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Perception of GnR/Axl between 1993-1997?


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Can anyone who was a fan around 1993-97 share some anecdotes about what the rock press, musicians, or your friends were saying about the band? What was the perception of GnR back then, especially in North America?

Spaghetti Incident was released without much fanfare and undersold by a huge margin. None of the singles charted high. The Estranged video in December '93 was DOA as was SIDHY in the summer of '94. Sympathy for the Devil tanked at the end of '94. Whatever they put out in '94 went nowhere with audiences - it's like people had moved on already.  Was it because Illusions and the band drama had exhausted people? GnR had not left audiences wanting more? Was it more of a case of an under-promoted cover album that had no bearing on the massive amount of Guns fans still dormant and waiting for an original release?

Could GnR have even put out an album that wouldn't have completely tanked back in the mid 90's? The fall from grace around '93 onward seems really sudden - how did they fall out of public favor that fast? Why didn't bands of their stature like Metallica or U2 get that kind of backlash? Those bands weathered the 90's just fine. On the other hand, it appears like the media and industry folk were expecting/hoping GnR would fall on their face with the next record.

MTV WASN'T PLAYING THEIR STUFF BY '95/'96?

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(19:29:48) dave : Slash, Do me a favor, Have GNR release a video with all of GNRs vids on it, since god forsaken MTV will never play another GNR video again cuz it ain't grungy enough
REPLY: (19:30:13) SLASH says to dave: No!!

http://www.a-4-d.com/t622-1996-07-30-chat-with-slash

 

There's this telling quote from Bill Gould of Faith No More in '92:

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"We said a lot of shit, and didn't realize how bad it was until we got caught. Axl was real straight with us, but it was an ugly scene. He said: 'It's like I went away and came back home to find you guys fucked my wife.' We were thrown off the tour for five hours, but we apologized. It was like being in the principal's office. He said, 'I only like you guys, Nirvana, Jane's Addiction, and two other bands, and all of you hate me. Why do you hate me?'"

And this from '94: 

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A spokesman for the band's management also dismisses the breakup reports and says that GNR, though officially on hiatus at the moment, is starting pre-production work for its next album. He does confirm that Slash is beginning work on a solo album with Clarke participating. Zutaut says that GNR, or some part thereof, was supposed to start work on a new album this weekend.

But will anyone care when (or if) it is finished?

"When Guns first came out it was fresh and exciting," says Bryan Schock, program director of L.A. hard-rock radio station KNAC-FM. "But now Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Stone Temple Pilots and Pearl Jam are the exciting things. If Guns N' Roses puts together a solid record with an hour's worth of great material, sure, there's gonna be interest. But if they don't, this could be it."

If those sentiments are widespread, it signals a tremendous fall from favor for a band that once seemed on its way to becoming the top attraction in the world.

The reason, many observers feel, is that rock fans have tired of Rose's antics. He started a riot by diving into the crowd after a photographer and then walking off stage during a 1991 St. Louis concert. During a 1992 tour with Metallica, he was booed several times after either launching into some tirade or angrily storming off the stage before the show was over.

And the antipathy has grown as lawsuits have been filed by his former wife Erin Everly and former girlfriend Stephanie Seymour alleging that Rose physically and mentally abused them. Those tales are recounted in the current People magazine cover story.

The image of Rose as a spoiled rock-star crybaby doesn't wash in an age when the new heroes are such earnest if tortured figures as Pearl Jam's Eddie Vedder and the late Kurt Cobain.

"Guns N' Roses alienated enough people that no one cares anymore," says a concert promoter who asked not to be named. "You've got to pay a lot more dues than Axl has before you can do stuff like he does. He ain't Keith Richards."

http://www.a-4-d.com/t2460-1994-07-17-interview-with-tom-zutaut

 

And Marilyn Manson taking a shot at Axl in 1994:

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What catapulted him to his current notoriety? Axl Rose?

MansonI went out to LA to talk to Trent about starting the record and we were backstage at a concert hanging out with Axl Rose. He was telling me about The Spaghetti Incident record and hadn't mentioned anything about Manson. I think it's a case of someone with no respect anymore trying to get some notoriety from the underground crowd. I think it was a shallow thing. It was even more shallow that he didn't back himself up on it. He cried to the press like a pussy. It was a publicity stunt that totally backfired.

