South Dakota passes transgender student bathroom ban bill

[PappyTron]

People who are trans-gendered typically know from a young age that something is not "right" or that they are "different" to their friends. They are perfectly aware that it is not a "phase" or something that will pass as time goes by. All being trans-gendered is, is that despite having the physical body of one sex, your mental composition is such that would usually be found in the body of the opposite sex. Male and Female is a social construct anyway and is based around normative gender roles; many countries and cultures have three genders, and I think that people get confused between the words "gender" and "sex" because they are commonly used incorrectly and interchangeably.

With the above being said, I believe that how a person self-identifies is down to them, because only they truly know how they feel. However, it is not the place of society as a whole to bend to the will of every group within that society. Lastly, whilst a person may identify as a woman, despite being biologically a man, I tend to lean towards internally labeling them by the latter; a post-operative trans-gendered person (Caitlin Jenner for example) is still a man to me, based on the biological characteristics.

[Facekicker]

2 minutes ago, PappyTron said:

People who are trans-gendered typically know from a young age that something is not "right" or that they are "different" to their friends. They are perfectly aware that it is not a "phase" or something that will pass as time goes by. All being trans-gendered is, is that despite having the physical body of one sex, your mental composition is such that would usually be found in the body of the opposite sex. Male and Female is a social construct anyway and is based around normative gender roles; many countries and cultures have three genders, and I think that people get confused between the words "gender" and "sex" because they are commonly used incorrectly and interchangeably.

With the above being said, I believe that how a person self-identifies is down to them, because only they truly know how they feel. However, it is not the place of society as a whole to bend to the will of every group within that society. Lastly, whilst a person may identify as a woman, despite being biologically a man, I tend to lean towards internally labeling them by the latter; a post-operative trans-gendered person (Caitlin Jenner for example) is still a man to me, based on the biological characteristics.

So on the one hand you are saying there is such a thing as a male and female brain yet on the other hand you are saying that gender is a social construct?

[PappyTron]

5 minutes ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

So on the one hand you are saying there is such a thing as a male and female brain yet on the other hand you are saying that gender is a social construct?

Gender is a social construct derived from applied traditional roles; the "male" vs "female" brain is the difference between what would usually fall under the guise of the "male" or "female" social roles.

Edited February 18, 2016 by PappyTron

[Facekicker]

9 minutes ago, PappyTron said:

Gender is a social construct derived from applied traditional roles; the "male" vs "female" brain is the difference between what would usually fall under the guise of the "male" or "female" social roles.

Can I just clarify what you are saying a little further? Do you believe that men and women have different brains in an innate way or do you believe that differences emerge due to social conditioning?

[PappyTron]

16 minutes ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Can I just clarify what you are saying a little further? Do you believe that men and women have different brains in an innate way or do you believe that differences emerge due to social conditioning?

Biologically the brain of a man and the brain of a woman are physically different; the typical male brain is larger, for instance. However, social conditioning also plays a role; in the west we have traditional roles which we ascribe to "male" and to "female", and these roles are different in different cultures, with some having three traditional gender roles. Like I said in the first post, if you were to ask trans-gendered people when they knew that they identified with the wrong gender relative to their physical body they would almost universally state that it was at a very young age, and that they are certain in their feelings; no social pressure or guidance was needed.

Edited February 18, 2016 by PappyTron
Clarified gender vs sex.

[Dazey]

Transgender is a real condition. Gender fluidity is Miley Cyrus wondering what to do next after everybody gets sick of seeing her growler every five minutes. 

[Facekicker]

1 minute ago, PappyTron said:

Biologically the brain of a man and the brain of a woman are physically different; the typical male brain is larger, for instance. However, social conditioning also plays a role, just like it does in any aspect; there is no clear nature vs nurture divide. Like I said in the first post, if you were to ask trans-gendered people when they knew that they identified with the wrong gender relative to their physical body they would almost universally state that it was at a very young age, and that they are certain in their feelings; no social pressure or guidance was needed.

