True Story of Axl Rose/Kurt Cobain MTV Bust Up By Those Who Were There

[RichardNixon]

Obviously, the Stones sold more than  2.5 million albums. I meant to say 250 million and this board won't let me edit.

[Len Cnut]

On 22/12/2016 at 2:38 PM, RichardNixon said:

The Rolling Stones have over 2.5 million albums.

Guns N' Roses have sold over 100 million albums.

The Rolling Stones have released  30 studio albums, 18 live albums and countless greatest  hits. In addition, their  catalog  has been re-released numerous  times.

Guns N' Roses released six albums, one live album and one GH.

Because The Stones have released so much more material and have a 25 year head start, it's kind of hard to compare the two.

A few points: 

The Rolling  Stones  have over 20 million facebook likes.

Guns N' Roses have over 30.5 million facebook likes.

GN'R, like AC/DC and Sabbath are hip with youth culture. You always see kids with a GN'R shirt and are familiar  with songs like WTTJ, SCOM and NR. If you asked any random kid to name three Stones songs, how many could?

As a personal  preference, I would absolutely take GN'R  over the Stones. I like RS, but they honestly never did a whole lot for me. 

 

None of this has a bearing on my statement.

[tsinindy]

2 hours ago, tremolo said:

Where did that good fighter rep come from?

I ask seriously... the only Axl "fight" that comes to mind is what turned into the St Louis riot. Maybe his rep was based on his anger and volatility more than his actual fighting skills?

Street Fighting rep from when He moved to LA when he was 20 and prior in Lafayette.    All the stories you hear from when he became more famous and those that are "common knowledge" have nothing to do with what I am talking about.  

[tsinindy]

13 minutes ago, tremolo said:

Even then... I have no memories of ever reading any stories that could lead me to think he was a good fighter. I'm sure he got into trouble and had his share of bar and street fights. Now, was he good at it? Did he had a rep of being a good fighter? Not sure. A good shit disturber? For sure!

Then you should read some more.

[tsinindy]

11 minutes ago, tremolo said:

Well, that's what I asked in the first place: some reading material and stories of Axl being a good fighter. I'm not saying this to be a smart ass or prove you wrong. It would be cool if you could back up your words with some actual facts. If you have any sources, post them, I'd be happy to give them a read to get out of my sad state of ignorance and also for the good laughs... everyone loves those stories, I just haven't really read any of them. Information is meant to be shared, not kept in a safe just to be able to say "I know more than you do".

I'm really not trying to be a dick, I don't have time to scour the Internet for you....additionally as I said most of this was word of mouth knowledge at the time, not something that someone wrote in a "blog" lol.

Just stories based on word of mouth, urban legend, possibly true or not true, who really knows. 

Ive seen some evidence of this in online stories. But I really don't recall where.   

Canter could probably comment on this to some degree I imagine.   

[Len Cnut]

I don't think you really need to be a brain surgeon to deduce that Axl is not what one would term a good fighter, nor is it his job to be nor is there any particular currency in Axl being a good fighter nor do i think, though the following is slightly presumptuous, that he would particularly care to be.  There is absolutely no street fighting rep' attached to Axl, thats just preposterous.  Yes he jumped into a crowd and hit someone but that same person was under his employment.  Other than that he's hit photographers...anyone that you'd expect to throw a punch back?  No, i think not.  In fact every instance of Axl being confronted over his shit has resulted in nothing on his part.

As previously mentioned, Bob Guccione Jnr and Vince Neil both offered him out after his mouthing off, I'm sure at least Neil he's been in the same places as since...and what happened?  Nothing.  And quite apart from that the infraction that Neil committed, i.e. smacking Izzy, was done while Axl was there, Axl even saw him backstage following the incident and by all accounts did nothing but make a lot of noise...and then leave and offer him out later on MTV.  If he truly was gonna do something and was this crazy irrational hot tempered guy who can't control his violent impulses he would've done something.  Also, crazy violent hot tempered guys don't last very long on the streets and Axl spent a good few years in LA, he wouldn't've made it to where he did if he were THAT fuckin' crazy.  It's one thing mouthing off and having a temper, I have a temper...but stick me in front of someone whoose bigger than me and likely to  peel me off a right hander and my temper'll cool down real fuckin' quick, no ones THAT hot tempered, we're built for self preservation.

