GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Fang]

Hi all! I'm new, but I have been lurking for years. I love the women's thread. Gonna hopefully see GN'R in South Carolina soon, if I can afford to. I've already seen them three times, and have always been in the front, but so far have not been able to get Axl to notice me

As far as the TB topic, I just don't know. I was happy that Beta amd Co. Made him happy (or so it seemed when he brought her onstage in Rock In Rio), but after watching the car video, I don't know if he is actually happy.

[money honey]

18 hours ago, penelope said:

Yeah it is crazy!  It is not so hard to imagine them fighting for the inheritance..

That is an appalling prospect, mostly because it's not unlikely. If he stays single and childless, I hope he leaves all his money to animals' charities. 

17 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

He did say a long time ago that he didn't want any children as long as he felt there may be any danger he could do to them what was done to him. Don't remember the exact words, but that was what he meant. 

Thats sensible I think. 

Poor guy. 

16 hours ago, Italian girl said:

He would be a good father now

I think so too. Nobody needs to be perfect to be a parent. He would certainly have the financial side sorted. With the benefit of years now, he'd be as good a father as anyone.

[Fang]

I think he would be a loving father. I think, though, that he may have given up the idea, seeing as how he seems more into intelligent models that a serious relationship. I wonder if he would ever even be able to get turned on by a regular woman...I don't want to think he is shallow. He's too intelligent for that. But most of what I have seen makes me think he is...

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, money honey said:

That is an appalling prospect, mostly because it's not unlikely. If he stays single and childless, I hope he leaves all his money to animals' charities. 

But it's still a lot of money for charities. There's no way Beta is not in his will yet. I'm sure she is.

1 hour ago, money honey said:

I think so too. Nobody needs to be perfect to be a parent. He would certainly have the financial side sorted. With the benefit of years now, he'd be as good a father as anyone.

Even though the financial side is important, I still don't think it is the main thing you need to raise a child. No one is perfect, of course, but I believe there are some traits that you certainly need to be a good parent and I'm not sure he has them. You need lots of patience, love and a will to stop being the center of your own life. You have to devote your time to someone else, fill their needs and help them, guide them through life.

1 hour ago, Fang said:

Hi all! I'm new, but I have been lurking for years. I love the women's thread. Gonna hopefully see GN'R in South Carolina soon, if I can afford to. I've already seen them three times, and have always been in the front, but so far have not been able to get Axl to notice me

 

19 minutes ago, Fang said:

I think he would be a loving father. I think, though, that he may have given up the idea, seeing as how he seems more into intelligent models that a serious relationship. I wonder if he would ever even be able to get turned on by a regular woman...I don't want to think he is shallow. He's too intelligent for that. But most of what I have seen makes me think he is...

Hi and welcome!

He seems pretty shallow to me.... telling by the kind of people he surrounds himself with

Looks like he cannot have what Duff and Slash have... a bond with women closer in age and not kids that could be their daughters. Axl seems to be looking more for admirers and adorers, rather than an equal person with whom share a life project. It is very difficult to project things with younger people, unless they are willing to adapt to the life of an older person with all the obstacles and issues that it brings. Not many are willing to do that and much less in our days, when most women have conquered a level of freedom they are not willing to compromise for some guy.

 

[Frey]

On 25.7.2017 at 9:46 PM, Georgina Arriaga said:

Fuuuuuuuuck

That is not fucking normal

In Axl's defense, he was also pretty drunk when that incident happened.

On the other hand, even on occasions when I was drunk as fuck, I never felt the need to throw a toddler-ish temper tantrum in a public place or to bite some guy's thigh

So yes, I do also tend to think this kind of behavior is far from normal and it's just one thing of many that makes me think Axl is (or was) more seriously messed up than a lot of people like to believe.

On 25.7.2017 at 5:46 PM, Georgina Arriaga said:

@penelope agree with you here. Yes about her family....I read in some place that even Beta's sister and brother had a job in some capacity in GNR...in my opinion that is very exploitative....I don't know if now it's the case, but for example, Vanessa's husband.... what he do for GNR? and you see in their Instagram "GNR family" and shit like that...and honestly I have not seen Axl in a single picture at those fancy restaurants where "GNR family" go

TB and TB-related people who financially depend on Axl:

Beta, Fernando, Fernando's wife, Fernando's daughter, Vanessa, Vanessa's husband, Vanessa's daughter, Vanessa's daughter's nanny, Beta's sister, Beta's brother, and I'm sure there's many more I'm not even aware of.