This neuroscientist disagrees, it is an interesting read. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10684179/Men-and-women-do-not-have-different-brains-claims-neuroscientist.html

[PappyTron]

10 minutes ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

This neuroscientist disagrees, it is an interesting read. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10684179/Men-and-women-do-not-have-different-brains-claims-neuroscientist.html

You know, I was waiting for you to publish that type of article. Moreover, I know that if I'd have stated that male and female brains are the same you'd have linked an article saying that they are different. The fact that you posted your link less than a minute after I made my post tells me that you had it all ready to go; you simply want to be a contrarian.

Moreover, what does she disagree with me in what I said? If you asked her she would tell you that our brains are indeed physically different; male brains are larger and have more grey matter; that is a biological fact.

Have a look at the kinds of groups that Rippon writes for and you can see what kind of a person she is:

http://sciencegrrl.co.uk/events/event/fighting-neurotrash-wow/

Science Grrrl? Really? You don't need to be a professor to know exactly what kind of agenda she is pushing.

Edited February 18, 2016 by PappyTron

[Facekicker]

23 minutes ago, PappyTron said:

You know, I was waiting for you to publish that type of article. Moreover, I know that if I'd have stated that male and female brains are the same you'd have linked an article saying that they are different. The fact that you posted your link less than a minute after I made my post tells me that you had it all ready to go; you simply want to be a contrarian.

Moreover, what does she disagree with me in what I said? If you asked her she would tell you that our brains are indeed physically different; male brains are larger and have more grey matter; that is a biological fact.

Have a look at the kinds of groups that Rippon writes for and you can see what kind of a person she is:

http://sciencegrrl.co.uk/events/event/fighting-neurotrash-wow/

Science Grrrl? Really? You don't need to be a professor to know exactly what kind of agenda she is pushing.

If you don't like the source here is a different more recent study that came to the same conclusion

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-10/30/male-female-brain-difference-not-significant

[PappyTron]

1 minute ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

If you don't like the source here is a different more recent study that came to the same conclusion

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-10/30/male-female-brain-difference-not-significant

Can you actually point out what either the first or the second article has said that disagrees with what I have stated (other than Rippon's claim that you can't tell a male brain from a female brain as they are physically the same, which is wrong)? Male and Female brains ARE physically different ( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/men-have-bigger-brains-than-women-research-reveals-9124103.html), and she agrees with me over gender being a social construct (gender is just the role we attach to what we lass as male or female), which is why ascribed gender roles are different in each country and culture. I'm not sure what you are blathering about, to be honest, given that I stated in each and every post that gender is a social construct.

Heck, right at the beginning you asked me whether I thought that there are male and female brains and my reply was, and I quote "Gender is a social construct derived from applied traditional roles; the "male" vs "female" brain is the difference between what would usually fall under the guise of the "male" or "female" social roles". Now, I know that you like to be a complete arse just for the sake of it, but your forum contrarianism would be a lot more believable if you actually bothered to read what people say before trying to be edgy and say that they are incorrect.

[-W.A.R-]

i don't think you are born gay i think its something you pick up during your adolescence or in some cases i think people are just looking for acceptance somewhere

but i'm all for people being what want to be but i think being 13-16 year old wearing women clothing and wanting to use the women's restroom is a bit young for all that

i don't see why a kid would want to put himself through that torment anyway....during those ages kids really don't understand the impact of their words and actions to others

Edited February 18, 2016 by -W.A.R-

[Len Cnut]

5 hours ago, axlslash said:

I'm in favor of that. I went to a college with co-ed bathrooms. As long as there's a door where you can get your privacy (which I want regardless of gender), unisex bathrooms would make life a hell of a lot easier.

Plus you can have a gander over the cubicle

[axlslash]

1 minute ago, Len B'stard said:

Plus you can have a gander over the cubicle

High in the running for "Most Likely To Go To Jail" in the 2016 MyGNR Awards, eh?

[Len Cnut]

32 minutes ago, axlslash said:

High in the running for "Most Likely To Go To Jail" in the 2016 MyGNR Awards, eh?