The mans a singer, his job is to sing, the arts are not typically the preserve of fighting men.  The only person who has a rep' in rock n roll, out of the big bands, for that sort of thing is Roger Daltrey that I can think of.  Lennon to a point though like Axl he only mouthed off and gave lip when he knew nothing would happen, Tom Jones threatened him once after a cutting jibe (someone who can fight) and nothing happened, he spilt a pint of beer over the head of Chris Montez who happened to be ex Golden Glove champion and it was all the rest of The Beatles and their staff could do to stop Montez from stoving his head in.  And I'm as big a Lennon fan as you're likely to find, in case anyone thinks my assessment of Axl has something to do with thinking he's a bit of a wanker.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Len Cnut

[tsinindy]

15 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I don't think you really need to be a brain surgeon to deduce that Axl is not what one would term a good fighter, nor is it his job to be nor is there any particular currency in Axl being a good fighter nor do i think, though the following is slightly presumptuous, that he would particularly care to be.  There is absolutely no street fighting rep' attached to Axl, thats just preposterous.  Yes he jumped into a crowd and hit someone but that same person was under his employment.  Other than that he's hit photographers...anyone that you'd expect to throw a punch back?  No, i think not.  In fact every instance of Axl being confronted over his shit has resulted in nothing on his part.

As previously mentioned, Bob Guccione Jnr and Vince Neil both offered him out after his mouthing off, I'm sure at least Neil he's been in the same places as since...and what happened?  Nothing.  And quite apart from that the infraction that Neil committed, i.e. smacking Izzy, was done while Axl was there, Axl even saw him backstage following the incident and by all accounts did nothing but make a lot of noise...and then leave and offer him out later on MTV.

The mans a singer, his job is to sing, the arts are not typically the preserve of fighting men.  The only person who has a rep' in rock n roll, out of the big bands, for that sort of thing is Roger Daltrey that I can think of.  Lennon to a point though like Axl he only mouthed off and gave lip when he knew nothing would happen, Tom Jones threatened him once after a cutting jibe (someone who can fight) and nothing happened, he spilt a pint of beer over the head of Chris Montez who happened to be ex Golden Glove champion and it was all the rest of The Beatles and their staff could do to stop Montez from stoving his head in.  And I'm as big a Lennon fan as you're likely to find, in case anyone thinks my assessment of Axl has something to do with thinking he's a bit of a wanker.

Sorry but you're wrong.  Why do you always opine on things without any factual basis to back it up?  No one gives a fuck about Vince Neil or Bob Guccione.  That shit all happened later and the things I am talking about are from pre-fame days in Lafayette and LA.  You know we actually existed without blogs and forums and other non sense then.

But here's one example for you:

 

Izzy on Axl:

[Axl] was like a serious lunatic when I met him. He was just really fucking bent on fighting and destroying things. Somebody'd look at him wrong, and he'd just, like, start a fight [Rolling Stone, November 1988]

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by tsinindy

[Len Cnut]

Quote

Sorry but you're wrong.  Why do you always opine on things without any factual basis to back it up?

Well because if it was all factual then it would cease to be opinion by definition, wouldn't it?  But for the sake of argument, so the Izzy Vince Neil incident  has no basis?  The Bob Guccione one has no basis?  Wheres your factual basis, a comment by his oldest friend and bandmate who had an obvious interest in making Axl to be a hard case?  And also, just use your fuckin' brain man.  I mean do you live in the world, do you get out much, you look like a grown fuckin' man presuming that you're the bald guy in that avatar, do you not have the general wit about you to tell an apple from an orange, look at him, look at his behaviour historically, look at the way he throws a punch in St Louis, THAT guy can fight?  Give me a fuckin' break.  Katt Williams goes around starting fights cuz people look at him wrong all the time, is he a hard case too?   How about the Daltrey stuff, hows that not factual, look it up.  Roger Daltrey was a street fighting barrow boy from Shepherds Bush.  The Lennon and Montez stuff, again, widely documented.