It's pretty terrifying.

23 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Holy shit.  That's helluva hot mess of co-dependency right there.  Fucking hell, Axl.  Well, he certainly doesn't need that kind of mother-figure!  What he needs is a strong independent woman with whom he shares mutual love and respect, who'll kick his ass just like she said she would, not pander to him like a brat, or use him to validate her own existence.  Must be so frustrating for his bandmates to see him living his life like that.  But thanks for that info, hey.  I am now very much more enlightened than I was before!

You're welcome. There's also another link to a post detailing all the reasons why people are suspicious of TB in the thread index if you want to read more about that topic.

1 hour ago, Fang said:

I think he would be a loving father. I think, though, that he may have given up the idea, seeing as how he seems more into intelligent models that a serious relationship. I wonder if he would ever even be able to get turned on by a regular woman...I don't want to think he is shallow. He's too intelligent for that. But most of what I have seen makes me think he is...

As long as she is reasonably attractive, I'd assume so. He's dated/had sexual relations with plenty of "regular" women in the past. And also more recently (Ellen Jabour for example is not a model, is she? Looked rather average to me in any case)

Also, speaking from personal experience, I've never met a guy who would "restrict" himself only to women who are certified models... I mean, why would you, when there are so many other beautiful women out there

 

23 hours ago, killuridols said:

omg the way you tell this story always cracks me up to hell

But we () children dont want that!

We () want our mom and dad to take care of us, be there with their cuddling, kissing, tucking in, cooking our breakfast and meals, lifting us up from the floor when we fall. We want our mom and dad cleaning our shit and vomit and for them to scold us too and join us in whatever games we invent. We want our parents involved in our lives, not scared of touching poop and blood and whatever comes out from our bodies  and not freaking out when we get fever and other diseases

I'm sorry I had to "revert to a toddler" here but I needed to be graphical so to make my points!

Well, it is a pretty funny story after all if you can have a sense of humor about it, so it deserves to be told accordingly lol.

As for the parenting thing, I think Axl would be perfectly capable of most of the things you listed there. He'd definitely be good at playing with and entertaining kids (going by what we've heard from other people), he can do the cuddling and kissing thing nowadays (he's doing it with TB and his animals after all) and it seems he can even cook and feed himself if he's forced to, so...

As for the rest of it... I'm just going to say I'm pretty sure my dad never changed any diapers either in his life or anything like that , but he still was (and is) a great dad. So the child won't be doomed by that.

The main problems I'd see with Axl raising a child would be

a) can he keep his temper in check when the kid is being difficult and

b) what if he has another depressive episode and doesn't crawl out of his bed for weeks?

I think with regards to a) he seems to have put a lot of thought into that issue in the 80s already and he talked about dealing with this issue again a few years later when Dylan was in his life. Iirc he said something along the lines of needing to remind himself to stay calm when Dylan was being difficult because he's just a kid and doesn't know any better. And he must have managed reasonably well, because for all Stephanie has accused Axl of, she has never accused him of mistreating her child in any way. He's probably also around TB's babies and toddlers a lot at the moment, so I figure he's got at least some amount of experience in dealing with them.

We don't really have enough information to judge how much of an issue b) would be nowadays, but in general we (as a society) don't stop people with mental health issues from having children and in Axl's case the kid would at least be taken care of by nannies or TB or whoever in the meantime. Which is already a lot more than most children in such situations would get. All in all, I think a kid could have it much worse than to have Axl as a dad and he might be better at it than we (or even he himself) would expect.

 

59 minutes ago, killuridols said:

There's no way Beta is not in his will yet. I'm sure she is.

On 25.7.2017 at 6:16 PM, penelope said:

Yeah it is crazy!  It is not so hard to imagine them fighting for the inheritance..

This is gonna be so, so ugly.

