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Donald Trump just grabbed America by the pussy

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2 hours ago, downzy said:

:lol:

 

lol

I admire the fact that they are setting a good example by wearing the face masks.  That said, they really don't need to (potentially) risk their health (getting shortness of breath, etc)  by wearing them while doing an athletic/aerobic activity like riding a bike.   It's relatively easy to be "socially distant" while bike riding. 

But I understand why they wore them, knowing there would be "criticism" from the far right if they didn't.  The last thing they want is another "meme" going viral.   Similar to how the far right immediately criticized Biden for not wearing a face mask while driving the convertible classic car in his commercial.  (Even though he had one on before he started driving it)  Sad state of affairs, tbh.

That's one example of how "politicizing" the pandemic can be detrimental.  

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Democrats handed a big political victory on the next stimulus round to Trump with this press conference announcing $400 federal unemployment, eviction moratorium, payroll tax holiday, etc. That’s what Chuck and Nancy get for only caring about political posturing and not budging from $600 even as Republicans started compromising to $400. Their constituents would not have cared one bit if they went down to $400.

Edited by Jakey Styley
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3 hours ago, Jakey Styley said:

Democrats handed a big political victory on the next stimulus round to Trump with this press conference announcing $400 federal unemployment, eviction moratorium, payroll tax holiday, etc. That’s what Chuck and Nancy get for only caring about political posturing and not budging from $600 even as Republicans started compromising to $400. Their constituents would not have cared one bit if they went down to $400.

Exactly.  
 

The shocking aspect is that Republicans were even willing to go well over 1 trillion. (Which is still a gargantuan and unheard of amount prior to this year).

Extended it “only” costs 312 billion for 26 weeks, if every single one of the 30 million unemployed qualifies for it and claims it.  (Good chance they won't).

Makes you really wonder about the absurd amount of pork barrel politics that was going on, especially in the Democrats’ bill of OVER 3 TRILLION. Smh.

 

Edited by Ace Nova
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3 hours ago, Jakey Styley said:

Democrats handed a big political victory on the next stimulus round to Trump with this press conference announcing $400 federal unemployment, eviction moratorium, payroll tax holiday, etc. That’s what Chuck and Nancy get for only caring about political posturing and not budging from $600 even as Republicans started compromising to $400. Their constituents would not have cared one bit if they went down to $400.

I've heard $300 is coming from federal payments and the extra $100 is coming from the state. Democrat ran states are scrambling looking for money right now. If they refuse to hand over $100, it gives them a terrible look, all the while making Trump look good. Pelosi and cryin' Chuck Schumer wanted to include a voter ID ban, a national ballot harvesting, and bailouts for broke Democrat states. Makes you wonder!

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54 minutes ago, Silent Jay said:

I've heard $300 is coming from federal payments and the extra $100 is coming from the state. Democrat ran states are scrambling looking for money right now. If they refuse to hand over $100, it gives them a terrible look, all the while making Trump look good. Pelosi and cryin' Chuck Schumer wanted to include a voter ID ban, a national ballot harvesting, and bailouts for broke Democrat states. Makes you wonder!

If (most likely when) Democrats contest it, the potential fallout could be pretty big.  
 

Everything he ordered today will benefit the working and middle classes.  They aren’t going to want to hear about “whether or not” Trump has the legal authority to do it nor do they want their money delayed for weeks;  possibly longer.  
 

There’s also extensions of the eviction moratorium,  student loan payment deferrals and the cutting of payroll taxes until the end of the year.

I really don’t see how democrats will come out of this unscathed, other  than immediately coming down 2 trillion on their proposal and passing a bipartisan bill.   

 

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7 hours ago, Jakey Styley said:

Democrats handed a big political victory on the next stimulus round to Trump with this press conference announcing $400 federal unemployment, eviction moratorium, payroll tax holiday, etc. That’s what Chuck and Nancy get for only caring about political posturing and not budging from $600 even as Republicans started compromising to $400. Their constituents would not have cared one bit if they went down to $400.

