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Got all the lithos from the shows I've been to so far up in my basement music room    

Thank you to everybody who helped make this possible. You know who you are

Maybe some of you would like to see a poster design that went unapproved.  I figure it would be fun to see.  This was supposed to be for the Vegas shows for tomorrow and Saturday.  Since there hasn't

Posted Images

Yeah, that's been in there.  Check my "archive" thread for the stuff that's there and what's missing.

Arian Buhler or the GNR Twitter account provided really great clean graphics for most of them, but there are still a lot missing that only have low-res pics I grabbed either in this thread or on ebay.  I'm always trying to upgrade the images!

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That robert guy from ebay is selling those san diego lithos, that the designer sold a while ago, for 500$ a piece. I know that ripoff is reading this forum. Its a shame some people dont have an ounce of dignity left in their shallow souls.

Edited by xBrownstonex
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3 hours ago, xBrownstonex said:

That robert guy from ebay is selling those san diego lithos, that the designer sold a while ago, for 500$ a piece. I know that ripoff is reading this forum. Its a shame some people dont have an ounce of dignity left in their shallow souls.

I can vouch for robert, if he's the seller in California - I've purchased 2 or 3 prints from him and they were perfect. 

as for ripping people off - it's all a matter of supply and demand. he's (and others) in the business of selling prints and if the demand is there, people will pay what they can. i certainly overpaid for many prints that i would have gotten for much less had i waited until now when the demand for them had died down...

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fyi - i have a local guy who sells on ebay, that can get the 2 las vegas prints (2 of each day) and 2 sets of the 3 Hollywood Troubador prints (the 3 different colored square prints)..

I'm interested in trading for other countries' prints if anyone is interested. I already have some japan prints, so the ones from Japan I'd be interested in are the Kobe and Osaka prints (obviously lol)

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16 minutes ago, xBrownstonex said:

He is making money off other peoples work and selling stuff for a shitload more of their value. Plus he is taking a fuckload of money off gnr fans. Thats immoral and lack of character.

lol so the car you probably drive - made by other people and priced at current demand prices - it was immoral for the dealership to make a profit off of the car because you were a fan of it and that's why you bought it?

c'mon people - if the prints didn't sell to GnR fans for the prices they sell at, the lack of demand would drive the prices down like they have for other less popular GnR prints...and after all, who besides a GnR fan would be paying these prices for some of the rarer prints?

it's called supply and demand. the foundation of every open market. don't like the prices? don't buy. if enough people do this, the demand goes down and that drives the prices down. 

sitting there and getting butt hurt because someone who has a business of selling lithographs is asking as much as they think they can get for a print, is ignorant and childish. 

just because you can't afford the asking price, or don't want to pay it, doesn't make the seller immoral.

suggesting that the seller is sitting there thinking to himself, "I wonder how much i can rip off GnR fans for" is idiotic - the sellers don't care who buys the prints, they only care that they sell them. so you thinking that the sellers are "targeting" GnR fans is ignorant. 

Edited by Royalh13
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I never said he is targeting anyone. But of course only fellow fans will buy these. And i think its bullshit to rip people off within a community which you are part of yourself. And people who have to buy these san diego lithos off ebay maybe didnt get the chance to buy them from the artist for a reasonable price, cause mr. Robert bought a shitload himself, so he can sell them for 500 each. 

and the car example is totally misleading since its a totally different matter.  

Edited by xBrownstonex
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It's bullshit that a motherfucker stands in a merch line with the singular goal of buying up all the lithos, while real fans are trying to hang out, talk to some other fans, listen to some GnR cranked on a car speaker, and drink some beers in the parking lot. 

Fuck the eBayers. We need a 2 per customer limit.

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4 minutes ago, xBrownstonex said:

I never said he is targeting anyone. But of course only fellow fans will buy these. And i think its bullshit to rip people off within a community which you are part of yourself.

and the car example is totally misleading since its a totally different matter.  

It's not ripping anyone off though - it's called business. Who said he or any other seller on ebay is part of the GnR family? Most of the sellers do it as a business, so of course, part of a successful business is making a profit.

Car example is the PERFECT example - it demonstrates how silly anyone who uses the same argument, really is.

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7 minutes ago, Royalh13 said:

It's not ripping anyone off though - it's called business. Who said he or any other seller on ebay is part of the GnR family? Most of the sellers do it as a business, so of course, part of a successful business is making a profit.

