Chicago-Torture/Race Conversation

[Axl owns dexter]

I remember the right being attacked after the election after the racial graffiti was put up. How about this, a legitimate hate crime against a White man (who was also mentally handicapped). Should the left apologize for it's rhetoric. 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/05/hate-crime-charges-filed-in-chicago-beating-shown-on-facebook-live.html

 

[Len Cnut]

36 minutes ago, Axl owns dexter said:

I remember the right being attacked after the election after the racial graffiti was put up. How about this, a legitimate hate crime against a White man (who was also mentally handicapped). Should the left apologize for it's rhetoric. 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/05/hate-crime-charges-filed-in-chicago-beating-shown-on-facebook-live.html

 

Who would you like an apology from?  'The left' is kind of broad and imprecise as a group.  Did anyone from 'the right' apologise?

Edited January 5, 2017 by Len Cnut

[downzy]

Only those who advocate violence, bigotry, and ignorance share some guilt, regardless of their partisan ideology.

Criticisms of Trump and his supporters does not equal calls for violence.  Whatever entered into the minds of these warped and sick individuals is not the fault of those who denounce Trump and Trumpism as dangerous and antithetical to making America, and the rest of the world around it, a better place.  

Btw, Stefan Molyneux is a known racist.  Not sure if this is the kind of source you want to associate yourself with.  

[PappyTron]

21 minutes ago, downzy said:

Only those who advocate violence, bigotry, and ignorance share some guilt, regardless of their partisan ideology.

Criticisms of Trump and his supporters does not equal calls for violence.  Whatever entered into the minds of these warped and sick individuals is not the fault of those who denounce Trump and Trumpism as dangerous and antithetical to making America, and the rest of the world around it, a better place.  

Btw, Stefan Molyneux is a known racist.  Not sure if this is the kind of source you want to associate yourself with.  

I always think that he's the game designer.

I don't think that I've ever watched a video of Molyneux or read anything by him, but the name is distinctive enough that I know he exists on YouTube. You call him a known racist though; do you have any particular examples?

[Len Cnut]

I never understood this mentality, the idea that 'since you expect 'x' of us under a false premise can we have the same from you in return in a similar instance?'.  I mean if you thought it was wrong in the first place why would you demand it in return when the shoes on the other foot?

[-W.A.R-]

i take more of an issue with some dumbass on CNN saying its not a hate crime 

maybe the motive wasn't because his skin but i know for a fact if you flip the roles that same dumbass would be calling it a hate crime and that this is "trumps america"

[downzy]

13 minutes ago, PappyTron said:

I always think that he's the game designer.

I don't think that I've ever watched a video of Molyneux or read anything by him, but the name is distinctive enough that I know he exists on YouTube. You call him a known racist though; do you have any particular examples?

I came across Molyneux a few years ago (lucky me, he's a fellow Canadian).  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he uses his Twitter account to promote the superiority of some races over others.  

[DieselDaisy]

The amount of crimes the left should apoligise for would be very large indeed.

[PappyTron]

2 minutes ago, downzy said:

I came across Molyneux a few years ago (lucky me, he's a fellow Canadian).  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he uses his Twitter account to promote the superiority of some races over others.  

I have no idea. As I said, I just know the name because it's the same as the game designer and distinctive, but what he says or believes is unknown to me, though I can guess.

[Axl owns dexter]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

Only those who advocate violence, bigotry, and ignorance share some guilt, regardless of their partisan ideology.

Criticisms of Trump and his supporters does not equal calls for violence.  Whatever entered into the minds of these warped and sick individuals is not the fault of those who denounce Trump and Trumpism as dangerous and antithetical to making America, and the rest of the world around it, a better place.  

Btw, Stefan Molyneux is a known racist.  Not sure if this is the kind of source you want to associate yourself with.  

Someone on the left does a violent crime, it's only those individuals fault! Someone on the right does vandalism with a swastika or something...there's a culture of hate! Different levels of criticism as I see it.

I like Stefan Molyneux and am not afraid to say it. What is the definition of racist that you are going with to say he is one?

Edited January 6, 2017 by Axl owns dexter

[Axl owns dexter]

Ok this one was just posted for lolz

[PappyTron]

59 minutes ago, Axl owns dexter said:

Ok this one was just posted for lolz

Tommy properly cracks me up.

[ZoSoRose]

Great thread, shut the fuck up

[Graeme]

Nobody on "the left" with half a brain would deny that people from disadvantaged/minority groups can exhibit unacceptable behaviour towards people from privileged backgrounds, from workplace bullying right up to atrocious acts of violence. Nor should they do anything other than condemn it. The difference is that such incidents are not a systemic, institutionalised and statistically significant obstacle to the pursuit of equality of opportunity irrespective of class, race, gender or sexual orientation.

[downzy]

3 hours ago, Axl owns dexter said:

Someone on the left does a violent crime, it's only those individuals fault! Someone on the right does vandalism with a swastika or something...there's a culture of hate! Different levels of criticism as I see it.

I like Stefan Molyneux and am not afraid to say it. What is the definition of racist that you are going with to say he is one?

It's the fault of anyone who endorses or advocates for violence as a political response.

Racist are those who defend or support the notions of a racial hierarchy; that one race is superior (pick your basis: morality, intellectually, culturally, etc) to another.  That's the broad strokes basis.  We can delve deeper if need be, but for Molyneux, that's probably enough.

