Axl vs Reality

[Nick85]

Not sure if anyone saw last week's South Park, but the (brilliant) premise surrounded the shaming of celebrities, and how they go to great lengths to have what they called a "Safe Space" on the internet to protect them from certain truths that they may deem hurtful, protecting them from the below character "Reality". While watching, I couldn't help but think of Axl and Team Brazil, and certain sites that serve as proverbial "Safe Spaces" for GNR and TB.

The latest round of cryptic "woe is me/us vs the world" tweets from GNR, show that something in the media, likely reunion rumors, have FINALLY gotten back to the camp, and ruffled somebodies (Fernando?) feathers. Are they really that disconnected from the fanbase and the world that they're just getting in front of this now, after months of wild rumors and speculation in the media? However lazy and cryptic, it seems to be some kind of response. But is it a hopeful one?

And what about Axl's promise of new music after Vegas? Is that getting swept under the rug like he never said anything at all? I think Axl and TB need to crawl out from their Safe Space and give the fans the proper update they deserve before Reality catches up with them.

"Reality" as seen on South Park...

Edited November 10, 2015 by sofine11

[ZoSoRose]

Why?

[Słash]

When?

[maynard]

Reality wins. Flawless victory.

[Nosaj Thing]

Not going to read that.

[RussTCB]

Not sure if anyone saw last week's South Park, but the (brilliant) premise surrounded around the shaming of celebrities, and how they go to great lengths to have what they called a "Safe Space" on the internet to protect them from certain truths that they may deem hurtful, protecting them from the below character "Reality". While watching, I couldn't help but think of Axl and Team Brazil, and certain sites that serve as proverbial "Safe Spaces" for GNR and TB.

The latest round of cryptic "woe is me/us vs the world" tweets from GNR, show that something in the media, likely reunion rumors, have FINALLY gotten back to the camp, and ruffled somebodies (Fernando?) feathers. Are they really that disconnected from the fanbase and the world that they're just getting in front of this now, after months of wild rumors and speculation in the media? However lazy and cryptic, it seems to be some kind of response. But is it a hopeful one?

And what about Axl's promise of new music after Vegas? Is that getting swept under the rug like he never said anything at all? I think Axl and TB need to crawl out from their Safe Space and give the fans the proper update they deserve.

"Reality" as seen on South Park...

Yes, I definitely think they're that disconnected from the fan base.

I also happen to think the whole "woe is me" attitude is the absolute worst thing they're could have done, but yet here we are.

[gnfnrs1972]

Quit pickin on Axl. He needs his space. Poor fella went through all this heartache to give you a new album, tours, even a new band every so often. Hi Axl, Hi Axl, Hi Axl!

[Russel Nash]

Hi Axl, can you please release some new music?

[Nick85]

Not sure if anyone saw last week's South Park, but the (brilliant) premise surrounded around the shaming of celebrities, and how they go to great lengths to have what they called a "Safe Space" on the internet to protect them from certain truths that they may deem hurtful, protecting them from the below character "Reality". While watching, I couldn't help but think of Axl and Team Brazil, and certain sites that serve as proverbial "Safe Spaces" for GNR and TB.

The latest round of cryptic "woe is me/us vs the world" tweets from GNR, show that something in the media, likely reunion rumors, have FINALLY gotten back to the camp, and ruffled somebodies (Fernando?) feathers. Are they really that disconnected from the fanbase and the world that they're just getting in front of this now, after months of wild rumors and speculation in the media? However lazy and cryptic, it seems to be some kind of response. But is it a hopeful one?

And what about Axl's promise of new music after Vegas? Is that getting swept under the rug like he never said anything at all? I think Axl and TB need to crawl out from their Safe Space and give the fans the proper update they deserve.

"Reality" as seen on South Park...

Yes, I definitely think they're that disconnected from the fan base.

I also happen to think the whole "woe is me" attitude is the absolute worst thing they're could have done, but yet here we are.

