Len Cnut Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Freedom, freedom, freedom... It has its benefits, trust me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Freedom, freedom, freedom... It has its benefits, trust me The thing that bothers me about the whole "freedom" argument often deployed by gun-rights activists is that it's an overly simplified notion of freedom. "I have the freedom to do this, I have the freedom to do that." Great, how about the freedom from your freedom to. At what point does your right to own a gun supersede my right not to lose my life as a result of gun ownership. Moreover, it's not an either/or proposition. Most developed societies have come to a reasonable compromise over where that balance lies. The problem with the U.S. is there is no reasonable balance between gun ownership of some and personal safety for the rest. A majority of Americans and even NRA members support universal background checks. But does the country get reasonable gun legislation? No. Why? Because a very small few have a vested financial interest to promote bullshit myths surrounding gun-control that prevents reasonable laws to be passed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amir Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 This might all become moot once 3D printing takes off. We've already seen the first 3D printed guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsguy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 But, murder is illegal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 What new is there to say? Tragedy, prayers to families, gun control, Obama won't take mah guns, lolAmerica, fuck you Europe.There, all 9 potential pages summed up. Terrific post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Freedom, freedom, freedom... Yes. Freedom. That kind of attitude deserves another "fuck off." Why has it become so commonplace to just sacrifice "a little freedom?" Like Lenny put it, never the fuck mind why I want a gun. Never the fuck mind why I want to associate. Never the fuck mind why I want to speak freely. It is our right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bono Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The bodyguard arguement gets me. Maybe the bodyguards are armed because there's always that looming threat of a nutcase with a gun that would want to assassinate the politician? Considering what has happened over the years, JFK, Bobby, Reagan and others, it is well justified.Considering all the threats stupid people lost on, I don't blame them, especially Obama's daughters for having body guards. why are they better than us though georgy? i feel my life is just as important as their's. why should they have the right to be protected all the while trying to fuck with mine?I am sorry, but that is a selfish thought. Besides, how many enemies do you have? Are you a drug dealer or something? Do you bang mob wives? What do you do that makes you feel the need to purchase a firearm? Wanting to protect your family is selfish? You know what, fuck off. I must be a drug dealer or a mobster if I want to be safe? Fuck off. I won't be lumped in and limited by the least common denominator because our treatment of the mentally ill is fucked. If I wanted a gun (which I don't, bad experience) I, as a sane person with no background should be able to get one. It is none of your fucking business why I want a gun if I check all the "sane" boxes. Nothing wrong with the mantra of, "stay the fuck out of my life, I'll stay out of yours."The idea that you need a gun to protect your family is ridiculous though. You're far more likely to have a family member killed by owning a gun in your house than you are to ever be a victim and need to use a gun to defend your family. And YES you should fucking need a background check to get a gun. That's America's problem right there. Juvenile attitudes like yours that seem to think guns are toys and anyone should be allowed to have one, no ifs ands or buts. America's irrational fixation and perverted attitude towards guns is so fucked up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I saw the footage of Obama whining that these shootings have become routine and he can't do anything about it because congress is cock blocking him. I wouldn't mind early elections lol, get this guy out of office. He has zero credibility on the matter. Why just get rid of Obama? Get rid of all those tea-bagging cunts who have blocked real change in the legislation? Get rid of all those democrats too pussy to side with their own president. Fucking get rid of all of them.QFT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I think how many Americans define freedom is a little troubling. Granted, it is a very hard word to define since it is a very abstract concept, but it is certainly beyond the notion of one doing whatever the fuck they feel like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The bodyguard arguement gets me. Maybe the bodyguards are armed because there's always that looming threat of a nutcase with a gun that would want to assassinate the politician? Considering what has happened over the years, JFK, Bobby, Reagan and others, it is well justified.Considering all the threats stupid people lost on, I don't blame them, especially Obama's daughters for having body guards. why are they better than us though georgy? i feel my life is just as important as their's. why should they have the right to be protected all the while trying to fuck with mine?I am sorry, but that is a selfish thought. Besides, how many enemies do you have? Are you a drug dealer or something? Do you bang mob wives? What do you do that makes you feel the need