Perception of GnR/Axl between 1993-1997?

[Fashionista]

2 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

Agree with the last paragraph above. But i guess they realised how fickel the industry is and needed to release something even bigger. It puts huge pressure on themselves and im sure geffen were applying much pressure as well. Im sure thery were suffering abit of writers block, a musical equivalant of a mid life crisis. The cameraderie in the group probably suffered alot during the illusions tour with the bands extracurricular activities and im sure they all got abit lost and didnt know what steps to make next. Personally they should have taken a 12 month break and should have appeared on mtv in 95 or 96 and did an unplugged set to show people they were still around.

The problem was they, themselves, Axl especially, took the shadow and baggage of both AFD and the Illusions too seriously. It's not about every record surpassing and being even more grand and epic than the last, it's just about making music you and your fans will enjoy. I don't think Axl ever got that - both in the 90s and now - which is why you don't see a new record on the horizon. Instead of just going with his gut and making good music, he wastes time trying to outdo his last work in scope and scale. Ultimately what people loved most about GN'R were groovy rock tunes and that isn't rocket science. 

[Silverburst80]

12 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

the skaters and the hommies hated him 

Who?

[OTHAFA]

The phrase "it's better to burn out than fade away" certainly applies to GNR's dropping off the face of the earth after 1993.

It added to the band's mystique and made the subsequent comebacks a much bigger deal.

[Ratam]

7 minutes ago, OTHAFA said:

The phrase "it's better to burn out than fade away" certainly applies to GNR's dropping off the face of the earth after 1993.

It added to the band's mystique and made the subsequent comebacks a much bigger deal.

Spot on

[BangoSkank]

The '93 - '97 period sounds freakishly like the '03-'06 period, just a pure black void of nothing. 

[ElectricTear]

14 minutes ago, BangoSkank said:

The '93 - '97 period sounds freakishly like the '03-'06 period, just a pure black void of nothing. 

It's a shame they couldn't show up in Rio -04.

[AxlRQ93]

Sorry for necro’ing an old post but this is an interestin discussion

[uzi your illusion]

I remember seeing that sometime around '91 Guns made the press sign something that gave GNR the right to review any interview theat was conducted with the band before it was printed due to a fear of being misquoted.

I've always found it interesting that the bad press campaign seemed to swing into full gear even more so after that contact was given out to the press. If you're from a magazine and want to write about Guns because you know they'll sell units you will probably choose to write the negative slanted article that doesn't involve direct interaction with the band so they don't have to get approval over the final edit.

[SoulMonster]

8 minutes ago, uzi your illusion said:

I remember seeing that sometime around '91 Guns made the press sign something that gave GNR the right to review any interview theat was conducted with the band before it was printed due to a fear of being misquoted.

I've always found it interesting that the bad press campaign seemed to swing into full gear even more so after that contact was given out to the press. If you're from a magazine and want to write about Guns because you know they'll sell units you will probably choose to write the negative slanted article that doesn't involve direct interaction with the band so they don't have to get approval over the final edit.

More about the media contract here: (4) 12. JANUARY-JULY 1991: TOURING MAYHEM (a-4-d.com)

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

I think August/September '92 was really damaging to Guns' rep (at least in North America). The Montreal riot, backed by the Kurt feud at the MTV Awards in such a short period of time seemed to knock them from their perch with casuals, peers, and the media- and having finally accomplished it- no one was going to let them regain it. Not any time soon anyway. People were just exhausted by all the nonsense.

I'd say 93-94 they were still kind of limping on as a "Top Ten Band In The World" type thing (which was a serious demotion from their previous heights) before gradually fading.

There was some buzz around Slash's departure in late '96 obviously, and then a long, curious slog toward "Axl's techno album" beginning in the late 90s.

