are unforeseen by him and that are also important and painful enough to trigger a negative emotion. Being an INTP he hasn’t learnt to manage those feelings well. So, if a strong emotion is triggered, it will be expressed without much restraint. Which results in volcanic eruption

Axl is a recluse: Being an Introvert Axl gets his energy from his inner world, his thoughts and ideas. Introverts love to withdraw. They actually need it to regain energy. INTP’s are actually known for often being recluses.

Axl is convinced of his own reality: Aren’t we all? Axl has voiced some of his convictions, for instance on this forum about the (events surrounding the) ownership of the Guns n’ Roses name.

INTP’s inner world will feel so much more real to them then the messy, imprecise outside world. With introverted thinking and extraverted Intuition INTP’s build up their own view of the world. INTP’s are highly intelligent, gather lots of information, use their rational and objective Thinking to carefully weigh all information. Since they put A LOT of thought in developing their views on things it has often been proven to them their ideas were spot on. Therefor INTP’s generally trusts his views/beliefs without hesitation.

Axl is a procrastinator and perfectionist: The endless tinkering…(sigh). I believe that it is something we believe he does. It fits the INTP description perfectly. INTP’s are known for being perfectionists. An INTP knows he always can improve on his own work, if more information/recourses is gathered and more experimenting has taken place (using extraverted Intuition). So that’s the tinkering and also the procrastination. As we all know perfectionism and procrastination go hand-in-hand.

Axl doesn’t plan his action very well: I’m just glad he stopped announcing a new album. His lack of introverted Sensing (using memory to make decisions) led to him announcing CD year after year. It seems he finally learnt from this mistake (and now we give him shit for not announcing ) As a Perceiver he’s probably pretty content now that he can keep his options open.

Axl isn’t punctual: He’s often late, doesn’t want to live by the clock (It surprises me he often wears a watch, but he could be wearing it as being a jewelry). Being a Perceiver he will never like set plans and schedules and he will be forgetful about them. He will prefer to keep his possibilities open as long as possible.

Axl holds grudges: We think he does. It might be that most sore has in fact worn off by now and Axl is simply not interested in renewing old bonds. Obviously some people have triggered intense emotions and trust is gone. Introverted Sensing being a underdeveloped function an INTP tends to forget details of the past and ignore the past while making new decisions. A chance to start fresh… But when pain has been very intense an INTP might not be able to do this. Underdeveloped Feeling might be in the way of emotional healing.

Axl doesn’t want to go back to oldGuns: The fact he doesn’t want to do a reunion probably comes from his preference to find new experiences (besides his grudge towards Slash). It’s not likely for a extraverted Intuitive to be focused on the past and retry old things that have already proven to not work for them. It’s his extraverted Intuition that focusses him on things that can be, rather than on things that already has been. Also his Perceiving strengthens his preference for change and growth.

I will put an end to this here J. If you don’t agree on my analyses, pull it to shreds. I don’t mind, it’s not like I make a living out of this. I’m interested though in why you think I might be wrong. I’m also interested to know whether you think typing Axl as an INTP helps for understanding where Axl’s behavior is coming from.

If you want to go type yourself, there is free tests on the internet that IMO are good enough. Elaborate descriptions of each of the 16 types can be found here:

http://www.16personalities.com/intp-personality

Also note that NOT one type is better than the other, but there is differences in how common a type is. Some types are more common than others. Estimates are about 3,3% of US-population is INTP.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Ender04

[Słash]

[Ender04]

[Słash]

Are you smoking the same thing as Nate?

[Ender04]

hmmm, no I'm naturally this high...

[Jakey Styley]

I think so.

[Len Cnut]

Personally, Dr Lens professional assessment is that he might suffering from an acute case of C.U.N.T, symptoms include dramatic weight gain, chronic indolence and discolouration/loss of hair.

[Ender04]

you think he's a classic case?