And quite apart from that, why this stock in whether or not he's a hard case anyway?  Again, how old are you?  All that quote says is that he got into fights, anyone can get into fights all the time, it don't make you hard, just go for the ones you know you can handle.  You're living in a dreamworld if you think the people in bands are some kinda hardnuts but hey if thats what it takes to get your dick hard, go for it man.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Len Cnut

[tsinindy]

7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Well because if it was all factual then it would cease to be opinion by definition, wouldn't it?  But for the sake of argument, so the Izzy Vince Neil incident  has no basis?  The Bob Guccione one has no basis?  Wheres your factual basis, a comment by his oldest friend and bandmate who had an obvious interest in making Axl to be a hard case?  And also, just use your fuckin' brain man.  I mean do you live in the world, do you get out much, you look like a grown fuckin' man presuming that you're the bald guy in that avatar, do you not have the general wit about you to tell an apple from an orange, look at him, look at his behaviour historically, look at the way he throws a punch in St Louis, THAT guy can fight?  Give me a fuckin' break.  Katt Williams goes around starting fights cuz people look at him wrong all the time, is he a hard case too?   How about the Daltrey stuff, hows that not factual, look it up.  Roger Daltrey was a street fighting barrow boy from Shepherds Bush.  The Lennon and Montez stuff, again, widely documented.

And quite apart from that, why this stock in whether or not he's a hard case anyway?  Again, how old are you?  All that quote says is that he got into fights, anyone can get into fights all the time, it don't make you hard, just go for the ones you know you can handle.  You're living in a dreamworld if you think the people in bands are some kinda hardnuts but hey if thats what it takes to get your dick hard, go for it man.

I've already addressed those incidents specifically and the rest of what you said generally. If you don't recall what I said go back and look.

I cited a quote from Izzy from the time as evidence bc I don't have the time or care to google all day long for obscure quotes or facts on Axl pre-1986.  I never disagreed with you on Daltrey, why are you bringing it up?  Is all your knowledge from Google or what?  lol

I'm not the one making a big deal out of this.  Again please review the thread, I made one statement and you and couple of others keep questioning it and me.  You're the one making a big deal of it, not me.

Nice effort at trying to be personably insulting, I'll just ignore that sort of non sense, as it speaks for itself.  Have a good day, you're dumbass is now on ignore.

[Len Cnut]

 

Quote

 

I've already addressed those incidents specifically and the rest of what you said generally. If you don't recall what I said go back and look.

 

i didn't say anything about whether or not you cited them though did i?

Quote

I never disagreed with you on Daltrey, why are you bringing it up?  Is all your knowledge from Google or what?  lol

I'm bringing you up because you said why do i opine on things without any factual basis, without actually specifying which thing you felt was un-factual.  And you've actually done the same thing again with the google remark though I'm going to assume that you mean that in regards to the Daltrey remark, its a well known and storied fact, it is mentioned in numerous books about The Who, in the documentary Amazing Journey and in numerous interviews by Pete Townshend and Daltrey, though not Moon or Entwhistle...and also because i come from just up the road from where The Who started and where a great deal of their early gigs took place ergo I've know people who met The Who, hung out with them, went to their early gigs back when they were called The High Numbers...I suppose this is all from google too?  There's even a place in town where they used to get their equipment in on the cheap.

Quote

I'm not the one making a big deal out of this.  Again please review the thread, I made one statement and you and couple of others keep questioning it and me.  You're the one making a big deal of it, not me.

Well excuse the world for being intrigued   Perhaps in future you shouldn't chat shit about stuff you then struggle to expound on.  And the reason you struggle to expound on it is because you dreamt it.

Quote

Nice effort at trying to be personably insulting, I'll just ignore that sort of non sense, as it speaks for itself.  Have a good day, you're dumbass is now on ignore.

Weren't too insulted to get your word in first though eh?   Buh bye!

[Blackstar]

On 23/12/2016 at 6:22 PM, tremolo said:

Where did that good fighter rep come from?

I ask seriously... the only Axl "fight" that comes to mind is what turned into the St Louis riot. Maybe his rep was based on his anger and volatility more than his actual fighting skills?

