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Are we too hard on Guns?


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45 minutes ago, EricA said:

I don't think "we" are too hard on Guns, but "we" are running in circles, i've never been on an other band forum where there was a need for such a question or a thread like this...

Here is a Perfect sum up of complaints:

No new album or new music

No Izzy Stradlin

No Steven Adler

No real Appetite anniversary

Stale setlist, stale performances

Zero interviews or interaction between members

Nostalgia + Cashgrab = $$$

Bad singing with no rasp/Mickey voice

Frank's drumming

Melissa's uselessness 

...but REALLY in every single show thread:facepalm: that's boring and that's why it looks like we are too hard on Guns!

Some of these things above are facts, some are up to everybodys own opinion/taste !

We all know the facts, so why discussing them over and over and over again?

Since I want to be constructive, I'm asking you: what kind of posts would you like to read on concert threads? Or as long as the posts are positive, do you have any problem if they are pretty much all the same/repetitive?

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1 hour ago, bigpoop said:

No not at all. In fact, I'd say it's just the opposite. People make endless excuses for them.

 

It depends on the person I would say.  There are also a lot of people who endlessly look for things to complain about and won't shut up about it in every thread lol

 

 

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26 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Like with anything in life, it's all a matter of perspective. I'm sure there's a silver lining to just about everything -

"Hey! I crashed my car, now I can walk to work every day and stay healthy or ride the bus and socialize with other passengers"

"I'm a millionaire that just filed for bankruptcy. Now I can live frugally and not be indulgent by flying first class or taking monthly vacations in the French Riviera."

You can spin anything to have a positive/negative connotation. Facts are facts though.

 

*3 albums in 30 years.

*zero albums during their creative peak/prime.

*No full reunion of classic lineup.

*Pathetic at best fan service.

*No new releases of any kind (live dvds, demos, box sets, documentaries, etc.)

*No interviews aside from a half hearted attempt over a year ago

*Poor at best management

*history of not delivering on promises

 

Some can overlook all this and celebrate the reunion of Axl, Slash and Duff. I congratulate those people on their optimism. It certainly is better to count your blessings.

That being said, I don't think it's out of line to criticize the band given what I just listed above. This band does not function like a normal band...at all. The trend for the last 10-20 years among bands is MORE fan service. GnR continues to go in the opposite direction.

I have no issues with Axl's voice or singing - he was always hit/miss live and he's working his ass off onstage as far as I can tell. His professionalism is way up. These are all encouraging signs. 

However, you can't blame people for being cynical given Axl and co's track record. It is what it is.

Just because Foo Fighters do this or Red Hot Chili Peppers do that, it doesn't mean people should expect it of GN'R. All bands are different.

Some bands burn bright for a short period of time and that's it, over (Sex Pistols) Others churn out album after album of varying quality and often become boring. Some take an age between albums (My Bloody Valentine, for example) and some stop releasing new material altogether and just tour (The Sisters Of Mercy, no studio album since 1990) Very few, really, put out truly high quality work over a long period of time, obviously there are a few exceptions.

You mentioned peak/prime period, GN'R's peak period was Appetite through Illusions I & II, they peaked straight away, too early in a way, I accept that and I'm grateful for the timeless music they produced during that period. They've given me more enjoyment from those three records than most bands who have put out 10, 15 albums. Do we really expect GN'R to have knocked out album after album of the quality of Appetite? It just doesn't really happen that often, that's why it's so special and I think it's partly that which has held Axl back as it's so hard to match what they did early on. Or maybe, as has been said, that was all he had in him?

In terms of band line-ups, I'd wager more bands than not go through changes in personnel at some point in their careers, so again it doesn't really bother me. GN'R self destructed, as again, a lot of bands do. Would I like to see the classic line-up back together? Of course, but if that's not possible, so be it. I can't affect it so there's no point me bitching about it.

I'd love a new album, obviously and I hope it happens. Again though, if it doesn't, is it really going to affect my life negatively in any way? No, of course not. I certainly don't think I have any right to demand it.

As you say, it's all a matter of perspective.

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7 hours ago, Fourteenbeers said:

Since I want to be constructive, I'm asking you: what kind of posts would you like to read on concert threads? Or as long as the posts are positive, do you have any problem if they are pretty much all the same/repetitive?

You get my words wrong

8 hours ago, EricA said:

I don't think "we" are too hard on Guns,....

 

Some of these things above are facts, some are up to everybodys own opinion/taste !

