Unofficial GNR Social Media Update / Discussion

[Order of Nine]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Only Guns N' Roses fans talk about ''not being owned anything''. That is how thoroughly depressing it is supporting them. Most fan-band relations possess reciprocity. 

Lmao

What didn't you get that other fan bases have gotten???

This place is hilarious!

Let's do a Kickstarter and try to raise some funds for all the heartache the fans have been subjected to.

 

[Order of Nine]

40 minutes ago, Kwick1 said:

Completely agree with you on all your comments about this topic. Great posts!

Yes, a pragmatic and realistic approach, that makes sense. 

On the other hand, you have people that are still "owed" things, entitled, and have a warped sense of reality. 

[Padme]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

Only Guns N' Roses fans are pissy about their band not doing as they think it should. No wait, any sufficiently fanny fan act the same way when they feel mistreated by whoever they idolize. "Boohoo, I defend them when my friends say they are shit, and now they won't reunite with Steven Adler! Boohoo, I went to 14 of their shows last year and now they won't release a new record! They treat me so badly!" 

 I'm not going to demand nor ask Axl to change anything nor to make more albums. Now if you ask me if I would like a new album and if I would like to see the AFD line up on stage. Then my answer is yes. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[RussTCB]

22 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

Lmao

What didn't you get that other fan bases have gotten???

This place is hilarious!

Let's do a Kickstarter and try to raise some funds for all the heartache the fans have been subjected to.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

Yes, a pragmatic and realistic approach, that makes sense. 

On the other hand, you have people that are still "owed" things, entitled, and have a warped sense of reality. 

It's funny to me how bitter and angry you come off. You continually attack the members here and the site in general but it's other people who have a warped sense of reality?

The only thing most or all members here want is what's best for Axl & Guns N' Roses. That includes wanting Axl to make good on any number of claims he's made in the past regarding new music. The only reason myself and many members here hold out any hope for new material from Axl & GN'R is because he said so much was still to come. No one feels they're owed anything except what Axl himself said and has never made good on outside of 1 album.

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

I already explained to the other guy what I meant by being "owed" (maybe you should re-read it).

What boggles my mind is this insistance with associating everything, even the emotional, to some sort of commerce and regulations. Makes me wonder how far Crapitalims has gone that some people can only think in terms of money and lawsuits.

No, dude, no. Support (aside from the $$$$ part) means being there when they need you. Do you need a translation for this case? Ok, going to shows of nuGN'R in the early 2000's. Waiting (not literally though) more than a decade for an album. Perhaps, going to their hotels and try to say hi to them or tell them how much you like them for their work; making long lines under the sun to get a good spot in the stadium, etc. etc. etc.

"But they are all things you decide to do"... oh really? I've got news for you: you decide to do things all the time, everyday of your life. You decide what to eat, what to wear, what to watch on tv, what music to listen to, who you want to be with, etc. Yeah, well... sometimes you can't decide certain things, but let's say that in general, if you belong to the "lucky" portion of the humans of this planet, you can exercise your free will in whatever way you please. So the question is.... and? How does this invalidates reciprocation in a relationship? Do you want me to go metaphysical into what a "relationship" is about?

No. Ok.

"The band has never entered an agreement with fans...".... Yeah, no kidding. Do you enter agreements with every person that you have a relationship with?

I wouldn't want to offend you but this kind of reasoning speaks more about how you operate in your own life than how the world really functions. So I won't go there to personal stuff but it does sound strange to me that you talk about legal agreements when we are talking about feelings and emotions.

 

The band hasn't entered a "relationship" with us. They have just sold us stuff. It's the fans who believe they have magically been transported into a relationship with the band simply because THEY have decided to devote time and love on their band. It doesn't work that way. Again, the DECENT thing of a band who is being adulterated is to reciprocate that, at least seemingly, but they are not in any way, not even morally, obligated to behave in any way simply because some fans feel they are in a relationship with'em. 

