Jump to content

US Politics/Elections Thread


Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, downzy said:

Do you have any direct evidence or information that indicates that these few east asians made any real gains prior to the post-war efforts to reduce discrimination amongst Asians?  I can't find any.

What I can find is that the number of asians in America prior to 1965 was tiny.  We're talking about a population of less than 1 percent that largely lived in heavily segregated communities that were able to leverage their connections in Asia to produce wealth in America (something not afforded to black Americans).  

I do, but I read it in a book (Supermob) so I can't just give you a google link. For example, the Japanese minority had made substantial gains on the west coast before they got wiped out financially from the internment camps.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 26.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • downzy

    3942

  • Georgy Zhukov

    1525

  • classicrawker

    1519

  • soon

    1473

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Donald Trump just grabbed America by the pussy

Posted Images

27 minutes ago, downzy said:

Again, this is irrelevant.  Most of those Indians are coming to the US with their education already attained (or in the process of being attained).  

 

It's part of the picture of America. Some of you guys need to update your talking points. Your talking points are laboring under the premise of an America that's mostly white with a small black minority. That isn't the country anymore. If we're going to talk about racial gaps in achievement, income, and crime, you can't just talk black and white anymore. You have to talk about asians, mestizos, jews, indians, etc too.

Edited by Basic_GnR_Fan
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

If you're the highest earning median income group, that would seem like some type of privilege, going by the liberal worldview (not that I buy into it the way liberals do, but still I want to hear how you defend this).

And what would having more billionaires that happen to be of a different race really do for anyone who is middle or working class? Essentially you are pushing for some type of tokenism.

Narrow the gap. Make more opportunities available for people living in small towns. Geography is a factor. One thing is New York and small towns in Alabama or North Dakota are a different world. Keep in mind that 70 years ago Seatle was nothing compare what it has become in recent decades.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

It's part of the picture of America. Some of you guys need to update your talking points. Your talking points are laboring under the premise of an America that's mostly white with a small black minority. That isn't the country anymore. If we're going to talk about racial gaps in achievement, income, and crime, you can't just talk black and white anymore. You have to talk about asians, mestizos, jews, indians, etc too.

But it’s a very small and relatively new part. Social and political systems are decades in the making. 

Again, I would go back and actually read the article I posted above. The model minority trope you’re employing here is missing the historical context that has targeted one race to a degree that are unfamiliar to other races. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Padme said:

Narrow the gap. Make more opportunities available for people living in small towns. Geography is a factor. One thing is New York and small towns in Alabama or North Dakota are a different world. Keep in mind that 70 years ago Seatle was nothing compare what it has become in recent decades.

I was in Seattle about 8 years ago just wandering around on my own on a bar crawl. Found myself in a bar called the Double Header which was very friendly. I was wearing skinny jeans and cuban heels and chatting to a lot of big hairy men. It wasn't until I went to the bathroom and noticed that there were no cubicles that I realised my mistake. Still stayed in there for a few hours afterwards and somehow avoided being gang raped. :lol:  

 

* completely unrelated to the topic at hand but I always like to tell that story. :lol: 

Edited by Dazey
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, downzy said:

But it’s a very small and relatively new part. Social and political systems are decades in the making. 

Again, I would go back and actually read the article I posted above. The model minority trope you’re employing here is missing the historical context that has targeted one race to a degree that are unfamiliar to other races. 

What trope did I use? I already in befored those. I'm admitting asians were a small minority pre 1965 and that northeast asians and south asians have different rates of achievement themselves. But we can't ignore that northeast asians as well as indians are dominating achievement as far as average earnings, educational achievement, and low criminality.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

But we can't ignore that northeast asians as well as indians are dominating achievement as far as average earnings, educational achievement, and low criminality.

Again, just by comparing you’re assuming that these groups have similar experiences and histories in America.  They don’t. The model minority comparison is pointless unless you can demonstrate another minority who faced similar conditions as black Americans for as long as black Americans have.  It’s a pointless comparison for the sake of undermining the very real and prolonged racial bias towards black Americans.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I don't think anyone argues against the fact that the post 1965 east asians that came to the US came in a much better way than the african slaves of the past. However, the east asians that came to the US in the 19th century came as one step above slaves. Their descendants have gone on to pretty much lead the pack in terms of achievement and have the lowest crime rates. Then you have the mestizo populations that came to the US in the 19th and 20th century's, who perform somewhere in between blacks and whites/east asians. Once you start analyzing all the different racial groups that came to the US and when and how they achieve now, it becomes a much more complicated story.

The immigrant group who faced the most appalling treatment were the Chinese of the early-mid 19th century who arrived in great numbers during and around the period of the Gold Rush, building the Central Pacific and so forth. Most were already in debt to the agencies when they arrived due to a system whereby their passage was paid by agencies, so they were already in a state of debt-servitude which was little more than slavery. Nativist-racialist sentiment (this was the era of the ''yellow peril'') instigated a multitude of anti-Chinese legislation, withholding citizenship, against property and land-owning, higher taxes, anti-miscegenation, etc., eventually culminating in the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. The Japanese experience was analogous and often amalgamated with the Chinese experience, albeit Japanese numbers were slight (indeed, Japan was in Sakoku until 1853 so inherently produced no migrants). 

Edited by DieselDaisy
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

But we can't ignore that northeast asians as well as indians are dominating achievement as far as average earnings, educational achievement, and low criminality.