to purchase a firearm? Wanting to protect your family is selfish? You know what, fuck off. I must be a drug dealer or a mobster if I want to be safe? Fuck off. I won't be lumped in and limited by the least common denominator because our treatment of the mentally ill is fucked. If I wanted a gun (which I don't, bad experience) I, as a sane person with no background should be able to get one. It is none of your fucking business why I want a gun if I check all the "sane" boxes. Nothing wrong with the mantra of, "stay the fuck out of my life, I'll stay out of yours."The idea that you need a gun to protect your family is ridiculous though. You're far more likely to have a family member killed by owning a gun in your house than you are to ever be a victim and need to use a gun to defend your family. And YES you should fucking need a background check to get a gun. That's America's problem right there. Juvenile attitudes like yours that seem to think guns are toys and anyone should be allowed to have one, no ifs ands or buts. America's irrational fixation and perverted attitude towards guns is so fucked up. Where did I say I don't support background checks? I don't think a gun is a toy, I think it's something that deserves respect, which I, as a non fucking idiot, am capable of treating it with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 But there are a lot of fucking idiots out there. A 10-mile drive on a busy highway is plenty of evidence of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 In response to the attack, Jeb Bush's response was, "stuff happens."And yet according to some, it's Obama that's clueless on the matter. FFS...The other real problem is when people who don't even live in America are so tied to one political party that they lose their ability to think rationally on any subject and they KNOWINGLY take quotes out of context. FFS Downzy. We get it. You worship Obama and hate republicans. FFS open your mind up and stop dividing everything into a dem-vs-republican situation. We need people to come together for a solution. People like you need to stop constantly trying to drive a wedge between people. Obama is the president. That's why people are talking about his actions right now. Who cares what Bush said. He has no power. He is a gov right now along with 49 others. Why didn't u misquote what the Ben Carson or the gov of Idaho said?Even Shades is bringing ideas to the table in this topic that people are agreeing with. Certainly you should be able to put your obsessive republican hating aside for just one day and try and post like an open minded non-biased person. Who gives a fuck what the gov of Florida or Utah thinks. Let's talk about what the president should do. And what you think this country should do. Tell us how your country deals with this issue. Not everything has to be this huge fight against the political party you hate. How about just focusing on the topic for a change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) I resent the idea of having to explain and rationalise my behaviour as a sane person, speaking as someone who lives in a country where guns are illegal. 'Why do you need a gun?' Because fuck you, thats why, get stuffed, why the fuck should I have to answer for why I wanna have a thing, what the fucks it gotta do with you, maybe i wanna knock nails in with it, maybe I'm perfecting a new armed hair-trimming techique, it's none of your fuckin' business, i thought we're supposed to be living in free fuckin' countries?And i hate this idea of people sneering at the idea of freedom. Fuck yes freedom, when did that become a fuckin' bad thing, I must've been on the fuckin' shitter when that resolution was passed, how dare you question me on what i do or don't have in my house and what the fuckin' purpose of it is, as long as i ain't hurting no one i can have whatever the fuck i want in my fuckin' house, i resent having to be treated like a fuckin' looney or rather, worse still as it happens here, treated like there is no kind of human being whatsoever thats mentally stable enough to own a firearm. Fuck that.I've even heard the theory espoused, this ones great, 'anybody that wants to own an assault rifle is immediately unsuitable to own one', what absolute fucking bollocks, I've never heard such shite in all my fuckin' life, I'd love to have fuckin' assault rifles and guns and shotguns and all sorts, am i fuckin' certifiably insane then, just based on those facts alone? If so you wannabe careful cuz there's some fuckin' knitting needles in my house too, you might wanna come get em before I have your fuckin' eyes out.'Why do you need one?', fuck off, don't fuckin' loom over me in this life questioning my fuckin' behaviour, suck my fuckin' cock, thats why i need one, there, have that. Its like everywhere you go you get the fuckin' needle these days, have a fag, those are bad for you y'know, have a spliff, y'know those things cause psychosis, tell someone you have a few pints everyday and it's like 'so how long have you had these problems?', buy more than 3 burgers from the local takeaway 'are you gonna eat all of those?!?!', get fuckin' knotted, sanctimonious cunts.Freedom of choice, freedom to act as you want, believe as you want, all this kind of stuff is literally THE most important thing in the world, you can't legislate humanity into this singular archetype by removing every aspect of the human experience that relies to some degree on the individual and his not being a fucking psychopath, that is the fuckin' fast track to ending up living in fuckin' Demolition Man When did psychos become the standard, when was our behaviour/rights/what we're allowed or disallowed to do predicated on the tendencies of fuckin' mentalists, fuck that shit, if thats the fuckin' price we have to pay for having the goodness in us to allow mental fuckers into society with medication and that then I say bring back your fuckin' old time Shock Corridor bug-houses, instead of giving em zoloft and sending em fuckin' home lock em up, plug their head into the fuckin' national grid and fuckin' mong em out, instead of going 'I KNOW! We'll rebuild the entire country out of cotton wool!' just in case some mongo bangs his head on something.