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Immigration/Refugee Thread


Axl owns dexter

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17 minutes ago, Lio said:

Why not? Not saying it will be easy, but the situation that we are in now, doesn't have an easy solution either.

Doesn't it seem better to have refugees closer to their home (in humaner conditions!) than having them risk their lives traveling through Europe where there's a culture clash? I know I'd rather stay in, I don't know, France, until the war is over than having to cross the Mediterranean to end up in the Middle-East where I don't know anything, not the country, not the customs, not the language etc.

I mean, I know it's not a cut and dried solution, but to me, it seems much better in  the long run than what we're doing now, which is always short term vision. We are assuming most of those refugees are here not because they want to be here so badly, but because they feel it's safer here than, there, right? So why not try to give them that safety closer to home? Or have we given up on ever getting peace completely now, and are we thinking they'll never be able to go back again?

So it is an actual proposal then? :lol:  I feel rotten now cuz i like Goatee!

Anyway, I just don't think it'd work.  I mean fuck knows, I'm just another twat with an opinion right but i just don't think it's realistic at all.  First of all, whoose gonna set em up?  The UN?  The country that flattened em in the first place?  Or perhaps the countries afraid of having to accommodate them?  We're all grown ups here, how realistic does that sound, that (in the second instance) that countries that don't care enough to stop them getting flattened in the first place are gonna have some kinda cumbaya hands across the world epiphany and set up all these lovely little camps for these folks to live in, y'know, like The Happy Place, where the sun shines all day, how likely is that d'ya reckon?  I mean you've seen the bloke in charge of America recently yeah? :lol:  

Also, you're basically talking about lumping a great chunk of society into these camps, the good with the bad, the same bad you're afraid of hitting your own shores, thats kinda leaving the good people in their to the wolves.  Now i realise in that statement there is an admission that a portion, however great or small, of the incoming influx of refugees might be a bunch of nutters, well it's true they could be, so basically what you're doing is locking the grannys and daughters up with the Scarfaces.  It might suprise some people but y'know how like, you're afraid of the killers and psychos on the street?  Well the same goes for the vast majority of the refugees.  In the same way I wouldn't want myself or my family suddenly locked in a fuckin' camp with half the fuckin' cunts that walk the streets of London were it ever, God forbid, to be bombed to shit too.  Anyway, it's a joke, the whole idea, like I said, you think governments that bomb the God lovin' fuck out of these countries give that much of a shit to set up all these lovely wonderful little camps, come on, like that's gonna happen.  

Like I said, the solution would've been not fuckin' with em in the first place.  Yeah I get that it's done now so lets look for a solution but to be honest I find that response kinda troubling.  I mean we're talking about a serious grave moral crime here.  'oh sorry, well its done now' as far as accountability doesn't really cut it.  And why does this 'oh well, nevermind!' attitude work when its their lives getting destroyed but not the other sides when they are affected by an influx of refugees?  I mean fuck it right, the balls rollin' now, so there's been a few rapes, nyaaaaah, forget it, whats a rape here or there, it's done now right?  Not at all an acceptable response, is it?  No, i don't think so either.

All this shit is just putting kiddie plasters over gunshots wounds, no one cares, not really.  Take em out back, pop em in the back of the head and throw em in the ocean, that'd be the most honest approach.

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1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

I'm somewhat conflicted because I can see the hypocritical/lazy aspects so I'm trying to figure it out.

For the sake of diversity @Len Cnut I'll give you an example of white immigrants that aren't exactly welcome here in NZ, as far as I(and many others) are concerned: very wealthy people typically Americans(like James Cameron) or Chinese coming here and buying up tons of premium land and beachfront properties or even offshore islands like our whole country is just their quaint private getaway. Especially given the fact that most of them don't even live here permanently and might come here once every 6 months or whatever but tbh even if they're here permanently if I'm ever at the beach and I see a great big gate saying private property blocking off whole sections of beach I go out of my way to trespass and swim in that area lol.

I feel this is a legitimate concern but obviously its nowhere near as dire of a situation like with European/Middle Eastern countries.

As a side thing, i don't think race/religion stuff like that are really consequential in the broader sense, i think they're a red herring to what the real thing is and the real thing is money.  I'm talking broadly here, race/religion, this is just shit that is pumped to the populus because it's an easy topic with which to get them onside with, i don't think the powers that be are really motivated by race or religion.  Like all the muslim world think America and/or Americans hate muslims, or the American government is waging some sort of fantastical holy war against Islam, this is just bullshit that keeps everybody in their little rat tunnels facing the right direction, the American government would blow an Arab dick dry if they thought it'd spunk out dollars (and do in the case of Saudi Arabia and its a reciprocal relationship too).  

