Terrorist attack thread

[Klay]

Sad sad news.

Now people can't even attend a restaurant, a football match, a concert without wondering if they'll get back home safe.

Things are out of control in Europe.

Everybody gets in and out real easy and it has been happening for too long. French born citizens themselves are doing this, they go to terrorist countries, have training there, come back to their country and wait for orders.

Close the borders - now!

Edited November 14, 2015 by Klay

[Iron MikeyJ]

I know a good portion like at least 20% of Americans would just assume round up ever Muslim over here and ship them back to the middle east.

What, all the indians, pakistanis, bangladeshis, sri lankans, malaysians, indonesians, africans...all to the middle east? I can just see Busta Rhymes, Ghostface and Ice Cube all on a plane going 'what the fuck did we do now?!?' Least they'd get a plane ride with Bernard Hopkins and Muhammad Ali I suppose!

I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying that YES a large portion do feel that way. Attacks like this just give them fuel. I'm not up on the current right wing profiling, but if I had to guess, I would say African Americans and Indians would not be shipped back. For one, Americans brought the Africans here, so they will probably be ok. The Indiana are all the best doctors, so I'm sure they can stay as well. But the Irianians, Iraqies, syrians, etc that all claim to be Islamic would be the first to be persecuted.

Which again, I'm only saying this half seriously, it's not my belief. But this situation just put a bunch of gas in the fire.

[Len Cnut]

I know a good portion like at least 20% of Americans would just assume round up ever Muslim over here and ship them back to the middle east.

What, all the indians, pakistanis, bangladeshis, sri lankans, malaysians, indonesians, africans...all to the middle east? I can just see Busta Rhymes, Ghostface and Ice Cube all on a plane going 'what the fuck did we do now?!?' Least they'd get a plane ride with Bernard Hopkins and Muhammad Ali I suppose!

I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying that YES a large portion do feel that way. Attacks like this just give them fuel. I'm not up on the current right wing profiling, but if I had to guess, I would say African Americans and Indians would not be shipped back. For one, Americans brought the Africans here, so they will probably be ok. The Indiana are all the best doctors, so I'm sure they can stay as well. But the Irianians, Iraqies, syrians, etc that all claim to be Islamic would be the first to be persecuted.

Which again, I'm only saying this half seriously, it's not my belief. But this situation just put a bunch of gas in the fire.

I know what you meant, i was just jumping on it for the sake of humourous levity It's also worth pointing out half of Obamas family are muslim.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Georgy Zhukov]

Why do the good Muslims allow this to happen? They're the majority, so why do they not whistleblow on this stuff, and why are they happy to let IS take their towns and force them from their homes?

It is difficult as (sunni) Islam does not possess some 'top-down' hierarchical organisational structure of clergy like Catholicism. It is basically congregational in nature, revolving around, largely independent mosques and locally appointed imans; there is a legalistic tradition but even here, there are various rival schools of scholastic thought and Islamic scholars do not act as a sort of clergy. This all means that it is very difficult to enforce any degree of ideological orthodoxy. What little can be done, has to be centripetal and atomised in nature.

They have their different interpretations. There have been Caliphs in the past, a religious and political successor to Muhammad, but eventually different Caliphs started showing up and it eventually broke down to different factions.

There is no network, they can't police each other, over the centuries there has been rival factions and if you watch the ISIS war closely, it is Muslims they are killing. Not just Shia Muslims, they are killing Kurds who are Sunni, Sunni Syrians loyal to Assad or rebelling against Assad but refuse to join ISIS. They are even at war with al-Qaeda and the Taliban. They are out of control.

The real question that needs to be asked is why are these Middle Eastern governments not launching an all out attack on ISIS? Is it because they expect the very nations that drew their borders (where borders should never be drawn) to save them?

[Gracii Guns]

This is in no way an important aspect of this event in anyway, just a trivial observation:

Genuinely surprised to see how many of my devout atheist friends "praying for Paris".