And it's not just Axl's private money we're dealing with here, but also the rights to the GNR back catalogue, the band name, etc. probably.

Imagine all of that ending up in TB's (most likely Fernando's) hands?

If Axl dies before Slash and Duff, I assume they wouldn't be happy about that either.

So I predict Slash & Duff vs. TB legal battles in the future, no matter how well they seem to get along with TB at the moment.

 

 

 

[killuridols]

9 minutes ago, Frey said:

Also, speaking from personal experience, I've never met a guy who would "restrict" himself only to women who are certified models... I mean, why would you, when there are so many other beautiful women out there

The problem is that he's not "out there" like you and other guys ..... whenever he goes out is to those places full of models and other women of that type, so he's restricted to that because that's his natural environment.

It's like I wanted to marry a Prince how in the hell would I meet one if my social circle solely consists of regular bums like myself??

12 minutes ago, Frey said:

The main problems I'd see with Axl raising a child would be

a) can he keep his temper in check when the kid is being difficult and

b) what if he has another depressive episode and doesn't crawl out of his bed for weeks?

He's probably also around TB's babies and toddlers a lot at the moment, so I figure he's got at least some amount of experience in dealing with them.

We don't really have enough information to judge how much of an issue b) would be nowadays, but in general we (as a society) don't stop people with mental health issues from having children and in Axl's case the kid would at least be taken care of by nannies or TB or whoever in the meantime. Which is already a lot more than most children in such situations would get. All in all, I think a kid could have it much worse than to have Axl as a dad and he might be better at it than we (or even he himself) would expect.

Well, I disrespectfully disagree

(kidding)

Um, TB kids, they don't live with Axl actually. Fernando has his home and Vanessa too. With the lack of patience he has (look at the video of the wrong car) I'm sure he wouldn't be willing to tolerate a screaming toddler throwing a tantrum for too long. I'm sure he's asked them to bring the children when they are not being assholes, and as soon as one of them is misbehaving, the nannies must run after them so they dont bother "uncle Axl".

And I'm not sure about the mental health issues and society..... of course, no one is tested before they become a parent but if you mistreat children and other people observe you and denounce you, I do think the government intervenes. At least they do here. We have official organizations in charge of controlling situations that go out of hand and they can really take your kid away if it is proven that you give them a bad life.

Personally, I'm totally against people having children for the sake of it, just to fullfill their needs of companion, a partner or whatever hole they have in their lives. Like I said before, I advocate for quality of life and not for just "living" because someone said so. Don't bring children to this world if you're gonna be a jerk to them, cause them emotional problems and wreck them for life. We already have too many people fucked up by selfish people who couldn't stop themselves from being egotistical fucks. Axl himself is the product of two people who were not meant to have children and shouldn't have raised any child because they were totally inept.

It looks to me back in the day he was pretty aware of this line of thought and that is something to admire on him. I don't know what is his take now. Seems like he's still on that line. We, as humans, can do much more than just reproduce ourselves like rabbits. It is time that we start looking for quality of life, not quantity.

 

[Frey]

7 minutes ago, killuridols said:

The problem is that he's not "out there" like you and other guys ..... whenever he goes out is to those places full of models and other women of that type, so he's restricted to that because that's his natural environment.

It's like I wanted to marry a Prince how in the hell would I meet one if my social circle solely consists of regular bums like myself??

Yeah, but the question I was replying to was "could he even be attracted to a regular woman". And I'm saying yes, I think he most likely could, in theory. Now him actually meeting a regular woman to be attracted to is a different story, I agree on that.

 

7 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Um, TB kids, they don't live with Axl actually. Fernando has his home and Vanessa too. With the lack of patience he has (look at the video of the wrong car) I'm sure he wouldn't be willing to tolerate a screaming toddler throwing a tantrum for too long. I'm sure he's asked them to bring the children when they are not being assholes, and as soon as one of them is misbehaving, the nannies must run after them so they dont bother "uncle Axl".

And I'm not sure about the mental health issues and society..... of course, no one is tested before they become a parent but if you mistreat children and other people observe you and denounce you, I do think the government intervenes. At least they do here. We have official organizations in charge of controlling situations that go out of hand and they can really take your kid away if it is proven that you give them a bad life.