(ignore the last paragraph! )/thread, great postyeah america has a lot of psychos but put things in perspective we have about 8800(2012 statistic) or so homicides a year involving firearms(it was 11,000 or so on 2010) this is all down from 1993 by 49%. so 8800 murders in a country of around 320 million people with a vast array of backgrounds. so the percentage of psychos is extremely low. so you can see when you take into context how many of those were killed by people they know or are killed with illegally obtained guns why responsible gun owners get pissed by hearing the same shit over and over again. i know people dont want to hear about gun violence going down who lost someone to gun violence but that goes for everything in life. Edited October 3, 2015 by bran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 In response to the attack, Jeb Bush's response was, "stuff happens."And yet according to some, it's Obama that's clueless on the matter. FFS...The other real problem is when people who don't even live in America are so tied to one political party that they lose their ability to think rationally on any subject and they KNOWINGLY take quotes out of context.FFS Downzy. We get it. You worship Obama and hate republicans. FFS open your mind up and stop dividing everything into a dem-vs-republican situation. We need people to come together for a solution. People like you need to stop constantly trying to drive a wedge between people.Obama is the president. That's why people are talking about his actions right now. Who cares what Bush said. He has no power. He is a gov right now along with 49 others. Why didn't u misquote what the Ben Carson or the gov of Idaho said?Even Shades is bringing ideas to the table in this topic that people are agreeing with. Certainly you should be able to put your obsessive republican hating aside for just one day and try and post like an open minded non-biased person.Who gives a fuck what the gov of Florida or Utah thinks.Let's talk about what the president should do. And what you think this country should do. Tell us how your country deals with this issue.Not everything has to be this huge fight against the political party you hate. How about just focusing on the topic for a change.Eh, Jeb has not been Governor of Florida since 2007....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Freedom, freedom, freedom... Yes. Freedom. That kind of attitude deserves another "fuck off." Why has it become so commonplace to just sacrifice "a little freedom?" Like Lenny put it, never the fuck mind why I want a gun. Never the fuck mind why I want to associate. Never the fuck mind why I want to speak freely. It is our right.And yet we have the Patriot Act which infringes on our freedoms..... go figure....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 In response to the attack, Jeb Bush's response was, "stuff happens."And yet according to some, it's Obama that's clueless on the matter. FFS...The other real problem is when people who don't even live in America are so tied to one political party that they lose their ability to think rationally on any subject and they KNOWINGLY take quotes out of context.FFS Downzy. We get it. You worship Obama and hate republicans. FFS open your mind up and stop dividing everything into a dem-vs-republican situation. We need people to come together for a solution. People like you need to stop constantly trying to drive a wedge between people.Obama is the president. That's why people are talking about his actions right now. Who cares what Bush said. He has no power. He is a gov right now along with 49 others. Why didn't u misquote what the Ben Carson or the gov of Idaho said?Even Shades is bringing ideas to the table in this topic that people are agreeing with. Certainly you should be able to put your obsessive republican hating aside for just one day and try and post like an open minded non-biased person.Who gives a fuck what the gov of Florida or Utah thinks.Let's talk about what the president should do. And what you think this country should do. Tell us how your country deals with this issue.Not everything has to be this huge fight against the political party you hate. How about just focusing on the topic for a change.No, the real problem is when people like yourself feel the need to snipe and attack others on the one hand and then bitch and complain when others do it to you.Listen to me very carefully: I will fucking ban you from this site if you don't knock off this shit. I'm going to be very fucking clear so you you understand me:If you want to come in here and debate the point, feel free. You want to come in and take shots at me or anyone else you disagree with, please leave and don't come back. Seriously, I'm done with your shit. Make your fucking point about the topic at hand. Please do not come in here and take issue with me personally (or anyone else) with absurd suggestions that I lose my ability to be rational because you disagree with what I say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Freedom, freedom, freedom... Yes. Freedom. That kind of attitude deserves another "fuck off." Why has it become so commonplace to just