I'm not tryna devalue racism or pretend it doesn't exist, i just don't think it's the thing.  It's just a racist population is easier to control.  Or easier to direct anyway.  'they hate our freedoms' and 'they are infidels, the day of reckoning is nigh' is basically the same shit in a different toilet.  History has proved time and time again that governments will make some pretty fuckin' dubious alliances if there's a few quid in it for em.

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50 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

To be more specific, the real thing is power.

I agree that race and other things that should be non-issues are a way of controlling the public's perception and focus. But I'd say immigration for example at least in the practical sense is still a tangible real issue.

I don't think the world or humanity is too complicated though. We like to think that it is and we are but really it and us are just convoluted.

I love this brilliant quote, it seems very fitting; "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss the abyss gazes also into you." - Mark Twain or Nietzsche, unsure.

Pretty sure its Nietschze.

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It's just the immigration is not coming from a good place. It's because we are not good people. We let the military keep rolling way after it was needed. Letting our greed blind us to the facts. 

"the city knows when rocket blows

and everybody still wants to fly

some say man ain't truly happy

Til a man truly dies"

That was Prince. I think he called it. 

 

 

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its all a big cocksuck on every end of the spectrum, whether it's the governments, on both sides, or the refugees themselves, or our middle class reactions to them trying to temper our self interest with phoney humanitarian bollocks, no really fuckin' cares and why should they, everyones out for themselves, always have been.  I'm including myself in that.

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If you are going along with the liberal agenda of the multicultural world then you have to take the immigrants. Because the goal here is to liberate these countries from oppresdive regimes, right? 

I guess the problem not everyone in the country taking immigrants wants to be multicultural and not all immigrants want to eat battered mars bar. 

It's hard to say without complete government transparency. But if you take them at their word you have take in the refugees. 

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18 hours ago, wasted said:

If you are going along with the liberal agenda of the multicultural world then you have to take the immigrants. Because the goal here is to liberate these countries from oppresdive regimes, right? 

I guess the problem not everyone in the country taking immigrants wants to be multicultural and not all immigrants want to eat battered mars bar. 

It's hard to say without complete government transparency. But if you take them at their word you have take in the refugees. 

Help people in the countries they already live then.

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53 minutes ago, Axl owns dexter said:

Help people in the countries they already live then.

I guess you can't because the regime stops it. We are drone bombing, funding rebels on the ground that fuels war. They are trapped between two sides. How can we help them?

Any money you give to the country goes into the family running the joint. Everyone else either joins them or gets thrown off a building. 

I guess the people also worried if they go against the leader then if the US pull out they will be rounded up and killed. 

 

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Quote

If you are going along with the liberal agenda of the multicultural world then you have to take the immigrants. Because the goal here is to liberate these countries from oppresdive regimes, right? 

That excuse is a pretty across the board one, liberals and conservatives like to wank that particular tramp off.

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23 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

That excuse is a pretty across the board one, liberals and conservatives like to wank that particular tramp off.

But if you don't accept that you go down a rabbit hole of conspracy or we are just hypocrites. We know but we'd rather delude ourselves to the point we think we are helping people. That's the excuse we tell ourselves. 

The trick is generally keep the stuff away from the people and they let you do anything. So if you want the wars close the doors. Kind of like Trump who seems to just see it selfishly. But when he does it everyone is like no no we aren't nazis. Not nazis but we are fascists. There's a corporate fascism that's running things. 

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3 hours ago, wasted said:

I guess you can't because the regime stops it. We are drone bombing, funding rebels on the ground that fuels war. They are trapped between two sides. How can we help them?

Any money you give to the country goes into the family running the joint. Everyone else either joins them or gets thrown off a building. 

I guess the people also worried if they go against the leader then if the US pull out they will be rounded up and killed. 

 

Not everyone coming here is from a country actively at war. And then even from the war-torn countries, do they then go back when the war is over to rebuild their country? 

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4 hours ago, Axl owns dexter said:

Not everyone coming here is from a country actively at war. And then even from the war-torn countries, do they then go back when the war is over to rebuild their country? 

Depends what you mean by war. There's normally a conflict going. Everywhere. We aren't technically at war with Syria. But we are messing them up. Those countries aren't getting better, it's a rolling disaster. The point is more do we accept that it's our fault? How are we are justifying it? 

I think they do move back and forth between the countries. Kind of why Trumps travel ban didnt work. Once visas are tightly controlled it causes problems. You are right in a way that the trillons spent on the wars, you might as well just give Syria the money. But those dictators just spend it on gold baths for their palaces not helping the people out. But if the CIA can fund ISIS against Assad they could just use that money to build safe zone in Syria. But have to remember they arent really trying to help. 