There are some stories, like this one by Tracii Guns:

Quote

"When Izzy joined London, we started doing a lot of shows together, as we were all supposedly friends. I am still friends with Nadir, which is weird. But Axl had seen Nadir detune my guitars before we went on, or so he claimed. But, sure enough, when I went to put my guitar on that night it was out of tune. I put the next guitar on – it was out of tune as well. So when we went on stage, Axl ripped up a London poster. There is a photo of this in Marc Canter’s book. That was the beginning of all hell breaking loose between those two. Axl and Izzy were kind of humble guys, but growing up they had their share of street fights. So just because they were on the quiet side, didn’t mean that they wouldn’t whip somebody’s butt. On the flip side, Nadir was a really tough guy. He had been in and out of jail, and was a pretty tough kid. A lot of the time I would pick up Axl from work at Tower Video, and a few times Nadir was waiting for Axl outside. They would have these quick little battles, then Nadir would run off. One day, Nadir was waiting outside with a gun! Axl is a tough motherfucker, man. He picked up a broken street sign and just whacked Nadir with it! As far as I know, that was the last time they tangled."

And this one from a musician's blog who says he knew Axl and Izzy back in Indiana:

Quote

I never saw Lank in a fight, or any of the other kids, but I did see Axl brawling with a kid once. Me and Ben and Rich were at the Tippecanoe Mall, playing video games at Aladdin’s Castle, skateboarding down the halls and scaring old people. We came around the corner to find crowd of people gathered outside of Musicland, near the JC Penney end of the mall. “It’s Bill Bailey,” Ben exclaimed. I looked down the hall to see Axl grappling with this black kid, right in the  middle of the Mall, their shoes squeaking on the floor, their elbows and knees thunking down on the linoleum. Huffy grunts accompanying the occasional swear word-but no racial epithets. Despite that infamous song he wrote later, I never heard or saw Axl say or do anything racist. The kid that he was fighting was simply the leader of another Lafayette gang, from what I remember. They rolled back and forth, as one, a writhing storm of fists, until they flipped over into the sporting goods store. Axl grabbed a baseball bat and started whacking the kid with it, getting a couple off good shots. (...)

There's also the incident in Atlanta in 1987 when Axl jumped into the crowd and was charged with attacking four police officers. Axl had denied of touching the cops and said he just hit a security guard, and that was most likely the truth, because otherwise they wouldn't had let him go with a fine; what probably happened was that the security guard was a policeman who was doing it as a second job and wanted to get to Axl.

And Slash said that Axl could be uncontrollable if he was in the mood for fighting.

----------

To put the whole thing in its true dimensions, Axl was a little guy and not particularly strong, but he had some street experience to handle a fight and defend himself if he had to. He also could go wild when he flipped out, but other than that he wasn't someone who was looking to "get in the ring" with anyone anytime and asking for it. Maybe if he had Vince Neil in front of him the time the incident with Izzy occurred* he would have gone off on him, but he didn't really want to fight him after that, it was just words.

*Axl and Vince Neil didn't meet backstage after the incident. According to his and others' accounts Vince Neil and the rest of Motley Crue split right after it happened.

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Blackstar
added stuff

[BlueJean Baby]

Not sure if he still is, but he was into kickboxing a while back. So I would think he could kick ass if his redheaded temper kicked into action. 

[J Dog]

If you live the life long enough you're gonna take an ass kicking here and there I don't care who you are. I've toted a couple of ass kickings myself, it is what it is. 

And for the record, I've seen big guys get their asses kicked before and seen smaller guys go to that ass. There's usually a little more to a fight than inches in height.

Now my boy Pac, he's one that could throw down with the best of them.

[Len Cnut]

Just now, J Dog said:

If you live the life long enough you're gonna take an ass kicking here and there I don't care who you are. I've toted a couple of ass kickings myself, it is what it is. 

And for the record, I've seen big guys get their asses kicked before and seen smaller guys go to that ass. There's usually a little more to a fight than inches in height.

Now my boy Pac, he's one that could throw down with the best of them.

That, again, is something i don't necessarily agree with, i don't think Pac was a tough guy, as big of a fan though I am.  He could fight, he could definitely fight but i think there were a lot more tough guys around him than he was.  People like Big Syke, Tray Deee, now those are unpleasant looking bastards, them I'd call tough.  But Tupac, he could clearly handle himself and when he threw a punch he threw it from the fuckin' rafters, you can tell just the way he acts a punch in a movie that he really delivered em, plus some of the Vegas footage etc.  People like Rae and Ghost I'd wager were tougher guys than Pac.

