RussTCB Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I have a confession to make: I've never listened to TSI in full so I had no idea this song existed. I knew about the song but I'm in the same boat with TSI. I've listened to Since I Don't Have You and Hair of the Dog in full but never more than like 30 seconds of the rest of the songs on the album. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caught_in_a_Coma Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) I love Axl's cover of the song, and the sound of the guitar is so smooth. Song always takes me away from things.I've never listened to all of TSI either but I've listened to most of it. I think Since I Don't Have You, Down on The Farm, Hair of The Dog, Buick Mckane, Black Leather, and Look at Your Game are all great to awesome. Edited December 11, 2015 by Caught_in_a_Coma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprite Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I think there are some that feel Charles Manson was not at the crime scene and did not actually carry out the murders himself so he is not guilty of murder. Whether or not you think he forced or brainwashed people into it and what, if any, punishment should be given for that is really all up to personal opinion. But it is true he did not kill anyone. So is 45+ years in a solitary cell really "American" for what some might consider being a good "salesman"? Or another way to ask it is when does self responsibility come in? And at what point does 45 years in a cell, without being there or physically doing anything, become a bit much?I won't comment on the soldier comment aside from saying he's probably trying to draw a parallel to a solider taking orders to kill for what some consider to be morally reprehensible thing like war, to Manson giving orders to kill. Interesting thought experiment, but a risky one at that as it tugs on the very foundation of American morals of "soldiers good, Manson bad".So to the point of jailing Manson being hypocritical, it does hold some merit to some people in some perspectives. That's all I can really say about it. You've got to decide for yourself though.I will say like him or not, Charles Manson, if you listen to his interviews really might have just been tragically misunderstood. He's full of wisdom- honestly. I know that statement is ludicrous to most, but if you are open to receive it, you know what I mean. And if you aren't, might as well stop trying because it's like explaining a TV to a cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I went through a phase there where I listened to TSI repeatedly. I think I was just desperate to hear "new" music. I like Down on the Farm and a couple of others but I haven't listened to it in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfierose Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I've removed a couple of posts on this thread. I realise it's a controversial subject however bringing up personal information about other members is not relevant or acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Charles Manson or, "chuckles" as I like to call him, was an aspiring songwriter back in the late '60s. He got one of the Beach Boys to record a tune of his, so Axl's not the only one. In fact, one of the houses targeted in the murders had formerly belonged to a record executive who had turned chuckles down in the past.His music is pretty lame. Generic folky stuff.He was a hippy, an aspiring songwriter, who hung out at Laurel Canyon (which was where all of the LA hippies and counter-culture types lived during the '60s) with people like Dennis Wilson and Neil Young. Neil actually gave him a motorcycle. In fact, I think Manson said Neil is the only one of his celebrity friends that he still has respect for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 TSI is getting a bad rap here. It isn't great but I like most of the songs on there. The Duff songs are the only ones I really don't care for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) I never understood why people mix up the artist and the art that he created. Those are two completely separate things. If Michael Jackson molested children, that doesn't make his songs any worse. The songs didn't molest anybody. Art is art. IMO you should not judge a song based on whether you like the artist or not. Cause then you're judging the artist, not the art. If Hitler had created awesome music, I'd listen to it. Of course it's a whole different argument, if you don't want to support an artist who has done bad things. I totally understand if you don't want to give your money to a person you hate.But still, art and the artist are separate things IMO. It's okay to enjoy art that some horrible person has created. I don't see anything wrong with that.That being said I kinda like Look At Your Game Girl. It's certainly not the worst song GNR has recorded. It's different and a little bit strange. I enjoy it. It is inherent element of humanity. Your rationality is sound however most of us are not as rational as that. I do not think we should put these people on pedestals, as many do, but could anyone really listen to a Gary Glitter cd - not just because the music is shite but because of the paedophilia? You both have valid arguments. So the real question is Axl and his past domestic violence against a reported four different women. I think the difference is in how you support the artist. Whether it be Axl, MJ or Manson. What causes these big debates is when somebody bashes another artist for things they've done, but then worships another artist who has done just as bad as stuff. Ok - let's use a specific example. Me and a hypothetical poster called Big Hipster Andy both are adamantly against people who physically abuse others. Especially when one is a more vulnerable party. Like a man beating his wife. BHA and I are both die-hard fans of a band called DriveShaft. It's our favorite band and lead singer. DriveShafts lead singer has had four different women accuse him of hitting them. He paid millions of dollars to spur then to disappear. I say "my favorite singer. But sounds like a complete douche in real life." I will buy his albums. But I don't want to meet him and I don't dream of being his friend. BHA says "he is the best, people are just haters." And BHA worships the ground the singer walks on. They praise everything the singer does. They base their core beliefs around what the singers core beliefs are. Singer likes Walking Dead - boom, that