Shit jokes are not punishable by imprisonment.

Honestly, all this palava about where you take a shit, who gives a flying fuck?   Having a special tranny toilet surely makes you less a woman or a man or whatever gender you wanna 'identify' as because it's seperating you from the two distinctions.  And if you're a bloke, who think he's a bird, what the fuck difference does it make where you take a dump, you're still gonna be you, feel like you etc etc

I wonder if people who 'identify' as black would've chosen to work the cotton fields back in slavery times.  'i'm a man but i was born a girl!' 'i'm a girl but i was born a man!', who fuckin' cares, just tip your skip in shitter associated with your original gender and fuck off, no one wants to know your fuckin' biography.

Transgender toilets my fuckin' arse, people act like trannys just fell out of the sky last tuesday, where have they been taking a shit before now, when did this suddenly become an issue?   What next, seperate locker rooms for boys with little dicks, 'i can't help it, i was born this way, people pointing and laughing at it oppresses me!'

Edited February 18, 2016 by Len B'stard

[Axl owns dexter]

The trans issue is like number 100 on my list of issues I care to comment on. But really, the thing I signal against most is parents who let their kids transition. No one under 18 should be going through that process. I do not believe everyone going through the process truly has the issue of being "born in the wrong body." You know, there is quite a high suicide rate for people after they transition. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Axl owns dexter

[Facekicker]

2 minutes ago, Axl owns dexter said:

The trans issue is like number 100 on my list of issues I care to comment on. But really, the thing I signal against most is parents who let their kids transition. No one under 18 should be going through that process. I do not believe everyone going through the process truly has the issue of being "born in the wrong body." You know, there is quite a high suicide rate for people after they transition. 

That's because they are mentally ill and parents dressing their little boys as girls and helping them "transition" are guilty of child abuse

[DieselDaisy]

Unisex toilets? You want the feminine sex to use the same public toilets as men? Have you ever seen the gents? The whiff of urine that hits you like an avalanche as you enter; troughs - what pigs use to eat out of - bloody pigs!! Yellow sponge objects dropped into these same troughs in the vague hope that they will somehow destroy the obnoxious bacterial odour. If you enter a toilet in a more disreputable pub or a sporting venue, there are usually the obligatory empty beer cans and graffiti, ''Jimmy will give you a hand job if you dial this number'' etc etc. I do not want women to endure what men have to go through in these places! Of course the argument to that is that with unisex, the standards may ascend to the calibre of female toilets, and not descend to the male example. I suppose troughs will disappear? Well, men pee in the cistern standing up. Men pee with the seat down. Men, with multiple alcoholic beverages in their innards become very poor marksmen - any male who has been brought up in a household comprising of predominately females will recognise this argument.

Terrible idea.

[spunko12345]

16 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Unisex toilets? You want the feminine sex to use the same public toilets as men? Have you ever seen the gents? The whiff of urine that hits you like an avalanche as you enter; troughs - what pigs use to eat out of - bloody pigs!! Yellow sponge objects dropped into these same troughs in the vague hope that they will somehow destroy the obnoxious bacterial odour. If you enter a toilet in a more disreputable pub or a sporting venue, there are usually the obligatory empty beer cans and graffiti, ''Jimmy will give you a hand job if you dial this number'' etc etc. I do not want women to endure what men have to go through in these places! Of course the argument to that is that with unisex, the standards may ascend to the calibre of female toilets, and not descend to the male example. I suppose troughs will disappear? Well, men pee in the cistern standing up. Men pee with the seat down. Men, with multiple alcoholic beverages in their innards become very poor marksmen - any male who has been brought up in a household comprising of predominately females will recognise this argument.

Terrible idea.

If you go to a new town and are not sure if your in a rough pub or not drop 50p into the trough. If it's gone when you go for your next piss get the fuck out of the pub quickly cos your in a dive and you'll probably be glassed within the hour.