[SoulMonster]

13 minutes ago, Padme said:

 I'm not going to demand nor ask Axl to change anything nor to make more albums. Now if you ask me if I would like a new album and if I would like to see the AFD line up on stage. Then my answer is yes. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I don't think we are talking abut fans wanting anything. We all want stuff. I want lots from Guns N' Roses.

We are talking about fans thinking they are owed anything or, on a smaller scale, that the band should treat them in a special way simply because they are huge fans of the band and have devoted time and love on the band. That there is some obligated reciprocity to a situation where some people have decided to fawn over a band. I really like some people, doesn't mean they have to accommodate me in any way. Doesn't work that way. Not even with bands. It's a symptom of "me, me, me!" I, IIIIIII!!!, like someone who have devoted so much time on them so THEY HAVE TO give me back. Uhm, no. Me, me, meeeee! Sorry, you don't get automatically paid for spending your time and love on anything. 

Again, the DECENT thing for a band is to throw a fan base a bone now and then, and not take they for granted, or even appear hostile to it. Just like the decent thing (and sensible) for a barrista is to grant me a smile as a long-time customer. But they are not obligated to that in any way no matter how much I have praised that coffee shop to my friends, how many times I have bough coffee there, or how much I might fancy that cute barrista. I am an adult, so I know my own feelings of devotion doesn't dictate anyone else's behavior. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by SoulMonster

[Order of Nine]

12 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

 

It's funny to me how bitter and angry you come off. You continually attack the members here and the site in general but it's other people who have a warped sense of reality?

The only thing most or all members here want is what's best for Axl & Guns N' Roses. That includes wanting Axl to make good on any number of claims he's made in the past regarding new music. The only reason myself and many members here hold out any hope for new material from Axl & GN'R is because he said so much was still to come. No one feels they're owed anything except what Axl himself said and has never made good on outside of 1 album.

I'm not bitter I'm just questioning why some others are jaded because of what they feel they are owed. I'm into Guns for what they are and turned out to be not for what I expect them to be. 

Would I love new music? He'll yeah! But seeing all the new circumstances that have come about in the past few years that will obviously hinder the process for that.

Other then anxiously awaiting more new material I'm pretty content. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Order of Nine

[Derick]

14 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

The only thing most or all members here want is what's best for Axl & Guns N' Roses.

Sorry but the only thing most or all members here want is what’s best for their self. We want what pleases us...Let’s get real.

[SoulMonster]

19 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

 No one feels they're owed anything except what Axl himself said and has never made good on outside of 1 album.

Just a few posts back:

"It wouldn't be cool if it was forced (and more exactly, if it looked forced) but the fans are owed a lot.

They are who they are thanks to the fans. Without an audience you wouldn't have an "undeniably popular and lucrative" tour."

Edited April 4, 2018 by SoulMonster

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, Derick said:

Well, IMO we´re in the exceptions area. It's kinda selfish and unhealthy the way we, hard-core ones, deal with this matter. I mean,try to imagine parents forcing their son to relate (even against his will) to someone they know very well that, at least at that moment, he doesn´t want to, doesn´t feel at ease...This is not about wearing a white T-shirt or a black one, this is not about baking turkey or ribs on Christmas Eve, human relationship goes way beyond that and it's personal, no one should force anyone to relate to anyone, parents shouldn´t  require something like this, even more so if they know that their child is happy and successful.

No, we are not in any exception because it would be stupid to claim that all hard-core fans are being selfish and unhealthy about their relationship with the band. The only unhealthy ones are those stalker people who go assaulting the band members, following them around and trying to be part of their lives, forcing themselves into private parties or the band member's houses.

The rest of us just come here to talk and discuss topics and there's nothing unhealthy about that but in general, I think I can safely say that most people here lead a normal life, do not stalk, do not harass and go through most of their day doing and thinking things that are not related to the band.

Wishing things belongs to the imaginary of every person. It is normal and it is healthy to imagine, fantasize and have thoughts. What is not healthy is to act upon certain thoughts, like what I said before, jumping from imagination to real life and invade the privacy of the artist or physically attack them, insult them, etc.