At the end of the day though, they were never completely forgotten- and certainly NITL numbers bear that out. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by AXL_N_DIZZY

[evilfacelessturtle]

I'm not gonna read all 5 pages but to OP's post:

1. Spaghetti, the Estranged video and Sympathy were all just little bones thrown to the fans to tide them over, nothing more. Snakepit's debut went platinum with little promotion. There was still plenty of interest in Guns, hence the constant interviews Slash was getting asking "When is the next album coming? What's going on?"

2. MTV moving on to grunge to chase trends doesn't mean there was no interest in GNR by the public. Sales have proven that interest in Guns has never waned in the ensuing 30+ years. A legendary band will always have interest, regardless of trends.

3. These quotes show that Axl in particular had fallen out of many peoples' graces, not GNR. Specifically, people who met him personally, which in reality was not even a tiny percentage of their fanbase.

Ultimately, OP didn't make a very coherent point.

[AxlRQ93]

1 minute ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

I'm not gonna read all 5 pages but to OP's post:

1. Spaghetti, the Estranged video and Sympathy were all just little bones thrown to the fans to tide them over, nothing more. Snakepit's debut went platinum with little promotion. There was still plenty of interest in Guns, hence the constant interviews Slash was getting asking "When is the next album coming? What's going on?"

2. MTV moving on to grunge to chase trends doesn't mean there was no interest in GNR by the public. Sales have proven that interest in Guns has never waned in the ensuing 30+ years. A legendary band will always have interest, regardless of trends.

3. These quotes show that Axl in particular had fallen out of many peoples' graces, not GNR. Specifically, people who met him personally, which in reality was not even a tiny percentage of their fanbase.

Ultimately, OP didn't make a very coherent point.

so would you say GNR had fallen from their grace with music fans? 😅

[vloors]

On 11/1/2017 at 11:43 AM, RONIN said:

Can anyone who was a fan around 1993-97 share some anecdotes about what the rock press, musicians, or your friends were saying about the band? What was the perception of GnR back then, especially in North America?

Spaghetti Incident was released without much fanfare and undersold by a huge margin. None of the singles charted high. The Estranged video in December '93 was DOA as was SIDHY in the summer of '94. Sympathy for the Devil tanked at the end of '94. Whatever they put out in '94 went nowhere with audiences - it's like people had moved on already.  Was it because Illusions and the band drama had exhausted people? GnR had not left audiences wanting more? Was it more of a case of an under-promoted cover album that had no bearing on the massive amount of Guns fans still dormant and waiting for an original release?

Could GnR have even put out an album that wouldn't have completely tanked back in the mid 90's? The fall from grace around '93 onward seems really sudden - how did they fall out of public favor that fast? Why didn't bands of their stature like Metallica or U2 get that kind of backlash? Those bands weathered the 90's just fine. On the other hand, it appears like the media and industry folk were expecting/hoping GnR would fall on their face with the next record.

MTV WASN'T PLAYING THEIR STUFF BY '95/'96?

There's this telling quote from Bill Gould of Faith No More in '92:

And this from '94: 

And Marilyn Manson taking a shot at Axl in 1994:

http://Interview-Seconds_Magazine_Interviews_Marilyn_Manson_&_Madonna_Wayne_Gacy

The band releasing a punk covers album was a huge and underwelling disappointment for everyone wanting a followup of new material after UYI.

They can only ride the wave of 1991s UYI for so long before people move on to the next new music being released from other artists/bands.

The lead singer going missing from all public life and recording life from 1994 onwards was the nail in the coffin.

Most people thought the band had broke up and that was it.

[evilfacelessturtle]

2 hours ago, AxlRQ93 said:

so would you say GNR had fallen from their grace with music fans? 😅

 

Oh my love
Can it be?
I'm falling from your grace with me now

[C.H.]