Car example is the PERFECT example - it demonstrates how silly anyone who uses the same argument, really is.

It's called a dick move.

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21 minutes ago, Royalh13 said:

It's not ripping anyone off though - it's called business. Who said he or any other seller on ebay is part of the GnR family? Most of the sellers do it as a business, so of course, part of a successful business is making a profit.

Car example is the PERFECT example - it demonstrates how silly anyone who uses the same argument, really is.

Its not a business. Its something fans do/want as a hobby.

imagine i am standing at a market and buying all the fruits there are, and there arent any fruits left for the people standing behind me in line. Then i sell those fruits on the other side of the street for 300% of the original price. That would be a shitty and Unmoral move

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1 hour ago, Fitha_whiskey said:

It's bullshit that a motherfucker stands in a merch line with the singular goal of buying up all the lithos, while real fans are trying to hang out, talk to some other fans, listen to some GnR cranked on a car speaker, and drink some beers in the parking lot. 

Fuck the eBayers. We need a 2 per customer limit.

fyi - i am not saying i like the fact that the prints are priced so sky high (certain ones), but i am saying that this is what an open market is - demand drives supply and prices. thinking anything other than this is ignorant. 

the fact is, that the sellers who do this as a business have the exact same chances as any GnR fan has, to buy prints. The fact that they can buy multiples, which deprives other GnR fans from buying them, is the same problem that you may have experienced buying a ticket to the show. 

tickets are snapped up by secondary ticket sellers and are resold at very inflated prices.  something ticketmaster is aware of but can't seem to combat successfully.  The difference is that some of these secondary ticket resellers use multiple off-shore resources to defeat the captchas and bombard the ticket system with tons of seemingly legit ticket purchasers, who then buy up as much as they can which then deprives the rest of us from our chance to get tickets. 

I purchased prints from another local guy who's 2nd job is selling concert stuff on ebay and the steps he has to go through to get multiple prints for resale are pretty crazy.

for example, he works with a 2nd person (his brother) to get the prints. they purchase multiple tickets - the cheapest ones they can (so they're not really depriving many real GnR fans and since they're only buying 4 or 6 tix, they aren't depriving tons of people).

they get there super early to get in towards the front of the entrance line and when they get in, they go directly to the merch tables and buy as many as they're allowed. they then take the prints back to their car and use another ticket for entrance.  then they go to another merch table and repeat the process.

they also drive to other cities to do the same steps

so this guy drove from LA to San Diego for prints. Drove from LA to San Francisco,  etc...

He told me that he will also offer people at the merch tables a "bounty" to get more prints for them, if they're sold out. Either from other stations or from the "back room" etc.

So none of what he does is a secret, since he told it all to me, and everyone has the opportunities to do what they do. 

The real problem is the fact that prints aren't limited to 1 per person and even if they are supposedto be, how many merch tables actually impose that rule? Also, if you go to a different merch table, how will they know you've already got your 1 for the day? 

The other problem is the fact that some of the people at the merch booths will take the bounty and hold out prints to sell only to the buyer.

once these problems are addressesd, then we all will have a fair chance to get a print at the $50 price.

Until they are though, don't blame the ebay sellers for taking advantage of a broken system - which you all have the opportunity to take advantage of also.

Also, like i mentioned way back in the thread, that sammy guy ebay seller told me he has a connection at the warehouse where they distribute prints, and probably other merch from, to each of the shows. The fact that the warehouse person is holding on to prints for him, instead of sending them all out to the different shows, is another issue that needs to be fixed.

The guy i mentioned that can get me the Las Vegas and Troubador prints also has a friend that works at one of the printers or at the print distribution places, i can't remember which, but he only has access to a limited number of designs. This person, that works wherever, is still an issue that needs to be addressed.

I actually pay for the prints that I'm offering to trade on this forum, but not at an exorbitant price, but still higher than what they cost at the shows, however I'm not trying to take advantage by selling at inflated prices or trade values...

59 minutes ago, Fitha_whiskey said:

It's called a dick move.

This may be true...

Edited by Royalh13
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11 minutes ago, xBrownstonex said:

Its not a business. Its something fans do/want as a hobby.

imagine i am standing at a market and buying all the fruits there are, and there arent any fruits left for the people standing behind me in line. Then i sell those fruits on the other side of the street for 300% of the original price. That would be a shitty and Unmoral move

fruit is singular and plural, so no need to say "fruits" and you're wrong - some of these sellers are doing it as a job, as i mentioned above. Robert in Venice California sells many different band prints, iirc, and so do the local guys i mentioned.