Maybe...  But there's huge problems with Trump's actions (outside the legality of what Trump is trying to accomplish).

With respect to unemployment benefits, Trump's E.O. likely won't really do anything, at least not for awhile.  Experts reading the order suggest that it doesn't actually increase unemployment benefits.  What it does is create an entirely new program that could potentially take months to set up.  

It's also wrong to assume that the sticking point was the bonus amount.  Senate Republicans had made it clear that liability protection was a red line for them, something Democrats would never agree to.  

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2 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

There’s also extensions of the eviction moratorium,  student loan payment deferrals and the cutting of payroll taxes until the end of the year.

I really don’t see how democrats will come out of this unscathed, other  than immediately coming down 2 trillion on their proposal and passing a bipartisan bill.   

No offence, but that's a really terrible and cynical way to look at things.

Trump is essentially bypassing the constitutionally mandated duties of Congress with respect to taxation and spending.  

At this point, why even bother electing members to the House and Senate?  If the President can simply decree tax rates and fiscal policy, then it stops being a representative democracy.  

This is probably the most dangerous action Trump has taken during his Presidency.  He's using an inability or unwillingness to negotiate (I thought he was a dealmaker?) to override the Constitution.  If that somehow benefits Trump politically and helps him win re-election, then America is fucked.  

3 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

I've heard $300 is coming from federal payments and the extra $100 is coming from the state

Considering most states are deep in the red and will be forced to make drastic cuts, I'm curious how Trump expects states to pick up this expense.  

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This tweet forecasts what’s coming.

For every action there is a reaction. 

Don’t expect Democrats to keep the filibuster around the next time they control the Senate. 

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1 hour ago, downzy said:

No offence, but that's a really terrible and cynical way to look at things.

Trump is essentially bypassing the constitutionally mandated duties of Congress with respect to taxation and spending.  

 

I don't necessarily disagree.

But do you think "Joe the Plumber" is worried about legalities or do you think he's worried about making his car payment? 

How about "Jane, first year med student with 80k in student loans"...  Will she lose sleep over Trump "bypassing congress during a state of emergency" or will she lose sleep over not being able to pay her loans on time?

How about "Johnny, who has missed several rent payments"...What will he think when the Sheriff comes to his place to evict him?  Will he say "Great job Democrats, you showed Trump who's boss!"  Or will he say... "You made me homeless, Democrats....but Trump at least tried to save me"

 

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Just now, Ace Nova said:

I don't necessarily disagree.

But do you think "Joe the Plumber" is worried about legalities or do you think he's worried about making his car payment? 

How about "Jane, first year med student with 80k in student loans"...  Will she lose sleep over Trump "bypassing congress during a state of emergency" or will she lose sleep over not being able to pay her loans on time?

How about "Johnny, who has missed several rent payments"...What will he think when the Sheriff comes to his place to evict him?  Will he say "Great job Democrats, you showed Trump who's boss!"  Or will he say... "You made me homeless, Democrats....but Trump at least tried to save me"

Then I hope Joe, Jane, and Johnny are fine with Chinese-styled authoritarianism.  Because that's the trade-off they would be making by rewarding Trump with their political support.  

Regardless, Trump isn't actually saving those people.  In fact, he might have made things worse for himself since he now owns, entirely, the recovery. 

And he's made both the recovery and his political fortunes dependent on states coming up with a new payment program (which will be interesting since most states are barely holding together their current UI systems).  What could go wrong?  

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1 minute ago, downzy said:

Then I hope Joe, Jane, and Johnny are fine with Chinese-styled authoritarianism.  Because that's the trade-off they would be making by rewarding Trump with their political support.  

Regardless, Trump isn't actually saving those people.  In fact, he might have made things worse for himself since he now owns, entirely, the recovery. 

