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Feeling Betrayed


D..

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I wonder if anyone feels betrayed like me. 

I've been a fan of Gn'R since 2008, it may seem like nothing to you guys who may have been fan since 1992 or even 1987, but I did believe a lot in Chinese Democracy and Axl's plans.

Back in 2008, my life was falling apart, Chinese Democracy popped up out of nowhere, and helped me through what may have been the worst year of my life (no joke).

In fact, the whole discovery of GN'R kind of saved me. I was watching every video I could find (from the old and new line-ups, whatever), loved every single album, and got to a point where I would

even go running in tight shorts with a bandana. (I know it's ridiculous but discovering this band and especially Axl gave me a huge motivation and I will never thank them enough for that, it's always harder

to thanks than tell what is wrong).

I may be an outsider here, but I actually kind of loved what happened between Axl and Slash. Best friends of the world then best ennemies. I like this idea. I think that your best buddy could eventually turn up

to be your worst enemy, just like the girl you loved the most will be the one you hate the most.

 

I really believed in Chinese Democracy. I loved the album. I remember listening to the Tokyo 2009 bootleg just when it surfaced, I couldn't believe my ears. I wasn't there but listening to it, man... The amount of songs they played and Axl's voice, it was just unbelievable. I thought Axl's comeback though completely unexpected, was glorious.
So much so that when 2010 came, I bought tickets to fly to Norway and went to see the band perform twice there. I met wonderful fans there, and even got to see Axl in person. I told him I loved Chinese Democracy and he replied "Thanks man", ahah.

I even got some affection for Bumblefoot and Ashba, I thought they did the job. You can call Ashba a poser but he was a pretty nice guy. Same goes from Bumble.

 

I've been waiting for CD follow-up since 2008. There are so many mysteries around it, so many titles we still haven't heard.

Kind of hard to explain all this. From 2011 on to 2014, Axl disappointed me so much. No new music, and fuck, he just didn't work out enough. I know that he makes jokes about his weight and so on, but

come on... how can you let yourself go like that? I have a hard time accepting it. Not just talking about his shape, but the voice, damn. It was perfect in 2010, better than 2001, 2002 and 2006. How in hell

did he let go so much? Even from what we've heard from the Troubadour, I'm sorry but it's not good enough.



I used to see him as a maniac, a perfectionist. Now I have a feeling he just goes through the motions.
I ignore if Bumblefoot and Ashba really left on their own or if they were thanked by the management. If they left, then I can understand why Axl reunited. If they were fired, then it's just unacceptable. Wonder what

Bumblefoot feels like, it must have been hard to play for 8 years and leave like that, without creating new music, that fucking sucks.

In any case, this lack of communication is just bullshit.

 

Sure it may please the "fans" who weren't open-minded and considered GN'R to be Axl & Slash. I can understand why, Slash is more charismatic than Bucket, Robin, Bumble and Ashba combined, and let's be honest, I'm happy to see them together again. But still, it's odd, and contrary to what we were led to believe for years, and I hate being cheated.

As for the creativity, guitar playing, the meaning behind all those Chinese Democracy years (right down to the lyrics of some songs), and cohesion of where new GN'R was headed, I don't get why he's back, except for the money.

I can't even listen to CD now, no joke. It's like this album doesn't mean shit anymore. I love the music in there but to me the most important thing were the lyrics, and I could feel what Axl had in mind when writing them, and however "universal" they could seem, they were clearly directed towards people Axl knew, like Slash, Duff, Stephanie and so on.
Now it doesn't mean anything. It feels like bullshit.

To me this tour seems like a huge cash grab, another tour of endless nostalgia with Axl just not in shape (just like 2011-2014 shows were, to me it stopped being awesome with Rock in Rio 2011).

 

I still reserve judgment on that last sentence, I hope Axl will really surprise us, with a new album coming, with really risky songs (like playing Coma live), that he will invite Ashba and Bumble on some dates because they really deserve it, and that eventually he'll get back in perfect shape, that's all I wish him. But really he has to train fucking harder and stop eating too much man... I hate seeing him like this and sounding so-so. Sure, 54 years old but come on, look at Steven Tyler. He can do better than this! He is a fucking legendary frontman. Right now he looks like a regular 54 years-old guy who would have let go and have no ambition in life, no way I'm giving him money if he is not spot on (at least vocally).