GacyIt's one thing to be an asshole or racist, it's another to be a hypocrite. You really like it and then as soon as you're confronted on it, you sit there and cop out because you're afraid of the heat you'll catch. People gave him more shit for Manson than all the stuff he'd said about hooray for tolerance!s and immigrants.

http://Interview-Seconds_Magazine_Interviews_Marilyn_Manson_&_Madonna_Wayne_Gacy

Edited by RONIN
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After 1993 the band completely fell off the earth. It was as if they didn't exist. They were unpopular but it was not as if anyone could muster much energy to express that unpopularity, and there was nothing in the news between 1993 - 1998 except titbits like ''Slash was leaving'' and about four lines about them ''working on a new album''. 

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50 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

After 1993 the band completely fell off the earth. It was as if they didn't exist. They were unpopular but it was not as if anyone could muster much energy to express that unpopularity, and there was nothing in the news between 1993 - 1998 except titbits like ''Slash was leaving'' and about four lines about them ''working on a new album''. 

I always find it amusing how the rock press in '91 refer to Axl as "the voice of a generation" and "the next Jim Morrison" or comparing Guns to the Stones and Pistols - yet that kind of talk begins to die out soon after Use Your Illusion releases. Afterwards, Axl seems to transition into some villainous character in a rock opera. A garish cartoon-like figure to be mocked and scorned by his peers. I wonder if it was Axl's unrepentant douche-baggery or GnR simply existing in the wrong era (the early 90's instead of the late 60's and 70's) which sets them up for such a massive downfall.

Comparing Axl to Morrison or Guns to the Sex Pistols (the antithesis of Illusions era Guns) seems almost absurd now. You'd be laughed out of a room for making an Axl/Morrison comparison prior to 2016 - and yet in 1991, the rock press saw that as a completely legitimate connection to make. There's quite a few press reviews of Illusions which elevate Rose and GnR to this level - so it may not have even been the Illusions which change this perception of Axl in the press but rather his increasing lack of credibility/legitimacy with his peers in the alternative scene. His unlikeability post Illusions also probably contributed significantly to this as well. 

 

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I think part of it was that people thought that Axl was the main culprit in the demise of Guns N' Roses.

I think a major part of it was that the music changed a bit in that time period. I was in college from 94-00. Rap-rock bands and music artists were the in thing back then. Kid Rock, Rage Against the Machine, and  Limp Bizkit were quite popular. Green Day was big as a pop punk band. Godsmack and Korn brought on the nu-metal. Rob Zombie and Nine Inch Nails brought the industrial rock. Hootie and the Blowfish, Dave Matthews Band, and Matchbox 20 were on the lighter side of rock. Pearl Jam carried the alternative rock flag. 

There were definitely a lot of one hit wonders that came out. 

Aside from Metallica, Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, Ozzy, and Van Halen in 95,  there wasn't much room for pure classic hard rock bands. Metallica changed a bit to fit in. I think the only new band that had a chance to carry that classic hard rock was Buckcherry. They sounded like they were going to carry the torch after GNR at the time.

I wouldn't say that U2 dominated at this time period since the Popmart tour was ok, but didn't do as well as previous tours. U2 kinda lost it as well during this time period.  U2 came back in the 2000s, especially with a Beautiful Day. 

Hip hop and techno definitely dominated in the late 90s. There was just a changing of the guard with genres.  I think it was just inevitable for GNR not to be as popular during this period.  

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From 92 onwards it was totally uncool to listen to GnR. Grunge had taken over. GnR were an 80's band in peoples minds. The biggest mistake they made was wasting the period of 87-91 without putting out a new album. The only reason they lasted until 92-93 was because they had evolved since AFD. Had they put out another AFD in '91 they wouldn't even be able to fill an arena today! The other reason was the UYI tour dragged on for way too long. They knew they were no longer relevant so they did their best to ring every last $$$ out of fans and promote UYI. I believe anything they released in the mid 90's would've completely tanked.

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2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

After 1993 the band completely fell off the earth. It was as if they didn't exist. They were unpopular but it was not as if anyone could muster much energy to express that unpopularity, and there was nothing in the news between 1993 - 1998 except titbits like ''Slash was leaving'' and about four lines about them ''working on a new album''. 

exactly

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1 hour ago, RONIN said:

I always find it amusing how the rock press in '91 refer to Axl as "the voice of a generation" and "the next Jim Morrison" or comparing Guns to the Stones and Pistols - yet that kind of talk begins to die out soon after Use Your Illusion releases. Afterwards, Axl seems to transition into some villainous character in a rock opera. A garish cartoon-like figure to be mocked and scorned by his peers. I wonder if it was Axl's unrepentant douche-baggery or GnR simply existing in the wrong era (the early 90's instead of the late 60's and 70's) which sets them up for such a massive downfall.