And he's made both the recovery and his political fortunes dependent on states coming up with a new payment program (which will be interesting since most states are barely holding together their current UI systems).  What could go wrong?  

Optics, bruh, optics.

And I agree, it will be interesting to witness how this all unfolds...for both sides.

 

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What could go wrong by depleting FEMA of all funding over the next two months to cover UI benefits just as we're about to enter hurricane season on the east coast and forest fire season on the west?  

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14 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Optics, bruh, optics.

And I agree, it will be interesting to witness how this all unfolds...for both sides.

 

Read Plato's Republic.  Written thousands of years ago but still succinct in its prediction that optics are the very reason why democracies crumble, through the facilitation of an uneducated and amoral citizenry, into tyrannical rule.

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1 hour ago, Ace Nova said:

I don't necessarily disagree.

But do you think "Joe the Plumber" is worried about legalities or do you think he's worried about making his car payment? 

How about "Jane, first year med student with 80k in student loans"...  Will she lose sleep over Trump "bypassing congress during a state of emergency" or will she lose sleep over not being able to pay her loans on time?

How about "Johnny, who has missed several rent payments"...What will he think when the Sheriff comes to his place to evict him?  Will he say "Great job Democrats, you showed Trump who's boss!"  Or will he say... "You made me homeless, Democrats....but Trump at least tried to save me"

 

I think this situation show how lousy and pathetic all sides are. But Joe and Jane can take advantage of an election year. They need to send mails and text people in Congress "representing" :rolleyes: their State. Joe and Jane have the power to vote them out in November. They have to make sure Congress get that

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1 hour ago, Padme said:

I think this situation show how lousy and pathetic all sides are. But Joe and Jane can take advantage of an election year. They need to send mails and text people in Congress "representing" :rolleyes: their State. Joe and Jane have the power to vote them out in November. They have to make sure Congress get that

One problem is that Donald and his cronies are currently doing everything they can to gut the postal service to prevent Joe and Jane from exercising their democratic rights in November. 

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1 minute ago, Dazey said:

One problem is that Donald and his cronies are currently doing everything they can to gut the postal service to prevent Joe and Jane from exercising their democratic rights in November. 

Right now the issue is people who need help. Nobody can stop Joe and Jane from sending emails or making phone calls to members of Congress

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14 minutes ago, Padme said:

Right now the issue is people who need help. Nobody can stop Joe and Jane from sending emails or making phone calls to members of Congress

The problem here is that if the president is allowed to act like a king he will throw the kitchen sink at voters from now until November 3rd and then he won’t give a shit for the next four years at which point Joe, Jane and the horse they both rode in on are fucked. 

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34 minutes ago, Dazey said:

The problem here is that if the president is allowed to act like a king he will throw the kitchen sink at voters from now until November 3rd and then he won’t give a shit for the next four years at which point Joe, Jane and the horse they both rode in on are fucked. 

Trump just did something that is illegal. Anyone can challenge this in court. There is no need for Pelosi to do it herself. There might not be necessary to go to court. When it comes to spending money, the Constitution is clear. What it needs to be done now is that both Chambers of Congress should make a compromise as soon as possible.

Look, just recently the EU came up with an agreement. There were heated debates and some people were really stubborn and unwilling to give in on anything. What it seemed impossible and a total failure, well it had a happy ending

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3 hours ago, Padme said:

Trump just did something that is illegal. Anyone can challenge this in court. There is no need for Pelosi to do it herself.

Incorrect. 

The issue of standing is the first concern courts consider before determining a case on its merits. Only a member of Congress would have standing to challenge executive action that violates the separation on powers as clearly delineated and specified in the constitution. 

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3 hours ago, downzy said:

Incorrect. 

The issue of standing is the first concern courts consider before determining a case on its merits. Only a member of Congress would have standing to challenge executive action that violates the separation on powers as clearly delineated and specified in the constitution. 

Sorry, where did you get that only a member of Congress could challenge? I'm not saying that's not the case. I just can't find anything about it

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