Personally, I'm totally against people having children for the sake of it, just to fullfill their needs of companion, a partner or whatever hole they have in their lives. Like I said before, I advocate for quality of life and not for just "living" because someone said so. Don't bring children to this world if you're gonna be a jerk to them, cause them emotional problems and wreck them for life. We already have too many people fucked up by selfish people who couldn't stop themselves from being egotistical fucks. Axl himself is the product of two people who were not meant to have children and shouldn't have raised any child because they were totally inept.

It looks to me back in the day he was pretty aware of this line of thought and that is something to admire on him. I don't know what is his take now. Seems like he's still on that line. We, as humans, can do much more than just reproduce ourselves like rabbits. It is time that we start looking for quality of life, not quantity.

Yeah the kids don't live with him, but we know they are over at his house sometimes and are on tour with their parents a lot, so he probably is around them quite a bit. And they're kids (and pretty young ones at that), so I'm sure them misbehaving around Axl can't always be avoided 100%. And even if they're only around him when they're happy and sweet... that still gives you some hands-on experience in handling kids.

I am also against people having children just for the sake of it, but hypothetically speaking (or not so hypothetically, since he has expressed that wish a couple of times in the past), if Axl truly wanted children, I wouldn't be appalled by the prospect and immediately start worrying about the poor children (unless I'm given a reason to suspect otherwise).

 

 

 

[Zoot]

I feel terrible for their family and Duff. Losing a pet is incredibly hard and to have to go perform so soon after is going to be really hard on him.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Kris_1989

[purplestargirl]

1 hour ago, Kris_1989 said:

I feel terrible for their family and Duff. Losing a pet is incredibly hard and to have to go perform so soon after is going to be really hard on him.

Awe. I was wondering what was going on with him. I knew he was having health problems via Susan's IG posts. Wasn't Buckley getting on in years? 

[killuridols]

38 minutes ago, Frey said:

I am also against people having children just for the sake of it, but hypothetically speaking (or not so hypothetically, since he has expressed that wish a couple of times in the past), if Axl truly wanted children, I wouldn't be appalled by the prospect and immediately start worrying about the poor children (unless I'm given a reason to suspect otherwise).

lol well... I wouldn't be appalled by the prospect of it

I think I'd be happy and surprised, but if he decides to do it, after so many years, I would think it has to be a well-thought-out decision on his part, so I'd trust him and wish him well

---

I forgot I wanted to comment on this too:

1 hour ago, Frey said:

This is gonna be so, so ugly.

And it's not just Axl's private money we're dealing with here, but also the rights to the GNR back catalogue, the band name, etc. probably.

Imagine all of that ending up in TB's (most likely Fernando's) hands?

If Axl dies before Slash and Duff, I assume they wouldn't be happy about that either.

So I predict Slash & Duff vs. TB legal battles in the future, no matter how well they seem to get along with TB at the moment.

I agree it's gonna be ugly..... kinda like the battle between Kurt's family and Courtney.

There's TB on one side and there is also............ the sister and the brother and what about Erin? can she claim something if she remains the only wife until Axl's death?

My biggest problem is with the GN'R back catalogue, the band name, etc. If it goes with TB we are lost forever but I don't think Slash & Duff will let it happen. I hope Izzy and Steven could have a saying too! but I dont know if it's even possible.

Del has been in charge of biographies and shit like that.... do you think Axl could give him any power regarding music?

All in all, the situation is bad for us fans..... we need Slash & Duff living forever

 

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by killuridols

[Ratam]

42 minutes ago, Kris_1989 said:

I feel terrible for their family and Duff. Losing a pet is incredibly hard and to have to go perform so soon after is going to be really hard on him.

Axl lost his dog while he was in  Europe and said words on stage in homage  of  his dog ?

[dgnr]

1 hour ago, Kris_1989 said:

I feel terrible for their family and Duff. Losing a pet is incredibly hard and to have to go perform so soon after is going to be really hard on him.