Comparing Axl to Morrison or Guns to the Sex Pistols (the antithesis of Illusions era Guns) seems almost absurd now. You'd be laughed out of a room for making an Axl/Morrison comparison prior to 2016 - and yet in 1991, the rock press saw that as a completely legitimate connection to make. There's quite a few press reviews of Illusions which elevate Rose and GnR to this level - so it may not have even been the Illusions which change this perception of Axl in the press but rather his increasing lack of credibility/legitimacy with his peers in the alternative scene. His unlikeability post Illusions also probably contributed significantly to this as well. 

 

the video for november rain (and all the bullshit that came with it and that it encapsulated/simbolized etc) had 2 big effects

it attracted millions to GNR, specially girls

it turned GNR into a joke amongst the `rocker` crowd

 

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I never understood the belief that TSI? undersold - it outsold "In Utero" in the debut week for each (and they were released around the same time). Not to mention, it's a hastily thrown together collection of covers with no original music. That narrative should've been killed immediately. 

That being said, the answer is that they fell out of people's collective thoughts. Before/after UYI was released there was a ton of buzz around GnR, but the controversy, change in style, and under-performance of those records (critically) had GnR fall out of fashion pretty quickly. One criticism I would have of Axl is that he should've spent more time writing songs and less time planning high-budgeted parties on the tour. He was in touch with musical trends during that time and should've leveraged it to make an album (relatively) quickly after the tour ended. 

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1 hour ago, bc rich said:

From 92 onwards it was totally uncool to listen to GnR. Grunge had taken over. GnR were an 80's band in peoples minds. The biggest mistake they made was wasting the period of 87-91 without putting out a new album. The only reason they lasted until 92-93 was because they had evolved since AFD. Had they put out another AFD in '91 they wouldn't even be able to fill an arena today! The other reason was the UYI tour dragged on for way too long. They knew they were no longer relevant so they did their best to ring every last $$$ out of fans and promote UYI. I believe anything they released in the mid 90's would've completely tanked.

thats pure nonsense

GNR becae uncool because of the direction it took (or should i say Axl drove it to) after illusions

the bullshit videos, the pompous crap, the circus onstage

GNR was very cool while izzy was onboard (and the only single was you could be mine)

then came the 3 stupid zillion dollars videos, the circus tour, etc etc etc

suddenly the coolest (and `most dangerous`) rock band in the planet had became a bloated, boring, predictable and sad parody of itself

but dont fool yourself

if GNR had released ANYTHING in 1994, 1995 or 1996 it would still SELL ZILLIONS and probably it would outsell ALL the grunge bands TOGETHER

 

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You could be mine was released 3 in May/June '91. This is before Smells like Teen Spirit blows away all the 80's rock bands. Where are Motley Crue after 1989's Dr Feelgood? Where's poison? Warrant etc.? Grunge killed all these bands. I really believe that the reason GnR are still so popular today is because they evolved. It's the songs like NR catapulted them to superstardom, same as SCOM did for AFD and patience Lies. Only for the musical growth they would've been forgotten. Too much time had passed between 87-91! If it hadn't been for the videos the UYI albums wouldn't have sold nearly as well as they did.

I take your point that the bloated production of the tour and the dramas etc. didn't help. But, the change in the musical landscape and the change in the social phychie that was ushered in by grunge was the main factor in their fall from grace.  

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^ Following up your point re: a changing landscape - here are some quotes from FNM around that time. Just for context, FNM was tight with Metallica and other metal/alternative acts of the era.

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"It's a total spectacle, a sick circus...We're not even involved. We're just watching it. Guns 'N' Roses are the circus... it's amazing... it's just a lot of money and way too much time to spend it in." - Mike Patton 1992

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As for GnR, Axl and Slash were both vocal about their love for Mike Patton's 1989 debut record with FNM, The Real Thing. Something that FNM's record company were quick in utilising to boost album sales and huge billboard posters were pasted onto walls all over Europe featuring the grammatically inaccurate slogan 'Slash says: Faith No More is fucking brilliant...'  Unfortunately the band themselves did not share their record company's enthusiasm and spoke about the poster campaign Rolling Stone in 1990. 

