What do you think of Axl Rose as a songwriter?

[RussTCB]

...I remember Ashba talking in his most interesting interview about Axl imo, about how Axl played him many, many unreleased songs and his reaction was "this is amazing, why don't you release it?" like Sebastian with Democracy....

Gotta disagree with this point wholeheartedly.

I can't stand anything DJs ever written that I've heard and I'm not much for Bach's solo output. On top of that, both of them were benefitting from Axl in some way when they said things like that. So their thoughts on his music doesn't mean much to me to be honest. On the other hand, people with a proven track record in the music industry like Jimmy Iovine & Bob Ezrin have said quite the opposite about the CD-era music.

I like Axl as a songwriter and I like most of Chinese Democracy. I'm just not ready to put him on the Mount Rushmore of music based on what DJ Ashba & Sebastian Bach say about a bunch of music I haven't heard.

[JaxTeller]

November Rain, Estranged, Breakdown , Madagascar and above all COMA.So many emotions,deep songs about life,love, loneliness. Man, Axl is a fucking great writer! I agree that the CD lyrics cannot be compared with the other songs,'cause the chemistry between Axl and Izzy is not the same between Axl and Pitman or Stinson..

[Len Cnut]

Singer - Exceptional

Frontman - Very Good

Lyrics/Songwriting - Average...often fucking dreadful.

As a person - I don't think i really know him, I mean there's a lot of info out there and public bits of recorded behaviour but if you think about it, giving him the benefit of the doubt, they are few and far between and they are in moments of extraordinary pressure sometimes i.e. performing in front of a few thousand people...but i don't think thats any excuse for being a cunt and a twat, which is what i think he is, judging strictly on his behaviour and things he says publicly, i think he's a lot less intelligent than he and a lot of his fans think he is and shows very very little in terms of having an appealling or engaging personality. Once again, judging strictly on the basis of what I've seen of him publicly, I'm still charitable enough to not claim my minute knowledge of him as necessarily an accurate depiction of what he's like. He does seem a reasonably immense kind of bellend though, i certainly don't think he is a creative genius of any kind as I've sometimes heard thrown around about him, quite the opposite actually. He appears to be quite charmless.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Rovim]

I think in some ways he's right though. He found the right songs for CD. You've got the songs which are the core that were toured and tested. But then you have shots are the current market with Shackler's and If the World. Then you have some future songs like Scraped and Sorry. But thematically he has to stay inside the GNR world. That's what CD became, his side of the feud. That was the market he was given. That was the essence of the project in the end.

but he could have another CD stacked with similar tracks, further on down the rabbit hole? But he seemed like he had come out of all that. Seemed not as angry or unhappy anymore. Fun time Axl at Vegas rocking the hits. Eating Chili Burgers giving zero fucks. His dictator demons were exorcised by the release of CD.

Would he really put out a cd of CD type songs now in full vampire slayer in vegas mode?

"livin' the dream"

Or has he been working on the follow up with Fortus since before CD came out. Time is irrelevant. Axl could have finished II and be working on a self titled record.

A very problematic post. I'll think about it and come back with a short essay. I need more weed. I have many thoughts on the matter.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Rovim

[Len Cnut]

I think in some ways he's right though. He found the right songs for CD. You've got the songs which are the core that were toured and tested. But then you have shots are the current market with Shackler's and If the World. Then you have some future songs like Scraped and Sorry. But thematically he has to stay inside the GNR world. That's what CD became, his side of the feud. That was the market he was given. That was the essence of the project in the end.

but he could have another CD stacked with similar tracks, further on down the rabbit hole? But he seemed like he had come out of all that. Seemed not as angry or unhappy anymore. Fun time Axl at Vegas rocking the hits. Eating Chili Burgers giving zero fucks. His dictator demons were exorcised by the release of CD.

Would he really put out a cd of CD type songs now in full vampire slayer in vegas mode?

"livin' the dream"

Or has he been working on the follow up with Fortus since before CD came out. Time is irrelevant. Axl could have finished II and be working on a self titled record.

A very problematic post. I'll think about it and come back with a short essay. I need more weed. I have many thoughts on the matter.

[wasted]

Axl did say petty dictators around the world was the reason why CD existed. So maybe it's not about what was expected. I think Axl admited CD was about the making of CD in parts. It seems to justify itself a lot. One theory is that CD was a stand alone record, then there was another record that maybe was another record outside of those themes. Maybe it's not as "gnr" or UYI esque. But Axl said it was pretty similar just meaner, nastier in parts. But what most people would want is something a little more accessible and hard rock than CD not something heavier. But in Vegas Axl has morphed into the Kenny Powers of rock n roll not in sync with the angry bitter defiance or the rationalizing condescension of CD. So how's he going to rep CD II - Revenge of the Doom

[Rovim]

I like Axl as a songwriter and I like most of Chinese Democracy. I'm just not ready to put him on the Mount Rushmore of music based on what DJ Ashba & Sebastian Bach say about a bunch of music I haven't heard.