It's just bizarre that there's this strange feeling of "us against them" with the hardcore fanbase and Team Brazil. Anyone who isn't an "everthing is awesome!" wild eyed supporter, is singled out as a complainer, idiot or detractor and fuck us for not understanding their secret ongoing battles for whatever. Disconnect is one thing, contempt for the fans is another.

[RussTCB]

Yes, I definitely think they're that disconnected from the fan base.

I also happen to think the whole "woe is me" attitude is the absolute worst thing they're could have done, but yet here we are.

It's just bizarre that there's this strange feeling of "us against them" with the hardcore fanbase and Team Brazil. Anyone who isn't an "everthing is awesome!" wild eyed supporter, is singled out as a complainer, idiot or detractor and fuck us for not understanding their secret ongoing battles for whatever. Disconnect is one thing, contempt for the fans is another.

All I can say is that I completely agree.

[ChineseIRS]

Not sure if anyone saw last week's South Park, but the (brilliant) premise surrounded around the shaming of celebrities, and how they go to great lengths to have what they called a "Safe Space" on the internet to protect them from certain truths that they may deem hurtful, protecting them from the below character "Reality". While watching, I couldn't help but think of Axl and Team Brazil, and certain sites that serve as proverbial "Safe Spaces" for GNR and TB.

The latest round of cryptic "woe is me/us vs the world" tweets from GNR, show that something in the media, likely reunion rumors, have FINALLY gotten back to the camp, and ruffled somebodies (Fernando?) feathers. Are they really that disconnected from the fanbase and the world that they're just getting in front of this now, after months of wild rumors and speculation in the media? However lazy and cryptic, it seems to be some kind of response. But is it a hopeful one?

And what about Axl's promise of new music after Vegas? Is that getting swept under the rug like he never said anything at all? I think Axl and TB need to crawl out from their Safe Space and give the fans the proper update they deserve.

"Reality" as seen on South Park...

Yes, I definitely think they're that disconnected from the fan base.

I also happen to think the whole "woe is me" attitude is the absolute worst thing they're could have done, but yet here we are.

It's just bizarre that there's this strange feeling of "us against them" with the hardcore fanbase and Team Brazil. Anyone who isn't an "everthing is awesome!" wild eyed supporter, is singled out as a complainer, idiot or detractor and fuck us for not understanding their secret ongoing battles for whatever. Disconnect is one thing, contempt for the fans is another.

And thats what has essentially made the last 15 years a failure in the grand scheme of things.

[Nick85]

Yes, I definitely think they're that disconnected from the fan base.

I also happen to think the whole "woe is me" attitude is the absolute worst thing they're could have done, but yet here we are.

It's just bizarre that there's this strange feeling of "us against them" with the hardcore fanbase and Team Brazil. Anyone who isn't an "everthing is awesome!" wild eyed supporter, is singled out as a complainer, idiot or detractor and fuck us for not understanding their secret ongoing battles for whatever. Disconnect is one thing, contempt for the fans is another.

All I can say is that I completely agree.

What really annoys me is how once in great while, while Fernando actually speaks, his sentiments are always "If you only knew blah blah blah". Well, you know, you could tell us. Hell, something like "In negotiations for the next record, hopefully all goes well." would at least show us that there is, at the very least, some effort and shits being given behind the scenes.

As it stands, it seems like sporadic tours which basically serve as glorified vacations for the powers that be, is all that they care about. And it begs the question: Are TB even fans of Guns N' Roses?

[downzy]

I think there's a misconception on both sides. On our side, I think we over-exaggerate the impact of our criticisms of the band, Axl, management. While there might have been a time where heavy criticism was taken seriously, I think we're long past that. The narrative that the band and management rejects criticism outright or disagrees with every gripe levelled towards them is overcooked. Granted, they haven't done themselves any favours the few times they've spoken. Del's journal entries back in 2007 and 2008 where he essentially called out anyone who had any grievance, whether legitimate or not, was not a great PR move. But having spoken to Beta and Fernando, I can tell you that they understand the frustration and disappointment and don't really hold a grudge against those who want more from their favourite band. What they do take issue with is the ugliness that comprises a very small percentage of the hardcore fanbase. I think it's a valid point. Voicing your displeasure or frustration about Axl, the band, management, or other fans is one thing. But we cross a line when we speak of certain people as though they deserve outright contempt or hatred.

