Entertainer Sir Elton John is to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin over LGBT rights in Russia

[RandallFlagg]

It is certainly important to understand exactly why different areas have their own spectrums and attitudes, I agree it's not really correct or helpful when people merely dismiss it or kinda separate it as ''civilized or barbaric'', there's complexities all over this planet, all we have to do is look at the development of various issues within our own society from not very long ago at all, like in their minds, as you said, they're completely operating within the boundaries of acceptable justice, they're not doing it cause they suddenly had a psychotic break over a game of cards or whatever there has to be deep enough associations and offense in their culture to invoke such a savage response, I mean the whole village seemed to either be watching without much urgency to intervene or were all too eager to join in the assault, I don't for a second believe it's something they've never witnessed before.

[Apollo]

I saw this vid on liveleak of these guys somewhere in africa, think it was Kenya, being set on fucking fire and massive jagged rocks being thrown at them as they burnt, they legged it with gasoline poured all over them, some bastard eventually got a match onto them and they were flailing around burning and just gave up after a minute, they were still smashing rocks on their heads as if they were trying to throw them through them into the depths of the earth, it was awful, their crime was being gay apparently.

In some of these countries there is no prescedent to homosexuality? Certain places in Africa, Asia etc there just is no concept for that, I mean we're talking about places that are pretty sexually repressed in a sense even in terms of their responses to heterosexuality, they are a HELLUVA lot of social evolution away from being able to accept homosexuality as a concept, it's almost impossible to understand for them, there just are none in the typical sense of what we would understand a homosexual to be, i.e. grown consenting adults finding each other attractive.

However they do have the concept of fancying boys, but it's not like grown men, nobody wants to shag a bloke or have a relationship with a bloke, there's just no attraction there, it literally becomes boys. My personal theory is that the homosexual impulse is there in em but being able to have a relationship with a bloke is just so far from being anything that could possibly be a practiceable reality, coupled with their own repression what you're left with is these guys, especially in areas like Afghanistan etc that just fancy boys, young boys, 14/15 etc. In the lawless areas etc they actually marry these boys, have em on the side, like bitch boys or whatever, it's some crazy shit (and pretty specific to certain areas and rare).

So because of that the association with homosexuality on the parts of the general population of these countries becomes associated with pedophillia, thats the level that they see it on and how it is understood, like pederesty, because no ones going around at consenting age fancying other grown men, the only way it is understood in is as grown men that prey on vulnerable little boys...and thats how homosexuality is understood in a lot of these places, especially in places like Africa, many places of which just have no reference point for homosexuality whatsoever.

Its kinda like how in the old days, in the 40s/50s etc when being gay was illegal over here these guys would go to places like Shanghai and what have you cruising for boys...so they'd invariably be shagging these teenage boys abroad, not cuz they were nonces or on the noncey side of things it's just thats what was available if you like...see when the law and the resultant morality is crooked then it creates an imbalance in society that leads to real immorality and deviant behaviour, seriously deviant.

The point is in the same way where the truth of where we are at is unique and specific to a specific circumstance and cultural experience and has to be approached in a unique way, same applies for all these other countries too, they are best understood by a right minded educated few from within their own populations that know how best to approach their situation and get them to a place where they have a fair and decent society, it's not this across the board thing where whats right for America or England or Europe today is precisely the best thing for Africa, Asia etc today, the world just doesn't work like that.

Yes there should be equality, freedom of expression, the right to act as you wish as long as you're not trodding on no one but just as you don't give a man thats just come out of a 9 hour trek through the Sahara a jug of ice cold water right away, there is a specific tailored approach required for each culture that is best understood, concieved and implemented by the people from that culture, not Barack Obama flying over going 'hey you ignorant Asians and Africans, we just changed to doing it THIS-A way now, you have a fortnight to catch up before we start calling you cunts, buh bye!'.