 

Anyway, I will watch the Coachella shows this week-end and see how it goes. But as of now, there's no way I'm paying to see them live, not in these conditions. Clear explanations must be given and projects to come. The management of this band is a fucking catastrophee in my eyes, wonder how much the guy managing them is paid, it's just not how you do it. Sure they might make a lot of money right now, but with a better manager, they'd be making a lot more. I for one will not contribute in the near future (if ever) and I consider myself a hardcore fan.

 

Errr yeah I know I sound like a complete asshole but it's really what I feel and what seems true to me. I wouldn't waste time writing all this if I didn't love Axl deeply, that guy and their music saved me in shitty times. Maybe not saved but helped me a lot anyway.

Still I bought a lot of stuff (albums, shirts, tickets) and feel I've contributed a bit to their bank accounts and have a right to express all this. 


Gn'R just has been handled poorly over the years and I feel this is the pinnacle this year. Anyway, for those who enjoy this "reunion", I wish you have a lot of fun going to the shows, I really do, so far I've met great fans, there are no fans like Gn'R fans.
I'm just not happy with how it's been done and feel betrayed overall (still love Axl, but man.. fucking train...)

 

Have a nice day anyway ; )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It was a small sacrifice Axl had to make to save others, you see when the old band fell apart and Axl continued on many of us felt betrayed...many left the fanbase to find stability in their lives. When Axl showed up on MTV with a guy wearing a KFC bucket we all felt betrayed...however there were a small few that were quite happy with it, then one day Axl realized instead of making a few people happy, I'm going to make the whole world happy and thus Axl gave us the reunion! 

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TL;DR

 

What's wrong, sugartits?

 

With this new line up there's a chance to CD2 finally being released on some form (maybe just a few songs)

Remember: Melissa Reesee is Brain's girlfriend and she did something on the so called remix album so her inclusion could indicate new things moving forward (or not, idk)

 

Btw if CD was the album that helped you get through on a hard period, then good for you

 

I would suggest other bands, not GNR and especially not CD for going through hard periods but that's just me

Edited by Strange Broue
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26 minutes ago, D.. said:

I wonder if anyone feels betrayed like me. 

I've been a fan of Gn'R since 2008, it may seem like nothing to you guys who may have been fan since 1992 or even 1987, but I did believe a lot in Chinese Democracy and Axl's plans.

Back in 2008, my life was falling apart, Chinese Democracy popped up out of nowhere, and helped me through what may have been the worst year of my life (no joke).

In fact, the whole discovery of GN'R kind of saved me. I was watching every video I could find (from the old and new line-ups, whatever), loved every single album, and got to a point where I would

even go running in tight shorts with a bandana. (I know it's ridiculous but discovering this band and especially Axl gave me a huge motivation and I will never thank them enough for that, it's always harder

to thanks than tell what is wrong).

I may be an outsider here, but I actually kind of loved what happened between Axl and Slash. Best friends of the world then best ennemies. I like this idea. I think that your best buddy could eventually turn up

to be your worst enemy, just like the girl you loved the most will be the one you hate the most.

 

I really believed in Chinese Democracy. I loved the album. I remember listening to the Tokyo 2009 bootleg just when it surfaced, I couldn't believe my ears. I wasn't there but listening to it, man... The amount of songs they played and Axl's voice, it was just unbelievable. I thought Axl's comeback though completely unexpected, was glorious.
So much so that when 2010 came, I bought tickets to fly to Norway and went to see the band perform twice there. I met wonderful fans there, and even got to see Axl in person. I told him I loved Chinese Democracy and he replied "Thanks man", ahah.

I even got some affection for Bumblefoot and Ashba, I thought they did the job. You can call Ashba a poser but he was a pretty nice guy. Same goes from Bumble.

 

I've been waiting for CD follow-up since 2008. There are so many mysteries around it, so many titles we still haven't heard.

Kind of hard to explain all this. From 2011 on to 2014, Axl disappointed me so much. No new music, and fuck, he just didn't work out enough. I know that he makes jokes about his weight and so on, but

come on... how can you let yourself go like that? I have a hard time accepting it. Not just talking about his shape, but the voice, damn. It was perfect in 2010, better than 2001, 2002 and 2006. How in hell

did he let go so much? Even from what we've heard from the Troubadour, I'm sorry but it's not good enough.