[PappyTron]

34 minutes ago, downzy said:

It's the fault of anyone who endorses or advocates for violence as a political response.

Racist are those who defend or support the notions of a racial hierarchy; that one race is superior (pick your basis: morality, intellectually, culturally, etc) to another.  That's the broad strokes basis.  We can delve deeper if need be, but for Molyneux, that's probably enough.

Is your grouping for race predicated on phenotypical characteristics, social categorisations and constructions, shared social history, genetic traits or something else?

[downzy]

4 minutes ago, PappyTron said:

Is your grouping for race predicated on phenotypical characteristics, social categorisations and constructions, shared social history, genetic traits or something else?

Pretty much all qualities listed, but more generally how race is perceived by those who wish to grade and evaluate them.  Regardless, it's not my "grouping" of race that's relevant.  

[PappyTron]

2 minutes ago, downzy said:

Pretty much all qualities listed, but more generally how race is perceived by those who wish to grade and evaluate them.  Regardless, it's not my "grouping" of race that's relevant.  

Surely your personal understanding and groupings of what defines race is highly relevant if you are making the statement that a person is inherently racist if they "support the notions of a racial hierarchy" based on supposed characteristics versus another race?

[downzy]

Just now, PappyTron said:

Surely your personal understanding and groupings of what defines race is highly relevant if you are making the statement that a person is inherently racist if they "support the notions of a racial hierarchy" based on supposed characteristics versus another race?

I'm not interested in another bullshit semantics argument with you.  If someone argues that one race is superior on a evolutionary, biological, cultural, or competency basis - they're racist.  

[PappyTron]

2 minutes ago, downzy said:

I'm not interested in another bullshit semantics argument with you.  If someone argues that one race is superior on a evolutionary, biological, cultural, or competency basis - they're racist.  

Asking a person to define what they understand something to be is hardly semantics. If you can't actually define what you believe the word "race" to mean then that's fine; no need to lay a foul tongue on me. You could simply have replied "I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer".

[downzy]

1 minute ago, PappyTron said:

Asking a person to define what they understand something to be is hardly semantics. If you can't actually define what you believe the word "race" to mean then that's fine; no need to lay a foul tongue on me. You could simply have replied "I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer".

It was already answered.  Now stop.

[PappyTron]

2 hours ago, Graeme said:

Nobody on "the left" with half a brain would deny that people from disadvantaged/minority groups can exhibit unacceptable behaviour towards people from privileged backgrounds, from workplace bullying right up to atrocious acts of violence. Nor should they do anything other than condemn it. The difference is that such incidents are not a systemic, institutionalised and statistically significant obstacle to the pursuit of equality of opportunity irrespective of class, race, gender or sexual orientation.

You know that this post is simply fluff. Maybe people should take some personal responsibility in their lives for once, because it is always someone else's fault. Roughly 1/3 black men in America will spend time in prison at some point in their life, but as long as they haven't been framed for a crime they didn't commit then whose fault is that? Being born in the heart of Bumfuck, Michigan, to a single parent, surrounded by gangs, with no easy way out sucks. It sucks the big one, in fact, but personal responsibility trumps all. If a young black man commits a crime then he should be punished for that crime, no matter what his life's circumstances up until that point. In fact, he should be prosecuted "irrespective of class, race, gender or sexual orientation".

[downzy]

"At the root of their complaints, as misleading as they may be, conservatives are calling out liberals for not bringing attention to this attack in the same way they might bring attention to attacks against minority Americans.

But the context matters here. The simple truth is that America has a long history of systemic racism against minorities. There was slavery, which required the Civil War to abolish. Then white supremacist groups, particularly in the South, carried out a racist terrorism campaign for decades in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in the US, culminating in race riots and lynchings explicitly meant to oppress black people. At the same time, state governments — again, largely in the South — imposed Jim Crow laws that forcefully segregated white and black people and stripped black Americans of their voting rights. 

Today, there are continued racial disparities in just about every aspect of American life, including wealth, income, educational attainment, life expectancy, and the criminal justice system. And a man who ran a clearly racist campaign won the presidential election.

It is through this long historic thread that progressives’ concerns about hateful acts against minority Americans developed: It’s not just about an individual police shooting or act of discrimination, but about the broader systemic problems that the individual incident represents. 

There is simply no comparable thread of systemic abuses against white Americans, so anti-white attacks, as abhorrent as they may be, don’t draw as much attention."

http://www.vox.com/identities/2017/1/5/14176650/chicago-torture-video-trump

[PappyTron]

If the position is that black people suffer more than white people through systemic racism which is ingrained in American history and culture and manifests itself in a constant barrage of disproportional maltreatment and oppression, then that would suggest that hate crime against whites is rarer than hate crimes against blacks. If that is the case then a hate crime by blacks against a white person, such as in this video, should gain more media traction, not less, for the fact of its rarity, rather than the media attention placed towards crimes against blacks which are awash in their deluge of commonality, such is the systemic racism that they face on a daily basis. A unicorn is more worthy of news than a horse after all.

[username]

9 hours ago, Axl owns dexter said:

Shouldn't someone on the left be apologizing for this?

 

On my immediate left is a co-worker of mine. But I really don't think he has anything to do with this. Further to the left is a window.