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GnR’s place in hard rock history?


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This was the Stones on the verge of being a real hard rock power house. You can clearly see the influence on GNR...

​Just wanted to say "thank you" for posting this! This prompted me to start digging around on youtube for some other stuff from that 1972 tour. Fortunately there are some complete shows/bootlegs on youtube from that era. The Stones were badass during that period. It's a shame there are no official live releases (CD) to document that tour (other than the DVD).

https://youtu.be/P6R8pFz_uBE​

Stones circa '72 were the greatest band that has ever existed in the history of rock n roll (with the exception of Elvis, Scotty Moore, Bill Black, Fontana).

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Stones circa '72 were the greatest band that has ever existed in the history of rock n roll (with the exception of Elvis, Scotty Moore, Bill Black, Fontana).

I'm assuming you're not counting The Beatles as rock n' roll.

Edited by Rovim
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Going to hit you on several talking points here:

#1. Illusions Albums Not DJ's Choice: I'm 28 almost 29 next month and I remember as a 6 year old grabbing the remote & watching MTV and seeing the Estranged Music video (1993) and that song forever being engrained into my mind, it got a ton of air play along with November Rain they even showed how they made the videos and GNR was in great shape, Don't Cry, Garden Of Eden, The Garden, Welcome To The Jungle (still very relevant in 93), Dead Horse, heck even "Since I Don't Have You" got played, point being GNR were still very relevant in the Illusions & Post Illusions era in a time where "Grunge" supposedly ruled and I heard these all on radio & seen em on tv. Also I think you're forgetting a little song called "You Could Be Mine" made famous to most casual GNR fans as the song in Terminator 2 Judgment Day while Edward Furlong is riding his dirt bike to the mall. I'm honestly not sure if you've lived through that era or not, I was 5 years old when the GNR love hit me and its stuck ever since and I remember it like yesterday. As for todays Illusions legacy, Civil War, Knockin' On Heavens Door, You Could Be Mine, November Rain, Estranged, Dead Horse, Don't Cry STILL get air play! Especially in light of the recent reunion rumors.

I was 12 in 1992 when I discovered GN'R upon seeing the Paris PPV. I remember how big Illusion was but I also remember how increasingly uncool gnr become because Nirvana kille dthem off. Axl was coming on stage with his ball sack on show. Cheesy fuckin 10 minute videos. Ballads. Overdubs. Pomposity. Nirvana came and killed it all and made them look like complete wankers.

#2. Beatles Didn't Ride Elvis' Coat tails: They did, because quite frankly everyone after Elvis did to some extent, he broke down the walls & barriers to the establishment & created the anarchy that IS Rock & Roll an essence that lives on today, from shaking his ass and singing wild & going against the grain of everything that was to almost being arrested & fined as well as put on a FBI watch list just for playing Rock & Roll. Just look at Music prior to Elvis and look at music after he broke loose, it was fucking boring and it became great after Elvis almost got shut down for rocking the fuck out like none before him. Do you think the Beatles would have been as free to do the kind of antics they did without EP first knocking those barriers down? John Lennon even said himself the following quotes: "Before Elvis there was nothing" and "Nothing really affected me until I heard Elvis. If there hadn't been an Elvis, there wouldn't have been the Beatles.". You're right they didn't ride his coat tails...(sarcasm), he practically carried them in his hands. Did I also mention that Elvis inspired Led Zep as well ;-)

Preaching to the choir here, as I am also a big Elvis fan. In fact I prefer Elvis to Beatles.

Stones circa '72 were the greatest band that has ever existed in the history of rock n roll (with the exception of Elvis, Scotty Moore, Bill Black, Fontana).

I'm assuming you don't count The Beatles as rock n' roll.

Beatles did not reach that live peak as a live band. Sorry. The Beatles may have been greater songwriters and more evolutionary but they could not match the stones live during that era. Well, Lennon insists that the best was in Hamburg,

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Preaching to the choir here, as I am also a big Elvis fan. In fact I prefer Elvis to Beatles.