Only I didn't put him on the mount. I said he's a great songwriter. I don't compare what he says with his music to what Jimi or The Beatles did cause I don't need to. Apples to oranges.

Besides, others said there is a lot of great unreleased material. This is nothing new. Brian May said it years ago, classic rock talked about Atlas Shrugged and Catcher years before Chinese was released. There are songs there from the same time period. And Robin has said fairly recently that some of his favorite guitar moments are not even on Chinese, and said multiple times he wrote many, many songs with Axl.

Paul is credited with 5 songs I think. Big guns for the most part. Catcher, There Was A Time, Prostitute, and some rockers like I.R.S he helped with. And he doesn't tour. I think songs come to him easily or song ideas that inspire Axl.

Josh Freese said there was a chart of quality and he wrote 4 or 5 songs. Only 1 made Chinese and every song he wrote was on the AAA column of the chart.

So I think it's safe to assume he does have a lot of good shit recorded and ready to go. Even Brain wrote songs that are considered AAA material.

The dude that did the orchestration for Prostitute, Marco Beltrami said his favorite song he worked on was Seven I believe.

Tom Zutaut said Atlas Shrugged was the closest thing to a single.

The issue here is not lack of good music imo.

If he always viewed Chinese as a double, and he hasn't released a bad album in your opinion, why would you doubt there is enough good shit there for at least another album? nothing the man released made me doubt him as an artist.

And why would he lie about an album that is done for a long time? will only bring another shitstorm on his ass.

The reason is probably cause he wants to release the second half of the biggest project of his professional life.

But as always, if it comes, it will come only when Axl feels it's ready and the conditions are right in his opinion for a release cause albums for him are the main goal as an artist. Something Slash doesn't share with him.

So it's got a lot of meaning attached to it, and he's insecure. Doesn't mean he's not a great songwriter that has a lot of good material in his vault.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Rovim

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

he really needs to release some of this stuff

[Rustycage]

Not really a fan of the songs that are heavily Axl involved. Just sing.

[DieselDaisy]

Not really a fan of the songs that are heavily Axl involved. Just sing.

I think Gilby is a better songwriter, don't you?

[RussTCB]

I like Axl as a songwriter and I like most of Chinese Democracy. I'm just not ready to put him on the Mount Rushmore of music based on what DJ Ashba & Sebastian Bach say about a bunch of music I haven't heard.

Only I didn't put him on the mount. I said he's a great songwriter. I don't compare what he says with his music to what Jimi or The Beatles did cause I don't need to. Apples to oranges.

Besides, others said there is a lot of great unreleased material. This is nothing new. Brian May said it years ago, classic rock talked about Atlas Shrugged and Catcher years before Chinese was released. There are songs there from the same time period. And Robin has said fairly recently that some of his favorite guitar moments are not even on Chinese, and said multiple times he wrote many, many songs with Axl.

Paul is credited with 5 songs I think. Big guns for the most part. Catcher, There Was A Time, Prostitute, and some rockers like I.R.S he helped with. And he doesn't tour. I think songs come to him easily or song ideas that inspire Axl.

Josh Freese said there was a chart of quality and he wrote 4 or 5 songs. Only 1 made Chinese and every song he wrote was on the AAA column of the chart.

So I think it's safe to assume he does have a lot of good shit recorded and ready to go. Even Brain wrote songs that are considered AAA material.

The dude that did the orchestration for Prostitute, Marco Beltrami said his favorite song he worked on was Seven I believe.

Tom Zutaut said Atlas Shrugged was the closest thing to a single.

The issue here is not lack of good music imo.

If he always viewed Chinese as a double, and he hasn't released a bad album in your opinion, why would you doubt there is enough good shit there for at least another album? nothing the man released made me doubt him as an artist.

And why would he lie about an album that is done for a long time? will only bring another shitstorm on his ass.

The reason is probably cause he wants to release the second half of the biggest project of his professional life.

But as always, if it comes, it will come only when Axl feels it's ready and the conditions are right in his opinion for a release cause albums for him are the main goal as an artist. Something Slash doesn't share with him.

So it's got a lot of meaning attached to it, and he's insecure. Doesn't mean he's not a great songwriter that has a lot of good material in his vault.

My overall point is this: if there's so much material we haven't heard and it's all so great, then why haven't we heard it?

I only picked on Baz & Ashba because those were the 2 examples given for proof as to how good the (hopefully) forthcoming material is.

As I said, I like CD. So if the material that's left is "only" that good, it's fine by me. However, I'm currently in a state of having no idea if or when I'll ever hear any of it.

[Rovim]

My overall point is this: if there's so much material we haven't heard and it's all so great, then why haven't we heard it?

Cause it's not 2016 yet.

Seriously? because of the weight of the Gn'R name, his insecurities, self importance, the current musical climate and the label, his own need to present it in a grand way, a costly way, laziness, perfectionism that stems from a genuine need to leave behind him music that will stand the test of time and not tarnish the legacy and prove he could do it on his own.