[sanity_lost]

The good ol' Myers-Brigg personality test... I think every time I took that (had to do it multiple times due to various classes) I got a different result. I am pretty sure it wasn't because my personality kept changing. I also had to do the Keirsey Temperament test at least once for a class (I remember this one because it was much more flattering, but I wasn't so sure I agreed with the description). Then, of course, there are the many bastardized versions of those I've seen due to "professional development" (my favorite was finding out what color I was and the fake tarot card that went with it- who wouldn't want their personality represented by a little pointy hatted person on brightly colored paper?).

That aside.... it looks like you put a lot of work into this and I appreciate it. I find psychology fascinating and will find it interesting if a good discussion comes out of this.

[Ender04]

I took an official MBTI test once, and some different free ones on the internet in the course of the last 15 years. My results were always consistent. I never took Keirsey. But I also did a colortest, that didn´t work for me eihter.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Ender04

[sanity_lost]

I suppose I am pretty evenly balanced in most areas so it only takes choosing a different response in places where I wavered before to change my type. Or I have a personality disorder.

It took me longer than I would like to admit to figuring out what that color test i did was- True Colors. I am not finding it free anywhere online, but didn't really look all that hard either. I did learn that apparently some think you can determine someone's personality by the color they like.

I think I am now curious how personality types correspond to fan's reactions to GNR history and present silence.

[dalsh327]

Next tour, Axl will be doing Rorshach tests

[Ender04]

I suppose I am pretty evenly balanced in most areas so it only takes choosing a different response in places where I wavered before to change my type. Or I have a personality disorder.

I myself score very close in the middle of J and P. So I´m pretty flexible there. Still, I´m sure to be a J. Since it comes relatively easy I often choose to behave P when that's opportune. Still I strongly prefer a organized lifestyle.

You´ll only be able to really change your type if you manage to change your natural tendency to a certain type of behavior. Otherwise, you´ll just be a type X forcing yourself to act like type Y (that sounds exhausting!). One could be forced to change preferred behavior pretty consequently by a demanding environment (for example to act extraverted whilst being an introvert), like in a disfunctional work- or family situation. But in these cases people go back to their naturally preferred behavior as soon as they get to a different context.

I think I am now curious how personality types correspond to fan's reactions to GNR history and present silence.

Sorry to say I can’t satisfy your curiosity about fan-frustration as frustration lives in all of us. But I’m pretty sure there is a difference per type of what things frustrates us most.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Ender04

[mizzystar]

This is very interesting to read.

[cooker]

Remember when we used to discuss music and concerts?

[BetterDay7]

I think you put forward an interesting explanation, OP, but for me it's way too simplistic. Axl seems like a very complex person. I'm not sure he really fits into a type as such!

[Ender04]

I think you put forward an interesting explanation, OP, but for me it's way too simplistic. Axl seems like a very complex person. I'm not sure he really fits into a type as such!

I do agree with you: People are complex and these typology-systems can never capture a person as a whole. Everybody has got their own uniqueness. Still I think the INTP discription fits Axl generally well. And so to me it's usefull. Anyway, it was fun figuring out.

My story was a bit one-sited towards all the complaints that can be found here. I could have choosen a different approach.

[BetterDay7]

I think you put forward an interesting explanation, OP, but for me it's way too simplistic. Axl seems like a very complex person. I'm not sure he really fits into a type as such!

I do agree with you: People are complex and these typology-systems can never capture a person as a whole. Everybody has got their own uniqueness. Still I think the INTP discription fits Axl generally well. And so to me it's usefull. Anyway, it was fun figuring out.

My story was a bit one-sited towards all the complaints that can be found here. I could have choosen a different approach.

I don't think you have done anything wrong!

Just feel the explanation too simplistic. We don't really know that much about Axl's formative years, apart from what he has divulged... There may be much more. I just wary of pigeon-holing him.

Am very interested in what makes people tick.