Because they come from a different culture with a different set of values, especially first generation immigrants and their kids.  They don't aspire to a holiday in Spain every year or...I dunno, creature comforts.  Like I remember growing up and like...the only food in the house was essential shit.  Like the stuff needed for the three meals of the day, snack foods weren't a concept in my house.  Never went on holiday my whole life really.  Never went out to a restuarant to eat, like a family thing, didn't really go on family outings, never went to the movies until I was old enough to go myself, was 'encouraged' (read the old man kicking my lazy arse out of the house and telling me to get a job) as early as possible.  Shit, there weren't even a VCR in my house til the early 90s.  Or a microwave.  Education is treated as like the most important thing in the fuckin' world.  Coming from a background where amenities aren't plentiful you're taught not to be wasteful in anything.  That shit was religiously ordained actually, like its a sin to throw away food.  Plus get your own business, be self employed, drive a cab, own a shop, start a business, its (on paper anyway) thought to be an easier life.   

These are just a few fundamental examples, it all adds up.  Black people have a different social situation in America.  It took entire movements in the 60s and 70s to instill concepts like self actualisation and own your own shit and racial pride in black people, Asians kinda come from that naturally from back home.  Black Americans are the descendents of slaves, Asians (the poorer ones, and its generally the poorer ones that tend to migrate, if you got money over there the living standards are very high) are often the descendents of indigenous farmers.

In short, the disparity you speak of is a specific result of the American cultural experience that black people have been subject to, its apples and oranges.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Because they come from a different culture with a different set of values, especially first generation immigrants and their kids.  They don't aspire to a holiday in Spain every year or...I dunno, creature comforts.  Like I remember growing up and like...the only food in the house was essential shit.  Like the stuff needed for the three meals of the day, snack foods weren't a concept in my house.  Never went on holiday my whole life really.  Never went out to a restuarant to eat, like a family thing, didn't really go on family outings, never went to the movies until I was old enough to go myself, was 'encouraged' (read the old man kicking my lazy arse out of the house and telling me to get a job) as early as possible.  Shit, there weren't even a VCR in my house til the early 90s.  Or a microwave.  Education is treated as like the most important thing in the fuckin' world.  Coming from a background where amenities aren't plentiful you're taught not to be wasteful in anything.  That shit was religiously ordained actually, like its a sin to throw away food.  Plus get your own business, be self employed, drive a cab, own a shop, start a business, its (on paper anyway) thought to be an easier life.   

These are just a few fundamental examples, it all adds up.  Black people have a different social situation in America.  It took entire movements in the 60s and 70s to instill concepts like self actualisation and own your own shit and racial pride in black people, Asians kinda come from that naturally from back home.  Black Americans are the descendents of slaves, Asians (the poorer ones, and its generally the poorer ones that tend to migrate, if you got money over there the living standards are very high) are often the descendents of indigenous farmers.

In short, the disparity you speak of is a specific result of the American cultural experience that black people have been subject to, its apples and oranges.

Are you saying black people are lazy haha? Yip. My grandad's view entirely.

You can get away with this stuff as woke have created a new category for you and black people and sort of lumped the two of you in it. You now belong to something called Bame apparently?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Are you saying black people are lazy haha? Yip. My grandad's view entirely.

You can get away with this stuff as woke have created a new category for you and black people and sort of lumped the two of you in it. You now belong to something called Bame apparently?

No, I'm sayin' fuckin' with those whiteboys has made them lazy :lol:  In all seriousness though, I'm illustrating a cultural difference and explaining how it effects a peoples and their mentality and makes such comparisons unfair.  You're enslaved, you're freed into being a sharecropper, you migrate to the cities maybe and work your fuckin' guts out doing menial shit or stay on the farm...cut to the early 60s you're still second class citizens...what value could education have for you, over all, as a peoples?  Thats not to say that some highly educated people didn't come out of black America in that time but those were the lucky few, I'm talking about the broad majority?  What value could you have for putting your head down and grafting when thats what you've been doing the last 350 years and got fuck all for it?  Coupled with the fact you live in limited communities with limited social outlet and limited economic oppertunity, whilst living in a culture that preaches the value of that shit?  The cumulative effect of that is vastly different than some bloke who turned up from India or Pakistan with their particular cultural experience in the 1960s and got a job in a cement factory or a Vauxhall production line.  Which is not to diminish what they did and experienced and got called and were treated but its different to the American situation and the people being subjected to it were different too. 

Also, most Asian immigrants kinda arrived with a certain mindset over here, like we're here to make some money and eventually bugger off home (rarely happens) so, perhaps, I'm extemporizing here, it was like 'they call us coons, fuck it, just do your thing and sod off when you're done'...whereas black Americans kinda didn't have anywhere to go and, after a couple of centuries were a lot more culturally American than they were African...a fuckload more. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to wonder if American evangelicals, who have this deep seeded belief that America is blessed by God, will be forced to revise their "God Loves America" belief when half of the country will be unliveable:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/15/magazine/climate-crisis-migration-america.html

If you're the kind of person who likes to go long on their investments (i.e. 30 year time frame), buy land in Northern US cities.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dazey said:

 Moron. 

Anyone who supports him is a moron of the highest order. It is not up to debate, he caters to the lowest form of intelligence

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

The immigrant group who faced the most appalling treatment were the Chinese of the early-mid 19th century who arrived in great numbers during and around the period of the Gold Rush, building the Central Pacific and so forth. Most were already in debt to the agencies when they arrived due to a system whereby their passage was paid by agencies, so they were already in a state of debt-servitude which was little more than slavery. Nativist-racialist sentiment (this was the era of the ''yellow peril'') instigated a multitude of anti-Chinese legislation, withholding citizenship, against property and land-owning, higher taxes, anti-miscegenation, etc., eventually culminating in the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. The Japanese experience was analogous and often amalgamated with the Chinese experience, albeit Japanese numbers were slight (indeed, Japan was in Sakoku until 1853 so inherently produced no migrants). 

Everyone pushing oppression narratives to explain gaps in achievement just ignore all of this like it never happened.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...