They make self-edifying statements over their intellectual superiority due to their atheism, then a terrorist attack done in the name of religion causes them to admit to praying.

Its nice that they're claiming to pray and all... But I listen respectfully to their arguments about how there can't be a God, for what feels like all the time, and now they're putting faith in one for a day and I feel as though I can't call them up on it.

Possibly because they're not actually praying and are just jumping on the alliterative hashtag bandwagon.

Live and let live, eh?

Edited November 14, 2015 by Gracii Guns

[Georgy Zhukov]

I know a good portion like at least 20% of Americans would just assume round up ever Muslim over here and ship them back to the middle east.

What, all the indians, pakistanis, bangladeshis, sri lankans, malaysians, indonesians, africans...all to the middle east? I can just see Busta Rhymes, Ghostface and Ice Cube all on a plane going 'what the fuck did we do now?!?' Least they'd get a plane ride with Bernard Hopkins and Muhammad Ali I suppose!

I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying that YES a large portion do feel that way. Attacks like this just give them fuel. I'm not up on the current right wing profiling, but if I had to guess, I would say African Americans and Indians would not be shipped back. For one, Americans brought the Africans here, so they will probably be ok. The Indiana are all the best doctors, so I'm sure they can stay as well. But the Irianians, Iraqies, syrians, etc that all claim to be Islamic would be the first to be persecuted.

Which again, I'm only saying this half seriously, it's not my belief. But this situation just put a bunch of gas in the fire.

You do know that many of those people are here because they are fleeing from terrorist groups such as ISIS, right? I actually know quite a lot of Iranians, some are Muslim some are Ba'hai and they have fled Iran for political or religious reasons.

[SoulMonster]

Someone is claiming that "we" should stop bombing in the Middle East and this problem will go away. Yes, probably.

It seems like the terrorists came back from Syria and wanted to punish France from being involved in that conflict. France's recent involvement in Syria has been to bomb ISIL targets (they started bombing in September this year -- so these terrorist attacks seem to be a reaction to this very recent development). ISIL has managed to establish control over a large part of Syria partly due to the unstable conditions as Syria is involved in its own civil war. The reason why France, and many other Western countries, fight ISIL in the Middle East is, because they are asked to help the local governments/countries who are fighting a losing war against ISIL. And why take the side against ISIL in this regional warfare? Because ISIL is a terrorist organization with numerous civil right abuses. In the words of UN Commision on Human Rights, "[iSIL] seeks to subjugate civilians under its control and dominate every aspect of their lives through terror, indoctrination, and the provision of services to those who obey".

Sure, France could stay away; we could all stay away, and just let they handle this problem themselves. I disagree.

[Len Cnut]

This is in no way an important aspect of this event in anyway, just a trivial observation:

Genuinely surprised to see how many of my devout atheist friends "praying for Paris".

They make self-edifying statements over their intellectual superiority due to their atheism, then a terrorist attack done in the name of religion causes them to admit to praying.

Its nice that they're claiming to pray and all... But I listen respectfully to their arguments about how there can't be a God, for what feels like all the time, and now they're putting faith in one for a day and I feel as though I can't call them up on it.

Possibly because they're not actually praying and are just jumping on the alliterative hashtag bandwagon.

Live and let live, eh?

Bloody fundamentalist

[shades]

No, the real question that needs to be asked is who's going to stop them.

If the region is waiting on the USA to take the lead it will have to wait at least another year+ because right now between John Kerry and our

President they have no clue what they are doing. For that I apologize on behalf of the America spirit that once took the lead to confront such evil.

There is a good argument we even created this jihad against civilized populations, but again, our leadership is out to lunch so don't look for any help

anytime soon.

The idea and theory that only the Muslim world, the non radical majority Muslim world is really the only hope at stopping this is a sound one.

And makes the most sense.

BUT

they are not stepping up to the plate, and unlikely they will.