Edited October 25, 2015 by BetterDay7

[skybluzcu]

Your descriptive view strongly resembles incarceration syndrome. Its not that I dont agree with profiling. I am a single woman and I can assure you I firmly believe in profiling however with you not knowing him I cant see where I have any voice to agree or disagree with your findings as I do know him my self. Axl that the world sees is not the same as William Rose that is in his heart and soul. He is one man on stage and in the public eye. He is another man when he is free in his own world without the constant view of people he has never met.

It is easy to define anyone in anyway we want but does not mean that it is realistic to truth. People who are reclusive are that way for the most because it is safer in the world we hide in rather than the open world which can be a very cold unfeeling place. I see him as strong man who found fame as a kid and had no freaking idea how to handle it combined with the fucked up shit that happened to him and his siblings as a kid. Combine all that shit and try to find some kind of normalcy in life and all i can say is good luck. Shit like that will drop the strongest person right down on all fours.

He seems happy inside now no more internal war and from all i can see he is trying to show the world that he has matured, changed and looked the demons right in the eye with squared shoulders and taken back control of his life. all i can say about that is CONGRATS thats some hard shit to rise above.

[tomfriend]

Aside from little jaunts to South America or Vegas to top up his bank account, Axl, the last rockstar, the great white hope turned great white whale has spent the last 5 years essentially sitting on his arse.

Wow. Please can we discuss the innerworkings of the mind of this fascinating individual? I long to understaaaand. Oh unknowable universe!

[Ender04]

Your descriptive view strongly resembles incarceration syndrome. Its not that I dont agree with profiling. I am a single woman and I can assure you I firmly believe in profiling however with you not knowing him I cant see where I have any voice to agree or disagree with your findings as I do know him my self. Axl that the world sees is not the same as William Rose that is in his heart and soul. He is one man on stage and in the public eye. He is another man when he is free in his own world without the constant view of people he has never met.

It is easy to define anyone in anyway we want but does not mean that it is realistic to truth. People who are reclusive are that way for the most because it is safer in the world we hide in rather than the open world which can be a very cold unfeeling place. I see him as strong man who found fame as a kid and had no freaking idea how to handle it combined with the fucked up shit that happened to him and his siblings as a kid. Combine all that shit and try to find some kind of normalcy in life and all i can say is good luck. Shit like that will drop the strongest person right down on all fours.

He seems happy inside now no more internal war and from all i can see he is trying to show the world that he has matured, changed and looked the demons right in the eye with squared shoulders and taken back control of his life. all i can say about that is CONGRATS thats some hard shit to rise above.

I have been thinking about your post, while busy doing other things. I don't grasp all you are saying 100%, due to the fact English is not my native language. (It´s pretty good, but sometimes just not good enough).

It seems you feel I pigeonholed Axl with my post and that I shouldn't have done that.

I'm very aware that I don't know him, and that therefor my view on him is very limited. I'm guessing on basis of what I see in the media, trying to peel the obvious bullshit off. I know there is a difference between what we see in public and the man he is in private. So my 'analyses' can be completely wrong. I'm not saying I know the truth.

What I seek was a way the find an explanation for the choices he made so far. To understand. Just because I'm interested and because I thought it was fun doing.

There is so much complaining about the choices he made and the things he has done/not done. I thought it was nice to look at those things and try to see them in a different light. I think the INTP is beautiful

Anyway, thanks for reading and replying

[skybluzcu]

Your descriptive view strongly resembles incarceration syndrome. Its not that I dont agree with profiling. I am a single woman and I can assure you I firmly believe in profiling however with you not knowing him I cant see where I have any voice to agree or disagree with your findings as I do know him my self. Axl that the world sees is not the same as William Rose that is in his heart and soul. He is one man on stage and in the public eye. He is another man when he is free in his own world without the constant view of people he has never met.

It is easy to define anyone in anyway we want but does not mean that it is realistic to truth. People who are reclusive are that way for the most because it is safer in the world we hide in rather than the open world which can be a very cold unfeeling place. I see him as strong man who found fame as a kid and had no freaking idea how to handle it combined with the fucked up shit that happened to him and his siblings as a kid. Combine all that shit and try to find some kind of normalcy in life and all i can say is good luck. Shit like that will drop the strongest person right down on all fours.