sacrifice "a little freedom?" Like Lenny put it, never the fuck mind why I want a gun. Never the fuck mind why I want to associate. Never the fuck mind why I want to speak freely. It is our right.And yet we have the Patriot Act which infringes on our freedoms..... go figure....... Exactly, we've given up enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Freedom, freedom, freedom... Yes. Freedom. That kind of attitude deserves another "fuck off." Why has it become so commonplace to just sacrifice "a little freedom?" Like Lenny put it, never the fuck mind why I want a gun. Never the fuck mind why I want to associate. Never the fuck mind why I want to speak freely. It is our right.And yet we have the Patriot Act which infringes on our freedoms..... go figure....... Exactly, we've given up enough.yeah i dont see many politicians rushing to get rid of that shit anytime soon. then again these people live in upper class gated communities with bodyguards armed to the teeth and are exempt from anything they pass, not a bad gig if you can get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbo Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) I'm just gonna copy and paste what i said three months ago in the Charleston shooting thread. There was at least an attempt to this this time around, (a small one and local one at that) which I guess is progress. Keep in mind I'm hardly the most politically informed person in the world, but what the fuck? Guess I'll take a stab at it again.I'm onboard with easy access to guns being a big part of the problem, but I've always felt the bigger issue that no one seems to talk about is how we essentially make these lunatics rock stars in the media. These acts are usually committed by shunned, anti-social nerd lingers who are so miserable from their everyday lives, desperate to make a name for themselves. And time and time again we show them a quick way to make a name for themselves, as well as "getting back" at the people who "wronged" them on top of that. It's a psycho's wet dream. And hey, maybe they can even make the cover of Rolling Stone! Better than just sucking the barrel of a gun like a lollipop in the dark corners of their basements like the good ol days, am I right? Those Columbine fucks have their own Wikipedia page with full biographies, same with the Virginia Tech whack job, but nobody can name a single victim from those shootings off the top of their heads. That's fucking sad, but just as equally mind blowing.Tl;dr talk about the issue at hand and stop media hyping the pepretrators' whole life stories. All the stories add up the same anyways, they're fucked up outcasts who are fucked up in the head. Period. That to me is just as an important lesson we should be learning by now. Edited October 3, 2015 by Bobbo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I'm just gonna copy and paste what i said three months ago in the Charleston shooting thread. There was at least an attempt to this this time around, (a small one and local one at that) which I guess is progress. Keep in mind I'm hardly the most politically informed person in the world, but what the fuck? Guess I'll take a stab at it again.I'm onboard with easy access to guns being a big part of the problem, but I've always felt the bigger issue that no one seems to talk about is how we essentially make these lunatics rock stars in the media. These acts are usually committed by shunned, anti-social nerd lingers who are so miserable from their everyday lives, desperate to make a name for themselves. And time and time again we show them a quick way to make a name for themselves, as well as "getting back" at the people who "wronged" them on top of that. It's a psycho's wet dream. And hey, maybe they can even make the cover of Rolling Stone! Better than just sucking the barrel of a gun like a lollipop in the dark corners of their basements like the good ol days, am I right? Those Columbine fucks have their own Wikipedia page with full biographies, same with the Virginia Tech whack job, but nobody can name a single victim from those shootings off the top of their heads. That's fucking sad, but just as equally mind blowing.Tl;dr talk about the issue at hand and stop media hyping the pepretrators' whole life stories. All the stories add up the same anyways, they're fucked up outcasts who are fucked up in the head. Period. That to me is just as an important lesson we should be learning by now.Only issue is that mass-shooters/killers are made celebrities in other nations as well. Here in Canada we have several well known mass murderers, but that hasn't resulted in similar gun deaths. The primary difference between the United States and other developed nations is the ease of access to firearms. Sure, there are other qualifiers, but no other developed nation has similar access to guns as the United States. I don't think banning various weapons is the answer either. My thoughts are that the greater the firepower/killing potential the greater the regulatory scrutiny. If you want a 9mm hand gun for protection, fine, then get a background check, apply for a standard gun license, and follow the standard cooling off period. Want an assault rifle with a 50 bullet clip? That should require passing a handwritten test (like those required for a car), a four hour tutorial on gun safety, an enhanced license, and gun registration. It makes no sense that guns with various killing capacities are treated as equal in terms of social responsibility. If you want to rent a 12 passenger van, having a standard driver's license will do. If you want something bigger, that requires a different form of license. It would be great if guns were regulated like how