Georgy Zhukov Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I hope he becomes Prime Minister. Then if Sanders becomes President then two of the greatest nations on earth will have socialist leaders. Sanders isn't a socialist.To the American standards, he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 http://m.goal.com/s/en/news/13712/extra-time/2015/09/13/15306752/in-arsene-we-trust-jeremy-corbyns-love-affair-with-arsenal?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Wonder if UKIP might be on the receiving end of some of Labour's ex-voters. I'm thinking of writing in Nigel Farage as my vote for President here if it ends up Hillary vs. Jeb here or something else as godawful as that. Edited September 13, 2015 by Flayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 If Sanders is a socialist then Norway is a socialist country.I guess the truth is that "socialdemocrat" doesn't fit with the dichotomistic American thinking (good/evil, us/them, democrat/republican, friend/enemy), so it has been dumbed down to "socialist". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 It sort of makes sense if you can put yourself in the shoes of someone who sees socialism as a formula for economic suicide. Suicide is still suicide whether it's brought to you by revolution or election.Just fill in the blanks with an ideology you despise and see how you would fare yourself against the standards you'd like your rivals to meet. How much of a distinction would you draw between democratic fascism and fascism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 It sort of makes sense if you can put yourself in the shoes of someone who sees socialism as a formula for economic suicide. Suicide is still suicide whether it's brought to you by revolution or election.Just fill in the blanks with an ideology you despise and see how you would fare yourself against the standards you'd like your rivals to meet. How much of a distinction would you draw between democratic fascism and fascism?Except that socialism doesn't work yet the Scandinavian model is clearly very successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 I hope he becomes Prime Minister. Then if Sanders becomes President then two of the greatest nations on earth will have socialist leaders. Sanders isn't a socialist. To the American standards, he is. To American standards Oswald Moseley was a socialist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 It sort of makes sense if you can put yourself in the shoes of someone who sees socialism as a formula for economic suicide. Suicide is still suicide whether it's brought to you by revolution or election.I don't think that being of the conviction that "socialism is economic suicide" means that you have to not know that socialdemocracy is actually capitalism with a social slant and not socialism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 It's nice to see the English left have something to cheer about after decades of the two main parties in Westminster standing for exactly the same appalling right-wing socioeconomic model. In the 1990s, the Labour party became a watered-down Tory-lite shell of what it should have been in order to appeal to "middle England" and so much of the infrastructure of the Labour party is Blairite now that it'll potentially be difficult for Corbyn to hold the whole mess together. It's entirely possible that there are a significant number within the party who will work to undermine his every move, and certainly the (predominantly right-wing and owned by Tax-evading, foreign-domiciled billionaries) mainstream British press will delight in attacking him every step of the way, as they did with the other significant left-wing movement of recent years, the campaign for Scottish independence.Unfortunately, the majority of the English electorate just don't seem predisposed to social democracy and their media won't allow them a balanced view of the situation. Decades of Thatcherite brainwashing has blinded them to the fact that the Nordic social democracies are far more successful at taking good care of a far greater number of their people (and indeed, at most other aspects of statehood other than military dick-waving) than could ever be managed successfully under the current low-tax-low-spend model which the UK (outside of Scotland) remains so enamoured with. That being the case, it's difficult to see Corbyn leading the Labour party to victory in 2020...Corbyn's also shooting himself in the foot a bit by refusing to learn about the way political life in Scotland has changed over the last 10 years, he remains hostile to the idea of Scottish home rule within the UK, never mind Independence. Most of Corbyn's natural allies in Scotland now want it to govern its own affairs and not respecting that political agenda will cost him. Then there's the fact that the Scottish Labour leadership is staunchly Blairite, committed to retaining the nuclear weapons and current leader Kezia Dugdale said that a Corbyn victory would reduce the Labour Party to "carping on the sidelines", which is a bit awkward now considering he's her boss. None of this bodes particularly well for a Labour recovery in Scotland, nor to slow the social dissolution of the Union.It is good to see the Conservative British establishment have another thorn in their privileged, arrogant, greedy, corrupt, bullying sides though. Get it right fucking up them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 It sort of makes sense if you can put yourself in the shoes of someone who sees socialism as a formula for economic suicide. Suicide is still suicide whether it's brought to you by revolution or election.I don't think that being of the conviction that "socialism is economic suicide" means that you have to not know that socialdemocracy is actually capitalism with a social slant and not socialism.I'm well aware of the distinction. Lot of people aren't. It'd be much easier to just change the branding than to reeducate the entire population. Call it something that doesn't have socialism in the name if you don't want people confusing it with socialism. That's how progressivism caught on here for a while at the turn