So the choice is either to face the reality in what needs to be done, and do it,

or these acts of terror in your backyard will continue. there's no third choice.

The entire region had better watch their backs, allowing 100's of thousands of desperate refugees into your countries, there are bound to be some really bad apples sneaking in with them. And at the very least if these millions of people find themselves in further desperation and not being treated fairly in their new

"homes" it will breed new jihadist in their midst.

This isn't a game, and if things like this don't wake you up then nothing will.

This is in no way an important aspect of this event in anyway, just a trivial observation:

Genuinely surprised to see how many of my devout atheist friends "praying for Paris".

"I have been driven to my knees many times by the overwhelming conviction that I had no place else to go.”

Abraham Lincoln

[Georgy Zhukov]

One thing is for certain, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant must be removed, but that isn't going to be easy. Not only they have absorbed the greater parts of Iraq and Syria but they are popping up in Egypt, Libya, the Northern Caucuses, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India. All the powers in the world need to come up with a way to deal with this threat. The problem is that the military powers have are surrounding ISIL or ISIS is that they are reluctant to attack. Maybe because it threatens their own power, they only reason they are in power is because they have been propped up by the west.

This may lead to changes in borders, a re-drawing of the map, with new states or combined states.

[Georgy Zhukov]

43 people were killed in Lebanon the other day. I don't see people changing their profile pictures for Lebanon. People are more struck by the Paris attacks because it is Paris, a Western country and it is mostly non-Muslims being killed. But if people in Beirut are murdered, it is almost like it is expected.

Just throwing it out there

[ZoSoRose]

Im glad all forum members seem accounted for. Any word from Manets?

[gunsguy]

Im glad all forum members seem accounted for. Any word from Manets?

Manets has not checked in yet as far as I know

[The Glow Inc.]

Sure, France could stay away; we could all stay away, and just let they handle this problem themselves. I disagree.

And it would do nothing to stop the attacks in France anyways since :

-ISIS is hell bent on "conquering Europe"

-France is seen as one of their main targets after the Charlie Hebdo caricatures and the Hijab controversy

So yeah, while France "could" ignore what is happening in Syria, it wouldn't change a thing, these things would still happen.

[Cosmo]

Manets was in Paris? Fuck... But it seems he published something 2 hours ago on Facebook so he's probably ok, right?

[classicrawker]

This is in no way an important aspect of this event in anyway, just a trivial observation:

Genuinely surprised to see how many of my devout atheist friends "praying for Paris".

They make self-edifying statements over their intellectual superiority due to their atheism, then a terrorist attack done in the name of religion causes them to admit to praying.

Its nice that they're claiming to pray and all... But I listen respectfully to their arguments about how there can't be a God, for what feels like all the time, and now they're putting faith in one for a day and I feel as though I can't call them up on it.

Possibly because they're not actually praying and are just jumping on the alliterative hashtag bandwagon.

Live and let live, eh?

This is a tragic event and I feel sorrow for the victims and their families. I will not pray for them as I am an atheist but it begs the question if there is a god why did he let this happen?

When I hear this type of question asked of those of faith I usually get the response "it is part of gods plan"

Really and what plan is that exactly?

I only bring this up because you brought up atheists into this discussion. I will understand if the moderators delete this post but felt the need to respond......

So what should France's response be to this tragedy? should it be knee jerk military action to provide a temporary satisfaction for vengeance like our response to 911?

Curious to know peoples opinions as I imagine there will be an outcry for boots on the ground by some.

Edited November 14, 2015 by classicrawker

[The Glow Inc.]

I think France should pass new laws to warrant full powers to authorities so they can dismantle Djihadist circles on its territory.

I mean, what's the use of having 4000 people on French soil listed as potential terrorists with clear radical connections if you can't do anything about them until they actually start a massacre ?

Find a workaround, pass a law and do something about those guys.