is BHA's favorite as well. Another artist says something negative about the singer, their response is "that guy sucks and is a terrible person and I've never liked them."BHA completely overlooks all the bad things that their singer has done. While bashing other artists for having no class, character, integrity or morals. They hold the singer to a different standard than they do others. BHA is probably a great person in real life. They just have a weird obsession with certain celebrities. Driveshaft singer's domestic Abuse is no big deal. But Howard Stern is a prick for life because he didn't sign an autograph one time. So I think that is where the debate really is. I can listen to artists who are bad people in real life. Most people fall into that category. But when people worship the ground these celebs walk on........that's when it gets weird. When you start patterning your life around a rock star or actor - it gets a little sad. Edited December 11, 2015 by Apollo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I never understood why people mix up the artist and the art that he created. Those are two completely separate things. If Michael Jackson molested children, that doesn't make his songs any worse. The songs didn't molest anybody. Art is art. IMO you should not judge a song based on whether you like the artist or not. Cause then you're judging the artist, not the art. If Hitler had created awesome music, I'd listen to it. Of course it's a whole different argument, if you don't want to support an artist who has done bad things. I totally understand if you don't want to give your money to a person you hate.But still, art and the artist are separate things IMO. It's okay to enjoy art that some horrible person has created. I don't see anything wrong with that.That being said I kinda like Look At Your Game Girl. It's certainly not the worst song GNR has recorded. It's different and a little bit strange. I enjoy it. It is inherent element of humanity. Your rationality is sound however most of us are not as rational as that. I do not think we should put these people on pedestals, as many do, but could anyone really listen to a Gary Glitter cd - not just because the music is shite but because of the paedophilia? You both have valid arguments.So the real question is Axl and his past domestic violence against a reported four different women.I think the difference is in how you support the artist. Whether it be Axl, MJ or Manson.What causes these big debates is when somebody bashes another artist for things they've done, but then worships another artist who has done just as bad as stuff.Ok - let's use a specific example.Me and a hypothetical poster called Big Hipster Andy both are adamantly against people who physically abuse others. Especially when one is a more vulnerable party. Like a man beating his wife.BHA and I are both die-hard fans of a band called DriveShaft. It's our favorite band and lead singer.DriveShafts lead singer has had four different women accuse him of hitting them. He paid millions of dollars to spur then to disappear.I say "my favorite singer. But sounds like a complete douche in real life." I will buy his albums. But I don't want to meet him and I don't dream of being his friend.BHA says "he is the best, people are just haters." And BHA worships the ground the singer walks on. They praise everything the singer does. They base their core beliefs around what the singers core beliefs are. Singer likes Walking Dead - boom, that is BHA's favorite as well.Another artist says something negative about the singer, their response is "that guy sucks and is a terrible person and I've never liked them."BHA completely overlooks all the bad things that their singer has done. While bashing other artists for having no class, character, integrity or morals. They hold the singer to a different standard than they do others.BHA is probably a great person in real life. They just have a weird obsession with certain celebrities. Driveshaft singer's domestic Abuse is no big deal. But Howard Stern is a prick for life because he didn't sign an autograph one time.So I think that is where the debate really is.I can listen to artists who are bad people in real life. Most people fall into that category.But when people worship the ground these celebs walk on........that's when it gets weird. When you start patterning your life around a rock star or actor - it gets a little sad.source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I never understood why people mix up the artist and the art that he created. Those are two completely separate things. If Michael Jackson molested children, that doesn't make his songs any worse. The songs didn't molest anybody. Art is art. IMO you should not judge a song based on whether you like the artist or not. Cause then you're judging the artist, not the art. If Hitler had created awesome music, I'd listen to it. Of course it's a whole different argument, if you don't want to support an artist who has done bad things. I totally understand if you don't want to give your money to a person you hate.But still, art and the artist are separate things IMO. It's okay to enjoy art that some horrible person has created. I don't see anything wrong with that.That being said I kinda like Look At Your Game Girl. It's certainly not the worst song GNR has recorded. It's different and a little bit strange. I enjoy it. It is inherent element of humanity. Your rationality is sound however most of us are not as rational as that. I do not think we should put these people on pedestals, as many do, but could anyone really listen to a Gary Glitter cd - not just because the music is shite but because of the paedophilia? You both have valid arguments.So the real question is Axl and his past domestic violence against a reported four different women.I think the difference is in how you support the artist. Whether it be Axl, MJ or Manson.What causes these big debates is when somebody bashes another artist for things they've done, but then worships another artist who has done just as bad as stuff.Ok - let's use a specific example.Me and a hypothetical poster called Big Hipster Andy both are adamantly against people who physically abuse others. Especially when one is a more vulnerable party. Like a man beating his wife.BHA and I are both die-hard fans of a band called DriveShaft. It's our favorite band and lead singer.DriveShafts lead singer has had four different women accuse him of hitting them. He paid millions of