On the other side of the coin, we have, from my vantage point, an operation that's so insular that I wonder if faulty convictions ever go unchallenged. It can't be easy visiting a place like this and seeing strangers shit on you all the time, but at the same time, we are the band's "political base," and much of what we have to say is valid and should be heard. We're made to feel as if we don't matter at times and that's the wrong way to treat those who have stood by for so long. In the end all we want is to see Axl and the band successful and I think that concept gets lost on the powers at be sometimes.

[Nick85]

I think there's a misconception on both sides. On our side, I think we over-exaggerate the impact of our criticisms of the band, Axl, management. While there might have been a time where heavy criticism was taken seriously, I think we're long past that. The narrative that the band and management rejects criticism outright or disagrees with every gripe levelled towards them is overcooked. Granted, they haven't done themselves any favours the few times they've spoken. Del's journal entries back in 2007 and 2008 where he essentially called out anyone who had any grievance, whether legitimate or not, was not a great PR move. But having spoken to Beta and Fernando, I can tell you that they understand the frustration and disappointment and don't really hold a grudge against those who want more from their favourite band. What they do take issue with is the ugliness that comprises a very small percentage of the hardcore fanbase. I think it's a valid point. Voicing your displeasure or frustration about Axl, the band, management, or other fans is one thing. But we cross a line when we speak of certain people as though they deserve outright contempt or hatred.

On the other side of the coin, we have, from my vantage point, an operation that's so insular that I wonder if faulty convictions ever go unchallenged. It can't be easy visiting a place like this and seeing strangers shit on you all the time, but at the same time, we are the band's "political base," and much of what we have to say is valid and should be heard. We're made to feel as if we don't matter at times and that's the wrong way to treat those who have stood by for so long. In the end all we want is to see Axl and the band successful and I think that concept gets lost on the powers at be sometimes.

Great post, and I largely agree. It's reassuring to hear that they understand our collective frustrations, however, whether it's taken seriously I think is up for debate. Again, one or two quick sentences regarding the status of the next album would go MILES with us. Even if it's as simple as saying it's "on the horizon" in some way would put gas in our proverbial tanks for a good while.

I think they need to understand that when Axl says things like how the priority will be shifting to dropping the next album after Vegas...only to have radio silence on the matter for over a year and a half following is, simply put, not cool. Of course we're getting impatient now.

There's an old saying in theater: "If you show a gun in Act 1, you must shoot it in Act 2." Shoot the f*cking gun Axl.

[Little EMO Annie]

Great artists feel their emotions more so than regular folks. And I can't imagine being in the public eye being scrutinized all the time. Whether it's about your looks or any career decisions. The tabloid industry has created such an environment of hate. It' could almost be considered emotional terrorism. At the end of the day Axl and GNR and TB don't owe any of us one goddamn thing.

Whatever they are planning right now is their business. Maybe they just want to protect it for a little while longer. Like a newborn baby. It always makes me a little sad whenI go to art exhibits with Impressinionist paintings. VanGogh and Gauguin both died essentially bankrupt and now people pay obscene amounts of money for their paintings. I just wish they could have known how great their art was when they were alive.

[Nick85]

At the end of the day Axl and GNR and TB don't owe any of us one goddamn thing.

And at the end of the day, that's a shitty, shitty way to go about life.

[RussTCB]

...At the end of the day Axl and GNR and TB don't owe any of us one goddamn thing....Whatever they are planning right now is their business...

At no point has anyone said Axl/GN'R/TB owe us anything. On top of that, what sofine11 has done here has created a great topic for discussion. Please don't derail the discussion with posts like this.

[Nick85]

Nothing derails a discussion more than "Well, uh, they don't OWE us anything..." Well, no, they don't. But let's say that you're a fan of a team who is on a loosing streak and whose management seems utterly apathetic. If you voice your opinion about how things need to change within that camp do people balk about not being "owed" anything. Nope, because fandom is seldom a one way street and only certain individuals who stand to gain from nonstop cheerleading do exactly that. Only in the world of GNR is that looked down upon.