I used to see him as a maniac, a perfectionist. Now I have a feeling he just goes through the motions.
I ignore if Bumblefoot and Ashba really left on their own or if they were thanked by the management. If they left, then I can understand why Axl reunited. If they were fired, then it's just unacceptable. Wonder what

Bumblefoot feels like, it must have been hard to play for 8 years and leave like that, without creating new music, that fucking sucks.

In any case, this lack of communication is just bullshit.

 

Sure it may please the "fans" who weren't open-minded and considered GN'R to be Axl & Slash. I can understand why, Slash is more charismatic than Bucket, Robin, Bumble and Ashba combined, and let's be honest, I'm happy to see them together again. But still, it's odd, and contrary to what we were led to believe for years, and I hate being cheated.

As for the creativity, guitar playing, the meaning behind all those Chinese Democracy years (right down to the lyrics of some songs), and cohesion of where new GN'R was headed, I don't get why he's back, except for the money.

I can't even listen to CD now, no joke. It's like this album doesn't mean shit anymore. I love the music in there but to me the most important thing were the lyrics, and I could feel what Axl had in mind when writing them, and however "universal" they could seem, they were clearly directed towards people Axl knew, like Slash, Duff, Stephanie and so on.
Now it doesn't mean anything. It feels like bullshit.

To me this tour seems like a huge cash grab, another tour of endless nostalgia with Axl just not in shape (just like 2011-2014 shows were, to me it stopped being awesome with Rock in Rio 2011).

 

I still reserve judgment on that last sentence, I hope Axl will really surprise us, with a new album coming, with really risky songs (like playing Coma live), that he will invite Ashba and Bumble on some dates because they really deserve it, and that eventually he'll get back in perfect shape, that's all I wish him. But really he has to train fucking harder and stop eating too much man... I hate seeing him like this and sounding so-so. Sure, 54 years old but come on, look at Steven Tyler. He can do better than this! He is a fucking legendary frontman. Right now he looks like a regular 54 years-old guy who would have let go and have no ambition in life, no way I'm giving him money if he is not spot on (at least vocally).

 

Anyway, I will watch the Coachella shows this week-end and see how it goes. But as of now, there's no way I'm paying to see them live, not in these conditions. Clear explanations must be given and projects to come. The management of this band is a fucking catastrophee in my eyes, wonder how much the guy managing them is paid, it's just not how you do it. Sure they might make a lot of money right now, but with a better manager, they'd be making a lot more. I for one will not contribute in the near future (if ever) and I consider myself a hardcore fan.

 

Errr yeah I know I sound like a complete asshole but it's really what I feel and what seems true to me. I wouldn't waste time writing all this if I didn't love Axl deeply, that guy and their music saved me in shitty times. Maybe not saved but helped me a lot anyway.

Still I bought a lot of stuff (albums, shirts, tickets) and feel I've contributed a bit to their bank accounts and have a right to express all this. 


Gn'R just has been handled poorly over the years and I feel this is the pinnacle this year. Anyway, for those who enjoy this "reunion", I wish you have a lot of fun going to the shows, I really do, so far I've met great fans, there are no fans like Gn'R fans.
I'm just not happy with how it's been done and feel betrayed overall (still love Axl, but man.. fucking train...)

 

Have a nice day anyway ; )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the cd era had run its course. nobody cared anymore.

axl, slash and duff are doing the right thing to keep gnr alive.

Edited by supercool
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OP,

I've been a fan since 1988 so I can't relate emotionally, but I see where you're coming from.

Original GNR helped me through childhood/teen years.

and I felt betrayed when Axl betrayed Slash.

so yeah, the other way around.

But it takes guts to post what you just posted when most of us are happy so more power to you.

I hope you'll eventually get cool with things. this reunion is dope.

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"Keeping Gn'R alive" is what Axl has done for a long time, with a creative mind and a project (he totally lost it from 2011 onward)

This reunion seems like "keeping cash coming". Gn'R has been dead for the past 5 years to me. Believe me I'm happy to see Slash, Duff and Axl stand to each other, cool for them (except that it basically contradicts everything Axl stood for during 17 years but whatever I guess).

The lack of vision, project, and communication gives me absolutely no hope and excitement.

 

I do understand your positions if you're fans from the old era, makes sense you're happier than me. I wonder though if you're really content with Axl's vocal prestation... looking forward to the stream of this week-end, with a proper soundboard, I think it'll appear clearer that he's not  on his A-game...

 

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You lost me at inviting Ashba to perform ;-) He contributed nothing except helping get the band on the road by filling Robin's position. I'd like to see Robin and Bucket pop up here and there.