dollars to spur then to disappear.I say "my favorite singer. But sounds like a complete douche in real life." I will buy his albums. But I don't want to meet him and I don't dream of being his friend.BHA says "he is the best, people are just haters." And BHA worships the ground the singer walks on. They praise everything the singer does. They base their core beliefs around what the singers core beliefs are. Singer likes Walking Dead - boom, that is BHA's favorite as well.Another artist says something negative about the singer, their response is "that guy sucks and is a terrible person and I've never liked them."BHA completely overlooks all the bad things that their singer has done. While bashing other artists for having no class, character, integrity or morals. They hold the singer to a different standard than they do others.BHA is probably a great person in real life. They just have a weird obsession with certain celebrities. Driveshaft singer's domestic Abuse is no big deal. But Howard Stern is a prick for life because he didn't sign an autograph one time.So I think that is where the debate really is.I can listen to artists who are bad people in real life. Most people fall into that category.But when people worship the ground these celebs walk on........that's when it gets weird. When you start patterning your life around a rock star or actor - it gets a little sad. source?Anybody with a triple digit IQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseIRS Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Theres a whole press release Axl put out about why he covered it, where he first heard it, how the money for the song went to some of the victims families, why he wore the Manson shirt on the last part of the tour etc. etc. I cant be bothered to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) I remember hearing (back around 2000 or so) that Axl was removing this song and one in a million from future pressings of those albums. Does anyone know if that indeed happened? Im just curious if indeed copies of Lies exist without OIAM on it? Same goes for the Cuckels song. Edited December 12, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvH Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I remember hearing (back around 2000 or so) that Axl was removing this song and one in a million from future pressings of those albums. Does anyone know if that indeed happened? Im just curious if indeed copies of Lies exist without OIAM on it? Same goes for the Cuckels song.Nope, it never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Not suprised, they forgot to schedule a 3 hour meeting to discuss it... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 it was a message to stephanie seymour with whom we broke up with in february of 93. His gardener played guitar on the track.What? Slash and Gilby aren't on there? im not sure they even knew it existedThey did. This wasn't like 'My World' where they found out by listening to the record.As for YCPYAOAM:Slash: I didn't even play on the Johnny Thunders song cos I hated that little fucker! [Kerrang, March 1994]. Fuck off Slash you fuckin' mug, Johnny Thunders is 100 times the performer you ever were, you wouldn't see him sucking Axl Roses cock for a pension.It seems axl probably covered the songs to push some people's buttons. Seems it worked lmao I would assume that was one of the reasons he did it, but that doesn't make it cool IMOAgreed.Plus, it's a horrible song.Exactly, it's a shite song thats only noted cuz a fuckin' psycho wrote it, 'what a mad delusion, living in this confusion', Christ Almighty it sounds like a 13 yr olds first attempt at songwriting. 'pushing peoples buttons', what, by making them thick he's a cock? Well done Axl. Crazy doesn't negotiate. Look at Annie's posts. So yeah, morally politically correct blah blah blah... Hey axl legally covered a song and it made the cut like it or not. You're complaining about it. Yup.. He pushed buttons. He may actually be into that too much but, it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) why should it out you off a good tune is a good tune right? If Hitler wrote bohemian rhapsody would still be an amazing tune Well Queen were called ''the first truly fascist rock band" by a well known music critic, reviewing Jazz! Edited December 15, 2015 by DieselDaisy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Cantona Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 why should it out you off a good tune is a good tune right? If Hitler wrote bohemian rhapsody would still be an amazing tune Hitler made nice paintings. I wouldn't be keen on hearing an angry Austrian singing Bohemian Rhapsody... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Signs Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I stumped the Trunk a few weeks back with my question about who played guitar on look at your game girl. They didn't believe me that it was Carlos Booey and even went as far as to look it up on their phones backstage after the show to see if I was trying to pull one over on them to win a prize. TSI kicks ass. It's not like GNR have a ton of material so I don't get how a fan would have thousands of posts on here, yet not have had time since 1993 to listen to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Crazy person writes good song shocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little EMO Annie Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 WhenI heard the song I was shocked that Manson wrote it It wasn't half bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 The majority of Hitler's paintings were ripped from postcards. He would basically replicate these post cards and sell them to tourists in Vienna. He really wanted to be an architect above all else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Bottom line is, it's a shit song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 The majority of Hitler's paintings were ripped from postcards. He would basically replicate these post cards and sell them to tourists in Vienna. He really wanted to be an architect above all else.That may be. I just posted the picture because the tråll comment is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Good song. I think that was the point of the album? A good song could be found anywhere. But after OIAM I don't see the thinking behind using it. Maybe just to freak Stephanie out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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