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Making a Murderer


SoulMonster

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That was the take away really, they just railroaded Avery the first and they would do it again. Especially with careers on the line. 

I always get hooked but then at the end I don't career if they did it or not. the fact Avery is capable of something like that and Dasey is so easily led both need to be in low security prison just as a precautionary measure. 

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On 2/3/2017 at 2:34 AM, Apollo said:

https://www.amazon.com/Indefensible-Missing-Steven-Halbach-Murderer/dp/1496710134

"Michael Griesbach, a prosecutor and member of Wisconsin’s Innocence Project who had been instrumental in Avery’s 2003 exoneration, was targeted on social media, threatened—and plagued by doubt. Now, in this suspenseful, thorough narrative, he recounts his own re-examination of the evidence in light of the whirlwind of controversy stirred up by the blockbuster true-crime series."

Like I said several times earlier in this topic, Avery and his nephew were 100% guilty - without a doubt, open and shut case.

This book, written by a guy who wrote a book detailed how Avery was framed for the earlier crime , watched the documentary and - like most people - thought that maybe Avery had been framed again. But he also saw some things that he knew weren't portrayed correctly. So he got the court transcripts and all of Avery's police records, and he sat down to see if Avery was innocent or guilty.

Long story short - almost every "smoking gun" from the documentary simply isn't true. They've distorted, taken things out of context, or flat out lied about pretty much every major point.

They use the Michael Moore style of journalism. Just make up or create things to make the "truth" fit their narrative.

As an example. A couple times they show people in court answering questions. Seems legit - right? Well, except for the fact that they show a guy being asked a question and instead of showing his ACTUAL answer - they cut out what he said, and splice in an answer from later on in the trial. Think about that. That's how this entire documentary was made.  Taking things out of context, splicing different interviews and statements together, and a couple things they just flat out lie about.

I get it. The doc was extremely powerful and convinced a lot of people that Avery had been framed once again. But seriously - the majority of the documentary isn't an accurate portrayal of what really happened.

Avery and his nephew killed that poor lady. Without a doubt, 100% they did it. 

If you feel strongly that they are innocent and you are outraged by it, I implore you to read this book. It will change your mind. Guarantee it.

I won't bore you with all the details. But just to get you started........TH won't come to Avery's house anymore, because of his past inappropriate behavior. So he calls her company and disguises his voice to sound like a woman's. He gives them a fake name (his sister's name, different last name than his) and her address. And says he (she) is selling a van. (Sister later tells police she wasn't selling the van).  Sooooo, what's up with that? Why did he lure that lady out to the property, using a fake voice/name and job request????? To woo her over and have tea together?   And by some weird coincidence, the day he does this....the lady ends up going missing and is later found murdered.  What are the odds of that happening the same day he called her? And wow, he was also the last person to see her alive.  The odds of all that happening are just realistic. Throw in the fact that Avery had been accused by at least five different women (from ex-GFs to his own nieces) of sexually and physically abusing them. The same guy who pour gas on his pet cat and set it on fire. When the fire went out, he poured on more gas and set it on fire again until the cat died. The same guy who liked to go to the edge of the road in front of his house and masturbate when his neighbor would drive by in the mornings (so she would see him).

And if the police did try and frame him....you are talking about police who weren't on the force during the initial crime. These guys are going to risk their careers/jobs/pensions and jail time over something that happened before they started working there? Really?  Keep in mind, these are probably the finest police in the history of police.  They get a call saying TH is missing. Somehow, within a matter of maybe an hour or two, they are able to figure out that Avery called (disguising his voice, using a fake name, etc) and THEN they are able to solve the missing person call by SOLVING the murder!!! Within an hour or two of finding out she was missing, these guys find the murderer and solve the crime. Amazing police work.     Now that they've caught the murderer and figure out that Avery was the last person to see TH alive, a bunch of them get together and decide it's the perfect time to frame Avery. And what the hell, might as well frame his nephew as well.   Keep in mind - this is all in one day.

Luckily, they catch another huge break as the see Avery has a huge bonfire going in his yard (on the same day as the murder). So a couple of them sneak into Avery's house and steal his gun and shoot TH in the head, then sneak the gun back into the house. They then hide behind some bushes at Avery's house until Avery/nephew run inside to use the bathroom. The police then quickly jump out from the bush and throw the body onto the bonfire, and then they get the hell out of dodge. Maybe in their invisible police car. Luckily for the police, Avery doesn't notice the dead body on top of his bonfire.

And on and on it goes.

TL/DR -  read the book. Aftewards, you'll feel silly for being so outraged and for being 100% convinced that Avery was framed for a second time.

So you also think Dassey was guilty?

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On February 8, 2017 at 1:57 AM, Lio said:

I'm looking forward to that then.

I stopped watching midway the 8th episode or something. I was hooked, but I always get too upset with those things :lol: and I'd had enough of that awful prosecutor. I couldn't stand him locking up the nephew too. Leaving aside if he/they is/are actually guilty or not, there's obviously something wrong with the nephew. I mean, he was 16 or something, but he doesn't seem to be able to form a sentence or answer any question, nor grasp what the consequences are from what he's saying (or doing). I'd like to think that a kid with such low intelligence wouldn't even appear in court here. Instead the case would be dealt with by the appropriate authorities. At the very least, someone should've always been present (a parent, a psychologist, social worker) while he was interrogated by those cops who obviously took advantage of his low intelligence. Regardless if they're guilty or innocent, the cops came across as crooks and I would never trust them, after seeing how they handled the case in general and that kid in specific.