We all know the facts, so why discussing them over and over and over again?

I never said there should be only positiv posts, but discussing FACTS is useless, personal opinions/experiences, positiv and negative, are welcome...

Edited by EricA
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Absolutely not. Aside from performances being generally well received,  since 1993 they have been the most incompetent band of all time in terms of productivity. They've mislead fans time and time again, often times seemingly intentionally so. They have also excelled at blowing every opportunity to do something cool with specific dates, milestones or events. What band has had more missed opportunities than GnR? They fully deserve the criticism they get. 

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1 hour ago, EricA said:

You get my words wrong

I never said there should be only positiv posts, but discussing FACTS is useless, personal opinions/experiences, positiv and negative, are welcome...

OK, I understand. I myself have no problem reading both positive/negative posts either. But I have to admit, sometimes the line between a fact and an opinion can be a bit blurry: let's say two people debate whether Axl sounds good during certain song. One says he does and the other says that  he doesn't . Is it a matter of a fact or an opinion?  But,  I agree with you that going around in circles and repeating same things over and over again isn't useful.

One other hand, if we are talking about this in general level; being repetitive in places like these can be a natural human trait - it just happens.  Some people do it more, some do it less. 

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8 minutes ago, Fourteenbeers said:

 let's say two people debate whether Axl sounds good during certain song. One says he does and the other says that  he doesn't . Is it a matter of a fact or an opinion? 

Agree, the performance of every single bandmember is a fact and it's aswell  a matter of personal taste, that's not what bothers me...

But for an example, the whining about the setlist in every showthread, is that boring...and after nearly 1 1/2 year touring with more ore less the same setlist...i think everybody should know by now it's a FACT that they don't chance it !

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2 minutes ago, EricA said:

Agree, the performance of every single bandmember is a fact and it's aswell  a matter of personal taste, that's not what bothers me...

But for an example, the whining about the setlist in every showthread, is that boring...and after nearly 1 1/2 year touring with more ore less the same setlist...i think everybody should know by now it's a FACT that they don't chance it !

Why Blackhole Sun is a regular in the set list? Why that song has priority over My Michelle, Out Ta Get Me or Used To Love Her?  No cover (other than KNOHD and LALD) should be a priority over any GN'R song

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9 minutes ago, Padme said:

Why Blackhole Sun is a regular in the set list? Why that song has priority over My Michelle, Out Ta Get Me or Used To Love Her?  No cover (other than KNOHD and LALD) should be a priority over any GN'R song

Good fn' question. I was shocked to see they actually still played it... :facepalm:

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Just now, AncientEvil80 said:

Good fn' question. I was shocked to see they actually still played it... :facepalm:

It was a nice tribute to someone they were obviously fond of but I feel it should be dropped now the Euro leg is over. Keeping it as a set staple like KOHD doesn't feel right somehow because it passes from being a tribute to something else entirely. Maybe they don't view it that way though, we'll find out on the 27th I guess.

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Oh fine...NOW we are coplaining about the setlist again...how exciting:max:! Maybe they should change BHS for a Linkin Park cover, so that everybody has something new to whine about:facepalm:!

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1 minute ago, EricA said:

Oh fine...NOW we are coplaining about the setlist again...how exciting:max:! Maybe they change BHS for a Linkin Park cover, so that everybody has something new to whine about:facepalm:!

Not a complaint more an opinion. They can and will play what they want, I'd love a LP cover for a few shows. Just not keen on either becoming staples of the set but I do realise it doesn't affect me at all given I'm not likely to be in attendance at any of the shows.

At the end of the day this is a discussion forum, we encourage civility but if everyone just parroted the same opinion it would get boring real fast.

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3 minutes ago, EricA said:

Oh fine...NOW we are coplaining about the setlist again...how exciting:max:! Maybe they should change BHS for a Linkin Park cover, so that everybody has something new to whine about:facepalm:!

That is not an answer. I think it is pretty obvious why people complain about the set list. Give us a good reason why BHS is being played every show. While better known and popular GN'R are being swap around. 

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19 minutes ago, Padme said:

That is not an answer. I think it is pretty obvious why people complain about the set list. Give us a good reason why BHS is being played every show. While better known and popular GN'R are being swap around. 

I can't answer this question, you know why...i'm not a bandmember!

24 minutes ago, alfierose said:

At the end of the day this is a discussion forum, we encourage civility but if everyone just parroted the same opinion it would get boring real fast.