Great thread!! I agree with a lot that was said. But oddly enough I realized that GnR didn’t do a MTV Unplugged EP/show. How did they miss that boat?? It would’ve been perfect for them to do that towards the end of the 90s (97-99) somewhere between Welcome To The Videos & Live Era. Despite Slash and Duff’s departure, if they could’ve just done Unplugged as a one off thing it would’ve tided the fans over a little longer, felt “new” just to see the main 3 on stage playing music again just for one night to tape the performance.
 

Not bill it as a “reunion” but simply a thank you to MTV & the fans, maybe even momentarily bring back Steven or at least Izzy (10 year anniv gig), getting back to basics, stripped down set which they’d done before. But the Live Era album kinda took the place of Unplugged in a way. The MTV Unplugged series is so beloved, much more than a typical live album, at least at the time. Idk but maybe it would have helped take the focus off of the band’s drama, any discord, personal issues and made the wait for ChiDem not really feel as long as it was. The gap between TSI & ChiDem is too long, but I understand why, yet, still too long. 

[Gunner Gilby]

I'd say it was more frustration with Axl from around 95 onwards. In 93 they were still touring, they released The Spaghetti Incident and Duff released Believe In Me. In 94 Gilby released Pawnshop Guitars and GN'R released Sympathy For The Devil (with Gilby sadly replaced by Paul). From late 94/early 95 with everyone except Dizzy either being fired or quitting just leaving Axl with no one to answer to the rot began to set in. 

[megaguns1982]

Axl wearing bike shorts and being a total diva kinda fucked them up, they were an easy target with the grunge crowd. I doubt they would have lasted the late 90s if they’d stuck together.

[mikeman5150]

I have a hit parader magazine from 1996 where it said “rumors continue that the legendary Guns N’ Roses are super close to handing in the tapes for a new album. Slash said good music is good music whether it’s recorded in 1987 or 1997 shouldn’t make a difference”. Then just a few months later, the headline in hit parader was that Slash split, and left GNR. So I think people still wanted them around, they were just absent. Also for what’s its worth, I know at my high school in the yearbook, GNR were still ranked most popular band until 96’ even in 97, they were 3rd, behind Aerosmith and Ozzy. I wasn’t in high school at the time, but both of my siblings were, and I saw it in their books. Also, in 2018, the school my nephew went to had GNR listed as the favorite rock band. That surprised me, but was cool to see 

[axl666]

I guess for younger people it might be difficult to imagine the context at the time. Effectively, if the media decided to stop reporting on a band, and MTV decided to stop playing them, they were gone. There was just a handful of gatekeepers.

I remember walking into a record store and seeing a CD called the Spaghetti Incident and was totally surprised. I'd heard nothing about it. SFTD got a tiny amount of buzz, but mainly in terms of being an afterthought for Interview with a Vampire. Oh My God got even less; I think I remember a paragraph long article about it.

In some ways I think that what kept the intensity of the GNR fandom going was the lack of music in the 90s, the insanity of letting the band go and the attempt to recreate something totally new under the same name. It created a puzzle basically that people interested in GNR could try to solve for years on end. I think you see something similar with George RR Martin and the Song of Ice and Fire. I kind of lost a lot of interest in some ways in GNR after the puzzle was solved and the album was released.

These days there's so few large touring bands that I'd have been surprised if GNR weren't a success. A lot of the factors that reduced their popularity in the early 90s are long gone. Most young people these days won't know who Nirvana are, let alone bands like Pearl Jam. All the media gatekeepers are long gone. GNR actually outlasted them all, which is kind of interesting.

[AxlRQ93]

On 12/25/2023 at 5:07 AM, axl666 said:

I guess for younger people it might be difficult to imagine the context at the time. Effectively, if the media decided to stop reporting on a band, and MTV decided to stop playing them, they were gone. There was just a handful of gatekeepers.

I remember walking into a record store and seeing a CD called the Spaghetti Incident and was totally surprised. I'd heard nothing about it. SFTD got a tiny amount of buzz, but mainly in terms of being an afterthought for Interview with a Vampire. Oh My God got even less; I think I remember a paragraph long article about it.