Why is that? And who is perpetuating those sentiments?

Edited November 10, 2015 by sofine11

[Mr. Dude]

Axl beats reality everytime. He's undefeated.

[Orsys]

At the end of the day Axl and GNR and TB don't owe any of us one goddamn thing.

And at the end of the day, that's a shitty, shitty way to go about life.

I actually believe something is owed. I don't encourage people to become members of my website, hope that they will attend future concerts. But if I did hope for that then I would owe enough information to allow my "fans" to continue at that level of relationship.

But no problem here. In December when I do my first "retirement" I am going on Axl time. Everything will be right on schedule.

[Nick85]

It's typical of Axl to hype things up, and then be astounded when his fanbase expects follow through on some level.

Remember during the Axl chats when he hyped up Soul Monster & Atlas Shrugged, and teased a possible release date the very next year? So do I. I also remember several months later during that lame Del James interview where he called anyone looking for a release date "idiots". Nevermind the years leading up to Chinese where we were promised multiple albums once the ball got rolling.

So why shoudln't Axl not follow through on "looking very seriously" at putting the next album out after Vegas ended? While we're at it, fuck us for scratching our heads wondering where the hell it is in Fall of 2015. And on we go...

Edited November 10, 2015 by sofine11

[downzy]

I think there's a misconception on both sides. On our side, I think we over-exaggerate the impact of our criticisms of the band, Axl, management. While there might have been a time where heavy criticism was taken seriously, I think we're long past that. The narrative that the band and management rejects criticism outright or disagrees with every gripe levelled towards them is overcooked. Granted, they haven't done themselves any favours the few times they've spoken. Del's journal entries back in 2007 and 2008 where he essentially called out anyone who had any grievance, whether legitimate or not, was not a great PR move. But having spoken to Beta and Fernando, I can tell you that they understand the frustration and disappointment and don't really hold a grudge against those who want more from their favourite band. What they do take issue with is the ugliness that comprises a very small percentage of the hardcore fanbase. I think it's a valid point. Voicing your displeasure or frustration about Axl, the band, management, or other fans is one thing. But we cross a line when we speak of certain people as though they deserve outright contempt or hatred.

On the other side of the coin, we have, from my vantage point, an operation that's so insular that I wonder if faulty convictions ever go unchallenged. It can't be easy visiting a place like this and seeing strangers shit on you all the time, but at the same time, we are the band's "political base," and much of what we have to say is valid and should be heard. We're made to feel as if we don't matter at times and that's the wrong way to treat those who have stood by for so long. In the end all we want is to see Axl and the band successful and I think that concept gets lost on the powers at be sometimes.

Great post, and I largely agree. It's reassuring to hear that they understand our collective frustrations, however, whether it's taken seriously I think is up for debate. Again, one or two quick sentences regarding the status of the next album would go MILES with us. Even if it's as simple as saying it's "on the horizon" in some way would put gas in our proverbial tanks for a good while.

I think they need to understand that when Axl says things like how the priority will be shifting to dropping the next album after Vegas...only to have radio silence on the matter for over a year and a half following is, simply put, not cool. Of course we're getting impatient now.

There's an old saying in theater: "If you show a gun in Act 1, you must shoot it in Act 2." Shoot the f*cking gun Axl.

I'm not sure if the calculation is based on how seriously they take our concerns, but what they can feasibly do about them. Ultimately it all starts and stops with Axl. Also, don't forget there are other players involved like lawyers, record labels, public relation firms, etc. If things are being lined up for 2016, I guess someone involved has requested that nothing be made official until they're ready to go. Frustrating for us fans, but ultimately it's their choice.

And let's put things in perspective: a year and a half is a drop in the bucket compared to what fans have faced before. If I recall properly, it was a solid four years in the late 1990s before fans got any word from Axl about what was going on. It was another three years between Philly 2002 and Axl showing up at a Korn concert in 2006. The sad reality for us fans is he just isn't as transparent artist when it comes to the status of his work. It is what it is and as someone who has been a fan since 1989, it's kind of par for the course. Not trying to justify it, but it is what it is.