But you're right about people who fight a lot get better at it, this one guy i know, little skinny guy, short, with long hair, he looked like a mop with the handle but he lived in like a council estate (projects to an American) and every day he would get into fights so he got to a point where he could handle himself pretty well.  But a tough guy, to me at least, is something else.  

[J Dog]

9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

That, again, is something i don't necessarily agree with, i don't think Pac was a tough guy, as big of a fan though I am.  He could fight, he could definitely fight but i think there were a lot more tough guys around him than he was.  People like Big Syke, Tray Deee, now those are unpleasant looking bastards, them I'd call tough.  But Tupac, he could clearly handle himself and when he threw a punch he threw it from the fuckin' rafters, you can tell just the way he acts a punch in a movie that he really delivered em, plus some of the Vegas footage etc.  People like Rae and Ghost I'd wager were tougher guys than Pac.

But you're right about people who fight a lot get better at it, this one guy i know, little skinny guy, short, with long hair, he looked like a mop with the handle but he lived in like a council estate (projects to an American) and every day he would get into fights so he got to a point where he could handle himself pretty well.  But a tough guy, to me at least, is something else.  

Pac wasn't afraid to throw down though, not saying he was the baddest motherfucker out there or anything. Just if you tried him then you better be ready.

Ghostface, I'm not scared to say he was the toughest out the whole bunch. That cat was the real deal as far as being tough.

[Dan H.]

The whole "Axl is a dangerous and well documented fighter" narrative seems pretty flimsy to me. As a loud, aggressive, emotionally stunted, childish dickhead, of course once and a while yer gonna have a swing at someone. The fact that the only specific incidents ever referenced are him taking 

1. Cheap shots at reporters (most celebrities have done it once)

2. Beating up his wives

3. Dodging legitimate fight offers

kinda makes it sound like he was mostly just a shit talker who hit folks he knew he could take his aggression out on without any threat to himself. We call those people pussies where I come from.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Dan H.

[J Dog]

I bet pre-L.A, Indiana Axl was a pretty tough cat. Just a gut call on that one.

One thing is certain, and I love him to fucking death, Cobain wasn't beating up shit 

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

1 hour ago, J Dog said:

I bet pre-L.A, Indiana Axl was a pretty tough cat. Just a gut call on that one.

One thing is certain, and I love him to fucking death, Cobain wasn't beating up shit 

@J Dogfrom all i have read he was that indeed...he got out of town right before he got arrested....again! which is weird cos his looks belied a violent nature. but it's not the size of the dog in a fight it's the fight in the dog 

Edited December 30, 2016 by AxlsFavoriteRose

[tsinindy]

2 minutes ago, tremolo said:

So you can't back up your statement, you could have said it in 6 words instead 4 paragraphs of bs.

 

Word of mouth... people say... word out on the street... urban legend... nothing concrete, just nonsense bases on rhe logic I like Axl, therefore he is good t everything.I did 

Uh, I did say it in four words originally jackass (you didn't fuck with Axl - OK that's five, same difference), you asked for additional information...LOL.  You are kidding right?

 

Get a clue dude and if you have read my posts I have no particular like or dislike for Ax as a person, I don't know him personally to make such a judgementl.   

[Fitha_whiskey]

Fighting skills aside, whatever they may in fact be. You can't deny that young Axl was one tough motherfucker with no fear to hitchhike or take a bus or whatever to LA with literally nothing but a big set of red haired balls. The dude was given absolutely nothing in life. He fought every day for everything he has.

Plus he'd have whipped Cobain's ass in a heartbeat.

 

[Len Cnut]

My 12 yr old niece could bang Kurt out, God rest his soul

[sanity_lost]

I am amused by this topic.

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by sanity_lost
didn't actually mean to hit submit

[PatrickS77]

On 20.12.2016 at 0:43 AM, Silverburst80 said:

I don't think he's hard per se but Axl always came across as someone who'd fight anyone without really be too concerned about the outcome either way. I mean look at St Louis, he knew before he went after that guy he was affiliated with a biker gang and the security working the show and still went for the fucker. I think the red mist descends in a big way with Rose, apparently his eyes change colour n shit!

As for Courtney Love, could you imagine this cunt yelling shit at you when your trying to go about your day?

 

LOL. Those were the days. And Loder is a douche. Never could stand that guy.