YES OR NO - STONES/MICK - AXL/GUNS

[Thorbear]

Just now, Get In the Ring Motherfker said:

Maybe I am mistaken, but I think Duff exited in 97'

You are probably correct. I just pulled the years out of thin air to make my alternate reality-example in which they put out an album between each member leaving, I have no idea when each member actually left  

[wasted]

If Brian Johnson joins the current line up in place of Axl, I'm out. 

[Lies They Tell]

If Mick Jagger recorded an album with a band called Rolling Stones, then obviously it would be a Rolling Stones record. I don't understand how there's any question about it. A fact is a fact even if you don't like the fact.

[MADDOGJONES]

10 hours ago, Sunset Gardner said:

i don't understand how there is any question weather axl's solo band were employees and CD a solo record.  

1) if Axl had a solo band (which he never has) the people he played with him may or may not be employees. Who knows? He's never had a solo band so it's hypothetical. He could split shares with his solo band, so anything is possible in imaginary land.

2) No one ever has questioned whether the guys playing in the CD era with Axl were "employees". You've created a straw man argument there to serve your own purposes. That's disgraceful. 

3) Chinese democracy is not a solo record it is an album by guns n roses. This is a fact, you don't get to change facts just because you have an opinion that a fact is not a fact. Opinions don't trump or change facts.

Your argument is non existent and built on a bed of BS. You lose.

Edited March 16, 2017 by MADDOGJONES

[AlexC]

This is the most tired opinion of anything in the history of the world. It's doesn't matter if there was only Axl left from the original line-up. It was still Guns N' Roses and Chinese Democracy is a Guns N' Roses album whether you like it or not.

Also, if they released a brand new album tomorrow in the same style as Chinese Democracy but Slash and Duff had writing credits on it, all you people who never stop whining over how shit and different Chinese Democracy is would absolutely have a different attitude towards a new release. Even if you noticed a drastic change in sound and it made you uncomfortable or whatever the fuck, your opinion would be insanely less critical.

It's like you're unable to separate subjective listening from your annoyance of a particular band member wearing a bucket for a hat.

Ridiculous.

37 minutes ago, wasted said:

If Brian Johnson joins the current line up in place of Axl, I'm out. 

Me too, but you'd still have to admit that it would still be Guns N' Roses.

[wasted]

Definitely it's GNR. Really it's just up to the individual. You shouldn't be too wrapped up in it. Do you like the music is more important. I don't listen to AFD just because it's the real GNR. So when I got over it I didn't so much. I've found stuff I've liked on records the critics hated too. It doesn't have to be the best most pure five star album to listen to it. That's too Blabbermouth comments poster for me. Korn's debut album is good, everything else sucks, look at my exquisite taste. It's Korn for the love of Charlie it's not impossible they stopped sucking on Paths of Totality. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by wasted

[Słash]

2 hours ago, wasted said:

Definitely it's GNR. Really it's just up to the individual. You shouldn't be too wrapped up in it. Do you like the music is more important. I don't listen to AFD just because it's the real GNR. So when I got over it I didn't so much. I've found stuff I've liked on records the critics hated too. It doesn't have to be the best most pure five star album to listen to it. That's too Blabbermouth comments poster for me. Korn's debut album is good, everything else sucks, look at my exquisite taste. It's Korn for the love of Charlie it's not impossible they stopped sucking on Paths of Totality. 

Well its like how they replaced you on Two and a Half Men, but it was not the same without you. But in that one guy was replaced.

GNR got over in the 90's and then Axl started his band and Slash started his, duff started his, Izzy started his and Steven started his. 

[AlexC]

24 minutes ago, Słash said:

Well its like how they replaced you on Two and a Half Men, but it was not the same without you. But in that one guy was replaced.

GNR got over in the 90's and then Axl started his band and Slash started his, duff started his, Izzy started his and Steven started his. 

No that's the point. Axl didn't start anything. He continued and the others didn't. Regardless of how different it sounded. That'd be like saying once Steven was gone, it was a new band that recorded UYI. Then when Izzy left, the rest of the tour was a new band and their first record was TSI. It's always been GN'R, whether you like all its incarnations or not is irrelevant.

[Słash]

11 minutes ago, AlexC said:

No that's the point. Axl didn't start anything. He continued and the others didn't. Regardless of how different it sounded. That'd be like saying once Steven was gone, it was a new band that recorded UYI. Then when Izzy left, the rest of the tour was a new band and their first record was TSI. It's always been GN'R, whether you like all its incarnations or not is irrelevant.

So well VR was GNR then, basically Axl left

Slash, Duff and Matt stayed on, replaced Axl with Scott and Gilby with Kushner

[AlexC]

1 minute ago, Słash said:

So well VR was GNR then, basically Axl left

Slash, Duff and Matt stayed on, replaced Axl with Scott and Gilby with Kushner

No. Axl didn't leave shit.

[Słash]

5 minutes ago, AlexC said:

No. Axl didn't leave shit.

You can see the guys History, whoever works with him, basically leaves him. 

[AlexC]

Just now, Słash said:

You can see the guys History, whoever works with him, basically leaves him. 

Well there we go, you've just proved my point. Izzy, Slash and Duff left GN'R. Therefore whoever is left, (Axl and Dizzy) is GN'R. If Axl said "fuck it, Guns is over" then yes, it would be over. But he didn't, he decided to continue and replace said members. So regardless if former members started another band together or the replacement musicians were a far cry from the originals has no bearing on whether or not it's Guns N' Roses or not.