At the end of the day Axl and GNR and TB don't owe any of us one goddamn thing.

And at the end of the day, that's a shitty, shitty way to go about life.

I actually believe something is owed. I don't encourage people to become members of my website, hope that they will attend future concerts. But if I did hope for that then I would owe enough information to allow my "fans" to continue at that level of relationship.

Good point. It's why I never signed up to their fan club. If they operated like every other band and produced new music and provided fans what they want, then it would make sense. But there was very little return on fan's investment for those who bought in the first couple of rounds. I think Nightrain has tremendous potential, but perhaps launched premature considering the current status of the band.

[Nick85]

I think there's a misconception on both sides. On our side, I think we over-exaggerate the impact of our criticisms of the band, Axl, management. While there might have been a time where heavy criticism was taken seriously, I think we're long past that. The narrative that the band and management rejects criticism outright or disagrees with every gripe levelled towards them is overcooked. Granted, they haven't done themselves any favours the few times they've spoken. Del's journal entries back in 2007 and 2008 where he essentially called out anyone who had any grievance, whether legitimate or not, was not a great PR move. But having spoken to Beta and Fernando, I can tell you that they understand the frustration and disappointment and don't really hold a grudge against those who want more from their favourite band. What they do take issue with is the ugliness that comprises a very small percentage of the hardcore fanbase. I think it's a valid point. Voicing your displeasure or frustration about Axl, the band, management, or other fans is one thing. But we cross a line when we speak of certain people as though they deserve outright contempt or hatred.

On the other side of the coin, we have, from my vantage point, an operation that's so insular that I wonder if faulty convictions ever go unchallenged. It can't be easy visiting a place like this and seeing strangers shit on you all the time, but at the same time, we are the band's "political base," and much of what we have to say is valid and should be heard. We're made to feel as if we don't matter at times and that's the wrong way to treat those who have stood by for so long. In the end all we want is to see Axl and the band successful and I think that concept gets lost on the powers at be sometimes.

Great post, and I largely agree. It's reassuring to hear that they understand our collective frustrations, however, whether it's taken seriously I think is up for debate. Again, one or two quick sentences regarding the status of the next album would go MILES with us. Even if it's as simple as saying it's "on the horizon" in some way would put gas in our proverbial tanks for a good while.

I think they need to understand that when Axl says things like how the priority will be shifting to dropping the next album after Vegas...only to have radio silence on the matter for over a year and a half following is, simply put, not cool. Of course we're getting impatient now.

There's an old saying in theater: "If you show a gun in Act 1, you must shoot it in Act 2." Shoot the f*cking gun Axl.

I'm not sure if the calculation is based on how seriously they take our concerns, but what they can feasibly do about them. Ultimately it all starts and stops with Axl. Also, don't forget there are other players involved like lawyers, record labels, public relation firms, etc.

And let's put things in perspective: a year and a half is a drop in the bucket compared to what fans have faced before. If I recall properly, it was a solid four years in the late 1990s before fans got any word from Axl about what was going on. It was another three years between Philly 2002 and Axl showing up at a Korn concert in 2006. The sad reality for us fans is he just isn't a transparent artist when it comes to the status of his work. It is what it is and as someone who has been a fan since 1989, it's kind of par for the course. Not trying to justify it, but it is what it is.

You're right that ultimately, everything starts and stops with Axl. It's these teases that come from both him and management, with no follow through that drive me nuts. When Fernando first said he'd be back in a few months with some big news, it was riding on the heals of both Frank & Richard saying something big was happening in 2016. So I'm thinking "Alright, cool, it looks like he'll be back with an album announcement...I can roll with that and wait."

Now, here we are in mid November. Does it seem like an album announcement is right around the corner? Any industry rumblings? I sure don't see any. Don't get me wrong, I will gladly eat crow if, say, tomorrow the official site officially announces it. F*cking gladly. But I just don't see it, and it such a shame, considering this was supposed be the next step after Vegas wrapped up.