Going back to your FRUIT example, it's not illegal to buy all the fruit and reselling it. Yes it's probably a dick move and/or IMMORAL, but it's still not illegal.

The grocery store would need to impose a purchase limit, which they don't, to combat this.

So really, isn't it the grocery store or GnR management that is at fault for not imposing and enforcing a purchase limit?

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3 minutes ago, Royalh13 said:

fyi - i am not saying i like the fact that the prints are priced so sky high (certain ones), but i am saying that this is what an open market is - demand drives supply and prices. thinking anything other than this is ignorant. 

the fact is, that the sellers who do this as a business have the exact same chances as any GnR fan has to buy prints. The fact that they can buy multiples, which deprives other GnR fans from buying them, is the same problem that you may have experienced buying a ticket to the show. 

tickets are snapped up by secondary ticket sellers and are resold at very inflated prices.  something ticketmaster is aware of but can't seem to combat successfully.  The difference is that some of these secondary ticket resellers use multiple off-shore resources to defeat the captchas and bombard the ticket system with tons of seemingly legit ticket purchasers, who then buy up as much as they can wiuch deprives the rest of us from our chance to get tickets. 

I purchased prints from another local guy who's 2nd job is selling concert stuff on ebay and the steps he has to go through to get multiple prints for resale are pretty crazy.

for example, he works with a 2nd person (his brother) to get the prints. they purchase multiple tickets - the cheapest ones they can (so they're not really depriving many real GnR fans and since they're only buying 4 or 6 tix, they aren't depriving tons of people).

they get there super early to get in towards the front of the entrance line and when they get in, they go directly to the merch tables and buy as many as they're allowed. they then take the prints back to the car and use another ticket for entrance.  then they go to another merch table and repeat the process.

they also drive to other cities to do the same steps

so this guy drove from LA to San Diego for prints. Drove from LA to San Francisco,  etc...

He told me that he will also offer people at the merch tables a "bounty" to get more prints for them, if they're sold out. Either from other stations or from the "back room" etc.

So none of what he does is a secret, since he told it all to me, and everyone has the opportunities to do what they do. 

The real problem is the fact that prints aren't limited to 1 per person and even if they are supposedto be, how many merch tables actually impose that rule? Also, if you go to a different merch table, how will they know you've already got your 1 for the day? 

The other problem is the fact that some of the people at the merch booths will take the bounty and hold out prints to sell only to the buyer.

once these problems are addressesd, then we all will have a fair chance to get a print at the $50 price.

Until they are though, don't blame the ebay sellers for taking advantage of a broken system - which you all have the opportunity to take advantage of also.

Also, like i mentioned way back in the thread, that sammy guy ebay seller told me he has a connection at the warehouse where they distribute prints, and probably other merch, from to each of the shows. so the fact that the warehouse person is holding on to prints for him, instead of sending them all out to the different shows, is another issue that needs to be fixed.

The guy i mentioned that can get me the Las Vegas and Troubador prints also has a friend that works at one of the printers or at the print distribution places, i can't remember which, but he only has access to a limited number of designs. This person that works wherever, is still an issue that needs to be addressed.

I actually pay for the prints that I'm offering to trade on this forum, but not at an exorbitant price, but still higher than what they cost at the shows, but I'm not trying to take advantage by selling at inflated prices or trade values...

Well aren't you a fuckin giant of fuckin capitalism. I'm sorry- but I gotta say- fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

Those things are for fans to buy. Not for fuck sticks like you & your friends to make a profit on. I understand supply and demand, but again, fuck you & your friends for ripping off fans. 

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4 minutes ago, xBrownstonex said:

We wouldnt have these problems if those people would have had a proper education and with that, got a real job where they earned money. That way, they didnt have to make a living by ripping other people off.

You must be pretty young - mid 20's? because your logic and debate points are pretty ignorant/childish. 

The proper education? the proper education would be for the warehouse/printers to make sure their employees aren't taking advantage of the fact that they have access to these prints before anyone else and are withholding them from distribution.  Also, some artists and printers may be given a certain number of prints as partial payment, to do wjth as they like. so who knows if the prints j can get from my local guy weren't actually given to them for them to do wjat they want with?