we cars and trucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) I think it's just a matter of how much time it takes for America to let go, cause when you make that shit illegal, less people die. This is a fact.It comes with the price of freedom, but logic can't be brushed aside like that. There's enough proof something needs to be changed in that regard.Just to be clear, I have no idea what it's like to live in America, only visited there years ago. It's just an outsider's observation. Edited October 4, 2015 by Rovim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) I'm just gonna copy and paste what i said three months ago in the Charleston shooting thread. There was at least an attempt to this this time around, (a small one and local one at that) which I guess is progress. Keep in mind I'm hardly the most politically informed person in the world, but what the fuck? Guess I'll take a stab at it again.I'm onboard with easy access to guns being a big part of the problem, but I've always felt the bigger issue that no one seems to talk about is how we essentially make these lunatics rock stars in the media. These acts are usually committed by shunned, anti-social nerd lingers who are so miserable from their everyday lives, desperate to make a name for themselves. And time and time again we show them a quick way to make a name for themselves, as well as "getting back" at the people who "wronged" them on top of that. It's a psycho's wet dream. And hey, maybe they can even make the cover of Rolling Stone! Better than just sucking the barrel of a gun like a lollipop in the dark corners of their basements like the good ol days, am I right? Those Columbine fucks have their own Wikipedia page with full biographies, same with the Virginia Tech whack job, but nobody can name a single victim from those shootings off the top of their heads. That's fucking sad, but just as equally mind blowing.Tl;dr talk about the issue at hand and stop media hyping the pepretrators' whole life stories. All the stories add up the same anyways, they're fucked up outcasts who are fucked up in the head. Period. That to me is just as an important lesson we should be learning by now.Only issue is that mass-shooters/killers are made celebrities in other nations as well. Here in Canada we have several well known mass murderers, but that hasn't resulted in similar gun deaths. The primary difference between the United States and other developed nations is the ease of access to firearms. Sure, there are other qualifiers, but no other developed nation has similar access to guns as the United States. I don't think banning various weapons is the answer either. My thoughts are that the greater the firepower/killing potential the greater the regulatory scrutiny. If you want a 9mm hand gun for protection, fine, then get a background check, apply for a standard gun license, and follow the standard cooling off period. Want an assault rifle with a 50 bullet clip? That should require passing a handwritten test (like those required for a car), a four hour tutorial on gun safety, an enhanced license, and gun registration. It makes no sense that guns with various killing capacities are treated as equal in terms of social responsibility. If you want to rent a 12 passenger van, having a standard driver's license will do. If you want something bigger, that requires a different form of license. It would be great if guns were regulated like how we cars and trucks. i liked how the police chief yesterday failed to acknowledge the shooters name and not "give him the privilege" Edited October 4, 2015 by bran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 In my opinion it's just a matter of how much time it takes for America to let go, cause when you make that shit illegal, less people die. This is a fact.It comes with the price of freedom, but logic can't be brushed aside like that. There's enough proof something needs to change in that regard.Just to be clear, I have no idea what it's like to live in America, only visited there years ago. It's just an outsider's observation.This, no guns, no people getting shot. It's that fucking simple and anything else is a distraction.These are devices designed purely for the purpose of driving projectiles into living tissue. I can't emphasise how grateful I am to have grown up in a part of the world where these things are not commonplace, and I don't think I'm any less free of an individual because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris1989 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Can I be the first to blame the parents?Modern parenting teaching kids they're special just hides them away from the real world, and then when things get tough (read get real) then meltdown and do this shit.I remember the gun spree kid that was filming videos of him bitching about girls at school not liking him. Can't remember which shooting as there have been so many, but poor little buttercup went on a gun rampage as he couldn't get laid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Girls at school didnt him?!? Do you know how long it took for me to crack my first case, i bought that girl so many Mars bars its untrue, i even went out and got her Mums Superkings, i sat through the Little Mermaid and everything...STILL didnt get nothing! I had to take a bird round the back of the science block just to get a peck on the lips! I was like why'd you go all that way just for that and she goes 'i dont wannabe seen with one of you lot in public!' Cheers! Its important to maintain a sense of humour about these things i suppose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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