Family/Friends Situation- Advice Requested

[Słash]

So a friend of mine has a friend who is in this situation, so your opinion/suggestions would be appreciated

So well this guy married his high school sweet heart, they met in the 9th grade and fell in love with each and after finishing college they got married, they were really in love with each other. The girl was from a very rich family and the guy was not that rich, but he was earning good enough, they adjusted their lifestyles and all, the girl loved to party, but the guy was the opposite he din't party nor he drank, but he never forced the girl that don't do this or that. Both of them understood each other very well

After a year they had a daughter and the mother of the daughter went in to post pregnancy depression, it was pretty bad and 2 months before the girls birthday the mother leaves the house, she says she can't do this anymore and gives the custody of the daughter to the father.

Now the daughter is 4 years old, in these 4 years the mother has not come to meet her nor talked to her, the father married another girl, this new wife treats the daughter like her own child, the child doesn't knows that its not her real mother.

So well now the question is that 

1. Should they tell the daughter about her real mother?

2. If yes, then what is the right age to do so?

3. How will they tell her?

 

[Gracii Guns]

Made this its own thread as it could get quite long, and some valid contributions might be missed in General Chat. 

[Whiskey Rose]

Whoa. Very very heavy stuff. 1) Yes, they need to tell her, she has every right to know her true parentage  2) They need to wait until she is mature enough to process it, maybe around 12 yrs old..this will give her enough time to assimilate the info and still before the teen years where she will be going thru another type of upheaval.. 3) They can sit down and say "you know how much we love you, you are our daughter..but 12 years ago, daddy had another wife, and they had a daughter..and that daughter was you"..and then go into the story.  They also need to be ready for some acting out, from being rejected by her natural mother, and the potential desire for her to make contact with her. But the woman who has raised her is her mother, and your friends daughter will ultimately know this. My goodness. What a situation. Good luck to them.

[wasted]

Run, run away!

[Słash]

10 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

Whoa. Very very heavy stuff. 1) Yes, they need to tell her, she has every right to know her true parentage  2) They need to wait until she is mature enough to process it, maybe around 12 yrs old..this will give her enough time to assimilate the info and still before the teen years where she will be going thru another type of upheaval.. 3) They can sit down and say "you know how much we love you, you are our daughter..but 12 years ago, daddy had another wife, and they had a daughter..and that daughter was you"..and then go into the story.  They also need to be ready for some acting out, from being rejected by her natural mother, and the potential desire for her to make contact with her. But the woman who has raised her is her mother, and your friends daughter will ultimately know this. My goodness. What a situation. Good luck to them.

It is a pretty depressing situation, some people say 6 to 7 years is the right age, but personally I think its too early. 

She is just 4 now and she is so friendly and cute, thinking about this brings tears in my eyes. I would say 11 to 12 would be the right age but again you don't know kids these days, like they go in to depression or become Emo or something like that.

I told my friend that 11 would be a good age to tell her, she has a right to know her real mother, but this real mother doesn't even cares, like not even once she came to meet, its like the child is no more for her. The new wife is very friendly and she said she won't have kids of her own cause she just wants to bring up the child and she really treats her like her own child.

[Gracii Guns]

It might have been left a bit late, but is it possible to bring a child up with the understanding from infancy about something like this? So there isn't a "big reveal" all of a sudden, but they understand that the lady who cares for her like a mother, isn't legally/biologically her mother, but loves her like one? Then that would be normal for the child. 

I'm reading this thread for my own benefit too; if the hubby and I are blessed with kids, we're going to have to one day explain why they're not allowed to see their grandad, while their cousins can. 

[Whiskey Rose]

5 minutes ago, Slash787 said:

It is a pretty depressing situation, some people say 6 to 7 years is the right age, but personally I think its too early. 

She is just 4 now and she is so friendly and cute, thinking about this brings tears in my eyes. I would say 11 to 12 would be the right age but again you don't know kids these days, like they go in to depression or become Emo or something like that.

I told my friend that 11 would be a good age to tell her, she has a right to know her real mother, but this real mother doesn't even cares, like not even once she came to meet, its like the child is no more for her. The new wife is very friendly and she said she won't have kids of her own cause she just wants to bring up the child and she really treats her like her own child.

I cannot even fathom the type of woman who could do this to her own child. but equally, she is blessed that her father found such a wonderful woman who has taken on the true mother role. And yes, you are right, it wouldn't hurt to have some counselling available for her if she wants to contact her bio mom and the bio mom is not interested, which sounds like is the case.

[Whiskey Rose]

4 minutes ago, Gracii Guns said:

It might have been left a bit late, but is it possible to bring a child up with the understanding from infancy about something like this? So there isn't a "big reveal" all of a sudden, but they understand that the lady who cares for her like a mother, isn't legally/biologically her mother, but loves her like one? Then that would be normal for the child. 

