Ace Nova Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 10 minutes ago, gunsguy said: He killed his gramma in law at the church.... I thin khe was hoping the other 2 were there... 2 Probably. I'm sure the domestic violence situation is what set him off and he basically decided to go kill people he was against/disliked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJean Baby Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Seems like his dishonorable discharge and felony conviction for abusing his wife and baby while in the Air Force did not get entered into the system and he was allowed to purchase 4 guns in the past year. This was just said on NBC news. The military is investigating how this slipped through the cracks. Meanwhile this clerical error ended up with 26 people dead and numerous other wounded. 😣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said: Seems like his dishonorable discharge and felony conviction for abusing his wife and baby while in the Air Force did not get entered into the system and he was allowed to purchase 4 guns in the past year. This was just said on NBC news. The military is investigating how this slipped through the cracks. Meanwhile this clerical error ended up with 26 people dead and numerous other wounded. 😣 US Air Force dropped the ball. Maybe they should get their budget cut? Oh wait, Congress rides their dicks hard so that isn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsguy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said: Seems like his dishonorable discharge and felony conviction for abusing his wife and baby while in the Air Force did not get entered into the system and he was allowed to purchase 4 guns in the past year. This was just said on NBC news. The military is investigating how this slipped through the cracks. Meanwhile this clerical error ended up with 26 people dead and numerous other wounded. 😣 I didnt think he was dishonorably discharged? If so he should not have been able to buy a gun, unless at a gun show... then anyone can.... I thought he was discharged for bad behaviour which allowed him to be able to buy guns legally EDIT< yup he was dishonorably discharged... should NOT have been able to buy any gun... they identified him as a threat and here he is shooting up a church... fuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 The mother-in-law according to the British press. I've heard nothing about being booted out of the air force for something disreputable or atheism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsguy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Just now, DieselDaisy said: The mother-in-law according to the British press. I've heard nothing about being booted out of the air force for something disreputable or atheism. He was dishonorably discharged and the paper work never made it... How many others are happily buying guns when they should not be? From the military no less. Smh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJean Baby Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) They said he spent one year in military prison for DV against his first wife and beating their infant child causing a skull fracture, upon release from prison he was dishonorably discharged. The air force admitted an administrative error that failed to pass his records on to the FBI database. Edited November 7, 2017 by BlueJean Baby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsguy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, BlueJean Baby said: They said he spent one year in military prison for DV against his first wife and beating their infant child causing a skull fracture, upon release from prison he was dishonorably discharged. The air force admitted an administrative error that failed to pass his records on to the FBI database. This is a problem. Most of the time we don't have a clue about someone's state of mind... This guy was identified and the system failed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, gunsguy said: This is a problem. Most of the time we don't have a clue about someone's state of mind... This guy was identified and the system failed. The system failed because some idiot human error didn't disclose anything to the FBI. He filled out the ATF form and everything. I am already seeing conspiracy nuts saying they allowed it to happen. Much easier to be cynical than to realize that our Federal agencies are incompetent. Had everything been done correctly, he wouldn't have been able to purchase the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I think at the very least, people that buy firearms should need to go through a mental health check. Doesn't necessarily need to be a long evaluation but something along the lines of a preliminary questionnaire/test first...if they pass that, then good to go...if they fail it, then they go for a full evaluation with a psychiatrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsguy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Georgy Zhukov said: The system failed because some idiot human error didn't disclose anything to the FBI. He filled out the ATF form and everything. I am already seeing conspiracy nuts saying they allowed it to happen. Much easier to be cynical than to realize that our Federal agencies are incompetent. Had everything been done correctly, he wouldn't have been able to purchase the gun. So the problem even if we find them all is still the problem. They had this guy... human error gets in the way. Sad state of affairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 4 hours ago, gunsguy said: We have a serious mental health issue going on in the US of A. That can be the only explanation behind these things. What else could it be? Most developed nations deal with mental health issues. No other nation has the kind of gun violence the US has. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsguy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, downzy said: Most developed nations deal with mental health issues. No other nation has the kind of gun violence the US has. Do they deal with it differently? Better health services? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsguy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 An interesting read, never heard of the site, can't say it's legit but interesting nontheless. Not the first time I have seen the EU has a bigger mass murder rate per capital than the USA. I only ever hear the USA is the worst but is that fact or media hype? Obama didn't help when he said it even though his statements were false. https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/ There are dozens of charts that show America isn't the worst of developed nation's. That's not to say it isn't a big issue because it is. We have to take shootings as a control. Doing so shows the picture better and is easier to compare nation's, we simply can't compare otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I think people have a bit too much of a go at the authorities here, the ol' 'due to a clerical error 26 people are dead'...its not really like that is it, thats a bit convoluted as finding a culprit goes, I think the whole 'mad cunt with a shooter' is probably a better place to lay blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 18 minutes ago, gunsguy said: An interesting read, never heard of the site, can't say it's legit but interesting nontheless. Not the first time I have