of the last century - they called it progressivism, not socialism. Unfortunately these days, you've got the SJW lunatics poisoning the well with that term as well, but there are plenty more that haven't been used up yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) I don't think a global term like socialdemocracy (or socialism) should be rebranded because Americans prefer a simple world consisting of only capitalism and socialism, and not all the various forms of state that lies within these two and beyond. These things really shouldn't be dumbed down. Edited September 13, 2015 by SoulMonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Whatever you say. Just don't expect many Americans to be won over to social democracy by griping about how Americans are just too dumb to understand it. Edited September 13, 2015 by Flayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfTheWave Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I hope he becomes Prime Minister. Then if Sanders becomes President then two of the greatest nations on earth will have socialist leaders. Both of which will then cease to be two of the greatest nations on earth. But you named yourself after Stalin's general, so you probably don't care as long as the bourgeoisie pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I hope he becomes Prime Minister. Then if Sanders becomes President then two of the greatest nations on earth will have socialist leaders. Both of which will then cease to be two of the greatest nations on earth. But you named yourself after Stalin's general, so you probably don't care as long as the bourgeoisie pay.The ruling class will pay for their greed and decadence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Corbyn is well to the left of Nordic style 'social democracy'. He is a fruit loop, a 1930s throwback. He even has the Marxist hat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Whatever you say. Just don't expect many Americans to be won over to social democracy by griping about how Americans are just too dumb to understand it.I am not What I I am hoping is that all the evidence pointing to the nordic model being a really good way of implementing democracy and capitalism, may convince at least some Americans that there is more beneath heaven and sun than just capitalism and socialism 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Corbyn's politics are not Nordic. It is inherently a British brand of socialism which is essentially Bennism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Whatever you say. Just don't expect many Americans to be won over to social democracy by griping about how Americans are just too dumb to understand it.I am not What I I am hoping is that all the evidence pointing to the nordic model being a really good way of implementing democracy and capitalism, may convince at least some Americans that there is more beneath heaven and sun than just capitalism and socialismGood luck with that one lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Corbyn's politics are not Nordic. It is inherently a British brand of socialism which is essentially Bennism.That may be. But Americans have the choice to vote for Bernia Sanders, that openly admires the nordic model and wants it implemented, to some degree, in the US. So for Americans to make an informed decision they sort of have to understand what socialdemocracy is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I've not been interested in Yank politics since Clinton. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I've not been interested in Yank politics since Clinton.I think most of us yanks would agree,its been 15 years of shit with no hope in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I've not been interested in Yank politics since Clinton Monica Lewinsky.I corrected your spelling error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 I've not been interested in Yank politics since Clinton.English politics aint had much goin' for em either if you think about it, who was the last good prime minister?Cameron? WankerBlair? WankerMajor? a lukewarm Thatcher wannabeThatcher? I'm sure as a northerner you're aware of the criticisms thereSo who then? Callaghan? Fuck no, Heath/Wilson? Fondly though people look back on their time they were in charge of this country through some fuckin' awful times, you couldn't really call them good in the sense of having bought about prosperity.So Atlee then, Churchill, Harold Macmillian, Ramsey Macdonald? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I've not been interested in Yank politics since Clinton.English politics aint had much goin' for em either if you think about it, who was the last good prime minister?Cameron? WankerBlair? WankerMajor? a lukewarm Thatcher wannabeThatcher? I'm sure as a northerner you're aware of the criticisms thereSo who then? Callaghan? Fuck no, Heath/Wilson? Fondly though people look back on their time they were in charge of this country through some fuckin' awful times, you couldn't really call them good in the sense of having bought about prosperity.So Atlee then, Churchill, Harold Macmillian, Ramsey Macdonald?Thatcher did a lot of good despite what people may think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 I've not been interested in Yank politics since Clinton.English politics aint had much goin' for em either if you think about it, who was the last good prime minister?Cameron? WankerBlair? WankerMajor? a lukewarm Thatcher wannabeThatcher? I'm sure as a northerner you're aware of the criticisms thereSo who then? Callaghan? Fuck no, Heath/Wilson? Fondly though people look back on their time they were in charge of this country through some fuckin' awful times, you couldn't really call them good in the sense of having bought about prosperity.So Atlee then, Churchill, Harold Macmillian, Ramsey Macdonald?Thatcher did a lot of good despite what people may think.ALL YA NEED TO KNOW ABAAT POLITICS IS MRS FATCHER DONE A LOTTA GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY BUT YOU WOULDNT WANNA SHAG IT! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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