I'm reading this thread for my own benefit too; if the hubby and I are blessed with kids, we're going to have to one day explain why they're not allowed to see their grandad, while their cousins can. 

Yes, I see where you are coming from; it's like kids who come from a divorced family at a very young age and don't remember anything else other than two homes, mom and dad have girlfirends, etc..in some ways these children are better adjusted than their older counterparts who have to go through the same situation at a later age..although for this type of situation, I guess in a way it would be so very abstract for a child to call one woman mommy and then having to bring out a picture or something and say No, this is mommy..it would definitely take some finangling! But in your case Gracii, if I may comment, I probably wouldn't even mention the can't seeing granddad thing until they question it..and then you can explain why..

[Dan H.]

Yeah, the kid should know. I think maybe 6 or 7 would be fine to explain the different mommy scenario, without too much detail. She can ask further questions as she gets older. 12 is probably fine too, but it is awfully close to the teenage years, which may make it more emotionally significant as teens are so hormonal.

As for how to tell her? Well I'm terrible at talking to children, but most people say being simple and straightforward is the best way, right?

[Słash]

42 minutes ago, Whiskey Rose said:

I cannot even fathom the type of woman who could do this to her own child. 

I have seen one, my cousin was in a similar situation, he was 5 when his mom left him, but he was old enough to know that yeah he had this mom and she left him forever, She din't even contact him once, nor she came to meet him, no one would have stopped her from coming to meet him, but she din't care.

I thought on his 18th birthday she would call him, but nope no call at all. Like how can someone totally forget their own child, like how can you not remember him on his birthday, like you gave birth to that kid on that day.

He did finally meet her when he turned 20, he himself made the effort to meet her, she made no effort, now they do meet sometimes, but she still doesn't cares. Of course he will love her cause its still his mom.

It did bring a psychological effect on him, my mom and my aunts did bought him up and treated like their own child, from toys to going on holidays, we did everything for him and still do for him, but still he acts in a weird way, if we want to give him or do something for him then he just rejects it, he has stopped going out with us, he just lives in his own delusional world. 

[ZoSoRose]

11 hours ago, Slash787 said:

I have seen one, my cousin was in a similar situation, he was 5 when his mom left him, but he was old enough to know that yeah he had this mom and she left him forever, She din't even contact him once, nor she came to meet him, no one would have stopped her from coming to meet him, but she din't care.

I thought on his 18th birthday she would call him, but nope no call at all. Like how can someone totally forget their own child, like how can you not remember him on his birthday, like you gave birth to that kid on that day.

He did finally meet her when he turned 20, he himself made the effort to meet her, she made no effort, now they do meet sometimes, but she still doesn't cares. Of course he will love her cause its still his mom.

It did bring a psychological effect on him, my mom and my aunts did bought him up and treated like their own child, from toys to going on holidays, we did everything for him and still do for him, but still he acts in a weird way, if we want to give him or do something for him then he just rejects it, he has stopped going out with us, he just lives in his own delusional world. 

Blood doesn't make family imo, it's the relationship you have with someone. His kid's mom is his "new" wife from what it sounds like.

That being said, the child should know. Maybe not at 4 years of age, but at 6 or so? I just feel like they may be too young to grasp the situation. Heavy situation, but I'm glad they have a family who's cares!

[Len Cnut]

Yeah, just tell her she has two Mums, dont hang onto it and let her find out or reveal it to her in her later years.  At the risk of sounding like I'm making a joke about this a great deal of serial killers were told they had other parentage than what they grew up thinking as teens, Ted Bundy, Paul Bernardo for two examples.  When you know something from baby age onwards then its just normal to you but when its revealed in your teens when you're all hormonal and mental anyway and it can fuck you up mentally.  A lot of people, famous people (just pointing em out cuz they're examples we know about) John Lennon, Eric Clapton had shit like this sprung on them in their teens and it fucked them up.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Len B'stard

[Len Cnut]

12 hours ago, Gracii Guns said:

It might have been left a bit late, but is it possible to bring a child up with the understanding from infancy about something like this? So there isn't a "big reveal" all of a sudden, but they understand that the lady who cares for her like a mother, isn't legally/biologically her mother, but loves her like one? Then that would be normal for the child. 

I'm reading this thread for my own benefit too; if the hubby and I are blessed with kids, we're going to have to one day explain why they're not allowed to see their grandad, while their cousins can. 

Why wouldn't your kids be allowed to see their grandad?

[MillionsOfSpiders]

I think it's best to tell kids from as soon as they understand basic language, the truth. They do understand to a certain degree. My mum and dad split up when I was 10 but my little sister was 6 weeks old, never heard from my dad for 15 years. My mum remarried when my sister was 2 and she grew up calling my step dad her dad but we always always told her the truth, in very basic language, that she had another dad. It was never a problem later on for her when he turned up out of the blue. 