Not sure if this is a hooray for tolerance! attempt, but in any case: I'm with you on the sad feeling regarding the end of the CD era and the departure of some members. I do believe there was a vision, an objective with the lineup behind CD as an album (Bucket / Brain & Frank / Robin / Tommy) then things started to fall apart. What we saw on the CD tour (2009-2010) was not meant to be (Ron / DJ) and IMO was 'second best'. I had a lot of faith in the album, in the fact that it would have significant impact on the scene. It had on me, I absolutely love it, and it got a lot of good reviews but it wasn't the storm I was hoping for. Same goes for the tour (2009-2010) - it was very successful in both attendance and performance but again, not like it was storming the music world by surprise.

I'm happy that Slash is back, same goes for Duff - I'm also happy we still have Frank and Richard, because they earned their place and I like what they do. I'd like to know how Tommy left, I hope he wasn't pushed out because he gave a lot for the band. Unless all was clear from day 1 but remember the first Hammerstein show? He said he was having a great time and that meant a lot for Axl (right before they played TWAT). So I assume it was already difficult for him then but he stood by Axl, I suppose in order to see the end of CD and to take it on the road.

Bottom line, if Axl's happy, if everybody's happy and if their heart are in the right place, I don't see the problem. But yeah, some of us invested a lot of faith in the Chinese era - I'm happy we have the album, I'm happy I've seen the tour in 2010. When I saw it in 2012 it was already different (Axl's voice, setlist).

Let's see what the future holds! A few days to go ;-)

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If Axl really wanted to, the era would have been complete with two or more albums. He wouldn't have sat on CD for so long and make it sound "perfect" (whatever that means - and because stealing whatever the hell was stolen at the start of Riad is 'perfection'). If he cared enough, CD II would have come out. The era was reduced to a residency in Las Vegas because so few people cared. In the end, Axl included. It died.

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As much as I love seeing Slash and Duff back in GnR, and as much as I would like for Stevie and Izzy to come back to the band I admit that I would have liked to hear new music from that incarnation of GnR. I consider CD to be the best and most quality consistent record from star to end since AFD and had a personal connection to the lyrics but in no way do I feel betrayed by Axl nor do I believe the reunion erases that era or it's importance.

Axl and the band does not owe us a single damn thing.

People change all the time and the motive for the tour/reunion between those parties are unknown to us. After witnessing their first show at The Troubador I don't believe that this is a money grab. Axl has sounded and performed better than in recent years; he legitimately looked happy and felt comfortable on the stage, dancing, interacting with fans and other members, jumping and doing his thing. He looked like a new person with newfound confidence.

As for the CD era songs they played, they sounded different than on record a bit more raw, rock with a punkish vibe (Chinese).

Slash seemed a bit reserved at first but he was also the member that was in GnR the longest. I'm sure it was an emotional night for him but midway through it he and Axl were interacting more, smiling and laughing.

Whether there is new music with this lineup, we can only hope. It could be a continuation of what CD started but more "rock" and less overproduced. We just don't know. We do know, based on interviews, that Ashba and Bumblefoot had shared material with Axl. Where they fired or did they quit? We don't know. But it could be that that music was not released with that line up because there was no spark. Perhaps that spark will rekindle with these guys, perhaps that is the reason why they touring, because they are grown men and realized that there was magic among them and are giving it a second go?

We just don't know anything and it's too early to really make any sort of judgement in regards to the direction. We had one show that many that were there rave about.

I'm simply happy that it finally happened, that those two long friends were able to put aside their differences and are at least giving this a chance.

 

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People say the Chinese Democracy era had run its course, and I agree, yes it had. But then do what every other band on the planet does and release another bloody album. That's kind of what bands do y'know. They release a record, tour it for 2-3 years, take a break, then do another record and repeat the cycle.

I can't help but feel as if this reunion is just another way for Axl to procrastinate putting out new music. Out of all of this, the guy I feel most sorry for is Ron Thal. Unllike BH or Finck, he was loyal, great with the fans, put in the years and was a consummate professional. Add to that, he is one of the worlds greatest guitar virtuosos. I can't help but feel as if Axl strung Ron along all these years, which is a pretty dick-move to do, but then I guess looking at the way he's treated members of original Guns in the past, it's no great surprise. It is a shame, because I felt like Ron-Axl could've gone on to do some pretty dope stuff together. I loved Ron's contribution on Chinese, the lead guitar licks on the outro verse of Catcher, or the crazy fretless shit on Shacklers. Was it GNR? Probably not, certainly in the traditional sense and it sounded nothing like the AFD/UYI band. But it was cool as fuck nonetheless and way more interesting than what other rock bands were putting out (including Slash's bands).