[downzy]

I think there's a misconception on both sides. On our side, I think we over-exaggerate the impact of our criticisms of the band, Axl, management. While there might have been a time where heavy criticism was taken seriously, I think we're long past that. The narrative that the band and management rejects criticism outright or disagrees with every gripe levelled towards them is overcooked. Granted, they haven't done themselves any favours the few times they've spoken. Del's journal entries back in 2007 and 2008 where he essentially called out anyone who had any grievance, whether legitimate or not, was not a great PR move. But having spoken to Beta and Fernando, I can tell you that they understand the frustration and disappointment and don't really hold a grudge against those who want more from their favourite band. What they do take issue with is the ugliness that comprises a very small percentage of the hardcore fanbase. I think it's a valid point. Voicing your displeasure or frustration about Axl, the band, management, or other fans is one thing. But we cross a line when we speak of certain people as though they deserve outright contempt or hatred.

On the other side of the coin, we have, from my vantage point, an operation that's so insular that I wonder if faulty convictions ever go unchallenged. It can't be easy visiting a place like this and seeing strangers shit on you all the time, but at the same time, we are the band's "political base," and much of what we have to say is valid and should be heard. We're made to feel as if we don't matter at times and that's the wrong way to treat those who have stood by for so long. In the end all we want is to see Axl and the band successful and I think that concept gets lost on the powers at be sometimes.

Great post, and I largely agree. It's reassuring to hear that they understand our collective frustrations, however, whether it's taken seriously I think is up for debate. Again, one or two quick sentences regarding the status of the next album would go MILES with us. Even if it's as simple as saying it's "on the horizon" in some way would put gas in our proverbial tanks for a good while.

I think they need to understand that when Axl says things like how the priority will be shifting to dropping the next album after Vegas...only to have radio silence on the matter for over a year and a half following is, simply put, not cool. Of course we're getting impatient now.

There's an old saying in theater: "If you show a gun in Act 1, you must shoot it in Act 2." Shoot the f*cking gun Axl.

I'm not sure if the calculation is based on how seriously they take our concerns, but what they can feasibly do about them. Ultimately it all starts and stops with Axl. Also, don't forget there are other players involved like lawyers, record labels, public relation firms, etc.

And let's put things in perspective: a year and a half is a drop in the bucket compared to what fans have faced before. If I recall properly, it was a solid four years in the late 1990s before fans got any word from Axl about what was going on. It was another three years between Philly 2002 and Axl showing up at a Korn concert in 2006. The sad reality for us fans is he just isn't a transparent artist when it comes to the status of his work. It is what it is and as someone who has been a fan since 1989, it's kind of par for the course. Not trying to justify it, but it is what it is.

You're right that ultimately, everything starts and stops with Axl. It's these teases that come from both him and management, with no follow through that drive me nuts. When Fernando first said he'd be back in a few months with some big news, it was riding on the heals of both Frank & Richard saying something big was happening in 2016. So I'm thinking "Alright, cool, it looks like he'll be back with an album announcement...I can roll with that and wait."

Now, here we are in mid November. Does it seem like an album announcement is right around the corner? Any industry rumblings? I sure don't see any. Don't get me wrong, I will gladly eat crow if, say, tomorrow the official site officially announces it. F*cking gladly. But I just don't see it, and it such a shame, considering this was supposed be the next step after Vegas wrapped up.

I have no idea what Fernando has in store, but I highly doubt he's coming back with anything substantial relating to new material/an album. A band name like GNR doesn't reveal huge news via an unofficial fan forum like this one. I am curious what he was thinking when he said there'd be news in two to four months (and to be fair, we're still within that window). If I had to guess, GNR through official channels will make an announcement and he might return to answer questions relating to it. Again, that's an uneducated guess on my part. I haven't reached out to Fernando since August as I doubt he would tell me anything and I've been so busy in my real life that I haven't had the time or inclination.

[alfierose]

On a slightly related note (it's not really worthy of a thread I don't think) I noticed at the weekend that AFD and UYI 1&2 have been added to Amazon Prime Music, they weren't there up until a few weeks back at least. I guess the trio of Axl, Duff and Slash would have to sign that off.