[alfierose]

28 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

Yeah, just tell her she has two Mums, dont hang onto it and let her find out or reveal it to her in her later years.  At the risk of sounding like I'm making a joke about this a great deal of serial killers were told they had other parentage than what they grew up thinking as teens, Ted Bundy, Paul Bernardo for two examples.  When you know something from baby age onwards then its just normal to you but when its revealed in your teens when you're all hormonal and mental anyway and it can fuck you up mentally.  A lot of people, famous people (just pointing em out cuz they're examples we know about) John Lennon, Eric Clapton had shit like this sprung on them in their teens and it fucked them up.

*Cough* Don't forget everyone's favourite - the one and only Axl!

[Słash]

14 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I think it's best to tell kids from as soon as they understand basic language, the truth. They do understand to a certain degree. My mum and dad split up when I was 10 but my little sister was 6 weeks old, never heard from my dad for 15 years. My mum remarried when my sister was 2 and she grew up calling my step dad her dad but we always always told her the truth, in very basic language, that she had another dad. It was never a problem later on for her when he turned up out of the blue. 

 I do agree and like Len said it can effect you in a mental way if its told you in your teens, Its a pretty horrible situation, when I see that kid, she is so cute and innocent and telling her all of this now just doesn't feels right. 

But yeah she should be told, I don't think she would even understand everything properly now, but as soon she grows older she will understand better about this situation.

[Len Cnut]

1 minute ago, alfierose said:

*Cough* Don't forget everyone's favourite - the one and only Axl!

I would've mentioned him but the day I heard that 'regression therapy' was the reason he knew he was raped as a 2 yr old i stopped taking his comments about his childhood seriously.

1 minute ago, Slash787 said:

 I do agree and like Len said it can effect you in a mental way if its told you in your teens, Its a pretty horrible situation, when I see that kid, she is so cute and innocent and telling her all of this now just doesn't feels right. 

But yeah she should be told, I don't think she would even understand everything properly now, but as soon she grows older she will understand better about this situation.

The bit that bothers em, the bit that fucks em up is not the fuckedupness of having two parents, it's the being lied to, it fucks with a persons sense of identity because at those sorts of ages (and afterwards really) your identity is sort of defined by stuff like that.  A kind of 'my whole life has been a lie' sort of thing.

[alfierose]

2 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

I would've mentioned him but the day I heard that 'regression therapy' was the reason he knew he was raped as a 2 yr old i stopped taking his comments about his childhood seriously.

I wasn't meaning that part, he did as I understand find out about his different parentage quite late - in his late teens I believe, pretty sure I read it was what prompted him to leave home and head to LA, or at least one of the things.

[Len Cnut]

Just now, alfierose said:

I wasn't meaning that part, he did as I understand find out about his different parentage cute late - in his late teens I believe, pretty sure I read it was what prompted him to leave home and head to LA, or at least one of the things.

I just meant he stopped being a reliable source on that particular subject after that.  I see your point though.

[alfierose]

4 minutes ago, Slash787 said:

 I do agree and like Len said it can effect you in a mental way if its told you in your teens, Its a pretty horrible situation, when I see that kid, she is so cute and innocent and telling her all of this now just doesn't feels right. 

But yeah she should be told, I don't think she would even understand everything properly now, but as soon she grows older she will understand better about this situation.

I have some experience of this, although slightly different scenario. I was adopted as a baby, I think I was around 7 or 8 when I was told, I can still remember the moment very clearly as even at that age it was quite a shock. I agree with Grace that in these situations there should be an ongoing narrative from birth and I understand that in the vast majority of adoption cases now this is exactly what they do, using photos and story books for very young children.

I don't think they should delay it any longer, there will never be a 'right' moment and a doubt she will thank them for hanging on to the information longer than necessary.

Bonus tip - don't use a film or TV series to illustrate the situation when the protagonist turns out to be a murderous psychopath! 

[Słash]

2 minutes ago, alfierose said:

I have some experience of this, although slightly different scenario. I was adopted as a baby, I think I was around 7 or 8 when I was told, I can still remember the moment very clearly as even at that age it was quite a shock. I agree with Grace that in these situations there should be an ongoing narrative from birth and I understand that in the vast majority of adoption cases now this is exactly what they do, using photos and story books for very young children.

I don't think they should delay it any longer, there will never be a 'right' moment and a doubt she will thank them for hanging on to the information longer than necessary.

Bonus tip - don't use a film or TV series to illustrate the situation when the protagonist turns out to be a murderous psychopath! 

When you were in your teens, did you look at your parents in a different way? did it bother you that you are adopted? 

Did you ever got to meet your real parents? did you have the urge to meet them?