"It's like, 'Can Axl loan me twenty bucks?' I mean, it's cool that those people gave quotes to help us out, but it doesn't change your life." - Mike Bordin 1990

"They made up these posters in Europe. It was so embarrassing, man." - Bill Gould 1990

"That's the worst. When you drive into town and see that poster and you're in your fucked-up van, you just want to get out and rip it down." - Mike Patton 1990

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"[Axl's going bald] He is, he really is! They were playing one night and Duff walks up to Axl and pats him on the head like a loving comrade-type thing and Axl Rose immediately brings the show to a halt, this is in front of 80,000 people, and be screams, 'Don't you ever touch my head again, motherfucker!' Duff just walked away, wounded. We found out later that it was cos he's going bald and he's worried that, if you touch his hair, it will fall out. Every follicle counts. He came up to me the other night and said, 'Hey, man, your song really helped me through some really heavy shit in my life'. I said, 'Really? What song is that?' He said, 'Midlife Crisis'. 'What kind of shit?' l asked, He looked at the ground for about an hour then shook his head and said, 'Mmm, just a lot of shit, man'. I tell you, I was biting my lip so hard trying not to lose it. - Mike Patton 1992

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"I hate rock music. I've always hated it. Like Led Zeppelin and stuff like that. I mean, my dad used to listen to that shit. It's the least interesting thing in the world, the excess and all that stuff, it's so boring. The world has gone through its period of exploration in that area. A stadium gig is fun to do once in a while, but that Guns N' Roses thing really got me down because it's as rock as it gets. It's the mentality I don't understand. I think it's disgusting. It's not natural, it's all role-playing. complete bullshit and I hate it when our band reflects things like that." - Bill Gould 1993

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"When is this interview going to be printed. You see, I have to watch what I say...but hey, fuck that, just print this: I hate the whole circus thing, we all hate it. But at the moment we don't have the power to do what we want to do, so we still have to eat a little bit of shit. (Seems were back to the catering lady again) We almost have the power to control what we do, but not quite, so we're just gritting our teeth and getting through it best we can. Every band in the world might think they want to open for Guns N'Roses, but lemme tell you, it's been a real ugly personal experience, having to deal with all the shit that surrounds this fuckin circus. I've always hated that aspect of rock music and I've never wanted to be part of it, so to find myself being associated with a tour this big kinda sucks." - Bill Gould 1992

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"I'm getting more and more confused about who's who in Guns N'Roses, and it's blowing my mind. There's Dizzy and Iggy and Lizzy and Tizzy and Gilby and Giddy... Shit man, onstage now there's a horn section, two chick back-up singers, two keyboard players, an airline pilot, a basketball coach, a coupla car mechanics..." - Roddy Bottum 1992

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"We're not the kind of band that's made for this kind of stadium show. It's just not what Faith No More is about. It may be good from a business point of view because our record has just come out, and what better way to promote it than to get on a big tour like this? But if we had our way we wouldn't be doing this; I'd rather do ten nights at the Newcastle Mayfair than one at Gateshead Stadium. I mean, it's cool to be out there in front of a lot of people, but man, the sound is shit, the place is too big, the crowd is a fuckin' mile away... It just lends itself to more of a cabaret act, the kind of band who want to indulge in all that theatrical bullshit, with costume changes every other song. I mean, we do change our clothes too, but usually only once a month." - Bill Gould 1992

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"Halfway through the tour, we realised it wasn't the kind of scene we wanted to be involved in. We'd been talking shit in the press about Axl, and he got wind of it. So one night, we had to stick around and have a meeting with him after the concert. He was really upset and talked to us for an hour. At the end of it, one of his people came into Axl's trailer and said, 'Axl, come on, I want to show you something'. So Axl gets up, all serious, and says to us, 'Come on' - we'd just been raked over the coals and felt obliged to play along - so we all had to follow him. We went into this other trailer. It was filled with guys but dead silent, no one's saying a thing. Everyone was looking at something going on in the back. We're following Axl like idiots, but as we all get closer to the back we see what everyone's looking at - lying on a bench are these two really out-of-it women, stark naked. One was eating the other out, but it was anything but sexy. The girl who was being eaten out... she looked like she was dead - just lying there. It was so creepy. And absolutely silent. All you could hear was the whirr of the video camera. Axl walked right up in front and we freaked out. Mike (Patton) started yelling, 'Oh my God! I cannot believe you people would do this!'. Everyone just shushed us, and we all just left immediately." - Roddy Bottum 1993