seen the EU has a bigger mass murder rate per capital than the USA. I only ever hear the USA is the worst but is that fact or media hype? Obama didn't help when he said it even though his statements were false. https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/ There are dozens of charts that show America isn't the worst of developed nation's. That's not to say it isn't a big issue because it is. We have to take shootings as a control. Doing so shows the picture better and is easier to compare nation's, we simply can't compare otherwise. Those results are heavily skewed and miss the arguments made by those advocating for gun-control. First, it only looks at shootings with 4 or more deaths, does not factor in deaths that occur as a result of another crime (gang-related; robbery, etc), and are limited to 2009 to 2015. The last point is significant, since that's a rather narrow window to evaluate certain nations, especially Norway, which has had one mass shooting during this period (and a fairly terrible incident, at that). The FBI changed broadened its definition of mass shootings in 2013 (the one used in your link is from 2009), and hence the data presented in the link is out of date. Second, this only examines mass shootings, but the arguments around gun-control include non-mass shootings, which America is far and away a nation without equal. I've posted this article before, but it does a good job of underscoring the qualitative and quantitative differences between the US and the rest of the developed world: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts. Again, the common denominator here is access to guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, gunsguy said: Do they deal with it differently? Better health services? Less fucking guns? Edited November 7, 2017 by Dazey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 42 minutes ago, gunsguy said: Do they deal with it differently? Better health services? The United States has some of the best psychiatric and mental health clinics in the world. Issue is access and cost. If neither are a barrier then this isn't a valid explanation for those perpetrating these crimes. As a member of the armed services, the shooter in this incident would have had access to mental treatment that the uninsured would not have had. I might be wrong, but if we review some of the largest mass shootings in the last few years (Aurora, Newtown, San Bernardino, Las Vegas, Sutherland Springs), most shooters had the financial means or access to mental health services. I also don't understand why mental services is the first line of attack on curbing gun-related homicides? That seems like the longer route to solving the problem. Any nation has limited means to diagnosis and treat those who suffer from mental health; the state's ability to curb gun violence is far greater with respect to policy and enforcement with respect to gun ownership and use. Looking at mental health to solve gun violence is in my mind akin to making three left turns to get somewhere when making one right turn gets you there easier and faster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I like that people here talk about the error of preventing this guy from buying guns, admitting that if he was denied guns, as he should have due to being dishonorably discharged and with domestic violence on his records, then this massacre might not have happened. We agree that gun control is needed, and will work, but in this case the system failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 4 hours ago, Kasanova King said: I think at the very least, people that buy firearms should need to go through a mental health check. Doesn't necessarily need to be a long evaluation but something along the lines of a preliminary questionnaire/test first...if they pass that, then good to go...if they fail it, then they go for a full evaluation with a psychiatrist. Because that would only stop raving lunatics who can't even answer a simple questionnaire? It reminds me of that questionnaire visitors to the US had to fill out before entering the country some years ago: "Are you a terrorist?", "Have you ever committed genocide?" and so on. Meaningless. I am not saying such a questionnaire would hurt, but normal gun control (as in comparable countries) seems like a much more efficient and reasonable approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 7 hours ago, soon said: Im not speaking about the incident or motive. But whoa. I just learned that atheists find the idea of extremist atheism to be funny. The empty need to laugh at others for holding different views is so enthralling to you that you will continue to do it - debasing yourselves irreversibly - just to continue in your contrived belly laughs. Before the bodies are even cold. Shame on you all for using this incident towards your petty, selfish ends. But mostly you've shamed yourselves by voluntarily showcasing your desperate arrogance. It was Kasanova King who started talking about atheism in this thread, then the discussion has been on whether the media has been correct in reporting his lack of belief in gods as a motive. No atheist has used this thread to "laugh at others" or to further "their petty, selfish ends". So what the fuck are you on about? Stop with the noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, gunsguy said: An interesting read, never heard of the site, can't say it's legit but interesting nontheless. Not the first time I have seen the EU has a bigger mass murder rate per capital than the USA. I only ever hear the USA is the worst but is that fact or media hype? Obama didn't help when he said it even though his statements were false. https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/ There are dozens of charts that show America isn't the worst of developed nation's. That's not to say it isn't a big issue because it is. We have to take shootings as a control. Doing so shows the picture better and is easier to compare nation's, we simply can't compare otherwise. In the US the NRA and other groups believe that teachers should be allowed to carry guns to schools. Those kind of groups also believe that if you go to a theater or mall you should be allowed to carry a gun just in case something happens. Nobody in the EU belive that kind of ideas are the solution to mass murder. If you enjoy going deer hunting, no problem with that. But do you need to own assault weapons? This is the debate that has been going on the U.S. for a long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 42 minutes ago, Padme said: In the US the NRA and other groups believe that teachers should be allowed to carry guns to schools. Seriously? Well, thats one way of dealing with it! If you're taking the piss and I've taken that seriously then I'm gonna look a right dick here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Seen on Channel 4 report a Republican from Texas on Fox news talking about how the solution is more guns in church. Maybe if all altar boys and Priests brought guns to church this wouldn't happen! You yanks are out of your fucking mind for voting people like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 34 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Seriously? Well, thats one way of dealing with it! If you're taking the piss and I've taken that seriously then I'm gonna look a right dick here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.