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1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

 

Oh, well. Fuck them all. No one should be saved. Survival of the fittest. :P

I like the way you think, lets start a political party, nothing can go wrong, I'm sure of it! :lol:

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2 hours ago, Swampfox said:

You totally missed my point.  When an unarmed white man is killed by police it's a non story.  The media ignores it completely.  But when an unarmed black man is killed it becomes national headlines and the victim becomes a household name.  Why do you think that is?

1) It likely is a story, just not one that reaches national headlines since it isn't reflective of a much bigger issue.

2) Many black Americans have died at the hands of police without national headlines.  

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42 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

when if you would add one word it would be clear to everyone even without Google.

Lots of slogans are not crystal clear to the uneducated but they still work.  

Even still, anyone with an intelligence above Forest Gump should understand that when people say Black Lives Matter, it's relative to the fact that in many aspects of American society they simply don't (or matter far less than white people).  

Also, this has been explained over and over again for the better part of a half a decade.  At this point, if you're still taking issue with the name, your problem isn't with basic understanding.  The problem speaks more to one's disagreement with the racial inequalities than it does with the wording of the slogan.  

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55 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

But they don't do it. And you shouldn't have to look up Google to get the meaning behind a slogan, when if you would add one word it would be clear to everyone even without Google.

The only way "black lives matters" could be construed to mean anything more than that, like "only black lives matter" or "blacks lives matter more", is by ill-will. You are basically taking a clear statement and adding some nefarious meaning to it which isn't there. As I said before, do you think "save the whales" mean "and fuck the tigers!!"?

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13 minutes ago, downzy said:

Lots of slogans are not crystal clear to the uneducated but they still work.  

Even still, anyone with an intelligence above Forest Gump should understand that when people say Black Lives Matter, it's relative to the fact that in many aspects of American society they simply don't (or matter far less than white people).  

Also, this has been explained over and over again for the better part of a half a decade.  At this point, if you're still taking issue with the name, your problem isn't with basic understanding.  The problem speaks more to one's disagreement with the racial inequalities than it does with the wording of the slogan.  

I don't have a problem with it. I'm just stating it leaves things open for interpretation, as evidenced in every comment section under every BLM news item as there is lways someone who says ALM, either due to ignorance, disagreement, stupidity, racism, stirring the pot, whatever. A clearer slogan would take care of that. That is all.

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The only way "black lives matters" could be construed to mean anything more than that, like "only black lives matter" or "blacks lives matter more", is by ill-will. You are basically taking a clear statement and adding some nefarious meaning to it which isn't there. As I said before, do you think "save the whales" mean "and fuck the tigers!!"?

Don't tell me that. Tell that to all the people chiming in that ALM. And whether you want to admit it or not, BLM leaves room for doubt, as seen in comments over and over. 

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4 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Don't tell me that. Tell that to all the people chiming in that ALM. And whether you want to admit it or not, BLM leaves room for doubt, as seen in comments over and over. 

I don't think it does. I think it is very clear what it means. It means that black lives matter. 

Maybe it is the novelty of the thought that confuses some people? :lol: Or less jokingly, maybe it is its simplicity and obviousness that make people look for hidden or additional meanings? That it is so obvious that there shouldn't be a need to state it, so hence there must be something more to it?

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12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think it does. I think it is very clear what it means. It means that black lives matter. 

Maybe it is the novelty of the thought that confuses some people? :lol: Or less jokingly, maybe it is its simplicity and obviousness that make people look for hidden or additional meanings? That it is so obvious that there shouldn't be a need to state it, so hence there must be something more to it?

Or a deliberately devious response with a noble connotation that some people have used dishonourably and others have picked up on without the initial sinister motive?  Kinda like the EDL, started by a bunch of racist nutbags but with a manifesto that a great many misguided but well meaning people can potentially get behind.  Or perhaps it was started by people with a genuine misunderstanding, its entirely possible y'know, you should never give people (and I include myself in this) too much credit for wits. 

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3 hours ago, Dazey said:

See my post just above for what “All Lives Matter” means as a movement. 

it doesn't "have" to mean that

"all lives matter" can be a prefectly valid slogan, and is in my opinion preferrable over "black lives matter"

it's such a strange quote. Does my life not matter? or yours? do black lives matter more? I don't really know what to make of that.

if your aim is to remove discrimination, then your goal is to treat all lives equal, hence: all lives matter.

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3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Only if you think it means that black lives matter more than other lives, or that only black lives matter. But of course it doesn't. This is all in your head. Your argument is basically as backwards as thinking that "save the whales" means that we should "kill all tigers". The expression simply states something that should be entirely noncontroversial to everybody but racists: that black lives matter. And in a world where it seems like many people don't agree with this, it needs to be stated.

 

missed opportunity to bring the races together, in unison.

"all lives matter" is far more approriate.

"IF" bringing the races together is your goal in the first place, of course

the anger on display, suggests otherwise

well, count me out. "peace, with violence if necessary" is not something I subscribe to

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2 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Honestly, this is akin to taking a charity like 'Save the Children' or 'Help the Aged' and going, 'oh...oh...OH, so only children should be saved? or 'yeah, cuz no one else deserves help apart from the elderly eh?' 