He said he was always late. It was always like this. Now that there are no people in his band with a real say, and he's rich as shit, it makes things even worse. And he really cares about what people think of him, the band, and his music imo.

He admitted he or people that work for him read Guns forums. Remember what he said about how he was surprised people were not into Brian May's Catcher solo. Then he removed it.

And finally, it's very difficult for him to say to himself it's done and release it cause that means he won't have a chance to improve it. No more takes.

At least, those are some of the reasons as I see it.

Lunacy... it gets in the way. But in the words of Anthony Kiedis, from the album Californication: "destruction leads to a very rough road, but it also breeds creation."

How long? how long? It's a big machine, it's a big machine.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Rovim

[Rustycage]

Not really a fan of the songs that are heavily Axl involved. Just sing.

I think Gilby is a better songwriter, don't you?

Do you have Gilby tattooed on you somewhere?

[Nosaj Thing]

Pawnshop Guitars is a vastly superior album than Chinese Democracy. Shits on it entirely.

Just sayin'

[DieselDaisy]

Not really a fan of the songs that are heavily Axl involved. Just sing.

I think Gilby is a better songwriter, don't you?

Do you have Gilby tattooed on you somewhere?

I was taking the piss! Although I do agree with this,

Pawnshop Guitars is a vastly superior album than Chinese Democracy. Shits on it entirely.

Just sayin'

[Dr. Who]

Pawnshop Guitars is a vastly superior album than Chinese Democracy. Shits on it entirely.

Just sayin'

This. I actually really love Duff's "Believe in Me" and think a lot of songs on that could've made great GN'R songs, too.

[Apollo]

Great rock songwriter.

Terrible music producer.

he really needs to release some of this stuff

Exactly.

[nproducing]

I think he is a talented songwriter and his piano ballads prove it. ignoring the terrible production of cd, the quality dropped a bit due to the fact that he doesnt play guitar and is dependent on guitar players if he wants to write hard rock music. in that scenario you have to spend time with the band in order to get it right. he did that in the past and he paved the way for appetite for destruction as a writer/cowriter. then he started becoming a hermit and writing with gnr through phone calls and emails. i think it takes him so long to produce snogs because of this fact. if he simplified his music to blues/jazz/fusion songs he'd produce some amazing songs on his own.

Edited October 16, 2015 by nproducing

[tkarmy]

He is definitely one of my favourites I mean songs like November rain, Estranged, This I love and Prostitute are brilliant. But not concise... Axl doesn't do concise songwriting like most tradional great songwriters we love (ie beatles, stones etc) which is what I like about him but also which hinders him just what he did with Chinese. And he certainly isn't churning out solo written tunes... that we've heard.

But the dude clearly isn't churning them out on his own. He is a great collaborator I mean the group written hits are numerous and go without saying. Love his direct yet (for the most part) brilliant lyrics, although there certainly are some cringe worthy ones but name me one lyric writer who hasn't penned some cheese... you can't because none exist. As a vocalist and melody writer, one of the greatest IMO.

But what he doesn't see is that he works way better under pressure. THere are quotes from him saying he felt rushed through the AFD, the Illusions, forced on tour etc etc. He never feels ready. But he needs time restraints and to be under the gun. Which is why he works well in a equal partnership collaboration with a band, a producer who's got balls and engineers to do their job. As it should be, very few artists can get away with doing it all. And mixing, producing and triming things up aren't his talents.

I do love chinese but it needed some trimming sonically. Just way too much going on. Some artists can get away with that but only with proper engineers and producers creating a sonic landscape... not competitng walls of noise.

Chinese with deadlines and people with balls to tell Axl he was wrong would have been a much better record and would have come out 7 years earlier, which would have saved him so much fucking flack.

[DR DOOM]

Honestly, to write (or have a large hand in writing) even ONE song like November Rain is pretty huge in my book.

I often think to myself, how fucking good a song is November Rain?

I've heard it a billion times, yadadadada etc etc but "overplayed" as it is at the end of the day I really think it's a fucking sublime song and a real jewel in the Guns N Roses crown.

There's a lot of shit you can mock Axl for, but I'll always respect the fuck out of him for songs (besides the more collaborative, band efforts) like November Rain, Breakdown and Estranged.

So yeah, I think he's a pretty fucking awesome songwriter and while not Mike Garson or whoever I love listening to him play the piano...great sound.

[-W.A.R-]

I think one of the best things that I've ever written was maybe the end segment of the song "Coma." It just poured out."

and he did a great job of conveying that on record aswell

he fuckin murdered that shit

[DR DOOM]

I know all of us on the internet are cooler than fuck, but I don't mind admitting that if I came up with (at least) the vocals and piano for Prostitute I would be pretty happy with myself.

[GNRfanMILO]

Just asking, but what if he is not releasing CD2 because he doesnt agree with those lyrics anymore?

It may sound silly, but who knows

[Sisyphus]

One of the best of all time.

[Rustycage]

One of the best of all time.

Disagree. In a collaborative effort he can pull his weight but as a sole songwriter, he's not even close.