In some ways I think that what kept the intensity of the GNR fandom going was the lack of music in the 90s, the insanity of letting the band go and the attempt to recreate something totally new under the same name. It created a puzzle basically that people interested in GNR could try to solve for years on end. I think you see something similar with George RR Martin and the Song of Ice and Fire. I kind of lost a lot of interest in some ways in GNR after the puzzle was solved and the album was released.

These days there's so few large touring bands that I'd have been surprised if GNR weren't a success. A lot of the factors that reduced their popularity in the early 90s are long gone. Most young people these days won't know who Nirvana are, let alone bands like Pearl Jam. All the media gatekeepers are long gone. GNR actually outlasted them all, which is kind of interesting.

The video for spaghetti didn’t get much mtv play? What about estranged video?

[axl666]

Estranged was on quite a bit but on headbangers ball mainly from what I remember. So mainly to a niche audience.

November Rain was in constant rotation. It was on all the time, day and night.

Since I don't have you had very little rotation. I was disappointed in this as I thought that axls voice was amazing.

You have to realise that once they were pulled from play they were gone. You couldn't see them again unless you actually bought the vhs, which I did:)

[EvanG]

On 12/25/2023 at 6:33 AM, megaguns1982 said:

I doubt they would have lasted the late 90s if they’d stuck together.

I think they would have if they had managed to keep making great albums.

To the OP's topic, I remember them still being in many teen/pop magazines in the mid 90s even though they hadn't released an original song since 1991, so the popularity was still there.

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, EvanG said:

I think they would have if they had managed to keep making great albums.

agreed. I think some people forget how many hardcore Gn'R fans around the world were dedicated fans. The rise of bands line Nirvana, Soundgarden, etc and a shift back to pop is not something millions of fans around the world was going to stop them from still being interested in Gn'R had they still provided them more to be attached to when it comes to great original material. 

all they had to do to maintain success was to keep it going and there were enough markets to make a lot of money and sustain it but Axl went into a process which demanded him to not be present enough and without Slash and only 1 album that was "late" to arrive, it wasn't enough.

just a lot of words to say that I think it's a misconception to think Gn'R would have been rejected as something too old to be relevant. It could have been like AC/DC only more varied if enough classic band members were on the same page. Maybe just Axl and Slash could have done it with Duff and some other players.

AFD and UYI meant a lot to enough people that it could have been a continual success and I believe the reception to the NITL tours have proved how much people never stopped to care and discover Gn'R, some just forgot about it and moved on cause there was nothing new to latch onto which I think is understandable.

[EvanG]

21 minutes ago, Rovim said:

agreed. I think some people forget how many hardcore Gn'R fans around the world were dedicated fans. The rise of bands line Nirvana, Soundgarden, etc and a shift back to pop is not something millions of fans around the world was going to stop them from still being interested in Gn'R had they still provided them more to be attached to when it comes to great original material. 

The whole argument that those so-called grunge bands being the demise of GnR never added up when you realize that GnR scored some of their commercially biggest hits in 1992, the year grunge peaked, and even in 1993 there was still a lot of demand for GnR. That scene did make GnR look a bit foolish in certain ways because being a rockstar wasn't cool anymore, and they were no longer the most dangerous band in the world, but they were still very popular among many people. And that wouldn't have changed if they released some really great songs in the mid 90s. Heck, even Sympathy For The Devil, released in december of 1994, was a top ten hit in many countries, and it was ''just'' a cover. Imagine if they had released another You Could Be Mine or November Rain.

Edited December 27, 2023 by EvanG

[jacdaniel]

Funnily enough, what killed this band creatively was Axls obsession with public perception and mainstream etc. He wanted to be grunge, industrial, ballads, Nu metal etc, whatever was popular. 

Im pretty sure Slash, Duff and Matt etc were happy to just carry on as a hard rock band and they would have always had a following and integrity to their own fan base.