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"He read all the bad press we said about him and asked us about it! We actually talked to him for a while, and y'know what? He was pretty cool! One day we came to the concert, and Axl was there waiting for us. Like, 'What's the deal?'. And we just said we tried to stir up as much trouble as we could. We told him we felt like that was our job, and he just laughed. He just sat and explained his position to us a little bit. He's an easy guy to take pot-shots at, and we definitely went for the easy thing. "He was cool about it. He likes to see the system shook up as much as anyone, but he's in an awkward position. We left the tour friendly. It was like making friends with the Devil. I thought all hell was gonna come down, and he let us off with, 'Aw, right, you f"kin' idiots'. That was a cool response. Most people in his position would have been real uptight dicks. I can think of 100 other bands we've done a lot less to that have freaked out 10 times as bad!" - Bill Gould 1992

http://www.faithnomorefollowers.com/2017/07/the-rock-n-roll-circus-of-1992-faith-no.html

Edited by RONIN
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Fan Alert: Guns N' Roses Gearing Up : The long-dormant band plans to go back into the studio next year and possibly tour.
POP EYE
December 10, 1995|Steve Hochman

Guns N' Roses is history.

At least, that was the conventional wisdom a year ago. The L.A. hard-rock band seemed on the verge of splintering, and music-industry pundits wondered whether there was even a place for its metal-rooted music among newer alterna-rockers like Alice in Chains and Nine Inch Nails.

But as the saying goes, history repeats itself.

Guns N' Roses' three principals--singer Axl Rose, guitarist Slash and bassist Duff McKagan--are separately writing new songs for the group with plans to convene in the studio in January. A new album could be out in the fall, with a world tour to follow.

But is the world waiting with bated breath?

"They still have a huge fan base and their old material is still requested a lot," says Carey Curlop, program director of L.A. rock station KLOS-FM, which last spring changed its format to emphasize newer acts. "They fit quite nicely with Alice in Chains and Soundgarden."

Even more enthusiastic are concert promoters, who could use a big attraction to anchor a year that is full of uncertainties. A much-discussed reunion tour of Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band seems unlikely before 1997, U2 hasn't yet committed to a proposed tour and perennial box-office leader the Grateful Dead is a question mark after the death of Jerry Garcia.

"Guns N' Roses touring in 1996 is a very exciting proposition," says Brian Murphy, president of Southern California's Avalon Attractions. "I really believe that Guns has the instant ability to turn around and be a huge touring act despite the changes in music."

But GNR manager Doug Goldstein offers a note of caution.

"There are no tour plans set," he says. "And at this point I'm not even sure they'll tour America. It depends on how the record is received here. Though given what I've heard, we'll be touring America."

One possibility, Goldstein says, is that the band will start with a select number of intimate theater shows, as it did in 1991, and then decide whether to go on with larger venues.

Pollstar magazine editor-in-chief Gary Bongiovanni says that's wise. "If the album is right, the whole thing could explode for them again," he says. "But in the concert scene, if you stay out for three years or more, there's always a question about how much demand there is, and you don't know until you put tickets on sale."

Of course, with Guns N' Roses' history of delays and postponements--a Rose throat ailment caused a three-week disruption of its last tour in 1992, at a reported cost of $750,000 a week--it's hard to say anything about plans with certainty. But Goldstein notes that the band seems to be in a frame of mind to reestablish its preeminence.

"The entire band is clean and in great shape," he says of past reports of substance abuse problems. "They all look better than since I've worked with them and I'm going, 'Come on guys, it's a great time to go and show the world.' "

http://www.a-4-d.com/t2453-1995-12-10-interview-with-doug-goldstein-in-los-angeles-times

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People wanted original material not a covers album thats why spaghetti wasnt generally a big album. I remember Since I Dont Have You getting alot of radio play here in Australia though.

Axl disappeared after that album. The band disbanded or were left in limbo recording by themselves while axl was off in his own world. 