2 hours ago, Derick said:

In my opinion this support is extremely relative, I'm sure we don´t become fans for charity. We received something in exchange for it, otherwise no one would be around here. I even think it´s dishonest to use the support thing to justify our attitude. We support them as long as they give us what we want, otherwise, there is no support(I include myself in it). Again, just take a look around here...

You become a fan of something because you like it and you enjoy it, otherwise you wouldn't invest on it. That's beyond the obvious but you are still mixing up things and talking about being "dishonest"? what???? or "our attitude"?? What attitude are you talking about?

I am pretty aware not everybody is the same type of fan. For example, I am not like the "superfans" Margott, Tako and the rest. I can't do what they do. I don't have the resources to go that route and if I had them, I'm not sure I'd choose to be that way. But within my possibilities, I have done some things that I wouldn't do for other band: I have travelled to a different country to see them, to a different city to see them, I have spent money in merchandise, fan club, tickets, albums, etc. And when I couldnt do it, I was there.... just giving them my attention. Supporting something comes in different ways and when you are loyal to something, in general, you try to be there all the time.

Did the band ask me to do all of that? Not exactly in terms of "agreements" but they DO market their shows and are all the time PROMOTING them. How do you go to a GN'R show? You just show up any day at a random stadium and oh surprise, the band was playing?

No, sir. The band DOES "invite" all fans with anticipation to their shows. Whether it was a FLYER in 1985 or their website in 2016, it is THE BAND who make a call for people to go see their show or buy their album or buy their t-shirts.

They don't give us what we want, they give us what THEY want. They give us their art, their performances and the merchandise they produce....

Why does a band produce merchandise?

Didn't you guys say they only want to deliver their ART?

LOL yeah right. Ok. They want us to be their fans and putting t-shirts with their name in our bodies it is their way of involving us with them.

Seriously, I could write a whole doctoral thesis on how cultural industries impact in people's lives but I'm already becoming utterly boring.

 

[Padme]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think we are talking abut fans wanting anything. We all want stuff. I want lots from Guns N' Roses.

We are talking about fans thinking they are owed anything or, on a smaller scale, that the band should treat them in a special way simply because they are huge fans of the band and have devoted time and love on the band. That there is some obligated reciprocity to a situation where some people have decided to fawn over a band. I really like some people, doesn't mean they have to accommodate me in any way. Doesn't work that way. Not even with bands. It's a symptom of "me, me, me!" I, IIIIIII!!!, like someone who have devoted so much time on them so THEY HAVE TO give me back. Uhm, no. Me, me, meeeee! Sorry, you don't get automatically paid for spending your time and love on anything. 

Again, the DECENT thing for a band is to throw a fan base a bone now and then, and not take they for granted, or even appear hostile to it. Just like the decent thing (and sensible) for a barrista is to grant me a smile as a long-time customer. But they are not obligated to that in any way no matter how much I have praised that coffee shop to my friends, how many times I have bough coffee there, or how much I might fancy that cute barrista. I am an adult, so I know my own feelings of devotion doesn't dictate anyone else's behavior. 

 But there are people here saying that I should forget all about an album. And they want me to be to happy with Richard, Frank, The Seeker and This I Love. Sorry but I think I have the right to disagree with the way the band is doing things

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Padme said:

 But there are people here saying that I should forget all about an album. And they want me to be to happy with Richard, Frank, The Seeker and This I Love. Sorry but I think I have the right to disagree with the way the band is doing things

Of course you have the right to disagree and be unhappy. That's not what I am talking about.

[DieselDaisy]

Soul, weren't you - a nugnr fan - acting a bit of a fanny when the reunion-triumvirate thingy happened? I'm sure I remember you saying, ''I have no interest in this reunion'' or something similar?

The fact of the matter is, a situation never ever occurs in which a fan of other bands, to defend their band, feels the need to resort to saying: ''remember chaps, they do not owe us anything''. Usually there is always some degree of reciprocity, whether it is just the release of archival stuff and interviews or something more creative like a new album. 

''Axl does not owe you anything'' is basically just an excuse for being rogered up the jacksy for twenty-five plus years.