These are called Printer's Proofs and Artist's Proofs.. read up on expressobeans.com about different types of prints. For example, Sara Ray was allowed to make all of her different Artist's Prints to sell.

And a "real job"? So working in a warehouse or print shop isn't a "real job"? if no one had these "real" jobs, then who would make and ship prints? Again, the issue is that these prints aren't tracked and accounted for at the delivery endpoint or along the way - no one is sitting there at the merch booth saying "these are from a limited run of 250 and there are only 240 being delivered, so where are the other 10?"

ripping people off - tough one. they aren't ripping off any 1 person because if there are only 240 prints at the merch booth, then there are only 240 to sell. the missing 10 weren't promised to anyone and then withdrawn,  which is what ripping someoneoff would truly be. 

After all, even if all 250 prints made it to the merch booth, do you actually believe all 250 of those prints get sold to fans?  if you do, you're in for a shock. Have you ever seen anyone here with print #1 of a certain design? shit, ever see anyone with #10?

Unlikely that you have, unless that person has a connection which I believe the one person on here who has a # below 11, has.  

The very lowest numbers will probably get distributed to the band, their friends, their family, their management,  the concert venue management, the printers and the artists. 

Do you really think that all 250 are meant to be sold to the public?

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20 minutes ago, xBrownstonex said:

I never complained about it being illegal. I just said it makes you a bad human being.

no, not necessarily a bad human being. they are just human and taking advantage of a broken system - which we could say is a dick move, but so is getting a speeding ticket for 68 MPH in a 65 MPH zone a dick move by the cop, even though "technically" you were at fault...

 

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Guys, guys.

There's a million different problems with the current merch setup and they all have different effects on the availability and price of limited edition items like lithos.

A guy can pay people to stand in line for him, a guy can have a friend at the factory etc. But honestly, the single biggest problem for me is people buying big amounts in one hit. If they simply enforced a 2-per-person limit, that would make things a lot LOT more difficult. Sure, someone could go line up again but that's a lot more time and effort but if he would've bought 10 lithos normally, then it easily takes five times more effort to get the same volume of lithos. It wouldn't get rid of all the problems but I think it would make a big difference.

I have no problem with people making a living reselling merchandise. But in some mysterious perfect world, I would rather buy direct from the artist or GnR or whatever. We don't live in a perfect world so we have to live with resellers. The resellers are just making the most of a flawed system; I think fixing the problem (the selling procedure) instead of addressing the symptom (people making money from reselling) would be the better reaction.

 

Also, fruits is a legitimate word. In casual conversation and most situations we use 'fruit' to refer to a group of fruit. But we can use 'fruits' to refer to multiple, individual pieces of fruit or multiple specific groups of fruit. It used to be based on whether it was a countable noun or non-countable noun but that's no longer the case. But for example, "I eat a lot of fruit" is fine and so is "This drink is a delicious blend of various fruits" - This is a quirk of English that can be occur with many plurals - there are situations where we can use moneys/monies instead of money, persons instead of person etc.

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26 minutes ago, Fitha_whiskey said:

Well aren't you a fuckin giant of fuckin capitalism. I'm sorry- but I gotta say- fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

Those things are for fans to buy. Not for fuck sticks like you & your friends to make a profit on. I understand supply and demand, but again, fuck you & your friends for ripping off fans. 

LOLOLOL...

I don't sell them for a profit and I've probably spent thousands buying all the US  prints for my own collection.

The extra ones i have for trade are ones that i wasn't happy with because of minor defects and i ended up buying another mint copy to keep.

The ones I posted about today, i posted because i have someone looking to trade prints from his country for some that i knew i could get from a local and i figured I'd give others the same opportunity to trade prints, if interested.

How would someone like me collect all these prints for my own collection, if they weren't listed on ebay? do you think every GnR fan is on this forum or even knows about it? Or are you suggesting that "real" GnR fans should travel to all of the different countries and cities to buy their prints in person? 

So is it ok that some forum members buy more than 1 print and trade the extra one(s) to other forum members? Isn't that depriving another "real" GnR fan the opportunity to obtain a print?

Get real - you can't have it both ways and then get pissed off because someone wants more money than you're willing to spend.

And you telling me to fuck off because you don't like what i have to say or don't like the fact i destoyed your arguments (with facts) just goes to prove how.much  of a child you are...

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