I think what you are saying is is it necessary, are they just taking advantage of the situation? Yes/No as I understand it. UK as part of the EU gets to borrow money to pay for welfare and salaries. There are perks. So UK is decent place because of this so we have have to bow down to the EU. And No, there are a lot of people who lost everything in the conflict or need asylum etc. which is our fault. We want control in that region. 

But I have no problem if you declare war to then shut your borders to them. But don't pretend to be trying to help, then leave them to die of starvation or slaughter. Transparency would really help. But good luck with that. 

So I would look at the cause of immigration. But I understand the rising tensions but I think they are misplaced. They generally aren't bad people. The media is really selling us this terrorist stuff. There isnt much to it and it's difficult to stop the real bad guys anyway. 

But I have no problem with just not wanting to deal with that. Like be like the Armish or collectivists. I don't see it as morally wrong. Whereas I see the 4 million muslims our governments have killed as immoral. I feel like because we have done that we probably should help out if we can. But we aren't nazis if we don't. We might be a little more fascist than we already are but it's not immoral. 

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8 hours ago, wasted said:

But if you don't accept that you go down a rabbit hole of conspracy or we are just hypocrites. We know but we'd rather delude ourselves to the point we think we are helping people. That's the excuse we tell ourselves. 

The trick is generally keep the stuff away from the people and they let you do anything. So if you want the wars close the doors. Kind of like Trump who seems to just see it selfishly. But when he does it everyone is like no no we aren't nazis. Not nazis but we are fascists. There's a corporate fascism that's running things. 

I would respect our governments more if they admitted to the Kurtzian nature of what they are doing.

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9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I would respect our governments more if they admitted to the Kurtzian nature of what they are doing.

Apocalypse Now stylee. I think it's more of an in and out thing. I doubt anyone of them wants to hang out in Syria. The money is to go to Epstein island or joining these weird sex clubs in NYC. They need hard cash to bribe everyone. Pay lawyers, how much does Margo de layos place cost? 3 wives. They need cash. Maybe Trump wants to build golf courses in Syria. Trump Hotel & Casino, Mosul. 

Look at these two rogues

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584309/Bill-Clinton-identified-lawsuit-against-former-friend-pedophile-Jeffrey-Epstein-regular-orgies-Caribbean-compound-former-president-visited-multiple-times.html

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27 minutes ago, wasted said:

Apocalypse Now stylee. I think it's more of an in and out thing. I doubt anyone of them wants to hang out in Syria. The money is to go to Epstein island or joining these weird sex clubs in NYC. They need hard cash to bribe everyone. Pay lawyers, how much does Margo de layos place cost? 3 wives. They need cash. Maybe Trump wants to build golf courses in Syria. Trump Hotel & Casino, Mosul. 

Look at these two rogues

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584309/Bill-Clinton-identified-lawsuit-against-former-friend-pedophile-Jeffrey-Epstein-regular-orgies-Caribbean-compound-former-president-visited-multiple-times.html

Bright lights, big city, gone to Okie Bills head :lol:  The best you can work for is a good position on the chessboard I suppose!  Lets face it if you could take pussy and hang it off a tree Bill would sit in its shade staring up at it from dusk til dawn, it's almost unfair having a go at Bill for anything sexual, that shit just hypnotizes him.

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21 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Bright lights, big city, gone to Okie Bills head :lol:  The best you can work for is a good position on the chessboard I suppose!  Lets face it if you could take pussy and hang it off a tree Bill would sit in its shade staring up at it from dusk til dawn, it's almost unfair having a go at Bill for anything sexual, that shit just hypnotizes him.

Point is we are asking these people to take a moral stance on immigration. They just want to make bank. 

If I ever go to some weird sex party on a carribean island and when I go in Hillary is in the buff I'm on the first jet ski outta compton. Hiv or not I've got standards. 

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18 minutes ago, wasted said:

Point is we are asking these people to take a moral stance on immigration. They just want to make bank. 

If I ever go to some weird sex party on a carribean island and when I go in Hillary is in the buff I'm on the first jet ski outta compton. Hiv or not I've got standards. 

Nah, I'd have a crack at it myself :lol:  

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Just now, Oldest Goat said:

Well you did suggest spit-roasting the other android so I'm not surprised tbh :lol:

It was that bare cancer patient scalp that did it, sort of like how they say men are enamoured by cleavage cuz it reminds em in their caveman subconcious of a birds arse...sort of looked like a single cheek :lol: 

1 minute ago, wasted said:

I think my standards have been lowered sufficiently. I now have empathy for Bill. 

Well you should have cuz Williams a sensitive soul...we all know it doesn't take much to get him off :lol:

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