In the meantime, work on a middle ground with Russia and the US and find a strategy because one day or another, that Islamic State shit will have to be cleaned one way or another, on its own battleground.

[shades]

First it should have never gotten to this, two years ago we picked them up in their infant stage driving in a convoy across the Iraqi desert waving their little black flags in the villages they stopped to terrorize. and your hero Obama called them the "JV" and let them build up power like a boulder rolling down hill.

BUT,

that's neither here or there now, it is what it is now.

We know where they headquarter in Al Raqqa, Aleppo ,etc

And like the Turkish fighters just did in Sinjar, with air support, the entire free world should march troops in with a scorched earth mentality until

the people of the region realize our effort is sincere in offering them hope.

Clear the cities and towns out that the millions of refugees had to flee and let them go home, protected and assured they wont be abandoned.

Will good soldiers die? yes, Will the sacrifice be nothing seen since WWII? maybe.

But as mean and determined as these animals are they are still relatively puny.

The reason, in my opinion why the displaced men won't fight for their homes is the US has proved they will cut and run as soon as the political wind says they should and the cycle will start again.

Obama doesn't have the balls or know how to lead this, so maybe someone else will step up, As mad as France is now I still doubt they will grow the necessary courage all of a sudden.

Edited November 14, 2015 by shades

[Apollo]

No, the real question that needs to be asked is who's going to stop them.

If the region is waiting on the USA to take the lead it will have to wait at least another year+ because right now between John Kerry and our

President they have no clue what they are doing. For that I apologize on behalf of the America spirit that once took the lead to confront such evil.

There is a good argument we even created this jihad against civilized populations, but again, our leadership is out to lunch so don't look for any help

anytime soon.

The idea and theory that only the Muslim world, the non radical majority Muslim world is really the only hope at stopping this is a sound one.

And makes the most sense.

BUT

they are not stepping up to the plate, and unlikely they will.

So the choice is either to face the reality in what needs to be done, and do it,

or these acts of terror in your backyard will continue. there's no third choice.

The entire region had better watch their backs, allowing 100's of thousands of desperate refugees into your countries, there are bound to be some really bad apples sneaking in with them. And at the very least if these millions of people find themselves in further desperation and not being treated fairly in their new

"homes" it will breed new jihadist in their midst.

This isn't a game, and if things like this don't wake you up then nothing will.

This is in no way an important aspect of this event in anyway, just a trivial observation:

Genuinely surprised to see how many of my devout atheist friends "praying for Paris".

"I have been driven to my knees many times by the overwhelming conviction that I had no place else to go.”

Abraham Lincoln

Don't worry bro. Barack and Hillary got this.

This is in no way an important aspect of this event in anyway, just a trivial observation:

Genuinely surprised to see how many of my devout atheist friends "praying for Paris".

They make self-edifying statements over their intellectual superiority due to their atheism, then a terrorist attack done in the name of religion causes them to admit to praying.

Its nice that they're claiming to pray and all... But I listen respectfully to their arguments about how there can't be a God, for what feels like all the time, and now they're putting faith in one for a day and I feel as though I can't call them up on it.

Possibly because they're not actually praying and are just jumping on the alliterative hashtag bandwagon.

Live and let live, eh?

This is a tragic event and I feel sorrow for the victims and their families. I will not pray for them as I am an atheist but it begs the question if there is a god why did he let this happen?

When I hear this type of question asked of those of faith I usually get the response "it is part of gods plan"

Really and what plan is that exactly?

I only bring this up because you brought up atheists into this discussion. I will understand if the moderators delete this post but felt the need to respond......

So what should France's response be to this tragedy? should it be knee jerk military action to provide a temporary satisfaction for vengeance like our response to 911?

Curious to know peoples opinions as I imagine there will be an outcry for boots on the ground by some.

Great post Gracii.

Classic, most Christians don't say that. I can't speak for other religions or groups. But the basic answer to your question is that God allowed free will. He isn't micromanaging people's every move. He created us and said "here ya go, let's see what you do." God gave us free will. It's up to us how we use it.