Axl had taken alot of shit from other bands, the media and was struggling with his own bipolar mental breakdowns. It was probably best he had a break from the limelight at the time or who knows what might of happened to the guy.

Im sure if they had dropped a album of original material between 94-97 it would of been massive. There was still a big demand for rock music at the time. They could of also toured off the back of it.

During those years Izzy had come back to write and record, slash, duff and sorum recorded alot or material and even zak wilde when he joined for a few weeks recorded stuff with slash. I imagine that stuff would be all rocking but Axl had lost his motivation to even record one vocal during this period.

 

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my recollections are by 94 it was over. By 94 a mix of bands were making it big mainly either indie acts such as evermore, stp, hole, rage against the machine, presidents of the united states and pantera.even nirvana were on there way out and pearl jam was still flying the grunge flag. This carried into 95 until 96 when Britpop completely exploded.

nu metal started from 97 to 2000. If guns had released an album by 96 I don't know if any fan would have cared. Even Metallica were losing their hardcore fans when load and reload were being released between 94 to 96.  the golden years of bands such as fnm, guns, Metallica even red hot chili peppers was between 91 to 93.

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You guys are so focused on if the music or artistic vision went to crap or whatever. None of that mattered. The music was good, the talent, none of that wavered.

what changed is the stuff with Axl’s abuse history on women, plus the chaotic mess that left people soured during the UYI tour (late starts, riots) all this was mentioned by OP. 

People moved away from gnr Bc of these things. It wasn’t Bc they weren’t punk enough or grunge enough. Fans didn’t give a shit. It just became hard to justify being a fan of the band with a guy like Axl

 However, by the late 90’s there just wasn’t a band that replaced gnr. There was grunge, punk, pop...a bunch of genres at the time that had their own place in pop culture but gnr at their height really was so huge that it wasn’t about a genre or type of music, they were truly GNFNR. 

I bring this up Bc there seems to be this misconception that “oh they weren’t that good” or whatever Bc they flamed out. It’s like when you’re trying to get someone’s attention that’s ignoring you and you say stuff that’s clearly untrue for attention and in this case to piggy back off their name. 

Anyways you get back to late 90’s early 00’s and gnr is this mythical monster. Big bands: The Stones, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Queen, Guns N Roses.  This is when people started putting them amongst these larger than life bands again. Nobody replaced them when they disappeared. You just ended up with genres people liked. Gnr were it, that was the last time a band could rise to those heights. No band has even come close to filling the gap they left. 

As far as Axl goes, I see where some of these people are coming from that he’s a poser or whatever. But as those grunge bands and punk bands had their time in the light it started to become clear that a lot of these guys weren’t the image they project in their music. Axl hate him or love him projected an image of down right insanity...but you can’t help but feel there is authenticity there. Like Duff said, nobody was more punk than Axl, he was this great mixture of everything and nobody could do it while being true to themselves like he could. Axl was cool in that he wrote music about love, about sex, about anger, about betrayal, about fun, about partying, about depression. He wasn’t afraid to show he was human. So many of the bands that came after gnr were stuck on their genre and it wasn’t cool to talk about anything other than depression or hate. I think that’s where the authenticity was lost in some of these grunge and punk bands. People do love,people do have fun, life is exciting and life is painful too. That’s why Guns N Roses could exist on their own merits..they didn’t have to be labeled as a part of a group of bands in a genre...they held their own 

Now Axl’s problem was how he views the world. He feels people should cater to his problems, but he’s so blind to everyone else’s problems that it makes him a Whiney asshole. 

At the end of the day all of this upsets me Bc of the 02VMA’s...never has their been a bigger opportunity to take back the world than that event. People were ready for Axl again. It just wasn’t the same...so they went to Eminem Bc there was some authenticity there haha

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As far as the FNM quotes go...these guys are making comments about how everything they do is an act and rock is lame and this and that. But when it comes time to bringing it to the table Axl is the one that brings them in..he’s the one that confronts them, and then all of a sudden they are just joking or didn’t mean anything by it...and yet they still feel like they are this authentic authority and gnr is this fake circus. 

I guess it just never crossed their mind that they were dealing with the realist most psychotic person in the world. 

I just have a hard time figuring out which of their quotes they are just “stirring the pot” and which of em they were genuinely upset. It seems to me that they were tough in front of reporters but couldn’t face the barrel of the shotgun when it came time for a face to face. 