Oh man, that's sad  When I lost my dog 3 years ago, who was with me since I was 5 year old, it was terrible. I spent the whole day crying, I had a final exam at uni and I just couldn't make it. It was my dad's birthday and while everyone was singing him happy birthday I was just crying. Feel really sorry for the Mckagan's. It's hard.

[killuridols]

That Buckley dog was very cute

I remember Susan posted a big thanks to the people who took care of him while they were away in Europe.

Poor dog, he waited for them to come back so he could die

 

[Blackstar]

I've been (re)reading some interviews. This one from 1992 has interesting quotes, some relevant to the discussion here:

HP: Do you like being with people, or do you consider yourself a loner?

AR: I like a lot of solitude, but then every now and again I get claustrophobic with that and I want to go around a large group of people. After you've had a lot of solitude - I tend to get very vulnerable, it's like when you go outside and you start dealing with a lot of stuff, there just doesn't seem to be a way to slow things down. You can get out of the scene for a while, and then you bet back out, it all comes caving in on you all at once. I find myself pretty much vulnerable, like a little kid out in the world he hasn't seen before. It takes a while to get your grips back on that.
...
HP: Do you ever think about growing old?
AR: Now and then. A lot of times though I can feel like a little kid, or I'll feel like I'm 90 years old. So it doesn't really phase me. I picture it, but I just can't necessarily see it. Being an old, bald guy - me? I can't see it.
HP: Is there anything you wish you could be better at?
AR: Making road life a little bit smoother, so that everyone around me doesn't get so pissed off, 'cause I freak on them.
...
HP: Would you say that you're a happy or unhappy person?
AR: I don't have a clue.
HP: What encourages you?
AR: Good support from the people around me, who are real. Also, inpsiration.
HP: What discourages you?
AR: Distrust, and a feeling that you can't trust a situation. That makes you go, 'Man, this isn't worth dealing with.' Bascially I'm here just to make my songs, everything else is just second fiddle, and if I gotta deal with this crap on top of it, life's bullshit, then you just kinda get discouraged on the whole thing, 'cause you know that you can always go and figure out how to scrounge up the money for a room, and still write you songs.
HP: What are some of the characteristics in people that you have the most respect for?
AR: Honesty. A person that sticks to their guns and follows their heart over everything else, strength and persistence, and a person who can findthe courage to bounce back when it would be easier not to.
HP: And which characteristics do you depise?
AR: People that have the brains and intelligence to actually create something, but they take the easy way to get the fast buck, rather than be themselves. I also hate dishonesty.

...

HP: What kind of women to you like?
AR: Let's just say I like discreet women, and they have to be intelligent, preferably much more intelligent than me.
HP: Can you remember your first date and where did you take her?
AR: It was with a girl named April, and we had the date in her room. I had to sneak in her window, and out her window.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Blackstar

[killuridols]

16 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Bascially I'm here just to make my songs, everything else is just second fiddle, and if I gotta deal with this crap on top of it, life's bullshit, then you just kinda get discouraged on the whole thing, 'cause you know that you can always go and figure out how to scrounge up the money for a room, and still write you songs.

Why does he use that word? "scrounge up the money"?

It is a good interview. Great to read it after so many years, like foreseeing the future....... some things did not come out the way he had thought of them. Others seem contradictory to what he shows about himself.

[Blackstar]

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Why does he use that word? "scrounge up the money"?

I guess he means that sometimes he feels it's not worth to have to deal with the band's problems, the business aspect etc, ie. everything other that making songs; and that he could quit all this (including the big money) because it would be easier and less frustrating for him to just have to come up with some money for a room. 

[killuridols]

4 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I guess he means that sometimes he feels it's not worth to have to deal with the band's problems, the business aspect etc, ie. everything other that making songs; and that he could quit all this (including the big money) because it would be easier and less frustrating for him to just have to come up with some money for a room. 

omg lolAxl

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, killuridols said:

omg lolAxl

It seems that when he gave this interview things were pretty shitty both with Slash/the band and Stephanie...

[killuridols]

6 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It seems that when he gave this interview things were pretty shitty both with Slash/the band and Stephanie...

lol you say because of some of the passive-aggressive answers?

[Blackstar]

9 minutes ago, killuridols said:

lol you say because of some of the passive-aggressive answers?