Like I said earlier too, a lot of these places ain't got right with heterosexuality yet (shit, I'm not even sure we have!), there's places out there where women can't show their faces in public for crying out loud, accepting benders already is kinda putting the carts arse before the horses front, if that makes sense, they're a good century away from even being able to CONSIDER benders as a concept. I don't think our particular media driven commodifying of it is exactly the fast-track to a well adjusted society and/or a culture where gender relations are configured in some kind of healthy way. Letting Caitlyn Jenners rent-a-tits on the cover of Vanity Fair does not a just society make.

Some very quality points in your post.

It seems pretty arrogant for a leader or for People in this topic to tell an entire country that they need to change their ways in regards to their views on homosexuality.

At some point you gave to let people be who they want.

No. I'm not saying people like Hitler should have been left alone. And people should step in if atrocities (sp) are taking place.

But if the leaders and majority of the population feel one way about a social issue - then other countries shouldn't step in and try and change them.

Where does it stop?

Snakes - you are a professed drug dealer. Do you want the leader of Egypt to come knock down your door and try to change your beliefs and core values to match his?

We all have our own beliefs on things like homosexuality. Is it right for us to infringe on people in other countries and bash them unless they agree with our own personal views? Seems very arrogant to me.

[Snake-Pit]

Snakes - you are a professed drug dealer. Do you want the leader of Egypt to come knock down your door and try to change your beliefs and core values to match his?

I don't know what you're talking about I've bought and sold tea leafs in my time but not marijuana, that's illegal

On an unrelated note, if London/The UK was to have legal recreational marijuana for everyone; even visitors... Then this really be the greatest land of the free.

They say gays are the new blacks my hooray for tolerance!.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Snake-Pit

[DieselDaisy]

Western/first-world norms like democracy, freedom of speech and - pertinent here - toleration, only came about through thousands of years of constitutional and ideological development. Up until 1973, the year NASA launched Mariner 10, homosexuality was an ''illness'' in the United States. Equally, In Britain homosexuality was not decriminalised until 1967; many African states were just coming into being circa 1967! Imagine Elton John or some other politically correct product of ''modern'', ''Guardianista'', England going back in time to the state formation of England as a sovereign unified state (10th century AD)? Imagine him hectoring the Medieval English on the rights of 'LGBT rights' - ''hung drawn and quartered'' would be the outcome for Reginald Dwight one feels? With a country like Russia, despite a brief flirtation with the liberalising of homosexuality during the pre-Stalin USSR, the twin pillars of Russian Orthodoxy and state autocracy have tended to act like bulwarks against gay rights.

[Apollo]

Western/first-world norms like democracy, freedom of speech and - pertinent here - toleration, only came about through thousands of years of constitutional and ideological development. Up until 1973, the year NASA launched Mariner 10, homosexuality was an ''illness'' in the United States. Equally, In Britain homosexuality was not decriminalised until 1967; many African states were just coming into being circa 1967! Imagine Elton John or some other politically correct product of ''modern'', ''Guardianista'', England going back in time to the state formation of England as a sovereign unified state (10th century AD)? Imagine him hectoring the Medieval English on the rights of 'LGBT rights' - ''hung drawn and quartered'' would be the outcome for Reginald Dwight one feels? With a country like Russia, despite a brief flirtation with the liberalising of homosexuality during the pre-Stalin USSR, the twin pillars of Russian Orthodoxy and state autocracy have tended to act like bulwarks against gay rights.

Do you think it is up to those counties and their people to work trough that themselves? Or is the job of the USA to tell them how they must act on such issues?

[DieselDaisy]

It should certainly be up to individual countries.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Do we actually have any gay members on mygnr, because it certainly seems a very straight place. (Cue jokes about Sabbath)

No gay Guns N' Roses fans. Axl made sure of it.

[DieselDaisy]

The whole fanbase is homosexual.

[Georgy Zhukov]

The whole fanbase is homosexual.

Oh stop. Don't make me punish you.

[DieselDaisy]

The whole fanbase is homosexual.

Oh stop. Don't make me punish you.

[DR DOOM]

The whole fanbase is homosexual.

*High Fives*