Im not in my teens, but now if I found out that my mom is not my real mom and Im adopted, it would be just weird, I won't stop loving my mom, but like I would want to find that woman who gave birth to me and ask her questions, yeah it sounds like a movie story, but well this does bring a phycological effect. 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

9 minutes ago, Slash787 said:

 I do agree and like Len said it can effect you in a mental way if its told you in your teens, Its a pretty horrible situation, when I see that kid, she is so cute and innocent and telling her all of this now just doesn't feels right. 

But yeah she should be told, I don't think she would even understand everything properly now, but as soon she grows older she will understand better about this situation.

Whenever they decide to tell her, it's wise to remind them to never bad mouth the absent parent, even if they really want to. That's something the child will figure out on their own in their own time. I'm sure your friends wouldn't do that, but some people do.

[Słash]

1 minute ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Whenever they decide to tell her, it's wise to remind them to never bad mouth the absent parent, even if they really want to. That's something the child will figure out on their own in their own time. I'm sure your friends wouldn't do that, but some people do.

Yeah I don't think so my friends would do that, whenever they tell, they will tell in a nice understanding way.

But yeah some people do that, when my cousins mom had left him, my uncle said all nasty things about her that she is a bitch and all, when he was a kid he drew her as a witch. But now he seems to be normal with his mom, when we met my uncle 2 years ago again he said my cousin should never meet that whore and she is evil and god knows what, my cousin kept quiet, but I did get the feeling that he did feel bad from inside cause after all its his mother. 

[alfierose]

1 minute ago, Slash787 said:

When you were in your teens, did you look at your parents in a different way? did it bother you that you are adopted? 

Did you ever got to meet your real parents? did you have the urge to meet them?

Im not in my teens, but now if I found out that my mom is not my real mom and Im adopted, it would be just weird, I won't stop loving my mom, but like I would want to find that woman who gave birth to me and ask her questions, yeah it sounds like a movie story, but well this does bring a phycological effect. 

Difficult questions to answer, I never looked at my parents 'differently' as they were still just my parents. Sometimes I think about it fair bit but equally I have gone for months/years without giving it much thought. I don't think my parents handled it especially well but I do recognise they went with the professional advice at the time (1970's) which was more or less pretend it doesn't exist as thing. Problem is this kind of thinking continues into adulthood and it all gets a bit weird and awkward in an elephant in the room type thing.

I would say it probably was a big factor in me ending up having my own daughter at the same age as my birth mother was when she relinquished me - I've read since this is very common (I'm such a cliche ) but I don't think in that era anyone was made aware that adopted teenagers have a tendency to go a bit delinquent.

I haven't met my birth parents, I did actually make a half hearted attempted to locate my records a couple of months back but I couldn't give the authorities enough info to go on. I'm still not sure I really want to do it   but having turned 40 I'm aware there is some time pressure now.

My sister would give you a different account of her experiences, by the time she was adopted 5 years later I think our parents had learned a thing or too. She found her birth mother about 12 years ago and for some reason there isn't the same weirdness around her situation within our family. There was some additional weird circumstances around my adoption (which I won't go into) as opposed to hers, that coupled with the difficultly in tracking down my records makes me go hmmm...

It's all a bit Pandora's Box really.

[Słash]

3 minutes ago, alfierose said:

Difficult questions to answer, I never looked at my parents 'differently' as they were still just my parents. Sometimes I think about it fair bit but equally I have gone for months/years without giving it much thought. I don't think my parents handled it especially well but I do recognise they went with the professional advice at the time (1970's) which was more or less pretend it doesn't exist as thing. Problem is this kind of thinking continues into adulthood and it all gets a bit weird and awkward in an elephant in the room type thing.

I would say it probably was a big factor in me ending up having my own daughter at the same age as my birth mother was when she relinquished me - I've read since this is very common (I'm such a cliche ) but I don't think in that era anyone was made aware that adopted teenagers have a tendency to go a bit delinquent.

I haven't met my birth parents, I did actually make a half hearted attempted to locate my records a couple of months back but I couldn't give the authorities enough info to go on. I'm still not sure I really want to do it   but having turned 40 I'm aware there is some time pressure now.

My sister would give you a different account of her experiences, by the time she was adopted 5 years later I think our parents had learned a thing or too. She found her birth mother about 12 years ago and for some reason there isn't the same weirdness around her situation within our family. There was some additional weird circumstances around my adoption (which I won't go into) as opposed to hers, that coupled with the difficultly in tracking down my records makes me go hmmm...

It's all a bit Pandora's Box really.

Thanks for the detailed reply and sharing these things with us

I do understand where you are coming from, its a pretty messed up situation, but I can say even this is an experience in life, Its sad what people have to go through but if some one learns from it then nothing can be better than that.