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Order of Nine said:

Lmao

What didn't you get that other fan bases have gotten???

This place is hilarious!

Let's do a Kickstarter and try to raise some funds for all the heartache the fans have been subjected to.

 

Do you really want me to follow that up in light of the fact I'm a Neil Young fan? 

[killuridols]

43 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The band hasn't entered a "relationship" with us. They have just sold us stuff. It's the fans who believe they have magically been transported into a relationship with the band simply because THEY have decided to devote time and love on their band. It doesn't work that way. Again, the DECENT thing of a band who is being adulterated is to reciprocate that, at least seemingly, but they are not in any way, not even morally, obligated to behave in any way simply because some fans feel they are in a relationship with'em. 

I would suggest that you read something about "customer relationship", if you want to treat fans as customers, then maybe you should illustrate yourself about topics such as marketing, sales, customers, clients, etc. The biggest companies in the world KNOW this relationship DOES exist and it is the most valuable asset they have. Ask APPLE, ask GOOGLE, ask Coca-Cola, ask anyone.

36 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think we are talking abut fans wanting anything. We all want stuff. I want lots from Guns N' Roses.

We are talking about fans thinking they are owed anything or, on a smaller scale, that the band should treat them in a special way simply because they are huge fans of the band and have devoted time and love on the band. That there is some obligated reciprocity to a situation where some people have decided to fawn over a band. I really like some people, doesn't mean they have to accommodate me in any way. Doesn't work that way. Not even with bands. It's a symptom of "me, me, me!" I, IIIIIII!!!, like someone who have devoted so much time on them so THEY HAVE TO give me back. Uhm, no. Me, me, meeeee! Sorry, you don't get automatically paid for spending your time and love on anything. 

Again, the DECENT thing for a band is to throw a fan base a bone now and then, and not take they for granted, or even appear hostile to it. Just like the decent thing (and sensible) for a barrista is to grant me a smile as a long-time customer. But they are not obligated to that in any way no matter how much I have praised that coffee shop to my friends, how many times I have bough coffee there, or how much I might fancy that cute barrista. I am an adult, so I know my own feelings of devotion doesn't dictate anyone else's behavior. 

This whole post resumes, in my view, the way YOU seem to relate to the band but NOT the way the rest of us get involved with them.

You use words like DECENT. That's strange. And also talk about "throwing the fan base a bone". Are you reading yourself?

It's like you put yourself (or the fans) below the feet of THE BAND, in a place of slavery:

Accept what the BIG GOD OF HEAVEN give you.
Do not protest. Do not criticize. Do not talk.
Just listen and remain silent.
Wait for the BONE, like a dog, like a servant, like a slave.

What else is left to add to this sermon? PRAY FOR THEM and DO NOT LOOK INTO THEIR EYES?

 

[Order of Nine]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Do you really want me to follow that up in light of the fact I'm a Neil Young fan? 

I'm a distant casual fan of his. What did he do? I'm guessing alot more then Guns? Is it realistic to think that every band operates the same way? 

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Soul, weren't you - a nugnr fan - acting a bit of a fanny when the reunion-triumvirate thingy happened? I'm sure I remember you saying, ''I have no interest in this reunion'' or something similar?

Of course. But I have never transformed my dislike about how the band operates into a "they owe me something else" argument. They can do whatever they want, and I will appreciate it or (more like since we are talking about Guns) dislike it, but I will never confuse my fandom with them owing me shit. I would appreciate it, though. I would find it cool, reasonable, decent and appropriate, if they were to acknowledge my fandom, if they were to, say, grant be some backstage passes for the Oslo gig this June (hey @Fernando or @Dexter, are you reading this?) or release the rest of the CD material. That's what I would have done. But they are not me and I realize that simply because I really like them doesn't dictate their actions.

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

I would suggest that you read something about "customer relationship", if you want to treat fans as customers, then maybe you should illustrate yourself about topics such as marketing, sales, customers, clients, etc. The biggest companies in the world KNOW this relationship DOES exist and it is the most valuable asset they have. Ask APPLE, ask GOOGLE, ask Coca-Cola, ask anyone.