Dude!!! Except that's not how it actually happened. The documentary just cherry picked random parts to make the cops look bad. 

There is a reason the jurors - who actually saw what actually happened in the interviews - voted the way they did. 

I could find five minutes of Charles Manson video and make him seem like a hero and great guy. 

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@downzy what is your opinion on it. The cops framed Avery?

His blood and DNA were found on the car. Exactly where Brandon told them that the body was stashed and that Avery had touched the hood of the car  

He lured TH to his house by using a fake name, a fake vehicle for sale and disguising his voice to sound like a woman. 

TH went to the address. 

Avery is the last person to see TH alive. 

So once we get past that.......how does a framing or setup work? Did Avery do all that just so he could see and talk to TH for a minute before she stormed off?

The police somehow figure out that Avery lied and lured TH to his property. We're talking they figured this out 2-3 minutes after she left his property. Because she didn't have time to call her boss and tell him what happened - so the police would have had to apprehend her before she made that phone call.

So the police then grab TH (literally 1-2 minutes after she left Avery's house) and kill her. Steal Avery's gun and shoot her in the head. Then luckily Avery and Brandon are having a huge bonfire that same day. So cops sneak over and somehow burn the body on Avery's property.....all without Avery seeing them. 

Then for some strange reason, Avery lies to the cops several times about what happened when TH came over. And for some reason Brandon decides to lie to people and tell them he and his uncle raped and killed this missing woman.

If Avery hadn't had the wrong conviction before then this case would have been one of the easiest open-and-shut cases in US history.    They didn't have one key piece of evidence that tied it all together - they had about 20 damning pieces. 

The documentary is a complete and total scam. 

This guy - who helped free Avery from his original conviction - got all the court transcripts and all of Avery's police records. He didn't base his opinion on a documentary. He based it on the actual facts. 

There is literally no chance - not 1% - that Avery and Brandon are innocent. 

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So @Apollo I agree with you, generally.   When this show originally came out and dug deeper into all of it.  The conclusion I came to was that either Avery and/or Dawson were involved in this all in some way.  That was before I learned how Avery got the victim to the property in the first place.  Which led me to conclude Avery is definitely guilty. 

However I am unsure about Brandon.  What are the facts surrounding him and his involvement other than he was there at some point that afternoon/evening.

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The doc definitely didn't convince me didn't do the second one. There's no other alternative theory. 

I was more interested in his motivations. It seemed like the police harrassed his girlfriend to leave him, maybe understandably. I got the impression he may of thought his freedom was worth nothing because his reputation and life were shit. So did he do it out of revenge? Who was TH? Was she connected to someone he thought framed him for the first crime?

Then I'm interested in why Brendan was involved. It was said that he learned in prison that burning a body is the best way to get away with it. But does having a minor or someone else to pin it on also something he planned? 

I guess the time he spent in prison and being framed really did make a murderer. 

 

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15 hours ago, tsinindy said:

So @Apollo I agree with you, generally.   When this show originally came out and dug deeper into all of it.  The conclusion I came to was that either Avery and/or Dawson were involved in this all in some way.  That was before I learned how Avery got the victim to the property in the first place.  Which led me to conclude Avery is definitely guilty. 

However I am unsure about Brandon.  What are the facts surrounding him and his involvement other than he was there at some point that afternoon/evening.

Just that he told the police a lot of specific things that pointed to a lot of specific evidence. The doc left that stuff out. 

People say "why did they find that piece of evidence on the second search and not the first".....it's because the first search was just a general one when Avery was a basic suspect. The following searches were after Brandon told the cops specific pieces of information.   

So either the police just waited for him to say things and then planted evidence to match it. Or Brandon was there. 

And he had conversations with people before Avery was arrested - and after - where he admits being there and gives specific information. He told his mom he did it. Of course his story changes over time. 

The doc also presents him as the full scale retarded kid who can barely function. When that wasn't the case at all. The doc showing the detectives harassing him was also taking out of context. When it appears they are leading him on and forcing him to say/admit things - it was usually because an hour before he had already admitted it. 

"So then you walked into the room"......

"See!!!! They are leading him on to say that. Unbelievable."

But in actually, earlier in the interview he said that he went into the bedroom. Now the cops are digging deeper - but the doc left the first part out, so now it looks like the interview guys are leading him on to fit their own narrative. 

It really is a disgusting documentary once you see what the makers of it actually did. 

Avery is a vile piece of shit. Brandon just got caught up in something he wasn't mentally or physically ready to handle, unfortunately. And the guys who made the documentary are horrible, horrible people. They made the world care with a raping murderer. And they made the world hate and lash out at a couple very honest and hardworking police men and they added to the tension that the country is going through with all the police brutality cases. They should be ashamed of themselves. 

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So @Apollo, is there video then of the first interviews with Brandon where he actually admits these things unprompted? Because that is what disgusted me the most..the video in that doc clearly shows he did not know what they wanted to hear..and only said "ya" when they actually "told" him what he did...but if there is video of the interview where he gives correct details of the crime, of his own volition, without being led, that would be interesting to see.

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