Yes, especially the parts where he talks about what discourages him and he dislikes, the "crap" in the band, who his friends are etc. A couple more:

HP: Is it hard to keep all the fame from going to your head?
AR: Yeah, but at the same time, I have a certain close group of friends that I try to spend as much time with as possible... and it's like for some reason Guns N' Roses is always on the brink of some kind of disaster and whenever there's a major problem, it's amazing that I get a few phone calls from a few of those close friends. Well these same people help keep me in perspective of myself.

...

HP: What's the most valuable thing you've learned since you became successful?
AR: Never underestimate yourself or anyone else around you, and especially never underestimate your opponent.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Blackstar

[killuridols]

25 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, especially the parts where he talks about what discourages him and he dislikes, the "crap" in the band, who his friends are etc. A couple more:

HP: Is it hard to keep all the fame from going to your head?
AR: Yeah, but at the same time, I have a certain close group of friends that I try to spend as much time with as possible... and it's like for some reason Guns N' Roses is always on the brink of some kind of disaster and whenever there's a major problem, it's amazing that I get a few phone calls from a few of those close friends. Well these same people help keep me in perspective of myself.

...

HP: What's the most valuable thing you've learned since you became successful?
AR: Never underestimate yourself or anyone else around you, and especially never underestimate your opponent.

oh, to me the passive-aggressive ones were:

HP: What are some of the characteristics in people that you have the most respect for?
AR: Honesty. A person that sticks to their guns and follows their heart over everything else, strength and persistence, and a person who can find the courage to bounce back when it would be easier not to.
HP: And which characteristics do you depise?
AR: People that have the brains and intelligence to actually create something, but they take the easy way to get the fast buck, rather than be themselves. I also hate dishonesty.

SLASHA

[Fang]

I wonder what he means by "discreet" women. Women not in the public eye? That's the opposite of models. But he does like them intelligent, heehee.

I know I go on and on about his taste in women a bit much, but it's always made me curious. His taste in women and his treatment of women are things that make it hard to like him, but I have loved him since I was 11. Even though I am happily married and may never meet him, I have an unhealthy obsession with trying to learn who the Real Axl Rose is...

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, killuridols said:

oh, to me the passive-aggressive ones were:

HP: What are some of the characteristics in people that you have the most respect for?
AR: Honesty. A person that sticks to their guns and follows their heart over everything else, strength and persistence, and a person who can find the courage to bounce back when it would be easier not to.
HP: And which characteristics do you depise?
AR: People that have the brains and intelligence to actually create something, but they take the easy way to get the fast buck, rather than be themselves. I also hate dishonesty.

SLASHA

I don't know... the first one especially wasn't among the ones that stroke me much as implying something. It seems to me that he speaks more in general here, because he had said similar things in old interviews.

I had also in mind the part @Fang pointed out about "discreet" women. It probably alludes to things "leaking" in magazines from Stephanie's side, like the one I posted the other day about Axl wanting her to do therapy with him. And, most importantly, he doesn't mention her at all in this interview and he doesn't come out as positive as in other interviews from that period. If the date is correct, this interview was before his RS one.

[Fang]

@Blackstar that makes sense. He probably was taking a jab at Steph. She did go to the media a lot, and he's good at making jabs. That whole interview seems full of 'em.

[killuridols]

27 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I don't know... the first one especially wasn't among the ones that stroke me much as implying something. It seems to me that he speaks more in general here, because he had said similar things in old interviews.

I had also in mind the part @Fang pointed out about "discreet" women. It probably alludes to things "leaking" in magazines from Stephanie's side, like the one I posted the other day about Axl wanting her to do therapy with him. And, most importantly, he doesn't mention her at all in this interview and he doesn't come out as positive as in other interviews from that period. If the date is correct, this interview was before his RS one.

I thought he would be talking about Slash being creative and all that but not wanting to use his skills for GN'R but to go playing with Michael Jackson and other "easy money" things he wanted to do outside the band.

I think I remember him complaining about such things about Slash, not sure...

As for women, yeah, you're right.... he could be talking about Steph.... what month in 1992 was this article from?