Which is exactly why it would make SENSE for GN'R to treat their hardcore fans better, but THEY DON'T OWE us. Just like Apple doesn't owe me anything if I have been a loyal iPhone user since the 90s (I haven't, I despise their products). you do understand this difference, right? 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Order of Nine said:

I'm a distant casual fan of his. What did he do? I'm guessing alot more then Guns? Is it realistic to think that every band operates the same way? 

I get one album per year, and setlists are mad which is the reason I have way too many bootlegs. 

[Order of Nine]

I guess my main point is we are all aware of how Guns operates, so after all these decades everyone should come to terms with it. Obviously that won't mean you may like how they choose to operate, but why would anyone want something contrived at this point? It is what it is, if you got something that you felt was "owed" to you at this point it would be completely fake and ungenuine at this point. 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Of course. But I have never transformed my dislike about how the band operates into a "they owe me something else" argument. They can do whatever they want, and I will appreciate it or (more like since we are talking about Guns) dislike it, but I will never confuse my fandom with them owing me shit. I would appreciate it, though. I would find it cool, reasonable, decent and appropriate, if they were to acknowledge my fandom, if they were to, say, grant be some backstage passes for the Oslo gig this June (hey @Fernando or @Dexter, are you reading this?) or release the rest of the CD material. That's what I would have done. But they are not me and I realize that simply because I really like them doesn't dictate their actions.

Name a fanbase of another band where this argument about owing stuff (or not) even arises?

I love a lot of different artists and I've never seen a situation where this topic needs to be raised. 

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

This whole post resumes, in my view, the way YOU seem to relate to the band but NOT the way the rest of us get involved with them.

Of course it describes how I relate to the band :D. And I am explaining why it is the correct way to relate to the band and why it is wrong for fans, like you, to feel the band owes you anything.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Name a fanbase of another band where this argument about owing stuff (or not) even arises?

I love a lot of different artists and I've never seen a situation where this topic needs to be raised. 

I have no idea how other fanbases operate. I am 42 years old. I shouldn't even bother to be on a GN'R fan forum.

But even if it IS the case that only GN'R fans feel entitled, I think that can easily be explained by how abysmally GN'R have operated, how polarized the fanbase is, and how Axl said we wer going to get more music. 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

I have no idea how other fanbases operate. I am 42 years old. I shouldn't even bother to be on a GN'R fan forum.

But even if it IS the case that only GN'R fans feel entitled, I think that can easily be explained by how abysmally GN'R have operated, how polarized the fanbase is, and how Axl said we wer going to get more music. 

Or should that be, only GN'R fans feel the need to remind other GN'R fans that ''the band does not owe them anything'' in order to justify twenty-five years of a shit sandwich? 

[killuridols]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Of course it describes how I relate to the band :D. And I am explaining why it is the correct way to relate to the band and why it is wrong for fans, like you, to feel the band owes you anything.

I grasped between lines the way you relate to them and I don't like it and I'm not sure it is the "correct" way to relate to them as it looks to me, a bit unhealthy. But I will not label it as right or wrong, because this kind of things are not correct or incorrect. If you that's what you choose for you and it makes you happy, then so be it.

I wouldn't feel happy thinking they are some kind of gods who once in a while should act in a "decent" way () and "throw me a bone". I don't consider myself a dog or someone of a minor category.

Also, when I said "owe" the fans I wasn't being literal about it. I have tried to explain it more than once, but some people here insist on interpreting it as I think the band legally owes me albums, shows, etc.

I guess it must be the mental structure of some people what prevents them from understanding what I really mean.

[Order of Nine]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I get one album per year, and setlists are mad which is the reason I have way too many bootlegs. 

Yeah there's alot of musicians that release material on a regular basis. Guns has never been that way, they are on a limited amount of time now to do that and they will capitalize on another release and that will probably be it. The Axl/DC gig is a more urgent matter considering the fact Axl has a once in a lifetime opportunity to record a CD with one of his hero's who has even less time to do so.

But Niel Young or any other artist does not owe anyone any specific amount of material.