He seems happy inside now no more internal war and from all i can see he is trying to show the world that he has matured, changed and looked the demons right in the eye with squared shoulders and taken back control of his life. all i can say about that is CONGRATS thats some hard shit to rise above.

I have been thinking about your post, while busy doing other things. I don't grasp all you are saying 100%, due to the fact English is not my native language. (It´s pretty good, but sometimes just not good enough).

It seems you feel I pigeonholed Axl with my post and that I shouldn't have done that.

I'm very aware that I don't know him, and that therefor my view on him is very limited. I'm guessing on basis of what I see in the media, trying to peel the obvious bullshit off. I know there is a difference between what we see in public and the man he is in private. So my 'analyses' can be completely wrong. I'm not saying I know the truth.

What I seek was a way the find an explanation for the choices he made so far. To understand. Just because I'm interested and because I thought it was fun doing.

There is so much complaining about the choices he made and the things he has done/not done. I thought it was nice to look at those things and try to see them in a different light. I think the INTP is beautiful

Anyway, thanks for reading and replying

I thought the read was very interesting. I actually am the type person that deals only in black and white grey areas do not exist in my world. In short I deal only with the facts in life. My reason for posting was because i believe that Axl Rose on stage on tour is different from the Axl Rose on a daily basis. I think that the bad boy image sales records much better than a man who a normal joe when outside the view of the public. I wondered how your report or findings could be accurate if it was based of public eye Axl rather than behind closed door Axl. The fact that you did do the report was awesome and very interesting.

Incarceration Syndrome is the cousin to prisoner of war syndrome. It is said that after 18 months of being confined and told how to act walk and talk in short how to live that the person who is being controlled looses the ability to make choices for him self. Simple things that we take for granted like spur of the moment choices to roll with our friends or pay bills and so on are greatly challenged by the side effects of incarceration syndrome. It can also come from being reclusive. Look it up and see what you think on a comparison to the report you gave . I think you will find it fascinating to read and to incorporate in to the reporting formula you used to start the post.

[Little EMO Annie]

Personally I have never bought into psychological profiles from filling out questionnaires. Too simplistic. When I was in college I took a graduate level course on psychiatric nursing which essentially rebuked all the stuff they taught in basic psychology. So I never understood. Why they taught it in the first place. The most important thing I did learn was that there are different frameworks. And they are all essentially theories. Personally I believe we are all souls having a human experience. It is easy to try and psychoanalyze other people so that we can feel better about ourselves.

[skybluzcu]

Personally I have never bought into psychological profiles from filling out questionnaires. Too simplistic. When I was in college I took a graduate level course on psychiatric nursing which essentially rebuked all the stuff they taught in basic psychology. So I never understood. Why they taught it in the first place. The most important thing I did learn was that there are different frameworks. And they are all essentially theories. Personally I believe we are all souls having a human experience. It is easy to try and psychoanalyze other people so that we can feel better about ourselves.

i may have to agree with you on some level. there are classic cases of mental issues like depression anxiety ocd things of this nature that are just black and white text book cases. but they can also be considered personal demons for lack of better verbiage. the human mind is a odd little thing some of the i can say i would never entertain the thought of diving into like dalmer manson and the type people that would harm and other person. those minds i dont understand and to be honest i would not want to even get close enough to explore.

but a person that battles and fights to have a better way of life and rises up above fear and depression one that fights to be strong rather than weak i see nothing but opportunity for learning and sharing and helping others come out of dark places that hold them prisoner. just a thought

[Little EMO Annie]

Jared Padelecki who plays Sam Winchester on SUPERNATURAL has been very open about his battles with depression and has really done alot to reach out to troubled young people. A great spiritual teacher named James Van Praagh said some serial killers who are executed on death row do not cross over and will latch themselves onto someone with a weak mind. kinda creepy but makes alot of sense.