I've never asked for having all the same opinion, i love this forum because of its discussions !

But as i wrote, there is a difference between facts and personal opinions, and as i also wrote, for some facts we are running in circles !

But at the end of the day, everything is fine for me, with Guns and with our forum?

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21 hours ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

I'm tired of this. Did Axl really 'single-handedly' ruin GNR when only the opinions of Slash and Duff have been blasted through the media? Is one side of a story really enough to craft a complete conclusion of what happened?

A band consists of multiple people, and to that extent, the collapse of Guns N' Roses falls on more than just Axl. Slash and Duff were literally fucked up from all the drugs they were taking, and they too were just as responsible for the band as Axl was. Nothing is as clear cut as a lot of people try to make it. If you're talking about Chinese Democracy, then it is a subjective thing. Many people like it, many people don't. Regardless, it is still a part of GNR history, and has been validated in part by Slash's and Duff's performances of some of the songs.

I'm not talking about the collapse of GNR.  I'm talking about dragging the GNR name through the mud for years and years, by trying to pass of a bunch of hired hands as the real deal.  If he had ANY integrity, he wouldn't gone solo, end of discussion.  

What he's doing today is just a continuation of the debacle of the last 15 or so years.  He just added Slash and Duff to his solo band, because he was getting nowhere and members were starting to leave one after the other.  This is NOT a reunion, but it SHOULD have been.

For the record, I like Chinese Democracy.  I think it's a flawed masterpiece.  But it is what it is, an Axl Rose solo album.  Nothing more, nothing less.

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1 hour ago, Padme said:

Why Blackhole Sun is a regular in the set list? Why that song has priority over My Michelle, Out Ta Get Me or Used To Love Her?  No cover (other than KNOHD and LALD) should be a priority over any GN'R song

 

59 minutes ago, Padme said:

That is not an answer. I think it is pretty obvious why people complain about the set list. Give us a good reason why BHS is being played every show. While better known and popular GN'R are being swap around. 

Because it's obviously a very personal song to Axl and he feels the need to keep playing it as a tribute to Chris since he died? Maybe it's one of his favourite songs and Chris was one of his favourite artists? Ever thought that?

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2 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

 

Because it's obviously a very personal song to Axl and he feels the need to keep playing it as a tribute to Chris since he died? Maybe it's one of his favourite songs and Chris was one of his favourite artists? Ever thought that?

Isn't it enough for Axl to do it just once to pay a tribute? Since when Cornell was Axl's best friend? When West Arkeen and Shannon Hoon die Axl didn't pay any tribute to them. Those guys were a lot closer to him than Cornell ever was.

I'm not against any tribute. But there is no need to keep playing BHS. 

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8 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

 

Because it's obviously a very personal song to Axl and he feels the need to keep playing it as a tribute to Chris since he died? Maybe it's one of his favourite songs and Chris was one of his favourite artists? Ever thought that?

Also, the last show I went to, Nijmegen, people around me seemed pleasantly surprised at BHS. Outside of us on the forum, people have no idea they do BHS and it gets a good reception.

We have a completely different perspective, because we've known for 6 weeks already they do that, but for 99% of the people there, it's a nice surprise.

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1 hour ago, alfierose said:

It was a nice tribute to someone they were obviously fond of but I feel it should be dropped now the Euro leg is over. Keeping it as a set staple like KOHD doesn't feel right somehow because it passes from being a tribute to something else entirely. Maybe they don't view it that way though, we'll find out on the 27th I guess.

Ok, nice tribute and all. But just do it once.... this is redundant.

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4 minutes ago, Padme said:

Isn't it enough for Axl to do it just once to pay a tribute? Since when Cornell was Axl's best friend? When West Arkeen and Shannon Hoon die Axl didn't pay any tribute to them. Those guys were a lot closer to him than Cornell ever was.

I'm not against any tribute. But there is no need to keep playing BHS. 

You said it. 

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4 minutes ago, Padme said:

Isn't it enough for Axl to do it just once to pay a tribute? Since when Cornell was Axl's best friend? When West Arkeen and Shannon Hoon die Axl didn't pay any tribute to them. Those guys were a lot closer to him than Cornell ever was.

I'm not against any tribute. But there is no need to keep playing BHS. 

I never said Chris was Axl's best friend, I said he was probably one of his favourite artists and that will be the reason he keeps playing it. It's not that hard to read between the lines.

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