[Słash]

Just now, AlexC said:

Well there we go, you've just proved my point. Izzy, Slash and Duff left GN'R. Therefore whoever is left, (Axl and Dizzy) is GN'R. If Axl said "fuck it, Guns is over" then yes, it would be over. But he didn't, he decided to continue and replace said members. So regardless if former members started another band together or the replacement musicians were a far cry from the originals has no bearing on whether or not it's Guns N' Roses or not.

The band from 1999 to 2014 was not Guns N' Roses

[AlexC]

Just now, Słash said:

The band from 1999 to 2014 was not Guns N' Roses

Yes it was. Even if you didn't like those particular incarnations. It was Guns N' Roses. I didn't like it either and I agree with your criticism but you can't just deny fact.

[ludurigan]

19 hours ago, Sunset Gardner said:

i don't understand how there is any question weather axl's solo band were employees and CD a solo record.  

if mick jagger hired musicians to write with and for him and it was Mick and ONLY MICK on the record would it be a Rolling Stones record?  yes or no.  or just a Mick record?  if you saw Mick Jagger in concert and it was ONLY MICK with a band he hired, would you say that you saw The Rolling Stones?  yes or no.  or would you say you just saw mick jagger?

simple yes or no.  

you have to be lunatic to think that whatever axl did from 1996 to 2015 had anything to do with GNR

 

[Archtop]

This will never be resolved and will go round and round as it all comes down to your relationship with the band and not what is written on paper. For me Guns n Roses was AFD and to a lesser extent (I felt theloss of Steven) UYI this is where my memories are, the band were part of my story. If Axl goes out with new musicians using the name, to me it's not Guns n Roses. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate what his doing, I might even love it but it's not the band as I remember it and I don't have an emotional connection.
The Rolling Stones to me is Mick, Keith, Ronny and Charlie, my father will argue it's not the stones without Mick Taylor, because that was his era no matter how good Ronny is, my fathers relationship with the band doesn't include him.
So it all boils down to how tolerant we are as individuals of having something that brings us happiness altered, changed or replaced. I need more than Axl, for it to be GnR for me.

[WhazUp]

I used to be very gun-ho about this debate a few years ago, basically saying that sure the GNR name is on CD but that doesn't mean its the same band

I still feel that way but I realize that all in all - it doesn't really matter that much, does it?  At least to me I look at it as, so what Axl put the GNR name on it?  I don't consider it the same band but I am not going to condescend multiple people on this forum by saying their way of looking at it is wrong no matter what they feel about it.  

The name GNR is on the record - that is a fact.  What that means though, is up to you personally.  

Edited March 16, 2017 by WhazUp

[skassi]

It's not the answer you're looking for but yes accompanied by an *. He couldn't tour with that name unless he owned it and I'd say I saw TRS but...

I consider CD an AR solo album but he owns the name and I don't have any problem with him using it. If he and his band hadn't stood us up in 2002 (Vancouver) I would have said I saw Guns N' Roses but...

Would it be GNR if Axl had conceded the name and Duff and Slash had carried it forward? The answer should be yes but...

 

[wasted]

9 hours ago, Słash said:

Well its like how they replaced you on Two and a Half Men, but it was not the same without you. But in that one guy was replaced.

GNR got over in the 90's and then Axl started his band and Slash started his, duff started his, Izzy started his and Steven started his. 

It's still Two and a Half men but just not awesome. 

But that is subjective, I enjoyed AK in Men 2. There were some good episodes. 

[giuls]

This made me kinda laugh because, well, it's not like the Stones didn't undergo many formation change, Ian Stewart was demoted to a roadie pre-debut when he was in the band originally, Brian jones was sacked, Mick Taylor left to be replaced by Ronnie Wood who was called a member officially  years later, Bill Wyman left and now the bass is played by Daryl Jones who is regarded as roadie even if he's been playing with them for more than 20 years now so by your logic the Rolling Stones aren't The Rolling Stones already but everyone say they're The Rolling Stones, not nu!Stones even if there are only 3 original members left.

Returning to GNR, Axl has the legal right to it so it's GNR, my feelings about it notwithstanding so i would say i saw GNR or the Rolling Stones, maybe i would say that of the original members there was only Axl or Mick but that's it, i simply like to call things by their name even if i don't like it.

 

 I don't see many people say that the UYI era gnr are nu!gnr because no Izzy and very few people say TRS aren't the stones anymore because no Bill but they do exist so  it seems to me that it's subjective, everyone has their idea on which member "make" the band what it is so you do you, i guess, it's not like they're going to change the band name on ChiDem and everyone has a different idea on the subject of it being bullshit or not but the comparison with the Stones was funny, it made me laugh, so kudos   

[moreblack]

They'd be seeing a brand not a band.

[trev]

It's always been Motorhead for as long as Lemmy was around...

[Original]

1985 ish - 1993= Guns N Roses.  Late 1995-2015 was Axl Rose solo touring under the GnR banner for $$$ purposes only.  2016-current = Guns n Roses.  

[Solostaran]

Hi my first post here byen lurking several years before signing up.

 

My view on this is as follows .  

Yes Alx Can call it guns n roses but to many it's not.

 

Think Of it this way : you go in to a mcdonald's and order a hamburger you get the burger in paper that sats mcdonald's and hamburger, when you open it you get a sliced patatoe with beef in the middle ketchup and mustard have been replaced by vinegar and hot sauce, pickles are now asparagus you still got the onion sometimes you taste them others you dont. Now you go and complain to the manager but alle her says is you got my version of at hamburger.

 

Storrygere for any misspells 

 

[wasted]

You gotta be hungry man.