I am open minded about the reunion and really want Axl to prove me wrong. I'm one of the few fans that doesn't really care too much about Mickey vocals and rasp etc, I just want a new fucking album out of the band. GNR have one of the smallest back catalogues of any veteran act I can think of and I can only get so excited seeing them perform the same old songs again and again.

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38 minutes ago, D.. said:

"I actually kind of loved what happened between Axl and Slash. Best friends of the world then best enemies. I like this idea. I think that your best buddy could eventually turn up to be your worst enemy, just like the girl you loved the most will be the one you hate the most."
 

The fact that you think this almost makes me lose any sympathy for you. You sound delusional mate. You're happy that two great friends became enemies? This is the real world, not a bloody soap opera. They're real people in the real world, not entertaining silhouettes that just dance around for your own amusement.

There's a lot I could say to this that I won't. I'll just add this though, you should try not to let your unbalanced expectations and attachments ruin the things that mean something to you, what was then is then and what is now is now. Things change but the present doesn't change the past, it's good that it helped you through tough times.

Also, if Ashba and Bumblefoot etc for some insane reason joined them on stage when I was attending, I'd bottle them! lol fucking no thanks

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I was a huge fan of the possibilities of the CD era, but it became increasingly clear and disappointing from somewhere in '06 on that it wasn't going to be the creative juggernaut I was hoping for in '02. The whole thing just steadily lost steam which is sad. 

But since I grew up with GNR, now that Slash and Duff are back, the whole CD era seems like a weird dream.

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4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

The fact that you think this almost makes me lose any sympathy for you. You sound delusional mate. You're happy that two great friends became enemies? This is the real world, not a bloody soap opera. They're real people in the real world, not entertaining silhouettes that just dance around for your own amusement.

There's a lot I could say to this that I won't. I'll just add this though, you should try not to let your unbalanced expectations and attachments ruin the things that mean something to you, what was then is then and what is now is now. Things change but the present doesn't change the past, it's good that it helped you through tough times.

Also, if Ashba and Bumblefoot etc for some insane reason joined them on stage when I was attending, I'd bottle them! lol fucking no thanks

But you could've said the exact same thing about the fans pining for a reunion for the last 23 years.....

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26 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

The fact that you think this almost makes me lose any sympathy for you. You sound delusional mate. You're happy that two great friends became enemies? This is the real world, not a bloody soap opera. They're real people in the real world, not entertaining silhouettes that just dance around for your own amusement.

There's a lot I could say to this that I won't. I'll just add this though, you should try not to let your unbalanced expectations and attachments ruin the things that mean something to you, what was then is then and what is now is now. Things change but the present doesn't change the past, it's good that it helped you through tough times.

Also, if Ashba and Bumblefoot etc for some insane reason joined them on stage when I was attending, I'd bottle them! lol fucking no thanks

Jesus F. Christ, i just read that part and holy fuck

 

our OP is really have some problems mentally, imho

 

 

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Guitarists came and went. And a drummer. Axl didn't betray NuGNR, he clung to it long after it betrayed him.

In every way it would have been better if the last tour never happened. All it did was serve to turn Axl into a joke with all those 'disaster' videos. One show in and we haven't had any disasters to add to the collection so far. Keep it up, Axl! 

 

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10 minutes ago, Strange Broue said:

Yeah, but they owe the audicence(people whom actually bought ticket) with great performances. This means that Mickey mouse has to go totally! 

Funnily enough, from the reviews I have read, and I read all I can find, people in the audiences don't typically complain about Axl's vocals. Even during the period 2011-2014 he was mostly praised or it was never affecting the complete experience to such a degree people left unsatisfied. This is mostly a problem here on this forum where we have hardcore fars who scrutinize everything about GN'R, biter fans who disagree with "nuGuns", and youtube warriors who obsess over some parts of the total concert experience.

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I'm a fan since 2004... I miss the 2006 - 2007 era and of course 2009 - 2010.. Rock In Rio 2011 was a big letdown. I hate 2011 - 2014 era.

 

I hope Axl is getting better. I want to hear the rasp again.. 2006 and 2010 were amazing!!!

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