On topic, if there were separate bogs for transgenders I would just use them cos they'd probably be the cleanest based on least demand for them. Theres nothing worse when you go into your trap and someone else gets in the next one and takes a shit.

[Facekicker]

25 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Unisex toilets? You want the feminine sex to use the same public toilets as men? Have you ever seen the gents? The whiff of urine that hits you like an avalanche as you enter; troughs - what pigs use to eat out of - bloody pigs!! Yellow sponge objects dropped into these same troughs in the vague hope that they will somehow destroy the obnoxious bacterial odour. If you enter a toilet in a more disreputable pub or a sporting venue, there are usually the obligatory empty beer cans and graffiti, ''Jimmy will give you a hand job if you dial this number'' etc etc. I do not want women to endure what men have to go through in these places! Of course the argument to that is that with unisex, the standards may ascend to the calibre of female toilets, and not descend to the male example. I suppose troughs will disappear? Well, men pee in the cistern standing up. Men pee with the seat down. Men, with multiple alcoholic beverages in their innards become very poor marksmen - any male who has been brought up in a household comprising of predominately females will recognise this argument.

Terrible idea.

You'd be surprised, I've heard it from bar and hotel staff that female toilets are 1000 times worse than the men's 

[DieselDaisy]

There is a pub in Whitley Bay, a particularly rough place, which surely has the worst toilets imaginable. Because of where they're situated and their compactness, every time somebody opens the door, a waft of urine shoots through the pub.

[spunko12345]

16 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Unisex toilets? You want the feminine sex to use the same public toilets as men? Have you ever seen the gents? The whiff of urine that hits you like an avalanche as you enter; troughs - what pigs use to eat out of - bloody pigs!! Yellow sponge objects dropped into these same troughs in the vague hope that they will somehow destroy the obnoxious bacterial odour. If you enter a toilet in a more disreputable pub or a sporting venue, there are usually the obligatory empty beer cans and graffiti, ''Jimmy will give you a hand job if you dial this number'' etc etc. I do not want women to endure what men have to go through in these places! Of course the argument to that is that with unisex, the standards may ascend to the calibre of female toilets, and not descend to the male example. I suppose troughs will disappear? Well, men pee in the cistern standing up. Men pee with the seat down. Men, with multiple alcoholic beverages in their innards become very poor marksmen - any male who has been brought up in a household comprising of predominately females will recognise this argument.

Terrible idea.

If you go to a new town and are not sure if your in a rough pub or not drop 50p into the trough. If it's gone when you go for your next piss get the fuck out of the pub quickly cos your in a dive and you'll probably be glassed within the hour.

On topic, if there were separate bogs for transgenders I would just use them cos they'd probably be the cleanest based on least demand for them. Theres nothing worse when you go into your trap and someone else gets in the next one and takes a shit.

[Amir]

I cleaned loos when I worked at Starbucks.

 

The women's toilets were the stuff of nightmares.

[PappyTron]

1 hour ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

That's because they are mentally ill and parents dressing their little boys as girls and helping them "transition" are guilty of child abuse

You didn't reply to my post telling you that you were wrong in your claims: why am I not surprised about your bitch ass chatting shit and then leaving? Fruity assed quim.

[bran]

5 hours ago, Dazey said:

Transgender is a real condition. Gender fluidity is Miley Cyrus wondering what to do next after everybody gets sick of seeing her growler every five minutes. 

I might have to use that in a future discussion

[Dazey]

8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

There is a pub in Whitley Bay, a particularly rough place, which surely has the worst toilets imaginable. Because of where they're situated and their compactness, every time somebody opens the door, a waft of urine shoots through the pub.

There used to be a club in Middlesbrough called Blaises and the gents toilets in there were amongst the worst I’ve ever seen.

The floor had pretty much collapsed and sunk in the middle of the room meaning that as the night went on the piss that missed the urinals used to gradually form a miniature lake in the middle of the floor.

Many a time I’ve seen people just stand in the doorway and piss on the floor rather than risk wading through it all to get to the urinals.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Dazey