He had a great voice and he could put on a show. The music is great. But it pales in comparison to The Beatles. And they could actually write a tune, unlike Elvis.

Edited by Rovim
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Preaching to the choir here, as I am also a big Elvis fan. In fact I prefer Elvis to Beatles.

He had a great voice and he could put up a show. The music is great. But it pails in comparison to The Beatles. And they could actually write a tune, unlike Elvis.

No sorry - I prefer the King.

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No sorry - I prefer the King.

Don't care what you prefer. Everything I said in my post is true. He was The King. Not trying to take anything away from his music. Without it, The Beatles would have sounded differently or not exist at all, and regardless, I'm an Elvis fan.

But to compare it to The Beatles? it's subjective, but I prefer The Beatles. All of it is good music so it doesn't matter, but The Beatles moved forward more. Musically, there was a giant fuckin' leap forward.

Edited by Rovim
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No sorry - I prefer the King.

Don't care what you prefer. Everything I said in my post is true. He was The King. Not trying to take anything away from his music. Without it, The Beatles would have sounded differently or not exist at all, and regardless, I'm an Elvis fan.

But to compare it to The Beatles? it's subjective, but I prefer The Beatles. All of it is good music so it doesn't matter, but The Beatles moved forward more. Musically, there was a giant fuckin' leap forward.

There was a gigantic leap with Elvis.

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Your comparing Elvis, The Beatles & The Rolling Stones to Guns N' Roses. Those three are arguably the most popular bands/artists of the last 100 years. I don't quite get how Nirvana were always superior to Guns, yes they had great songs but they were the original cupcakes..trolling bands that where bigger than themselves to leapfrog them, calling a band of guys in there 20's dinosaurs because of the music, Kurt saying other grunge bands/rock bands were sell outs, yet as soon as you sign with a massive record company..your the sell out. They should have stayed on sub pop if they where that bothered. For me Nirvana need to sell another 100m records to get anywhere near Guns, although I am a fan of Kurt's work.

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This was the Stones on the verge of being a real hard rock power house. You can clearly see the influence on GNR...

​Just wanted to say "thank you" for posting this! This prompted me to start digging around on youtube for some other stuff from that 1972 tour. Fortunately there are some complete shows/bootlegs on youtube from that era. The Stones were badass during that period. It's a shame there are no official live releases (CD) to document that tour (other than the DVD).

https://youtu.be/P6R8pFz_uBE​

Stones circa '72 were the greatest band that has ever existed in the history of rock n roll (with the exception of Elvis, Scotty Moore, Bill Black, Fontana).

​I'm not an Elvis fan, but I'm beginning to agree with you about the Stones. I think the only band that might could have challenged them for the "greatest band" title during that period was Zeppelin. I know from some of your other posts that you are not a huge Zeppelin fan, but setting aside your personal preferences...how do you think Zeppelin as a live act compared with the Stones (considering both during their peaks and on a good night...I know live shows can be hit and miss with any band). I've always thought Zeppelin had a slight edge with Page being better than Taylor (although I love both). However, as I get older I find myself often preferring the Stones over Zeppelin...not sure what that means (if anything)...does it say something about me getting older or about the music, or neither? I'm trying to recall something that Keith Richards said in a documentary that I recently watched. It was something to the effect of "I like the roll, more than the rock...". Maybe that's what it boils down to with Zep and the Stones...both were great rock and roll bands, but Zep put more emphasis on the "rock" while the Stones put more emphasis on the "roll"...

And since this thread is about GnR's place in hard rock history...setting aside their lack of output, etc. and looking only at live performances as the criteria for comparison...how do you think GnR at their best (IMO the original AFD lineup circa late 80's, not the UYI tours) compare to the Stones and Zep during their glory days? I think GnR would have to be at least top 5 hard rock acts (live) of all time.

Edited by foghat43
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