[ZoSoRose]

Manets was in Paris? Fuck... But it seems he published something 2 hours ago on Facebook so he's probably ok, right?

Im sure he is ok then! Good

[MB.]

43 people were killed in Lebanon the other day. I don't see people changing their profile pictures for Lebanon. People are more struck by the Paris attacks because it is Paris, a Western country and it is mostly non-Muslims being killed. But if people in Beirut are murdered, it is almost like it is expected.

Just throwing it out there

Why didn't you make a thread about it and you can always change your profile pic for Lebanon. It was an horrible bombing as well, I agree.

To be honest when that bombing happened I actually expected a thread made here about it. Ofcourse it's more expected a bombing take place in Lebanon then in Paris. The Hezbollah is not exactly friends with IS, it actually was expected. That whole region is not the safest place on earth right now. Not that it makes it any less horrible ofcourse, just more expected. But in Paris far away of the conflict, it was less likely. However most western european countries the terrorism code has been high (orange) for years now.

Edited November 14, 2015 by MB.

[Len Cnut]

43 people were killed in Lebanon the other day. I don't see people changing their profile pictures for Lebanon. People are more struck by the Paris attacks because it is Paris, a Western country and it is mostly non-Muslims being killed. But if people in Beirut are murdered, it is almost like it is expected.

Just throwing it out there

Cuz no one gives a fuckin' monkeys, thats why. And thats a point worth adressing...and things occur daily that are a comparable issue...just as this is, this reality cannot and must not be forgotten or glossed over.

[The Glow Inc.]

The sad reality is that people from the West are more or less accustomed to people from the East, the Middle-East and from Africa slaughtering each other on a regular basis.

While I'd like to believe most of us would like it to be different, we are desensitized to the news of yet another massacre.

Now we are beginning to smell the coffee.

[Amir]

Good to hear that board members in France are safe, heard back from my friends there, and my heart goes out to the families of victims there and in Lebanon and wherever there is tragedy in the world.

People asking why good Muslims aren't doing anything about this... Your average Ahmad and Khadijah are powerless against such terrifying groups. It'd be like me asking why Catholics didn't stop priests raping kids up to the present day, why Britons let Blair invade Iraq or Cameron reap havoc amongst its own poor people with his cuts. It would be to completely ignore the efforts made by individuals in these groups against such overwhelming forces. I might as well blame every German for Hitler, every Japanese person for the Rape of Nanking, or hold every Irish person responsible for the IRA bombings.

I'm an atheist, I don't even like Islam, but to hold a whole bunch of ordinary people to account is ridiculous, or to split Muslims into two groups as a whole. Hell, Iran and Hezbollah are fighting against ISIS, but the news is hesitant to report on that since neither of those groups are particularly fond of the West either.

It's a complete shitfest. Everyone acting like they could fix it all if they were President of the World is completely delusional. Western leaders get shit if they intervene because so many people are sick of wars and seeing their countrymen dying in some sandy shithole in the Middle East, but then the leaders get shit if they don't intervene because they are seen as letting evil continue to win. I have no fucking clue how to stop any of this, not going to pretend I have either.

On a more light-hearted note, if you want to understand the Middle East and the various terrorist groups in general, Monty Python hit the nail on the head decades ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

[Val22]

This shows you there is no security 24/7 for anyone and it's very scary to know this.

ISIS and any other crazy terrorists don't fear death, so there's no way to threaten them and they are relentless and will not stop.

Yeah, there are millions of good Muslims, but no matter how many members ISIS has it seems to be enough to bring a country like France to it's needs.

It's just a matter of time, before the US is hit again. No one knows for certain who these members are or where they are.

France just caught a few suspects in Belgium, so how easy it was for them to escape France before the borders were shut down?

All those innocent people shot down without any remorse or emotion behind it.

This is a terrible world now and it's not going to get any better.