The difference being, if you said that in response to those slogans, you wouldn't lose your job like you would in response to BLM...

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16 minutes ago, action said:

missed opportunity to bring the races together, in unison.

"all lives matter" is far more approriate.

"IF" bringing the races together is your goal in the first place, of course

The slogan just means that black lives matter; the goal of the movement is to reduce widespread discrimination against blacks. 

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3 hours ago, Ratbrain said:

How would that stack up for a white man living in Pakistan for example or Japan or any other place where non white people are in charge?

Here's the real deal, no one says Japanese people in Japan have Japanese privilege because the Japanese would never be foolish enough to fall for such a trick like some whites are. They'd simply shrug it off and go about their day.

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7 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

The difference being, if you said that in response to those slogans, you wouldn't lose your job like you would in response to BLM...

Its being said all over the place, are you telling me all those folks are now unemployed?

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10 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

The difference being, if you said that in response to those slogans, you wouldn't lose your job like you would in response to BLM...

The difference is that there isn't systemic discrimination against the children and the elderly similar to systemic racism against blacks, and hence the reaction to someone attempting to cancel those slogans would be different. 

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7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Its being said all over the place, are you telling me all those folks are now unemployed?

It's been reported people have been fired, not all, but some. The most egregious example I saw (since his post was so mild) was this: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/02/kings-announcer-grant-napear-fired-after-black-lives-matter-backlash/

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4 hours ago, action said:

"black lives matter" is a problematic slogan. It is inherently discriminating in and of itself.

the belgian extreme right party has the similar slogan "own people first".

When you're going to prefer one group of people over another, you're discriminating.

"all lives matter" would have been a much more appropriate slogan in response to the police brutalities. Why exhanging one discrimination with another?

"all lives" can't matter until black lives matter. That's really it in a nutshell. 

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3 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

I don't have a problem with it. I'm just stating it leaves things open for interpretation, as evidenced in every comment section under every BLM news item as there is lways someone who says ALM, either due to ignorance, disagreement, stupidity, racism, stirring the pot, whatever. A clearer slogan would take care of that. That is all. 

BLM as a term highlights anti black racism. One way it highlights racism is by having comment sections full of racists outing themselves. So you can hardly suggest it fails in highlighting racism. 

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3 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

I'm just stating it leaves things open for interpretation, as evidenced in every comment section under every BLM news item as there is lways someone who says ALM, either due to ignorance, disagreement, stupidity, racism, stirring the pot, whatever. A clearer slogan would take care of that. That is all.

Do you think it would really make a difference? 

I think people who doubt there is a problem would still take issue regardless of the name or slogan.  

Several friends and people I know who took issue or didn't understand the message four or five years ago now (for the most part) no longer take issue with the phrase since they understand its meaning.  I would have agreed five or six years ago, but at this point, if you still don't get it, the issue isn't the name or slogan but one's inability or unwillingness to see the problem.

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4 hours ago, Dazey said:

Which is exactly what most of the people opposing BLM in this thread have been doing. I posted that in the expectation of somebody replying exactly as you just did so thanks for proving my point. You can’t have it both ways. 

So your marginalizing of Trump voters is just a set up then?  To prove a point about BLM?  I think you just look for any excuse to make everything revert back to Trump and his base.

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More evidence/information as to why police brutality against minority populations has profound implications on the rest of the community in a way that intra-community violence does not:

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/10/21284793/police-killings-school-performance-desmond-ang

More evidence/information that a subset of Americans are idiots:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/10/poll-trump-religion-faith/5332728002/

Regardless of whether you support Trump or not, you have to be a grade-A moron if you think Trump has a religious bone in his body.  

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25 minutes ago, action said:

it's unnecessarily complicated this way.

Wait. What? What's complicated about it?

The idea is that black lives do not matter, so "all lives matter" can't be the answer seeing as black lives don't. 

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1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

It's been reported people have been fired, not all, but some. The most egregious example I saw (since his post was so mild) was this: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/02/kings-announcer-grant-napear-fired-after-black-lives-matter-backlash/

Well to properly discuss this further we’d both need detailed information on dismissals for ageism and...uh, children-ism :lol:  You’ll have to help me out here mate cuz I’m at a loss myself :lol: 

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1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

Wait. What? What's complicated about it?

The idea is that black lives do not matter, so "all lives matter" can't be the answer seeing as black lives don't. 

it is adding a step to the ultimate goal of equality.

you said it yourself: ""all lives" can't matter until black lives matter."

there is something profoundly twisted by proclaiming that all lives can't matter.

who will decide "when" black lives are mattering in society, so that then we can reach the ideal state where all lives matter? the white people? the black people?

And what happens in the meantime? One skin color is better than the other?

I say therefore: all lives matter "now". We should all be treated equally. the white and the black. you are not better than me, because you have a different skin color. Regardless of skin color, you are equal. There is therefore no need to refer to a certain type of skin color in your slogan. the goal we're trying to achieve is race equality.

that the slogan "all lives matter" causes so much anger, says it enough, really.

 

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