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Reading quotes from Mike Patton over the years gives me headaches. 

In fact that goes for the whole band   FNM. 

They have always come across as butthurt cry babies who were happy to use the GNR vehicle for their own purposes and yet everytime someone stuck a tape recorder in their face they'd whinge. I find that highly hypocritical and I see through the whole trying to be cool thing by knocking a lead singer who did more for you than you've done for them so like Patton should probably just be greatful, their music was fucking tedious for the most part and has been long forgotten compared to GNR. 

Right- moving on to the next point 😜

I think trying to apply a little sensibility into how the media viewed them around 93-94 you could lap up all the shitty extreme views that were aired or you could look at it for what it is then and even now, I think regardless of whether the media is writing that band x is the greatest thing since the Beatles or getting slagged off, the truth is always somewhere in between. 

I distinctly remember that period and whilst there was cool be bands hitting the airwaves like STP, and Live, Tool ect that were getting lots more attention, I think it's fair to say that guns were not actually hated or forgotten, but more on ice, people still listened to it, but within that age group (and even now) kids think being cool is staying on the edge of what's new is great, even if it isn't so. I look at new music today and kids are like, this is so fucking awesome and I'm trying to identify with it and yes my age might make that difficult (38) but even back then I couldn't get my head around a the trends that my age thought were good just because it was new. (If that makes sense). 

People go on and about axl and the trilogy of videos being such a negative at the time, but in a way, I look at those videos now and think that they really did cement GNRs place in music TV history, and without them, they'd perhaps be just another band lost in time. 

The renaisance they are enjoying now, wouldn't be possible without those videos, the images of slash, axl the golden years wouldn't be in the memory, so they were helpful in the long run. 

The major problem always goes back to this. 

The lead singer was a megalomaniac, the rest of the band were alcoholic junkies and the thing fell apart, that's on all of them! There's a million reasons why that shit went to well... shit! 

 

Edited by Tadsy
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I got into GnR in mid/late 1993 when I was around 11 years old and the band was still very popular, at least among young kids like me. Axl's diva behaviour and the drama around their live shows hurt the band's reputation, especially because at the time all the so called 'alternative' bands were about being anti-rockstars and he was quite the opposite. And the fact that there was no new material since 1991 made it easy for people to move away from them. Had they released a really great record by 1994/1995, things would have been different, they probably wouldn't have been the biggest band in the world anymore like a few years before, but music will always prevail.

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hmmm, so two conflicting stories about Axls meeting with the band on that tour, Roddy Bottom says Axl was angry and upset with them and Gould says he laughed it off. The shit in the hairdryer and OJ was just Patton fucking with people as well and he didn't actually do it according to Gould, i take anything said by FNM about that tour with a grain of salt.

Edited by Silverburst80
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A 1996 Guns album, especially if it was a "return to form" hard rock album would of done VERY well. Anybody that doesn't believe that, wasn't around during that time. Aerosmith sold Get a Grip like hot cakes, so did Van Halen with Balance, and Metallica with Load. A Mid 90s guns album goes to #1 on the charts, lots of MTV air play, and sells 5-7 million copies. It wouldn't of done as well with the teenagers, no. But music was still in HIGH regard back then, not like today. Plus Kurt Loader alone would of been singing it's praises on MTV. It would of done just fine.

Edited by Iron MikeyJ
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I think it is true that Guns was suddenly viewed as “out-of-step” with the times in 1993-95 as a decadent, bloated rock act in the midst of a stripped down/“earnest” alt/grunge craze. That said- they had amassed enough cred (despite all the controversies) that by 1996- there was still significant interest in what they might be up to...

remember rock DJs pumping up the idea that the band was allegedly reconvening in early 1996 [by which time that first (and best?) Nirvana/PJ/STP grunge wave had calmed down mightily]. Obviously- Slash’s departure was then a huge blow b/c some excitement had actually started to build. That said- by 1999- SPIN was back to repping the idea that “What The World Needs Now is Axl Rose” and writing little blurbs about Tommy/Robin/Josh/etc.

Anyway- I remember it more like they went from the college football team that was in the national championship game every year- to merely one of the Top 25 teams in the country. A stumble from the highest of the highs- but never to complete irrelevance despite Kurt’s (and others’) best efforts. More like- “whatever happened to those guys?”...

Edited by AXL_N_DIZZY
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